A Catholic writes concerning East-West union. Thoughts?

[truthseeker32]

Roman Rights and Wrongs | Catholic World Report - Global Church news and views

 

[truthseeker32]

This is also relevant:

Spitting in Rome’s Eye: A Reflection on How Orthodoxy’s Sinfulness Prevents Reunion | Red River Orthodox

 

[ArmyMatt]

the Catholic on there forgot to mention many of the theological issues that divide us. he only really brought up the filioque and papal supremecy, and the others seem just practical in nature (although one can argue that papal universal jurisdiction is more practical, but I digress).

bottom line is that it won't happen. Orthodox lack nothing, so there is no union or compromise. but our baptismal fonts and chrism jars are always open and waiting.

as far as the second link goes, humility has nothing to do with it. the "sister Church/two lungs who desire union" approach is just false. we cannot have an honest dialogue with Rome unless we are being honest. they are outside of the Church. they must return.

 

[buzuxi02]

We've been seperated for centuries now, those centuries have created further divides.. No, a reunion will not reverse course and bring back the christian Roman Empire to europe, just like a union of sunni and shiites won't convert us to them. As much as ecumenists believe in witchcraft in that rome is one end of the extension cord and Orthodoxy the other end and to get the electricity flowing we need to be plugged into each other, is nonsense. The real threat is our cultures which we helped create by supporting the many judas iscariots within our ranks.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Man, it must just be me, buz, but this post is either too cryptic or beyond me...???

We've been seperated for centuries now, those centuries have created further divides.. No, a reunion will not reverse course and bring back the christisn Roman Empire to europe, just like a union of sunni and shiites won't convert us to them. As much as ecumenistsl believe in witchcraft, that rome is one end of the extension cord and Orthodoxy the other end and to get the electricity flowing we need to be plugged into each other, is nonsense. The real threat is our cultures which we helped create by supporting the many judas iscariots within our ranks.

 

[prodromos]

Regarding the agreed statement on the filioque by North American bishops plus the two or three well known bishops outside of the US, their views have been politely ignored by Orthodoxy at large. For the Eastern Orthodox Church in the East, the position on the heretical nature of the filioque in the Symbol of Faith has not changed one iota.. Eventually, the North American bishops will fall back in line with Orthodox teaching on this issue.

 

[buzuxi02]

Man, it must just be me, buz, but this post is either too cryptic or beyond me...???

Most who are adamant on reunion basically want it because they are under the impressions that it will return Europe back to their roots. Ive even seen it mentioned in many of the writings.

They truly believe that if unity happens and theres some big fancy concelebratory liturgy, that the momentum of such an event and the publicity it generates will somehow miraculously transform Europe back to its religious roots, and possibly even a large conversion of muslims will ensue.

What do you think they mean when they say how the great schism is a tragedy that has hampered the preaching of the gospel. How its a 'scandal' to the world etc. They believe union is a magical potion. This is evident in the second article posted:

I noted how it affects the Great Commission and how our relationship with Rome is part of that larger picture (for a unified front between these truly-mega-churches would give strength in spreading the Gospel).

How does it effect the great commission, where has he noted these effects? Why would muslims, Buddhists, and Shintoists all of a sudden be more receptive to the gospel? Will such an act impress the Chinese government so much that they will allow us inside their nation to convert them without persecution? And why would secular westerners be so moved by such an event that they would repent?

Here is an article on reunification, the very first sentence of the author is that it may help stem the rise of Islam in Europe! First off, why is Christianity impotent against islam now? And once you have your answer (think muslim immigration and those secular sympathisers who enable it). So how would adding the pope's and patriarchs names' to each others diptychs stop muslim immigration???? They are so desperate to rescue their culture that has retreated from them that all that's left is hope, the hope of alchemy and witchcraft.

Catholic, Greek Orthodox reunification could be on the horizon - Wilmington Conservative | Examiner.com

 

[InnerPhyre]

"no serious observer today believes that, theologically, the filioque (the belief, expressed in the Nicene Creed, that the Holy Spirit proceeds “from the Father and the Son [filioque in Latin]) is a church-dividing issue. "

This is part of the mentality that will ensure that East and West are never in communion again. It's the attitude that says "The Pope says that firemen and policemen can go to Saturday evening vigil mass because they can't go to church on Sunday. That means that all of us can do it!" and you have huge droves of Catholics who don't bother getting up for mass on Sunday anymore because they can just go Saturday night.

A few Orthodox bishops say that we might be able to work around the problems with the Filioque and suddenly "no serious observer today believes that" it's a problem. This is part of the Roman Catholic mindset that says you need only follow the bare minimum. It says that a bit of economia given to a few must immediately be a loophole for the many. This is why extraordinary ministers of the Eucharist have become incredibly ordinary and it's why they now only have to fast for about 15 minutes before they go to mass on Sunday.

It's all part of the exact same sickness within their theology.

 

[GregConstantine]

"This is why extraordinary ministers of the Eucharist have become incredibly ordinary and it's why they now only have to fast for about 15 minutes before they go to mass on Sunday."

I went to Easter Vigil at a Roman Catholic Church with my family last year. Before the vigil/mass began, I saw lay people, men and women (mostly women) very casually walking around the altar area getting ready for the service. I asked my mom if that happened when she was growing up and she said absolutely not.
Its very strange to me that they have these "extraordinary ministers" of the Eucharist. I tried to figure out why by observing what they did during the Mass, the only thing I could think of was they had them for the sake of expediency, getting as many people up and back to their pews as quickly as possible.
I grew up seeing these extraordinary ministers, as I grew up RC post vatican II.

Others have said it already, but modern RC is a very different faith from us Orthodox, although it does have many similarities superficially. It will take the RCC to repent and become Orthodox again, that is the only "reunification" possible.

 

[GregConstantine]

I forgot to mention, the vigil part was probably the most closest thing to Orthodoxy I've seen in the services of the Roman Catholic Church. The 1st part constited of a hymn that was chanted acapella called the Exaltunt, which basically laid out how Christ destroyed death on the cross and through His resurrection destroyed Hades and raised humanity from death. I thought, "wow, this is great, this is very Orthodox" then they started the Mass and the contrast became very glaring.

Exsultet (excerpts) Rejoice, heavenly powers! Sing choirs of angels! Exult, all creation around God's throne! Jesus Christ, our King is risen! Sound the trumpet of salvation!
Rejoice, O earth, in shining splendor, radiant in the brightness of your King! Christ has conquered! Glory fills you! Darkness vanishes for ever!
Rejoice, O Mother Church! Exult in glory! The risen Savior shines upon you! Let this place resound with joy, echoing the mighty song of all God's people!
For Christ has ransomed us with his blood, and paid for us the price of Adam's sin to our eternal Father!
This is night, when Christians everywhere, washed clean of sin and freed from all defilement, are restored to grace and grow together in holiness.
This is the night, when Jesus broke the chains of death and rose triumphant from the grave.
What good would life have been to us, had Christ not come as our Redeemer?
Father, how wonderful your care for us! How boundless your merciful love! To ransom a slave you gave away your Son.
The power of this holy night dispels all evil, washes guilt away, restores lost innocence, brings mourners joy; it casts out hatred, brings us peace, and humbles earthly pride.
Accept this Easter candle, a flame divided but undimmed, a pillar of fire that glows to the honor of God.
Let it mingle with the lights of heaven and continue bravely burning to dispel the darkness of this night! May the Morning Star which never sets find this flame still burning: Christ, that Morning Star, who came back from the dead, and shed his peaceful light on all mankind, your Son, who lives and reigns for ever and ever. R. Amen.
​

 

[ArmyMatt]

it almost seems that if Rome keeps repeating that we are close, that we will actually agree. it's funny that they will rehash how close we are, but then Pope Benedict XVI will remove his title "Patriarch of the West" (which is one we agree with), but keep "Vicar of Christ" (which is a big nogo).