Pommer

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Anything that we look at in history has to be viewed through the eyes of the people of that time.
Well, apparently the people at the time must’ve thought that the black population “had it coming” because they dished it out.
It’s still reprehensible, it was back then, it is now.
 
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disciple Clint

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Well, apparently the people at the time must’ve thought that the black population “had it coming” because they dished it out.
It’s still reprehensible, it was back then, it is now.
Unfortunately, at that time the people did not bother to even think about black people having any need to be treated fairly. Now I suppose I am going to have some people get all up in the air over that statement, but we need to know how things were in those days.
 
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SummerMadness

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Unfortunately, at that time the people did not bother to even think about black people having any need to be treated fairly. Now I suppose I am going to have some people get all up in the air over that statement, but we need to know how things were in those days.
Your post is ignorant of American history. If you look at US history, black people have been mobilizing and organizing for civil rights since the 19th century. People will be up in the air over that statement because you're trying to justify a racist massacre with a "those were the times" argument when in fact, those were not the times. It was considered wrong then and it was considered wrong now.

Americans not knowing US history is exemplified by your posts in this thread; what's worse is linking to an encyclopedia article, yet still managing to get things wrong.
 
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FreeinChrist

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Do you not think that it is important to view things in a historical perspective? The values that you are using to make judgments are not the same values that were being used at that time. I perhaps should have use the word allegedly raped but my mind was on trying to make the actions of people in 1921 understandable to people of our times rather than attempting to asses blame. Anything that we look at in history has to be viewed through the eyes of the people of that time. We have that same problem with people who read the Bible and fail to think about the fact that God was dealing with people and a social situation that was much different than what we have today.

I think you should quit trying to make it "understandable". You end up defending it. The same argument could used to defend mistreatment of slaves - it was wrong.

Lots of whites in other parts of the US did not burn down successful black areas or try to lynch black people. Unfortunately, through the south, lynching was more common. It was never okay.
 
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disciple Clint

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You are ignorant of American history. Get a history book, black people have been mobilizing and organizing for civil rights since the 19th century. People will be up in the air over that statement because you're trying to justify a racist massacre with a "those were the times" argument when in fact, those were not the times. It was considered wrong then and it was considered wrong now.

Americans not knowing US history is exemplified by your posts in this thread; what's worse is linking to an encyclopedia article, yet still managing to get things wrong.
There is absolutely no justification for those assertions, they are simply intended to be inflammatory.
I am ignorant of the rewrite of U.S. History, or the one sided view of it by those who want to look for excuses rather than solutions. The blame game and insincere righteous indignation will not disguise the truth. The civil rights movement would have gone absolutely no where if it were not for white people supporting it and working to get legislation enacted. What some may call a civil rights movement now is nothing but a hate campaign full of deception and false narratives. It is going to result in dividing the country and promoting anarchy.
 
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disciple Clint

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I think you should quit trying to make it "understandable". You end up defending it. The same argument could used to defend mistreatment of slaves - it was wrong.

Lots of whites in other parts of the US did not burn down successful black areas or try to lynch black people. Unfortunately, through the south, lynching was more common. It was never okay.
There is noting in my post that is intended to come even close to defending or justifying the actions in that event. I believe I have made that clear in several posts.
 
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FreeinChrist

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There is noting in my post that is intended to come even close to defending or justifying the actions in that event. I believe I have made that clear in several posts.

Your intent may not be to justify it - but that is what comes across.
 
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SummerMadness

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There is absolutely no justification for those assertions, they are simply intended to be inflammatory.
No, it's quite accurate. The fight for civil rights in the US did not just involve a movement with Martin Luther King, Jr. It was a campaign that was far longer, involving many people. Ignorance argues that no one cared about civil rights before then. No, people did care about civil rights before then.

I am ignorant of the rewrite of U.S. History, or the one sided view of it by those who want to look for excuses rather than solutions. The blame game and insincere righteous indignation will not disguise the truth. The civil rights movement would have gone absolutely no where if it were not for white people supporting it and working to get legislation enacted.
And what does that have to do with anything? Are you now arguing that white people are not given enough credit for civil rights?

What some may call a civil rights movement now is nothing but a hate campaign full of deception and false narratives. It is going to result in dividing the country and promoting anarchy.
First, this statement is unrelated to this topic, but I do consider it funny because the Civil Rights Movement of the 1950s and 1960s was also attacked as divisive. Some things never change. :)
 
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FreeinChrist

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This is interesting

Tulsa Race Massacre, 100 years later: Why it happened and why it’s still relevant today

“The district really took off as an economic and entrepreneurial kind of Mecca for Black folks because this was an era of segregation,” he said. “Black folks were shut out from the dominant white-led economy in what I call an economic detour. In other words, when they approached the gate of economic opportunity at the white dominated downtown Tulsa economy, they were turned away. So they created their own insular economy in the Greenwood district and blossomed because dollars were able to circulate and recirculate within the confines of the community because there really was not much of an option, given the segregation that existed here and elsewhere.”

This prosperity continued through the years even as racial terrorism around Tulsa grew, the Ku Klux Klan gained power, and Oklahoma’s Supreme Court regularly upheld voting restrictions such as poll taxes and literacy tests for Black voters. By 1919, white civic leaders sought Greenwood’s land for a railroad depot or other uses....

“You have a really successful Black business community across the Frisco tracks, literally across the tracks from downtown Tulsa,” said Johnson, the education chair for the Centennial Commission. “You have white people, some of whom are not doing well economically, who can look across those tracks and see Black people living in homes, driving cars, furnishing their homes with pianos, women wearing furs, all the trappings of economic success. And so there's that dissonance between what these people think ought to be, based on white supremacy, and what actually is. And one of the ways to harmonize that dissonance is to bring the Black folks down a peg through violence.”​
Many of the white mob got deputized by the police. Tulsa does need to answer for this as the police participated in the massacre.

 
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iluvatar5150

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There is noting in my post that is intended to come even close to defending or justifying the actions in that event. I believe I have made that clear in several posts.

It would be easier to offer you the benefit of the doubt in this case (re: your trying to explain how things were in the past without justifying them) if it weren't the case that many of your other posts espouse beliefs that diminish claims of anti-black racism and flirt with white supremacist propaganda. For example:

The civil rights movement would have gone absolutely no where if it were not for white people supporting it and working to get legislation enacted. What some may call a civil rights movement now is nothing but a hate campaign full of deception and false narratives. It is going to result in dividing the country and promoting anarchy.

Not only is that highly questionable in terms of accuracy, and echoes the same criticisms made against previous civil rights movements, but I don't know how that was even relevant to the comment to which you were responding.

Assuming your thoughts and intentions are virtuous, then at best, you're getting propagandized by somebody who's thoughts and intentions are not virtuous.
 
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durangodawood

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...First, this statement is unrelated to this topic, but I do consider it funny because the Civil Rights Movement of the 1950s and 1960s was also attacked as divisive. Some things never change. :)
It was devisive. People (and institutions) who wanted to maintain white supremacy were highly offended. You can see it on their faces in the pictures.
 
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SummerMadness

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Code Switch's Recommended Reads About The Tulsa Massacre
We went to Tulsa to report on the 100th anniversary of the 1921 massacre, in which a white mob destroyed a Black neighborhood called Greenwood and killed an estimated 300 people, most of them Black. In addition to our reporting on Tulsa, we wanted to tell you about a few books and articles about the massacre that will allow you to take a deeper dive — including some recommendations from a bookstore owner from Tulsa.
 
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disciple Clint

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It would be easier to offer you the benefit of the doubt in this case (re: your trying to explain how things were in the past without justifying them) if it weren't the case that many of your other posts espouse beliefs that diminish claims of anti-black racism and flirt with white supremacist propaganda. For example:



Not only is that highly questionable in terms of accuracy, and echoes the same criticisms made against previous civil rights movements, but I don't know how that was even relevant to the comment to which you were responding.

Assuming your thoughts and intentions are virtuous, then at best, you're getting propagandized by somebody who's thoughts and intentions are not virtuous.
I can see how my opposition to BLM is being interpreted as being racist, that is not the case, I have no problem with race diversity, I have major disagreements with BLM which in my estimation is doing nothing but harm to race relations.
 
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Pommer

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I can see how my opposition to BLM is being interpreted as being racist, that is not the case, I have no problem with race diversity, I have major disagreements with BLM which in my estimation is doing nothing but harm to race relations.
Maybe you’re wrong?
 
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iluvatar5150

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Have race relations improved over the past 1-2 years?

A lot more attention is being paid to police violence and reform, which is one of BLM’s main concerns.
 
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SummerMadness

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Black Wall Street was shattered 100 years ago. How the Tulsa race massacre was covered up and unearthed
A century ago this week, the wealthiest U.S. Black community was burned to the ground.

At the turn of the 20th century, the Greenwood District of Tulsa, Oklahoma, became one of the first communities in the country thriving with Black entrepreneurial businesses. The prosperous town, founded by many descendants of slaves, earned a reputation as the Black Wall Street of America and became a harbor for African Americans in a highly segregated city under Jim Crow laws.​

On May 31, 1921, a white mob turned Greenwood upside down in one of the worst racial massacres in U.S. history. In the matter of hours, 35 square blocks of the vibrant Black community were turned into smoldering ashes. Countless Black people were killed — estimates ranged from 55 to more than 300 — and 1,000 homes and businesses were looted and set on fire.​

Yet for the longest time, the massacre received scant mentions in newspapers, textbooks and civil and governmental conversations. It wasn’t until 2000 that the slaughter was included in the Oklahoma public schools’ curriculum, and it did not enter American history textbooks until recent years. The 1921 Tulsa Race Riot Commission was formed to investigate in 1997 and officially released a report in 2001.​

“The massacre was actively covered up in the white community in Tulsa for nearly a half century,” said Scott Ellsworth, a professor of Afro American and African studies at the University of Michigan and author of “The Ground Breaking” about the Tulsa massacre.​

“When I started my research in the 1970s, I discovered that official National Guard reports and other documents were all missing,” Ellsworth said. “Tulsa’s two daily white newspapers, they went out of their way for decades not to mention the massacre. Researchers who would try to do work on this as late as the early 1970s had their lives threatened and had their career threatened.”

In the week following the massacre, Tulsa’s chief of police ordered his officers to go to all the photography studios in Tulsa and confiscate all the pictures taken of the carnage, Ellsworth said.

These photos, which were later discovered and became the materials the Oklahoma Commission used to study the massacre, eventually landed in the lap of Michelle Place at Tulsa Historical Society & Museum in 2001.

“It took me about four days to get through the box because the photographs were so horrific. I had never seen those kinds of pictures before,” Place said. “I didn’t know anything about the riot before I came to work here. I never heard of it. Since I’ve been here, I’ve been at my desk to guard them to the very best of my ability.”​
 
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