A Catholic Wedding or No?

[Open Heart]

My son was raised Catholic, and so was his fiancee. Both now say they are not Catholic. They say they are "Christian" or "Nondenominational" and they are attending a Pentecostal church. In my son's case it is because basically he does not accept transubstantiation and the Mass bores him to tears. I know it sounds shallow, but he just does better with a more entertaining format. In her case, she fell in with a crowd that did the typical "Marianism is wrong, vereration of saints is wrong, there is no Pope in the Bible," etc.

Although I care about my faith, my attitude is that my son is a grown man who is capable now of making his own decisions. Of COURSE I'd love for them to be married in a Catholic church -- duh! And if not that, I'd love it to be any church. But the only time I'm going to start getting weird is if it's not a religious ceremony at all. My attitude is that whatever the bride wants is what we need to do.

Her parents are very devout. They are pushing for a Catholic wedding. What makes it extra significant is that she comes from a culture where the father is the head of the family and you do not question him, you simply obey.

It is putting her in an awkward situation. Part of her wants to assert herself as a non- Catholic. Part of her wants to be the good daughter -- after all, is a Catholic wedding really so bad?

But you can imagine the interesting scene it would be when the priest meets with them and says, "Your father has told me you are both baptized Catholics," and they say, "Well, yes, but we aren't Catholic anymore." That, I think, is the only honest presentation, and if they do give that honest answer, I just can't see that working out.

Has anyone ever had any experience with these sort of things?


OMGosh, and in the back of my head I'm thinking, "They may say they are no longer Catholic, but if they marry outside of the Church, they will not have a valid marriage." HELP!!!!!

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

My son was raised Catholic, and so was his fiancee. Both now say they are not Catholic. They say they are "Christian" or "Nondenominational" and they are attending a Pentecostal church. In my son's case it is because basically he does not accept transubstantiation and the Mass bores him to tears. I know it sounds shallow, but he just does better with a more entertaining format. In her case, she fell in with a crowd that did the typical "Marianism is wrong, vereration of saints is wrong, there is no Pope in the Bible," etc.

Although I care about my faith, my attitude is that my son is a grown man who is capable now of making his own decisions. Of COURSE I'd love for them to be married in a Catholic church -- duh! And if not that, I'd love it to be any church. But the only time I'm going to start getting weird is if it's not a religious ceremony at all. My attitude is that whatever the bride wants is what we need to do.

Her parents are very devout. They are pushing for a Catholic wedding. What makes it extra significant is that she comes from a culture where the father is the head of the family and you do not question him, you simply obey.

It is putting her in an awkward situation. Part of her wants to assert herself as a non- Catholic. Part of her wants to be the good daughter -- after all, is a Catholic wedding really so bad?

But you can imagine the interesting scene it would be when the priest meets with them and says, "Your father has told me you are both baptized Catholics," and they say, "Well, yes, but we aren't Catholic anymore." That, I think, is the only honest presentation, and if they do give that honest answer, I just can't see that working out.

Has anyone ever had any experience with these sort of things?


OMGosh, and in the back of my head I'm thinking, "They may say they are no longer Catholic, but if they marry outside of the Church, they will not have a valid marriage." HELP!!!!!

What is important is the commitment that the bride and groom have toward each other. If they marry in a Catholic church which is both you and the bride's family want, they are still making their vows before God. Being married in a Nuptial Mass is no better or worse than getting married in a Registry office for what needs to happen afterward. Whatever ceremony in whatever church, they have to live the married life. And once they are married, they are no longer under your control, and if the bride's father tried to continue his control of them, your son should stand up to him and tell him to back off because he is the head of his new family now, not the bride's father. Also, if the bride's father wants to continue in a reasonable relationship with his married daughter, he'd better get his brain together and develop a bit of tolerance.

If I was in that position with a son like yours, I would say that to avoid unnecessary conflict which would ruin their happy day, get married in the Catholic Church, and then once they are married, they can do what they like in terms of church attendance. It appears that the bride's family haven't disowned her yet, and your son is still in your will, so getting married in a way that will mollify both families will give a good start to the marriage.

For my first marriage, I would have been better off being married in an Anglican church than a Pentecostal one. That would have put me on better terms with the bride's family who were nominal Anglicans and who were highly suspicious of Pentecostals. I don't think they ever really approved of me, and my first wife deserted me after eight years and I think that pressure from her family might have been a factor as well as unfair gossip about her from some members and the possible criticism of her by an elder of the Charismatic church we attended, especially when we left it and joined an Anglican church.

I know that it is a decision that the young couple have to make, but seeing that her dad may be paying for the wedding, it would make good diplomatic sense to get married the way he wants it, as long as he doesn't think he can control their marriage as well.

You might think this is strange coming from a Pentecostal, but my second wife is Catholic educated, and she has been able to show me the positive side of the Church, and if my daughter wanted to be married in a Catholic Church, I would have no objection to it (actually she is engaged to a guy who isn't a Christian but he is a great guy and will make a wonderful son-in law. They don't intend to married in a church at all. My second wife and I were married by the Baptist pastor of the church I was going to at the time, but it was at a conference centre and not in a church.).

I hope that this is encouraging to you and gives you a bit of "ammunition" to help your son and his fiance see another side of the situation and that adopting a diplomatic stance concerning their marriage ceremony and the church where they are going to get married, may give a good start to their married life with the full support of both your families.

 

[Charles in Ky]

Remind them that if one is baptized Catholic they are Catholic. If they have left the Church they are simply non-practicing Catholics.

You might also remind them of the Commandment, honor thy mother and father.

As far as your son's spouse having an issue with Mary, you can remind her that Devotion to Mary and praying the Rosary is not one of the precepts of the church. One must accept Marian Dogma and accept the holy days of obligation honoring her.

One other thing I will mention is a very delicate way to approach the situation. The topic of regret. There is always the possibility that when this couples' parents have passed on, that there will be regret in not following their wishes. I say it is a delicate thing to bring up because it can be taken as an attempt to put a guilt trip on them.

If you choose to take this approach regarding regret, just tell them it is the advice of someone you met on a forum who has a personal view that the day regrets start coming to mind on a daily basis, that's the day you start dying.

Hope this helps. That's all I got.

God bless,
Charles

 

[RadiantGrace]

My son was raised Catholic, and so was his fiancee. Both now say they are not Catholic. They say they are "Christian" or "Nondenominational" and they are attending a Pentecostal church. In my son's case it is because basically he does not accept transubstantiation and the Mass bores him to tears. I know it sounds shallow, but he just does better with a more entertaining format. In her case, she fell in with a crowd that did the typical "Marianism is wrong, vereration of saints is wrong, there is no Pope in the Bible," etc.

That denomination is about creating entertainment. They appeal to emotions and senses. The problem is that it wears off.

You can't control your adult child. You can open your front door and let your cat run and play outside, but you can't force it to return. These kids have been fooled by a really messed up sect. Christ wandered in the desert for forty days. Sometimes God allows us to wander. Pray for them.

Be happy at least that they are getting married.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

That denomination is about creating entertainment. They appeal to emotions and senses. The problem is that it wears off.

I don't mean to debate on this advice forum, but I do have to make a comment about this. I was a Pentecostal for 12 years from 1966-1978, after that, although I fellowshiped with Anglican, Baptist, and now a Presbyterian church, I have not abandoned my Pentecostal theology. I still believe in tongues, prophecy and healing, the importance of preaching the gospel, loving the Bible, following Jesus, preaching repentance, and the need for personal holiness, which the majority of Pentecostals do.

Tell me, now that I have been that way for 50 years now and am 70 years of age and still love worshiping God the Pentecostal way, when do you think it will wear off?

 

[SaNcTaMaRiA]

This thread is really no place to argue theology. Probably should try to keep it focused on the OP.

As for the OP it is a hard situation indeed. I hate to be a broken record but I would advise your son and his fiance to pray, pray some more, and then pray some more. Listen to what God is telling them. Discernment of these kinds of things takes time and patience.

Down the road they can always get the marriage blessed by a priest if they come back to the church.

 

[DW1980]

Both now say they are not Catholic. They say they are "Christian" or "Nondenominational" and they are attending a Pentecostal church.

Hi

I realise that this is a Catholic thread, but surely it would make sense for them to be married in the Church they are members of?

I know I would rather be married by my own pastor than a priest I don't really know, or in another denomination.

A lot of Churches can be very flexible on the arrangements for a ceremony. If the priest in question is known to the couple, would he be able to offer a prayer for the couple at the wedding? That might be a nice way to bring Catholicism into the ceremony, which might be nice for the brides family, while still respecting the faith of the couple themselves.

 

[MoonlessNight]

This is definitely something that you want to discuss with a priest. I'm not really sure what the practice is on this issue. What makes things complicated is that strictly speaking, marriage is not a sacrament administered by the priest but rather by the couple (this is part of why non-Catholic marriages can still be valid). The priest is just the witness. So I don't know that it's strictly speaking required that a couple be Catholic to be married by a priest. I would suspect that it isn't, but I'm not sure.

That being said, this is definitely an issue where scandal is relevant. That is, if the marriage is to take place in a Catholic church with the blessing of a priest, the implication is that the couple is in good standing with the Church. If they are not, this could cause others to sin by believing that being in union with the Church is unimportant. It is similar to how while taking the Eucharist is only a cause of scandal if the recipient is publicly involved with mortal sin (even though it would be sinful in any case that the recipient is in a state of mortal sin... though keep in mind here that I'm not claiming that anything about the marriage would be sinful; I'm only drawing connections to more common examples of scandal). Due to the threat of scandal, I think it would be unlikely that a marriage could occur within an actual Church, or within an actual service. But it might be present for a Catholic priest to be present at a marriage which occurs elsewhere, and to grant some form of blessing.

Again, this is really something you'd have to sort out with an actual priest.

 

[Phil 1:21]

I can't imagine any Catholic priest agreeing to marry a couple, both of whom have left the RCC. As far as the families are concerned, they need to ask themselves one question: Is it more important that my child has given his/her life to Christ or that they attend the church of my preference? Perhaps it's not the children who need to pray for discernment, but the parents.

 

[MoonlessNight]

I can't imagine any Catholic priest agreeing to marry a couple, both of whom have left the RCC. As far as the families are concerned, they need to ask themselves one question: Is it more important that my child has given his/her life to Christ or that they attend the church of my preference? Perhaps it's not the children who need to pray for discernment, but the parents.

Considering that only the Catholic Church is the only true Church of Christ, the issue is about a little more than whether the children are going to the church "of their preference."

 

[Phil 1:21]

Considering that only the Catholic Church is the only true Church of Christ, the issue is about a little more than whether the children are going to the church "of their preference."

If you truly believe that, than I could see how for you the matter would be so.

 

[Charles in Ky]

Hi

I realise that this is a Catholic thread, but surely it would make sense for them to be married in the Church they are members of?

Of course they should be married in the Church they're members of.

In this case that would be the Roman Catholic Church.

There are no loopholes. There is no wiggle room. The OP stated that they were raised Catholic. They were Baptized Catholic. They were Confirmed Catholic. They received the sacraments of Holy Communion and Reconciliation as well.

Catholics who have stopped going to Mass are in a state of mortal sin. It is a grave matter.

Suggesting anything other than they find a priest and get their priorities in order is to lead them further into sin.

I don't think it is your intention to do that but in fact, that would be the fruits of such a suggestion that they should be married outside of the Catholic Church.

 

[Charles in Ky]

I can't imagine any Catholic priest agreeing to marry a couple, both of whom have left the RCC. As far as the families are concerned, they need to ask themselves one question: Is it more important that my child has given his/her life to Christ or that they attend the church of my preference? Perhaps it's not the children who need to pray for discernment, but the parents.

You say that as if they cannot give their life to Christ in the Catholic Church.

And no it is not a matter of the preference of the parents. It is a matter of two Catholics leaving the Church.

A non-catholic Christians simply cannot grasp the gravity of such a situation.

 

[DW1980]

Of course they should be married in the Church they're members of.

In this case that would be the Roman Catholic Church.

There are no loopholes. There is no wiggle room. The OP stated that they were raised Catholic. They were Baptized Catholic. They were Confirmed Catholic. They received the sacraments of Holy Communion and Reconciliation as well.

Catholics who have stopped going to Mass are in a state of mortal sin. It is a grave matter.

Suggesting anything other than they find a priest and get their priorities in order is to lead them further into sin.

I don't think it is your intention to do that but in fact, that would be the fruits of such a suggestion that they should be married outside of the Catholic Church.

Hi

Of course it's not my intention to lead anyone into sin!

I don't know too much about Catholicism but it seems you're suggesting there's no way out? I know lots of churches allow you to be members of other churches, or, assume you have given up your membership when you join a different church. I'm unsure what the Catholic Church does in that situation which would seem to be the case here. (Since they state they are not Catholics but Pentecostals)

The fact that they're now at a different church suggests they don't believe they're sinning by doing so. So my answer was an attempt at a compromise that would be meaningful to the couple and the brides family. That's all I intended.

 

[Phil 1:21]

You say that as if they cannot give their life to Christ in the Catholic Church.

I never made any such implication.

And no it is not a matter of the preference of the parents. It is a matter of two Catholics leaving the Church.

I thought the OP was regarding where two people choose to get married. That is the topic, no? Whether to accept them having their wedding at the church of their choice or try to influence them to have it in a Catholic church?

If the topic is whether to accept them attending another church or try to influence them to return to the RCC, then that's kind of another topic. In which case, honestly, my answer remains the same.

 

[Charles in Ky]

If you truly believe that, than I could see how for you the matter would be so.

It's quite easy to believe that. Christ told Peter that he was to be the Rock on which His Church would be built. Christ did not say churches.

The followers of Christ where initially referred to as brethren. Over time they were then referred to as his disciples. As the Faith spread, we were called Catholics. The Greek word for Universal.

All Christians were Catholics for quite some time. Then came various Schisms with sects leaving the Church.

That said, the question for those who are not Catholic, was your church started by Jesus Christ ? Or was it started by a man or men who decided what they wanted Church to be ?

All of this is pertinent to the OP. This young couple was raised Catholic and any advice other than telling them to see a priest, reconcile and accept they are members of the Catholic Church, and then be married in the Church, is to lead them away from the Church.

Jesus Christ instituted the sacrament of the Eucharist on the night of the Last Supper. Why would anyone who calls him or herself a Christian want to lead someone outside of the Church and away from the Most Blessed Sacrament ?

All one has to do is pick up a Bible with the Words of Christ in red. It's all right there.

 

[Charles in Ky]

Hi

Of course it's not my intention to lead anyone into sin!

I don't know too much about Catholicism but it seems you're suggesting there's no way out? I know lots of churches allow you to be members of other churches, or, assume you have given up your membership when you join a different church. I'm unsure what the Catholic Church does in that situation which would seem to be the case here. (Since they state they are not Catholics but Pentecostals)

The fact that they're now at a different church suggests they don't believe they're sinning by doing so. So my answer was an attempt at a compromise that would be meaningful to the couple and the brides family. That's all I intended.

I did not intend to infer that anyone is leading someone into sin intentionally.

But one simply cannot offer sound advice on this matter unless they have a full understanding of what the Catholic Church has taught throughout the centuries.

Sadly, since the II Vatican Council, Catholic catechesis has been so watered down that it is no wonder those raised Catholic don't see the issue with leaving the Church as long as they still consider themselves Christians. Are they still Christians ? Probably so. But that does not change the fact that they are cheating themselves out of The Graces and benefits of receiving the sacraments.

 

[Charles in Ky]

I never made any such implication.

I thought the OP was regarding where two people choose to get married. That is the topic, no? Whether to accept them having their wedding at the church of their choice or try to influence them to have it in a Catholic church?

If the topic is whether to accept them attending another church or try to influence them to return to the RCC, then that's kind of another topic. In which case, honestly, my answer remains the same.

Noted, but Catholic parents are bound to insist they are married in the Catholic Church. They simply cannot do otherwise and still call themselves Catholic. That's another thing these children should be made aware of.

The true practice of Roman Catholicism is not fun. The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass in it's true/codified forum, the Gregorian Rite, is the most reverent form of worship that we can assist in. Sorry, but just because the OP's son says the Mass bores him is not an excuse to leave the Church.

This modern day phenomen a Roman Catholics reaching adulthood and then following their conscience rather than the teachings of the Church as to which path/denomination and that they want to live as Christians is due to the lack of solid catechesis and frankly, the total about-face resulting from the introduction of the Novus Ordo Missae.

I do not know the father of the Bride. But going by the description of him in the OP, he seems to be orthodox and has a firm grasp on the practice of Catholicism.

No offense intended, but in my opinion it is him who these two children should be guided by. Not by those who know nothing of the Church's teachings in regards to this issue.

 

[Phil 1:21]

It's quite easy to believe that. Christ told Peter that he was to be the Rock on which His Church would be built. Christ did not say churches.

The followers of Christ where initially referred to as brethren. Over time they were then referred to as his disciples. As the Faith spread, we were called Catholics. The Greek word for Universal.

All Christians were Catholics for quite some time. Then came various Schisms with sects leaving the Church.

That said, the question for those who are not Catholic, was your church started by Jesus Christ ? Or was it started by a man or men who decided what they wanted Church to be ?

All of this is pertinent to the OP. This young couple was raised Catholic and any advice other than telling them to see a priest, reconcile and accept they are members of the Catholic Church, and then be married in the Church, is to lead them away from the Church.

Jesus Christ instituted the sacrament of the Eucharist on the night of the Last Supper. Why would anyone who calls him or herself a Christian want to lead someone outside of the Church and away from the Most Blessed Sacrament ?

All one has to do is pick up a Bible with the Words of Christ in red. It's all right there.

Noted, but Catholic parents are bound to insist they are married in the Catholic Church. They simply cannot do otherwise and still call themselves Catholic. That's another thing these children should be made aware of.

The true practice of Roman Catholicism is not fun. The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass in it's true/codified forum, the Gregorian Rite, is the most reverent form of worship that we can assist in. Sorry, but just because the OP's son says the Mass bores him is not an excuse to leave the Church.

This modern day phenomen a Roman Catholics reaching adulthood and then following their conscience rather than the teachings of the Church as to which path/denomination and that they want to live as Christians is due to the lack of solid catechesis and frankly, the total about-face resulting from the introduction of the Novus Ordo Missae.

I do not know the father of the Bride. But going by the description of him in the OP, he seems to be orthodox and has a firm grasp on the practice of Catholicism.

No offense intended, but in my opinion it is him who these two children should be guided by. Not by those who know nothing of the Church's teachings in regards to this issue.

I appreciate your responses, and of course, I respect your right to your opinion. But this is not the subforum for me to debate theology. Thank you again.

 

[Charles in Ky]

I appreciate your responses, and of course, I respect your right to your opinion. But this is not the subforum for me to debate theology. Thank you again.

Thank you as well.

God bless,
Charles