A Century After the Race Massacre, Tulsa Confronts Its Bloody Past

[SummerMadness]

100 Years After the Tulsa Massacre, What Does Justice Look Like?

As dusk was falling on Sept. 16, 2016, callers began dialing 9-1-1 to report that a Lincoln Navigator had been abandoned on 36th Street North in Tulsa, Okla.

A couple of callers said the S.U.V. had been left in the center of the road, its driver’s door left open — “like somebody jumped out.”

Two officers, Betty Jo Shelby and Tyler Turnbough, were sent to the scene, and one of the Tulsa Police Department’s two helicopters provided aerial surveillance. As Shelby and Turnbough approached the S.U.V., they saw a Black man standing beside the vehicle, on the driver’s side. Shelby and Turnbough would later say that he would not comply with their orders.

Overhead, an officer in the helicopter said, “Time for a Taser, I think.”

Another replied, “I’ve got a feeling that’s about to happen.”

Turnbough drew his Taser; Shelby drew her gun. In their earpieces, they heard from above: “That looks like a bad dude, too. Could be on something.”

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

However, it is not "understandable" and the white woman was not raped, and it is not was not okay to lynch the accused or demand to do that.

We don't know what happened between Rowland and Sarah Page, because neither of them were willing to talk about it.

The black men who defended the accused were vets. They were trying to prevent a crime by a white mob who went on to destroy homes and businesses of successful black folks.

That was the sheriff's job. Ultimately, they were guilty of the same thing the white mob was - trying to take the law into their own hands. Do remember that it was the "systemically racist" authorities of the time that prevented Rowland's lynching and put a stop to the destruction.

The 'official' death toll was about 30 but experts believe it was far more. 10,000 homeless as a result.

The 1921 Tulsa Race Riot Commission's 2001 report was able to confirm 39 dead, 26 black and 13 white. If we go with the evidence, rather than the imaginations of self-proclaimed "experts", we're talking about a race riot of about the same magnitude as the Watts Riots.

By all means, let's talk about the race riots in Tulsa a hundred years ago, but let's do it based on facts and evidence. Not in such a selective, one-sided and misleading manner that aims only at promoting notions of white wickedness and black victimhood.

 

[FreeinChrist]

We don't know what happened between Rowland and Sarah Page, because neither of them were willing to talk about it.

It was discussed in court at the time. He was cleared.

That was the sheriff's job. Ultimately, they were guilty of the same thing the white mob was - trying to take the law into their own hands. Do remember that it was the "systemically racist" authorities of the time that prevented Rowland's lynching and put a stop to the destruction.

Except the police were complicit with the violence that took place. They were part of it along with the fellow who dropped bombs from a plane.

The 1921 Tulsa Race Riot Commission's 2001 report was able to confirm 39 dead, 26 black and 13 white. If we go with the evidence, rather than the imaginations of self-proclaimed "experts", we're talking about a race riot of about the same magnitude as the Watts Riots.

Other people went missing and they have found at least one mass grave nearby. Check the news.

By all means, let's talk about the race riots in Tulsa a hundred years ago, but let's do it based on facts and evidence. Not in such a selective, one-sided and misleading manner that aims only at promoting notions of white wickedness and black victimhood.

That requires that those who dismiss it to start accepting that the white mob did something horrible and criminal and the white police/government did NOTHING, and in fact, tried hard to make it go away. Fact is, there were other places that suffered the same though on a much less scale.

The truth will out.

 

[SummerMadness]

I simply don't understand it, what is behind the desire to deny or sanitize the Tulsa race massacre? Why not visit the Greenwood Rising History Center instead of arguing that bombing a neighborhood was somehow justified. Next thing you know you'll hear people saying Emmett Till really did whistle at that white woman, so it's understandable that he was beaten, mutilated and murdered. You know, not that many Jews died in the Holocaust... I think this puts the denialism into perspective.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

It was discussed in court at the time. He was cleared.



Except the police were complicit with the violence that took place. They were part of it along with the fellow who dropped bombs from a plane.



Other people went missing and they have found at least one mass grave nearby. Check the news.



That requires that those who dismiss it to start accepting that the white mob did something horrible and criminal and the white police/government did NOTHING, and in fact, tried hard to make it go away. Fact is, there were other places that suffered the same though on a much less scale.

The truth will out.

Quit trying to change the narrative with actual facts, you don't want to be accused of trying to cancel the agenda. Facts have no place in the history of race relations that are written by white people.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

I simply don't understand it, what is behind the desire to deny or sanitize the Tulsa race massacre? Why not visit the Greenwood Rising History Center instead of arguing that bombing a neighborhood was somehow justified. Next thing you know you'll hear people saying Emmett Till really did whistle at that white woman, so it's understandable that he was beaten, mutilated and murdered. You know, not that many Jews died in the Holocaust... I think this puts the denialism into perspective.

Holocaust is such a strong word, perhaps it could be called "That thing that may have happened".

 

[wing2000]

Until this past year, had anyone else heard of the Tulsa Massacre? I had not...and I'm pretty sure it was never mentioned in my schooling (1980's).

Why was this horrific event apparently excluded from school curriculum's across the country - including Tulsa's schoools?


The story on the tape couldn’t be real.

That’s what state Sen. Kevin Matthews thought as he watched a VHS film, given to him by his great-uncle, depicting a white mob destroying Tulsa’s Greenwood District.

Matthews, 61, was in his 30s at the time. He had grown up in Tulsa and graduated from Tulsa Public Schools.

But, he had never heard this story before.

“I watched it, and I thought it was a fictional movie,” Matthews said. “I couldn’t stop looking at it. It was shocking to me. I couldn’t understand how I could get to be an adult and not know this story.”

Why weren't Black Wall Street, Tulsa Race Massacre taught in schools?

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Until this past year, had anyone else heard of the Tulsa Massacre? I had not...and I'm pretty sure it was never mentioned in my schooling (1980's).

Why was this horrific event apparently excluded from school curriculum's across the country - including Tulsa's schoools?


The story on the tape couldn’t be real.

That’s what state Sen. Kevin Matthews thought as he watched a VHS film, given to him by his great-uncle, depicting a white mob destroying Tulsa’s Greenwood District.

Matthews, 61, was in his 30s at the time. He had grown up in Tulsa and graduated from Tulsa Public Schools.

But, he had never heard this story before.

“I watched it, and I thought it was a fictional movie,” Matthews said. “I couldn’t stop looking at it. It was shocking to me. I couldn’t understand how I could get to be an adult and not know this story.”

Why weren't Black Wall Street, Tulsa Race Massacre taught in schools?

I know, right? I never heard of Medgar Evers when I went to school in Brookhaven, Mississippi in 1986 to 1988, it was only when I returned to Alabama that we learned about him. I wonder why Mississippi didn't mention him?

 

[Yttrium]

Until this past year, had anyone else heard of the Tulsa Massacre? I had not...and I'm pretty sure it was never mentioned in my schooling (1980's).

Not me. I was shocked that I had never heard about this.

 

[disciple Clint]

It was discussed in court at the time. He was cleared.



Except the police were complicit with the violence that took place. They were part of it along with the fellow who dropped bombs from a plane.



Other people went missing and they have found at least one mass grave nearby. Check the news.



That requires that those who dismiss it to start accepting that the white mob did something horrible and criminal and the white police/government did NOTHING, and in fact, tried hard to make it go away. Fact is, there were other places that suffered the same though on a much less scale.

The truth will out.

Just out of fairness should we not also out the truth about how Native Americans were treated and should we not go on from there to discuss all the other atrocities in the history of our nation? If we are going to start pushing for reparations we need to be fair to all.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

Just out of fairness should we not also out the truth about how Native Americans were treated and should we not go on from there to discuss all the other atrocities in the history of our nation? If we are going to start pushing for reparations we need to be fair to all.

And include France, The Netherlands, Spain, and England in the lot since they really started it.

 

[SummerMadness]

Just out of fairness should we not also out the truth about how Native Americans were treated and should we not go on from there to discuss all the other atrocities in the history of our nation? If we are going to start pushing for reparations we need to be fair to all.

The survivors of the massacre have still not been compensated. Is the hangup here the fact that black people might be compensated for a government sanctioned massacre? Let's talk about Native Americans... these people are still alive! I thought that was the complaint. But no, it's not about whether people are alive or dead, it's about black people getting something that in the estimation of the complainers, they don't deserve.

 

[KCfromNC]

I simply don't understand it, what is behind the desire to deny or sanitize the Tulsa race massacre?

I have an idea or two.

 

[Fantine]

I was shocked to hear yesterday that during this massacre private planes dropped bombs on Greenwood, the only time private planes ever dropped bombs in the U.S.

The story has parallels to another Oklahoma scandal which has been turned into a Martin Scorsese movie--Killers of the Flower Moon.

The Native Americans who had been on the Trail of Tears were given non-arable land in western Oklahoma. When oil was discovered on the land, they became wealthy.

What followed was a series of murders and land theft by the white settlers, with local police turning a blind eye.

The incidents resulted in the formation of the FBI.

Oklahoma was a territory for a very long time. Could the attacks on the blacks and Native Americans indicate the "dark side" of the pioneers?

Today, Oklahoma has more than its share of right wing hate groups and the site of the OKC bombing. Their government is decidedly anti-government.

So what's up, Oklahoma? You can recover from your past. Embrace brotherhood.

 

[Landon Caeli]

I was shocked to hear yesterday that during this massacre private planes dropped bombs on Greenwood, the only time private planes ever dropped bombs in the U.S.

The story has parallels to another Oklahoma scandal which has been turned into a Martin Scorsese movie--Killers of the Flower Moon.

The Native Americans who had been on the Trail of Tears were given non-arable land in western Oklahoma. When oil was discovered on the land, they became wealthy.

What followed was a series of murders and land theft by the white settlers, with local police turning a blind eye.

The incidents resulted in the formation of the FBI.

Oklahoma was a territory for a very long time. Could the attacks on the blacks and Native Americans indicate the "dark side" of the pioneers?

Today, Oklahoma has more than its share of right wing hate groups and the site of the OKC bombing. Their government is decidedly anti-government.

So what's up, Oklahoma? You can recover from your past. Embrace brotherhood.

There needs to be a series on it. They already did it about Compton (created by Little Marvin)... They should do it about Tulsa too.

‘Them’ Shows How 1950s Compton Was a Real-Life Nightmare for Black Families

 

[Landon Caeli]

There needs to be a series on it. They already did it about Compton... They should do it about Tulsa too.

‘Them’ Shows How 1950s Compton Was a Real-Life Nightmare for Black Families

...Make it "award winning"

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

It was discussed in court at the time. He was cleared.

Discussed by who? The only two people who would what happened back in that elevator wouldn't discuss it. That's why the charges were dismissed.

Except the police were complicit with the violence that took place. They were part of it along with the fellow who dropped bombs from a plane.

Planes were rare in those days, and even military planes were used mainly for reconnaissance. It's an anachronism, really. Planes dropping bombs to attack cities didn't really become part of military doctrine until World War II. So I'm going to call horsepuckies on this one, and it seems as though I'm in fairly good company. From the Oklahoma Commission Report via Wikipedia:

"Richard S. Warner concluded in his submission to The Oklahoma Commission that contrary to later reports by claimed eyewitnesses of seeing explosions, there was no reliable evidence to support such attacks. Warner noted that while a number of newspapers targeted at Black readers heavily reported the use of nitroglycerin, turpentine and rifles from the planes, many cited anonymous sources or second-hand accounts. Beryl Ford, one of the pre-eminent historians of the disaster, concluded from his large collection of photographs that there was no evidence of any building damaged by explosions."

Other people went missing and they have found at least one mass grave nearby. Check the news.

Missing people can't be assumed dead. Plenty of people left the city after the riot, never to return. Yes, after months of searching, a mass grave containing twelve coffins was apparently found in a Tulsa cemetery a few days ago. This has yet to be connected to the riot - just as likely the people buried there died in the 1918 influenza pandemic, and even if it were, it still would point to a body count of anywhere near 300.

That requires that those who dismiss it to start accepting that the white mob did something horrible and criminal

Indeed, and so did the black mob. This was not just a white mob attacking a passive black population.

and the white police/government did NOTHING,

The sheriff prevented the mob from lynching Roland. The Oklahoma National Guard came to the city and restored order. Yet by some curious logic, that is "nothing"....

Until this past year, had anyone else heard of the Tulsa Massacre?

I had. Then again, I have a greater interest in history most.

Why was this horrific event apparently excluded from school curriculum's across the country

Why is the Wall Street Bombing of 1920 excluded from school curriculums? So much material and only so much time.

 

[disciple Clint]

Discussed by who? The only two people who would what happened back in that elevator wouldn't discuss it. That's why the charges were dismissed.



Planes were rare in those days, and even military planes were used mainly for reconnaissance. It's an anachronism, really. Planes dropping bombs to attack cities didn't really become part of military doctrine until World War II. So I'm going to call horsepuckies on this one, and it seems as though I'm in fairly good company. From the Oklahoma Commission Report via Wikipedia:

"Richard S. Warner concluded in his submission to The Oklahoma Commission that contrary to later reports by claimed eyewitnesses of seeing explosions, there was no reliable evidence to support such attacks. Warner noted that while a number of newspapers targeted at Black readers heavily reported the use of nitroglycerin, turpentine and rifles from the planes, many cited anonymous sources or second-hand accounts. Beryl Ford, one of the pre-eminent historians of the disaster, concluded from his large collection of photographs that there was no evidence of any building damaged by explosions."



Missing people can't be assumed dead. Plenty of people left the city after the riot, never to return. Yes, after months of searching, a mass grave containing twelve coffins was apparently found in a Tulsa cemetery a few days ago. This has yet to be connected to the riot - just as likely the people buried there died in the 1918 influenza pandemic, and even if it were, it still would point to a body count of anywhere near 300.



Indeed, and so did the black mob. This was not just a white mob attacking a passive black population.



The sheriff prevented the mob from lynching Roland. The Oklahoma National Guard came to the city and restored order. Yet by some curious logic, that is "nothing"....



I had. Then again, I have a greater interest in history most.



Why is the Wall Street Bombing of 1920 excluded from school curriculums? So much material and only so much time.

I can say based on my personal experience that the press has a way of making an event much more exciting than it actually was. I have seen media reports of events I have been involved in and the reports have almost nothing to do with what actually happened. I have also seen Hollywood productions of events I had knowledge of and there was nothing accurate except the names and the dates. So stand by when the move comes out there will be a B52 carpet bombing sleeping civilians. Now before you jump up and down with artificial outrage, I am in no way attempting to minimize the event, it was horrible, wrong and unjustified.

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

I can say based on my personal experience that the press has a way of making an event much more exciting than it actually was. I have seen media reports of events I have been involved in and the reports have almost nothing to do with what actually happened. I have also seen Hollywood productions of events I had knowledge of and there was nothing accurate except the names and the dates. So stand by when the move comes out there will be a B52 carpet bombing sleeping civilians. Now before you jump up and down with artificial outrage, I am in no way attempting to minimize the event, it was horrible, wrong and unjustified.

Real history, as opposed to myth, is complex and fraught with ambiguity. It doesn't serve political propagandists well.

 

[Pommer]

Real history, as opposed to myth, is complex and fraught with ambiguity. It doesn't serve political propagandists well.

So..what? We don’t have to talk about this anymore!?
Good idea.
Nothing good ever comes from confessing one’s errors.