A Christian's View of Feminist Movement/MRA/BLM/etc

Xalith

Newbie
Apr 6, 2015
1,518
630
✟19,943.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
I'm not sure if this goes in General Politics or not, but I wanted to put this in a place that is Christians-Only (if you put it anywhere else, you get atheists, agnostics, etc trolling).

Feminism, Black Lives Matter, etc are kinda-sorta "politics", and "ethics" both, but the other thread says "Christian Ethics" and I wasn't sure which forum to put it in, so it's going here.

While musing at work yesterday, I had some thoughts come to me about all of this feminism, black lives matter, etc stuff come to me, and you know what I came down to the conclusion of?

It is my personal belief that no Christian should ever touch either of these movements (or any others like them) with a 50 foot pole. I'm not saying to attack them, or speak out against them, but I don't think that Christians should be supporting them instead, and this is why:

1). All Three Movements are Hypocritical.We know from the Gospels that Christ has a rather low view of hypocrites, and I seem to remember God saying elsewhere in the Bible that He doesn't like hypocrites either. It's right there in the name of the movements, to be honest. The feminist movement claims they are tired of sexism and gender inequality, Black Lives Matter says they hate racism and want it to stop.

So, quick, tell me: If someone claims to hate Thing A, that means they probably want Thing B which is basically the opposite, right? If you're going to claim you hate gender inequality, then that must mean you want gender equality, right? Is that a fair statement? If you're going to claim you hate racism, then that means you want racial equality, right?

My problem is this: Instead of "Black Lives Matter" -- which implies that Black Lives are more important than other lives -- shouldn't be All Lives Matter? Saying "Black Lives Matter" kinda implies that others don't matter as much. What about the Hispanics? The Orientals? Middle-Eastern? If you're going to claim to be against racism, shouldn't you be supporting all races instead of just one? And then, with the Feminist Movement and the MRA, if you're going to claim you want Gender Equality, then why are you choosing a name that focuses on the male or female gender? Shouldn't your movement be named "Anti-Sexism Movement" or something else neutral? But yet it isn't, because...

2). All Three Movements Appear to be Superiority Movements Instead. Please note I said "Appear to be" in the title of this section. The Feminist Movement very much stinks of this. And don't get me wrong, I have the exact same thoughts against MRA (Mens' Rights Activists): They appear to not be looking for gender equality, they seem to instead be looking for feminine superiority, much in the same way that Affirmative Action was seeking superiority for minorities seeking jobs. Eventually we did away with AA and instead introduced Equal Opportunity, which is what it should have been from the start.

People who associate themselves with the Feminist Movement appear to go a bit too far past the Equal line, into wanting extra favors for women over men, and when you do that, you stop being sexist against women, and start being sexist against men (which is how the MRA came to be). I'm just as much against MRA as I am against the Feminist Movement. I believe in Gender Equality, but I refuse to touch either of them because they are simply seeking superiority for their own genders.

Now, for Black Lives Matter... they want Black History Month, they want us to pay attention to Blacks, they want us to punish white cops who treat blacks "unfairly" (a lot of these cases they bring up, the cops were following S.O.P.), etc etc. Meanwhile, I don't see them asking for Oriental History Month, or Hispanic History Month, I don't see them agreeing to White History Month, or anything of the sort. I don't see their bleeding hearts for Hispanics (which often end up in the very same boat that blacks do).

As a Christian, shouldn't we be asking God what He wants? Well, when I look at the Bible, I realize that...

3). God Loves Diversity. Do you think it was an accident that He made several groups of people that look much different from each other? Do you think it was an accident that there are Black People, that there are Hispanic People, that there are Caucasians? Orientals? Do you think that God somehow had an accident when He created these people? Of course not. God wants there to be a diverse people, because He loves diversity (just look at snowflakes: it's been theorized that no two snowflakes are ever the same). Now, even though there is diversity, there is the truth that Christ shed His Blood on the Cross for each and every person who has ever lived. This means that we are all worth the same: the price He paid. This is very much in support of Racial Equality, which is what I support.

Now, over to the Feminist/MRA side, this is something people just don't seem to understand: God wanted Males and Females to be different. We are meant to be a 2-piece jigsaw puzzle, and no person is complete without their counterpart that He has in mind for each of us. Sadly, society is so damaged by sin, that many end up single and alone, or they end up divorced and re-married (many times because the marriage was founded upon lust rather than love), and all of the other things that goes on in today's society. The Bible outlines the fact that God intended for men and women to be of equal worth, but be different that they would compliment one another.

Humans are one of THE most sexually dimorphic land mammals on the planet. I can't think of any other land mammal (or even non-mammal) that is so easy to tell the genders apart, not even other primates are that sexually dimorphic, other than perhaps lions. It doesn't matter what part of the body you look at, you can see differences between a man and a woman. Whether it is the head, arms, legs, torso, even the feet of your average woman vs your average man are quite different. It seems to me that God made it pretty clear here, that He wanted there to be a strong distinction between the two genders, but yet again: He paid the same price for All, which supports the "Equal but Different" idea.

So in light of this... I cannot support MRA, Feminist Movement, BLM, or any other group of similar nature and I believe that no Christian should be supporting any such groups/movements/etc.

What I would support, however, is something like Gender Equality (as long as they recognize that the Genders are Different but Equal in worth), Racial Equality, and similar.
 

SepiaAndDust

There's a FISH in the percolator
May 6, 2012
4,380
1,325
57
Mid-America
✟26,546.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
My problem is this: Instead of "Black Lives Matter" -- which implies that Black Lives are more important than other lives

It does no such thing. It says straight up that black lives matter, a fact that some in law enforcement seem to have forgotten.


shouldn't be All Lives Matter? Saying "Black Lives Matter" kinda implies that others don't matter as much.

Again, it implies no such thing.


The Feminist Movement very much stinks of this. And don't get me wrong, I have the exact same thoughts against MRA (Mens' Rights Activists)

You score a point on both counts.


they want us to punish white cops who treat blacks "unfairly" (a lot of these cases they bring up, the cops were following S.O.P.), etc etc.

It it well documented that blacks face far more unjust treatment than whites. Your scare quotes show that you don't actually understand what you're talking about.


Meanwhile, I don't see them asking for Oriental History Month, or Hispanic History Month

Both are real things, though Asian people don't generally like being called Oriental.


I don't see them agreeing to White History Month, or anything of the sort.

Every month is essentially White History Month.


Do you think it was an accident that He made several groups of people that look much different from each other?

Evolution did that.


that there are Hispanic People

I'm not convinced that you know what Hispanic means. In any event, God didn't create Hispanics, Europeans did.


no person is complete without their counterpart that He has in mind for each of us.

Sorry. I don't believe in soulmates.


Humans are one of THE most sexually dimorphic land mammals on the planet. I can't think of any other land mammal (or even non-mammal) that is so easy to tell the genders apart, not even other primates are that sexually dimorphic, other than perhaps lions. It doesn't matter what part of the body you look at, you can see differences between a man and a woman.

If you know what you're looking at, every other animal is the same way.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Archivist
Upvote 0

RedPonyDriver

Professional Pot Stirrer
Oct 18, 2014
3,524
2,427
USA
✟76,166.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Democrat
Feminism has NOTHING to do with superiority...it starts with economic inequality. Woman still make about 80 cents to every dollar a man makes for the SAME job. My first job out of college, I got paid less than a man doing the same job. Why? Because he had a "family" to support. I got told to go home and bake cookies. I got told "we'd love to promote you but you're just going to get married and quit". THAT is what feminism is fighting...still. Women are still being told that they way they dressed is the reason they got raped. Once again, completely leaving out that a MAN should be able to control himself. Women are still overwhelmingly the victims of domestic violence, and too many times they are told that THEY brought the abuse on themselves.

Oh..and "hispanic people" are not some monolithic group. Some of us are caucasian, some of us are of African descent, some of us are of Native descent. We have different languages, dialects, customs and habits. My family came from Cuba. My mother's family originally came from Spain and are 100% European Caucasian. My father's family is mixed Native and Caucasian. But...it seems that gringo ignorance lumps us all into one group because they can't understand that there is just as much diversity among Latinos than there is among the WASPs.

I find much of this crying about these movements comes from utter ignorance. But, I expect that of WASPs. They are so convinced of their own superiority that anyone who doesn't SPEAK as they do is immediately considered inferior. If you saw me on the street, you'd never guess I am "hispanic". You'd probably guess I have some Native blood in me, but that's it. If you had seen my mother's mother, you'd never, in a million years, guessed she was "hispanic". She had blonde hair and green eyes. My father's mother had red hair and blue eyes. BOTH "hispanic".
 
  • Like
Reactions: Archivist
Upvote 0

revanneosl

Mystically signifying since 1985
Feb 25, 2007
5,478
1,479
Northern Illniois
✟39,310.00
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Democrat
I don't actually see how a person can honestly call themselves a Christian without being willing to stand up for equal rights for women and to proclaim that Black Live Matter.
 
Upvote 0

dentonz

Regular Member
Feb 4, 2006
348
70
48
Virginia
✟16,288.00
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
I don't actually see how a person can honestly call themselves a Christian without being willing to stand up for equal rights for women and to proclaim that Black Live Matter.

I agree with your statement 100%. However, I will not stand with any movements which are built on lies and continue to perpetuate lies.
 
Upvote 0

SepiaAndDust

There's a FISH in the percolator
May 6, 2012
4,380
1,325
57
Mid-America
✟26,546.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
I don't actually see how a person can honestly call themselves a Christian without being willing to stand up for equal rights for women and to proclaim that Black Live Matter.

Christianity is based on the Bible, and I don't find much in the Bible about equal rights for women (quite the opposite, often). For all that, I don't think the Bible says much about rights.
 
Upvote 0

RedPonyDriver

Professional Pot Stirrer
Oct 18, 2014
3,524
2,427
USA
✟76,166.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Democrat
Re-reading the OP, I find that the author really hasn't a clue about much of the race/gender issues that our country has...

Black History gets ONE month. Latino History gets ONE month...White folks get the other 10 months.

People who associate themselves with the Feminist Movement appear to go a bit too far past the Equal line, into wanting extra favors for women over men, and when you do that, you stop being sexist against women, and start being sexist against men (which is how the MRA came to be). I'm just as much against MRA as I am against the Feminist Movement. I believe in Gender Equality, but I refuse to touch either of them because they are simply seeking superiority for their own genders.
For women...examples please? Is it maternity leave? Insurance coverage for contraception? Equal pay? Heck, I just want to stop getting stupid questions at job interviews like "how does your husband feel about you working late" or "how do you feel about working in a male dominated environment".

Now, over to the Feminist/MRA side, this is something people just don't seem to understand: God wanted Males and Females to be different. We are meant to be a 2-piece jigsaw puzzle, and no person is complete without their counterpart that He has in mind for each of us. Sadly, society is so damaged by sin, that many end up single and alone, or they end up divorced and re-married
To the bolded...really? I thought we were all complete in Christ. This comment says it all in terms of why you are opposed to the feminist movement. Sounds to me like you don't like the idea of a woman who's single, self-supporting and doesn't need a man to "complete" her.

Whether it is the head, arms, legs, torso, even the feet of your average woman vs your average man are quite different. It seems to me that God made it pretty clear here, that He wanted there to be a strong distinction between the two genders, but yet again: He paid the same price for All, which supports the "Equal but Different" idea.
I'm bigger than some men, smaller than others...I'm stronger than some but not others. I'm smarter than most men, but not others. AND? If you can't tell I'm a female, you need to a) get your eyes checked and b) attend remedial gender identification training.
 
Upvote 0

Xalith

Newbie
Apr 6, 2015
1,518
630
✟19,943.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Re-reading the OP, I find that the author really hasn't a clue about much of the race/gender issues that our country has...

Black History gets ONE month. Latino History gets ONE month...White folks get the other 10 months.

There are no months devoted to white history. Zero.

For women...examples please? Is it maternity leave? Insurance coverage for contraception? Equal pay? Heck, I just want to stop getting stupid questions at job interviews like "how does your husband feel about you working late" or "how do you feel about working in a male dominated environment".

They want better pay, they want better opportunities, they think that women should be included in everything, even to the point that they are moreso than men. You give them an inch, they'll ask for 50 more. Even if that 50 more inches puts them past the men.

MRA does the exact same thing.

To the bolded...really? I thought we were all complete in Christ. This comment says it all in terms of why you are opposed to the feminist movement. Sounds to me like you don't like the idea of a woman who's single, self-supporting and doesn't need a man to "complete" her.

Uh, when did I say this was about women? The bolded part said no person (note I did NOT say "woman" nor "man") is complete without their counterpart.

I'm talking about a different kind of completeness. God made woman for man, and man for woman. They are meant to fit together like a two-piece jigsaw puzzle. Emotionally, Physically, and Spiritually. They were made to support one another, and make one another's life more pleasant.

They are both equally valuable. They can survive on their own without their "other half", but they are oftentimes lonely and even God said "it is not good for man to be alone" (I would surmise that He would have said the same if Eve had been the first one to be made). He wants Man and Woman to find a matching mate to enjoy life with.

When both come together, and they both worship Christ... then their life is truly complete in each other, and with Christ, Together.


I'm bigger than some men, smaller than others...I'm stronger than some but not others. I'm smarter than most men, but not others. AND? If you can't tell I'm a female, you need to a) get your eyes checked and b) attend remedial gender identification training.

I have no idea what you meant by this. You are basically agreeing with my point that every single part of your body is sexually dimorphic compared to a man's. You could (in theory!) take a picture of any part of your body... even just your hand, or your foot, and anybody should be able to tell if that is the hand of a woman or the hand of a man.

I cannot think of any other land mammal you can do this with. If you look at a cat, or a dog straight in the face, without being able to see its genitalia, can you tell if it is male or female? Probably not.
 
Upvote 0

RedPonyDriver

Professional Pot Stirrer
Oct 18, 2014
3,524
2,427
USA
✟76,166.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Democrat
They want better pay, they want better opportunities, they think that women should be included in everything,

And? How is this a bad thing? You mean that women SHOULDN'T get paid an equal wage? That making roughly 80% of what a man makes for the same job is ok? Is it ok that women used to be excluded from things like medical school, law school, engineering, etc?

What is your problem?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Xalith

Newbie
Apr 6, 2015
1,518
630
✟19,943.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
And? How is this a bad thing? You mean that women SHOULDN'T get paid an equal wage? That making roughly 80% of what a man makes for the same job is ok? Is it ok that women used to be excluded from things like medical school, law school, engineering, etc?

They won't stop at equal, though. Once they get equal, they'll keep acting like it ain't equal so that they can get it increased more.

What is your problem?

Someone starts out by being on the low end of unequal. They ask and plead and ask and plead, then they get equal. But they don't stop asking and pleading and crying their eyes out, they will twist facts to put themselves ahead.

It's human nature to use any loophole possible to get ahead, even if it means lying to do it.

And besides, with the woman's wage thing... how many places REALLY pay less? I know where I work, women get paid same as guys, and I've not heard a single woman around here complaining about their wages compared to men's.
 
Upvote 0

RedPonyDriver

Professional Pot Stirrer
Oct 18, 2014
3,524
2,427
USA
✟76,166.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Democrat
The biggest factor to a white man's opposition to BLM, Feminism, and other social movements is fear. Fear of losing their "majority" status, fear of losing the power they have taken for themselves, and fear of being treated like the minorities they have oppressed over the last however many hundreds of years.

It is a historical fact that women and minorities make less for the same job than a white male. I've been there...now, as I've moved up the ladder, it's no longer a factor, but it was for quite a few years. I hit the jackpot for discrimination...female AND Latina. So, when I hear (read) someone talking about how these movements are "Un-Christian", I hear someone who is still entrenched in ignorance, fear and yes, bigotry, disguised as some religious deal.

Its also obvious that the OP did not read any of my earlier posts regarding "white history month"...which is 10 months out of the year...Oh well, enjoy your fear...it won't be long before white men are a minority in the US and then they will understand that turnaround is fair play.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

HannahT

Newbie
Supporter
Apr 9, 2013
6,027
2,422
✟458,831.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Personally, I think many of the movements started with excellent intent. The cause was just! What kills them is the whack jobs with their black and white thinking. They start with the yelling, screaming, shaming, accusing, and making nasty assumptions.

Their viewpoints could be right as rain, but you throw in the rest of the garbage? It's like writing truth on bomb, and sending it off to explode...and the truth explodes with it.

People from all backgrounds, cultures, countries or whatever seriously need to pause with the: If you don't think I do YOU are a (insert whatever nasty label people can come up)! It's like we have totally lost our discernment as to when to call a spade a spade as the saying goes. There are times in which you do call out the bigots, etc. There is a time and place for everything. Yet, this I have a difference of opinion shouldn't be a greenlight to all out attacks like it seems today. It's awful, and everyone does it. You don't need a 'cause' to support to get involved with it either.

It seems like there is this HUGE movement that everyone participates in today - its called spread the hate in your own little way!

Quite frankly, I'm afraid of all of them. It just makes me sad to think about it. I try my hardest to treat everyone with respect, and being human there are times I fail...but I continue anyway. I hate injustice, corruption, etc. Yet, I can't stand the narrow mindedness that seems to creep into all cultures, races, faiths, neighborhoods, genders, etc today. People claim diversity. Please. I see circle the wagons, and us against them. The world seems to be falling apart around our ears.

I'm thankful for forms of feminism, because I'm a woman. Yet, I wouldn't own that label today even if they threatened me if I didn't. Way to many of them have gone way out to wack a doodle country! I don't even recognize what it stands for today. There are so many women in this world that NEED the true sense of that in their parts of the world, and instead they find things to get upset about here that most of the time MAKE no sense. 2nd wave lost their way the in the same fashion, and the 3rd wave? Who are these people?!
 
Upvote 0

nathan123

New Member
Jan 12, 2021
1
0
22
kent
✟7,701.00
Country
Bahrain
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
when you said all lives matter instead of blm how would all lives matter if black lives dont white lives already matter and noone is going against that so people are tying to upbring that if you only care about white lives then all lives dont matter because other races are downgraded if your Christian you would support blm. And i know for a fact that the person who wrote this is white
 
Upvote 0

Hazelelponi

I'm back
Supporter
Jun 25, 2018
9,210
8,689
55
USA
✟676,936.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I'm not sure if this goes in General Politics or not, but I wanted to put this in a place that is Christians-Only (if you put it anywhere else, you get atheists, agnostics, etc trolling).

Feminism, Black Lives Matter, etc are kinda-sorta "politics", and "ethics" both, but the other thread says "Christian Ethics" and I wasn't sure which forum to put it in, so it's going here.

While musing at work yesterday, I had some thoughts come to me about all of this feminism, black lives matter, etc stuff come to me, and you know what I came down to the conclusion of?

It is my personal belief that no Christian should ever touch either of these movements (or any others like them) with a 50 foot pole. I'm not saying to attack them, or speak out against them, but I don't think that Christians should be supporting them instead, and this is why:

1). All Three Movements are Hypocritical.We know from the Gospels that Christ has a rather low view of hypocrites, and I seem to remember God saying elsewhere in the Bible that He doesn't like hypocrites either. It's right there in the name of the movements, to be honest. The feminist movement claims they are tired of sexism and gender inequality, Black Lives Matter says they hate racism and want it to stop.

So, quick, tell me: If someone claims to hate Thing A, that means they probably want Thing B which is basically the opposite, right? If you're going to claim you hate gender inequality, then that must mean you want gender equality, right? Is that a fair statement? If you're going to claim you hate racism, then that means you want racial equality, right?

My problem is this: Instead of "Black Lives Matter" -- which implies that Black Lives are more important than other lives -- shouldn't be All Lives Matter? Saying "Black Lives Matter" kinda implies that others don't matter as much. What about the Hispanics? The Orientals? Middle-Eastern? If you're going to claim to be against racism, shouldn't you be supporting all races instead of just one? And then, with the Feminist Movement and the MRA, if you're going to claim you want Gender Equality, then why are you choosing a name that focuses on the male or female gender? Shouldn't your movement be named "Anti-Sexism Movement" or something else neutral? But yet it isn't, because...

2). All Three Movements Appear to be Superiority Movements Instead. Please note I said "Appear to be" in the title of this section. The Feminist Movement very much stinks of this. And don't get me wrong, I have the exact same thoughts against MRA (Mens' Rights Activists): They appear to not be looking for gender equality, they seem to instead be looking for feminine superiority, much in the same way that Affirmative Action was seeking superiority for minorities seeking jobs. Eventually we did away with AA and instead introduced Equal Opportunity, which is what it should have been from the start.

People who associate themselves with the Feminist Movement appear to go a bit too far past the Equal line, into wanting extra favors for women over men, and when you do that, you stop being sexist against women, and start being sexist against men (which is how the MRA came to be). I'm just as much against MRA as I am against the Feminist Movement. I believe in Gender Equality, but I refuse to touch either of them because they are simply seeking superiority for their own genders.

Now, for Black Lives Matter... they want Black History Month, they want us to pay attention to Blacks, they want us to punish white cops who treat blacks "unfairly" (a lot of these cases they bring up, the cops were following S.O.P.), etc etc. Meanwhile, I don't see them asking for Oriental History Month, or Hispanic History Month, I don't see them agreeing to White History Month, or anything of the sort. I don't see their bleeding hearts for Hispanics (which often end up in the very same boat that blacks do).

As a Christian, shouldn't we be asking God what He wants? Well, when I look at the Bible, I realize that...

3). God Loves Diversity. Do you think it was an accident that He made several groups of people that look much different from each other? Do you think it was an accident that there are Black People, that there are Hispanic People, that there are Caucasians? Orientals? Do you think that God somehow had an accident when He created these people? Of course not. God wants there to be a diverse people, because He loves diversity (just look at snowflakes: it's been theorized that no two snowflakes are ever the same). Now, even though there is diversity, there is the truth that Christ shed His Blood on the Cross for each and every person who has ever lived. This means that we are all worth the same: the price He paid. This is very much in support of Racial Equality, which is what I support.

Now, over to the Feminist/MRA side, this is something people just don't seem to understand: God wanted Males and Females to be different. We are meant to be a 2-piece jigsaw puzzle, and no person is complete without their counterpart that He has in mind for each of us. Sadly, society is so damaged by sin, that many end up single and alone, or they end up divorced and re-married (many times because the marriage was founded upon lust rather than love), and all of the other things that goes on in today's society. The Bible outlines the fact that God intended for men and women to be of equal worth, but be different that they would compliment one another.

Humans are one of THE most sexually dimorphic land mammals on the planet. I can't think of any other land mammal (or even non-mammal) that is so easy to tell the genders apart, not even other primates are that sexually dimorphic, other than perhaps lions. It doesn't matter what part of the body you look at, you can see differences between a man and a woman. Whether it is the head, arms, legs, torso, even the feet of your average woman vs your average man are quite different. It seems to me that God made it pretty clear here, that He wanted there to be a strong distinction between the two genders, but yet again: He paid the same price for All, which supports the "Equal but Different" idea.

So in light of this... I cannot support MRA, Feminist Movement, BLM, or any other group of similar nature and I believe that no Christian should be supporting any such groups/movements/etc.

What I would support, however, is something like Gender Equality (as long as they recognize that the Genders are Different but Equal in worth), Racial Equality, and similar.


Something for you to listen to for quality Christian perspective on these issues (issues like God's justice which Christians must desire, versus the kind of justice BLM and other groups promote - there is a difference) is this Pastor, he has done many talks and preaching on these topics:


And I find a lot of Scriptural wisdom and great insight in his teaching...


There are more as well, just look him up.. he's a great Pastor.
 
Upvote 0