A Catholic Sabbath, Sunday.

BobRyan

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In Romans 14:5, the Apostle Paul writes, "One man esteems one day as better than another, while another man esteems all days alike. Let every one be fully convinced in his own mind."

From a Catholic perspective, this passage is understood to mean that there is no commandment in the New Testament that obligates Christians to observe a particular day as holy, such as the Sabbath.

I guess we both agree that Pope John Paul II's encyclical total rejects that idea.

And Rom 14 does not mention the weekly Sabbath at all.

And Gal 4 is very specific that observing even one pagan holy day is to be condemned - so that means that the days being defended in Rom 14 do not include the observance of pagan holy days.

So then in Rom 14 we have the annual holy days of Lev 23 in view - for the statement "one man observes one day above the others while another man observes them all". There is no "another man observes no day at all" in Rom 14.
 
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Yekcidmij

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I guess we both agree that Pope John Paul II's encyclical total rejects that idea.

And Rom 14 does not mention the weekly Sabbath at all.

And Gal 4 is very specific that observing even one pagan holy day is to be condemned - so that means that the days being defended in Rom 14 do not include the observance of pagan holy days.

So then in Rom 14 we have the annual holy days of Lev 23 in view - for the statement "one man observes one day above the others while another man observes them all". There is no "another man observes no day at all" in Rom 14.

Is there anything in Rom 14 itself to distinguish between "high holy sabbaths" and "ordinary weekly sabbaths?" It looks to me like there's not.
 
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BobRyan

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Is there anything in Rom 14 itself to distinguish between "high holy sabbaths" and "ordinary weekly sabbaths?" It looks to me like there's not.
Rom 14 does not mention "sabbath's" or the "weekly Sabbath" at all.

But it refers to Bible approved holy days. And the only place we have such a list - is in Lev 23.

Meanwhile Gal 4 reminds us that observing even one pagan holy day - is to be condemned.

Rom 14 allows for keeping one or keeping all of the Bible approved annual holy days of Lev 23.

Meanwhile Is 66:23 reminds us that for all eternity after the cross in the new earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL mankind come before Me to worship" -- since that weekly Sabbath "was made for mankind" Mark 2:27

Heb 10:4-12 ends animal sacrifice and offering - and of the holy days of Lev 23 all but one (the weekly Sabbath) were given in animal sacrifice and offering as their only form of liturgy. No wonder "There remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God" Heb 4.

No wonder that for all eternity after the cross - in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship" Is 66:23
 
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DamianWarS

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Maybe so yet my point still stands, Sunday is not, nor ever has been, the 7th day Sabbath...
the biblical concept of the 7th day as it pertains to creation, the law and to NT revelation no doubt goes beyond a mere day. The creation account is a salvation metaphor (2 Cor 4:6) where light is spoken into darkness starting a work and when complete ushers in rest. It's hard not to spiritualize that. We are the ones who lived in darkness until light was spoken into us and started a work of Christ that when complete will user in his rest. (James 1:4)

Looking at creation the 7th day is the antithesis to everything before light was spoken with contrasts like dark/light (a huge hint to the spiritual qualities), empty/full, incomplete/complete, death/life, rest/chaos, etc... All these can directly parallel salvation and redemption concepts like lost/found, perish/eternal life, unsaved/saved, etc... So indeed the 7th day is the 7th day but echos something far beyond a mere day.

With the benefits of Christ, everything tends to get packaged together, so Christ offers us a rest, the same rest that the 7th-day points to, and Christ finalizes this with his resurrection on the Sunday. The Sabbath day does not change, but the release of its rest changes how we approach the method, once only obtainable through the law now obtainable through Christ. That celebration is on Sunday, the day of Christ's resurrection, the day this rest was first released to all, and factions of the Church have chosen to call this the Christian Sabbath. To me, I think this is poorly taught in the Church and there is widespread confusion about the day not to mention a rename is not biblical warranted. I think it is more responsible to keep the Sabbath the 7th day and keep Sunday the Lord's day to show this new celebration.

Worship on any day of the week is always good, if you choose to worship on the Jewish Sabbath through rest then this is a good thing, especially when motivated with reaching Jewish people which to me is the highest praise that can be given to God, by sharing his glory to others. But if you choose to worship on Sunday this too is a good thing. Worship however should not be looked at as event-driven but rather infused into every aspect of our life through the formal parts but equally to the informal parts.
 
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Soyeong

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The Catholic Church teaches that the Sabbath, the seventh day of the week, should be kept holy as a day of rest and worship. This belief is based on the account in the Book of Genesis that states that God rested on the seventh day after creating the world (Genesis 2:2-3). The Ten Commandments also state that the Sabbath is to be kept holy (Exodus 20:8-11).

The Catholic Church also teaches that the Sabbath is a foreshadowing of the eternal rest that believers will enjoy in heaven (Hebrews 4:9-11). Additionally, Jesus himself and his followers are recorded as observing the Sabbath in the gospels (Luke 4:16, Mark 2:27, Luke 6:6-11).
Agreed. We should live in a way that testifies about God's eternal rest by continuing to keep the seventh day holy rather than a way that denies it.

However, the Catholic Church also teaches that the Sabbath laws were fulfilled by Jesus and that Christians are not bound by the strict observance of the Sabbath as it was understood in the Old Testament. Instead, Sunday, the day of the Lord's resurrection, is observed as the Christian Sabbath. This is based on scriptural passages such as Colossians 2:16-17, which state that Christ's death and resurrection fulfilled the requirements of the Sabbath and other Jewish holidays.

In summary, the Catholic Church teaches that the Sabbath is a day to be kept holy, but that the Sabbath laws have been fulfilled by Jesus and Sunday is observed as the Christian Sabbath.
NAS Greek Lexicon: pleroo
to fulfil, i.e. to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be, and God's promises (given through the prophets) to receive fulfilment

Christ fulfilled the Sabbath by teaching us how to correctly obey it by word and by example, which is in accordance with what you noted, and which has nothing to do with causing us to not be obligated to keep it holy. In Matthew 5:17-19, Jesus said that he came to fulfill the law in contrast with saying that he came not to abolish it and warned against reacting the least part of it or teaching others to relax it, so fulfilling the law should not be interpreted as meaning the same thing as abolishing it. In Galatians 6:2, bearing one another's burdens fulfills the Law of Christ, yet you do not consistently interpret that as causing us to no longer be bound by it.

In Mark 7:6-9, Jesus criticized the Pharisees as being hypocrites for setting aside the commands of God in order to establish their own traditions, so there is nothing wrong with someone choosing to follow their own tradition of worshiping on Sunday in addition to obeying God's command to keep the 7th day holy, but they should not hypocritically set aside God's command in order to establish their own tradition. Jesus rose on the Feast of Firstfruits as the firstfruits from the dead, so there is already a day that is rich with relevant symbolism that we can use to celebrate the resurrection of Jesus that is in accordance with what God has commanded, so there is no need whatsoever in order to set aside any of the commands of God in order to honor the resurrection.

In regard to Colossians 2:16, saying not to let anyone judge them leaves room for two possible scenarios:

1.) The Colossians were not keeping God's holy days, they were being judged by Jews for not keeping them, and Paul was encouraging the Colossians not to listen to them.

2.) The Colossians were keeping God's holy days, they were being judged by pagans because they were keeping them, and Paul was encouraging them not to let any man judge them and keep them from obeying God.

In Colossians 2:16-23, Paul described the people who were judging them as teaching human precepts and traditions, self-made religion, asceticism, and severity to the body, which means that they were being judged by pagans and that the second scenario is the case, which also means that it is ironic when people try to use these verses to justify their refusal to obey God.
 
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Soyeong

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To not eat meat sacrificed to idols is not fasting when one can eat meat that is not sacrificed. However if one is a guest and one's scruples restrict your eating then one could call it a fast. But this misses the point, which I reiterate below.

In the Catholic Church, Romans 14 is interpreted as a passage about how Christians should handle disagreements about matters of conscience, such as dietary laws and observance of certain holy days. The passage encourages Christians to respect the consciences of others and not to pass judgment on them, even if they do not agree with their choices. It also stresses the importance of loving one's neighbor and not causing them to stumble or be offended by one's actions. In this way, Romans 14 is seen as promoting unity and charity within the community of believers.
The topic of Romans 14 stated in the first verse is in regard to how to handle disputable matters of opinion, not in regard to whether followers of God should follow what God has commanded, so nothing in the chapter should be interpreted as teaching rebellion against what God has commanded. Human opinion must yield where God has given a clear command, so the disputable matters of opinion are in regard to matters in which God has given no command. For example, in Romans 14:2-3, they were judging and resenting each other over the issue of whether only vegetables should be eaten even though God gave no command to eat only vegetables. So Paul was not saying that we are free to commit. murder, idolatry, adultery, theft, break the Sabbath, or disobey any of God's other commands just as long as we are convinced in our own minds that it is ok to rebel against God, but rather that was only said in regard to disputable matters of opinion.

In Romans 14:5-6, it is speaking about eating or refraining from eating unto the Lord, so it is speaking about those who esteem certain days for fasting as a disputable matter of opinion. In the 1st century it had become a common practice to fast twice a week even though God gave no command to do that and people were judging and resenting each other over it (Luke 18:12). The reason why were are to keep the 7th day holy is not became man esteemed it as a matter of opinion, but because God rested on it, blessed it, made it only, and commanded His people to keep it holy, Furthermore, what is holy to God should not be profaned by man, so we would still be obligated to keep the 7th day holy even if God have never commanded anyone to do that. As with Colossians 2:16-17, it is important not to make the mistake something that was only said against the opinions or teachings of men as being against obeying the commands of God.
 
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Soyeong

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the biblical concept of the 7th day as it pertains to creation, the law and to NT revelation no doubt goes beyond a mere day. The creation account is a salvation metaphor (2 Cor 4:6) where light is spoken into darkness starting a work and when complete ushers in rest. It's hard not to spiritualize that. We are the ones who lived in darkness until light was spoken into us and started a work of Christ that when complete will user in his rest. (James 1:4)

Looking at creation the 7th day is the antithesis to everything before light was spoken with contrasts like dark/light (a huge hint to the spiritual qualities), empty/full, incomplete/complete, death/life, rest/chaos, etc... All these can directly parallel salvation and redemption concepts like lost/found, perish/eternal life, unsaved/saved, etc... So indeed the 7th day is the 7th day but echos something far beyond a mere day.
I agree that there is more to the Sabbath than just a day, so we believe in the truth of those things, then we should live in a way that testifies about it by continuing to keep the 7th day holy. In Hebrew 3-4, they did not enter into God's rest because of their disobedience, in Ezekiel 20:13, it specifically mentions that they greatly profaned God's Sabbaths, and in Hebrews 4:11, we should strive to enter into God's rest so that no one may fall away by the same sort of disobedience, so entering into God's rest should not be used to justify the same sort of disobedience.

With the benefits of Christ, everything tends to get packaged together, so Christ offers us a rest, the same rest that the 7th-day points to, and Christ finalizes this with his resurrection on the Sunday. The Sabbath day does not change, but the release of its rest changes how we approach the method, once only obtainable through the law now obtainable through Christ. That celebration is on Sunday, the day of Christ's resurrection, the day this rest was first released to all, and factions of the Church have chosen to call this the Christian Sabbath. To me, I think this is poorly taught in the Church and there is widespread confusion about the day not to mention a rename is not biblical warranted. I think it is more responsible to keep the Sabbath the 7th day and keep Sunday the Lord's day to show this new celebration.
Jesus set a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to God's law, including keeping the 7th day holy, and in Matthew 11:28-30, he invited us to come to him for rest and to learn from him, not to come to him for rest instead of learning from him. By Jesus saying that we would find rest for our souls, he was referencing Jeremiah 6:16-19, where God's law is described as the good way where we will find rest for our souls. God's law is God's word and Jesus is God's word made flesh, so what is attainable through embodying God's word through faith should not be considered to be something different than what is attainable through faith in the one who is the embodiment of God's word.

Nowhere in the Bible does it instruct us to celebrate the resurrection of Jesus on Sunday instead of obeying God's command to keep the 7th day holy or instead of obeying any of God's other commands. In Mark 7:6-9, Jesus criticized the Pharisees as being hypocrites for setting aside the commands of God in order to establish their own traditions, so people are free to follow their own tradition of celebrating the resurrection on Sunday in addition to obeying God's command to keep the 7th day holy, but they should not hypocritically do that instead of obeying God's command. Jesus rose on the Feast of Firstfruits as the firstfruist from the dead, so there is already a day rich with relevant symbolism that we can use to celebrate his resurrection that is in accordance with what God has instructed, so there is no need to hypocritically set aside any of the commands of God in order to do that.

Worship on any day of the week is always good, if you choose to worship on the Jewish Sabbath through rest then this is a good thing, especially when motivated with reaching Jewish people which to me is the highest praise that can be given to God, by sharing his glory to others. But if you choose to worship on Sunday this too is a good thing. Worship however should not be looked at as event-driven but rather infused into every aspect of our life through the formal parts but equally to the informal parts.
The Israelites worshipped God on every day, which included keeping the 7th day holy, so the commanded to keep the 7th day holy is not the command to worship on the 7th day. Furthermore, it is impossible to worship God by disobeying what He has commanded. God made the Sabbath holy in Genesis 2:3 long before there were any Jews, so it is God's Sabbath, not the Jewish Sabbath. We should recognize that God has sanctified certain times and worship God by living in a way that testifies about this truth.
 
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DamianWarS

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I agree that there is more to the Sabbath than just a day, so we believe in the truth of those things, then we should live in a way that testifies about it by continuing to keep the 7th day holy. In Hebrew 3-4, they did not enter into God's rest because of their disobedience, in Ezekiel 20:13, it specifically mentions that they greatly profaned God's Sabbaths, and in Hebrews 4:11, we should strive to enter into God's rest so that no one may fall away by the same sort of disobedience, so entering into God's rest should not be used to justify the same sort of disobedience.

The Sabbath has far deeper meaning than the ordinances of the law or the superficial days of the week. The 4th commandment echos depth of the 7th day so that it is not forgotten, the meaning of the 7th day is the completed work of Christ upon our own lives as we once started in darkness and light was spoken into our lives starting a work that when complete will usher in rest. Christ is at work in our lives (Phil 1:6) and when that work is complete it will usher in his rest. When I read creation, when I read the law this is what I see. commandments for specific actions are covenant based and it is short-sighted to only see the command and that which it points to has come so we look to Christ to seek its fulfillment after all he is Lord of the Sabbath so he is the one with authority to give the rest of the Sabbath as he was there when it was made.

the first chapter of Isaiah shows us that keeping the letter of the law became hateful for God and with very strong and descriptive language. v16-17 God speaks of his desires "Wash yourselves and make yourselves clean. Stop doing the evil things I see you do. Stop doing wrong! Learn to do good. Be fair to other people. Punish those who hurt others. Help the orphans. Stand up for the rights of widows.” Despite that they were keeping law God rejects their actions and puts caring for others over the lettter of the law. So there is a such thing as keeping the letter while missing the whole point just as there is a such thing as not keeping the letter yet it is still worthy. Jesus himself says that doing good is lawful on the Sabbath. "doing good" of course needs to be defined in a biblical context and we are not just talking about qualitative goodness but a moral goodness as it relates to God. The 4th commandment is not a moral law as it is not an action that is motivated to help others through God. Christ asserts that we would rescue a fallen sheep on the Sabbath (Mat 12) which leads him to conclude that doing good is lawful, yet we can only see physical sheep when he says this? (or healing withered hands) Sheep is one of the strongest symbols used in the bible and certainly during the Sabbath if we are tasked with rescuing sheep then we have a lot of lawful work to be done.

spreading the message of Christ far and wide is the most laudable thing we can be doing. On the Sabbath doing work motivated to spread his glory is good and is lawful. I'm not talking about preaching or professional clergy, I'm talking about looking around you and seeing who is stuck in pits and what the next step you can do at that moment to get them out of that pit. I refrain from dichotomizing work into secular/holy. All work serving Christ is holy, all work against Christ is not, I choose the motivation of the former regardless of what I am doing. Maybe that's mowing someone's lawn (on the Sabbath) or helping someone pay their taxes (on the Sabbath), or working at Mcdonald's (on the Sabbath). So long as our motivation is to show and spread the name of Christ (morally and upright) so that others may follow him our actions cannot be called unlawful. "doing good" in the way Christ describes in Mat 17 I use as a heuristic to living in all my actions. Or as Paul says in 1 Cor 9:23 "I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings."

It's not about replacing a day with another and if that's your take away then you've missed the point. It's about doing it all for the sake of the gospel regardless of how you label the days of the week. Since the 4th commandment is ultimately about a salvation message then how could this be against it? it in fact is its purpose and I can't think of a better way to keep it holy.
 
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Soyeong

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The Sabbath has far deeper meaning than the ordinances of the law or the superficial days of the week. The 4th commandment echos depth of the 7th day so that it is not forgotten, the meaning of the 7th day is the completed work of Christ upon our own lives as we once started in darkness and light was spoken into our lives starting a work that when complete will usher in rest. Christ is at work in our lives (Phil 1:6) and when that work is complete it will usher in his rest. When I read creation, when I read the law this is what I see. commandments for specific actions are covenant based and it is short-sighted to only see the command and that which it points to has come so we look to Christ to seek its fulfillment after all he is Lord of the Sabbath so he is the one with authority to give the rest of the Sabbath as he was there when it was made.
All of God's laws have deeper meanings because they are all intended to teach us how to act in accordance spiritual principles that are aspects of God's nature. For example, in 1 Peter 1:16, we are told to be holy for God is holy, which is a quote from Leviticus where God was giving instructions for how to do that, which includes keeping God's Sabbaths holy (Leviticus 19:2-3), so these instructions are intended to teach us about a deeper spiritual principle of holiness that will lead us to take actions that are examples of that principle in accordance with what God's law instructs even in situations where it does not specifically address. If someone thought that they understood the spiritual principle of love, so they no longer needed physically obey the commands to help the widow, the poor, and the orphan, then they would be missing the whole point, so correctly understanding a spiritual principle will never lead us away from taking physical actions that are examples of that principle.

The manner in which someone lives testifies about what they believe to be true about the nature of who God is, so by following God's instructions for how to be holy as He is holy, they are living in a manner that is expressing, experiencing, loving, believing in, and testifying about God's holiness, but by someone choosing not to follow those instructions, they are living in a manner that is bearing false witness against God by testifying that the God that they follow is not. If we believe that God made the world in six days, rested on the 7th, blessed it, made it holy, that God is holy, that He sanctifies us, that He saves His people out of slavery, and that Jesus is Lord of the Sabbaths, then we will live I a way that testifies about these truths by keeping the Sabbath holy rather than a way that denies them by not keeping it holy. Our wisdom should not exceed our deeds. When something is commanded as part of a covenant in order to teach us about how to act in accordance with our nature, then our primary concern should be whether we should seek by faith the live in a manner that accurately testifies about the nature of who God is and what He has done, not whether we happen to be part of that covenant.

the first chapter of Isaiah shows us that keeping the letter of the law became hateful for God and with very strong and descriptive language. v16-17 God speaks of his desires "Wash yourselves and make yourselves clean. Stop doing the evil things I see you do. Stop doing wrong! Learn to do good. Be fair to other people. Punish those who hurt others. Help the orphans. Stand up for the rights of widows.” Despite that they were keeping law God rejects their actions and puts caring for others over the lettter of the law. So there is a such thing as keeping the letter while missing the whole point just as there is a such thing as not keeping the letter yet it is still worthy.
There are many verses where obeying God's law brings life, where the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey it, and where the New Covenant involves following it, yet in 2 Corinthians 3:6, the letter of the law leads to death, so there is something about following the letter of the law that is not correctly doing what God has instructed. On the other hand, if correctly doing what God has instructed leads to death, then God is misleading His people and should not be trusted to rightly guide us. In Isaiah 1, the problem was not that that they were doing things God commanded, but that they were doing those things while their hands were full of blood. Everything in Isaiah 1:16-17 is in accordance with God's law, not doing something other than it. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that tithing was something that they ought to be doing, but not while neglecting weightier matters of the law of justice, mercy, and faith, so I agree that someone obey God's law while missing the whole point, though that leads to death just as assuredly as refusing to obey it, so doing the weightier matters of the law does not mean that we should neglect doing what it instructs.

Jesus himself says that doing good is lawful on the Sabbath. "doing good" of course needs to be defined in a biblical context and we are not just talking about qualitative goodness but a moral goodness as it relates to God. The 4th commandment is not a moral law as it is not an action that is motivated to help others through God. Christ asserts that we would rescue a fallen sheep on the Sabbath (Mat 12) which leads him to conclude that doing good is lawful, yet we can only see physical sheep when he says this? (or healing withered hands) Sheep is one of the strongest symbols used in the bible and certainly during the Sabbath if we are tasked with rescuing sheep then we have a lot of lawful work to be done.
Some of God's laws appear to conflict with each other, such as with priests being commanded to rest on the Sabbath, but also being commanded to make offerings on the Sabbath (Numbers 28:9-10), however, it was not the case that they were forced to sin by breaking one of the two commands no matter what they chose to do, but that the lesser command was never intended to be understood as preventing the greater command from being obeyed. This is why Jesus said in Matthew 12:5-7 that priests who did their duties on the Sabbath were held innocent, why David and his men were held innocent, and why he defended his disciples as being innocent. This is also why it is lawful to rescue a fallen sheep on the Sabbath, to circumcise a baby boy on the 8th day if it happens to fall on the Sabbath, and so forth. Some Pharisees through that it was unlawful to do work on the Sabbath and that healing is works, therefore it is unlawful to heal on the Sabbath, however, we are also commanded to love our neighbor, and no command was intended to be understood as preventing the greatest two commands from being obeyed, which is why Jesus ruled that it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath. However, the fact that there are exceptions where following another command takes priority does not mean that we should not normally follow what God has commanded.

If morality were only in regard to our relationships with man and not in regard to our relationship with God, then it would be moral to commit idolatry, but rather morality is also in regard to our relationship with God, so the keeping the Sabbath holy is also a moral law. The Bible does not make the distinction of saying that some laws are moral laws while others are not and there is no example of disobedience to any of God's laws being considered to be moral. Rather, morality is in regard to what we ought to do and we ought to obey God, so all of God's laws are inherently moral laws. God has commanded to keep the Sabbath holy, so claiming that it is not a moral law is claiming to have greater moral knowledge than God.

spreading the message of Christ far and wide is the most laudable thing we can be doing. On the Sabbath doing work motivated to spread his glory is good and is lawful. I'm not talking about preaching or professional clergy, I'm talking about looking around you and seeing who is stuck in pits and what the next step you can do at that moment to get them out of that pit. I refrain from dichotomizing work into secular/holy. All work serving Christ is holy, all work against Christ is not, I choose the motivation of the former regardless of what I am doing. Maybe that's mowing someone's lawn (on the Sabbath) or helping someone pay their taxes (on the Sabbath), or working at Mcdonald's (on the Sabbath). So long as our motivation is to show and spread the name of Christ (morally and upright) so that others may follow him our actions cannot be called unlawful. "doing good" in the way Christ describes in Mat 17 I use as a heuristic to living in all my actions. Or as Paul says in 1 Cor 9:23 "I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings."
In Matthew 4:17-23, Jesus begins his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, and God's law is how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so teaching people to repent from breaking it is a central part of spreading the Gospel, which includes teaching people to repent from breaking the Sabbath (Exodus 20:8-11). Breaking God's law in order to spread the Gospel completely undermines it and is not serving Christ. Christ is the embodiment of God's word, so the way to spread the name of Christ is by embodying God's word in word and in deed.

It's not about replacing a day with another and if that's your take away then you've missed the point. It's about doing it all for the sake of the gospel regardless of how you label the days of the week. Since the 4th commandment is ultimately about a salvation message then how could this be against it? it in fact is its purpose and I can't think of a better way to keep it holy.
We can use our reasoning in order to get out of obeying all sorts of God's commands, so it comes down to whether we are going to learn on our own understanding of right and wrong or whether we are going to trust God with all of our heart to correctly divide between right and wrong through His law and he will make our paths straight (Proverbs 3:1-6).
 
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DamianWarS

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All of God's laws have deeper meanings because they are all intended to teach us how to act in accordance spiritual principles that are aspects of God's nature. For example, in 1 Peter 1:16, we are told to be holy for God is holy, which is a quote from Leviticus where God was giving instructions for how to do that, which includes keeping God's Sabbaths holy (Leviticus 19:2-3), so these instructions are intended to teach us about a deeper spiritual principle of holiness that will lead us to take actions that are examples of that principle in accordance with what God's law instructs even in situations where it does not specifically address. If someone thought that they understood the spiritual principle of love, so they no longer needed physically obey the commands to help the widow, the poor, and the orphan, then they would be missing the whole point, so correctly understanding a spiritual principle will never lead us away from taking physical actions that are examples of that principle.

The manner in which someone lives testifies about what they believe to be true about the nature of who God is, so by following God's instructions for how to be holy as He is holy, they are living in a manner that is expressing, experiencing, loving, believing in, and testifying about God's holiness, but by someone choosing not to follow those instructions, they are living in a manner that is bearing false witness against God by testifying that the God that they follow is not. If we believe that God made the world in six days, rested on the 7th, blessed it, made it holy, that God is holy, that He sanctifies us, that He saves His people out of slavery, and that Jesus is Lord of the Sabbaths, then we will live I a way that testifies about these truths by keeping the Sabbath holy rather than a way that denies them by not keeping it holy. Our wisdom should not exceed our deeds. When something is commanded as part of a covenant in order to teach us about how to act in accordance with our nature, then our primary concern should be whether we should seek by faith the live in a manner that accurately testifies about the nature of who God is and what He has done, not whether we happen to be part of that covenant.


There are many verses where obeying God's law brings life, where the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey it, and where the New Covenant involves following it, yet in 2 Corinthians 3:6, the letter of the law leads to death, so there is something about following the letter of the law that is not correctly doing what God has instructed. On the other hand, if correctly doing what God has instructed leads to death, then God is misleading His people and should not be trusted to rightly guide us. In Isaiah 1, the problem was not that that they were doing things God commanded, but that they were doing those things while their hands were full of blood. Everything in Isaiah 1:16-17 is in accordance with God's law, not doing something other than it. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that tithing was something that they ought to be doing, but not while neglecting weightier matters of the law of justice, mercy, and faith, so I agree that someone obey God's law while missing the whole point, though that leads to death just as assuredly as refusing to obey it, so doing the weightier matters of the law does not mean that we should neglect doing what it instructs.


Some of God's laws appear to conflict with each other, such as with priests being commanded to rest on the Sabbath, but also being commanded to make offerings on the Sabbath (Numbers 28:9-10), however, it was not the case that they were forced to sin by breaking one of the two commands no matter what they chose to do, but that the lesser command was never intended to be understood as preventing the greater command from being obeyed. This is why Jesus said in Matthew 12:5-7 that priests who did their duties on the Sabbath were held innocent, why David and his men were held innocent, and why he defended his disciples as being innocent. This is also why it is lawful to rescue a fallen sheep on the Sabbath, to circumcise a baby boy on the 8th day if it happens to fall on the Sabbath, and so forth. Some Pharisees through that it was unlawful to do work on the Sabbath and that healing is works, therefore it is unlawful to heal on the Sabbath, however, we are also commanded to love our neighbor, and no command was intended to be understood as preventing the greatest two commands from being obeyed, which is why Jesus ruled that it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath. However, the fact that there are exceptions where following another command takes priority does not mean that we should not normally follow what God has commanded.

If morality were only in regard to our relationships with man and not in regard to our relationship with God, then it would be moral to commit idolatry, but rather morality is also in regard to our relationship with God, so the keeping the Sabbath holy is also a moral law. The Bible does not make the distinction of saying that some laws are moral laws while others are not and there is no example of disobedience to any of God's laws being considered to be moral. Rather, morality is in regard to what we ought to do and we ought to obey God, so all of God's laws are inherently moral laws. God has commanded to keep the Sabbath holy, so claiming that it is not a moral law is claiming to have greater moral knowledge than God.


In Matthew 4:17-23, Jesus begins his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, and God's law is how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so teaching people to repent from breaking it is a central part of spreading the Gospel, which includes teaching people to repent from breaking the Sabbath (Exodus 20:8-11). Breaking God's law in order to spread the Gospel completely undermines it and is not serving Christ. Christ is the embodiment of God's word, so the way to spread the name of Christ is by embodying God's word in word and in deed.


We can use our reasoning in order to get out of obeying all sorts of God's commands, so it comes down to whether we are going to learn on our own understanding of right and wrong or whether we are going to trust God with all of our heart to correctly divide between right and wrong through His law and he will make our paths straight (Proverbs 3:1-6).
Christ tells us the two greatest commandments (which I'm sure you are aware of) and then says "On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets". What Christ reveals is that the laws and the prophets are based on fundamental constructs and that the laws (and prophets) are goal-driven back to those constructs. Christ reveals more of a heuristic of living than he does commandments. With this in mind, one can follow the letter but not keep the two greatest commandments thus their obedience is worthless. Jesus tells us we may rescue sheep on the Sabbath, he also tells us David was justified when he ate consecrated bread or the priests are justified when desecrating the sabbath. Christ uses this all as a segue that to say not just healing is lawful but that doing good is lawful.

with regard to the law the following can happen:
A. keeping the letter but still unlawful
B. desecrating the letter but still lawful
C. keeping the letter and still lawful

Christ's point is not how we keep the letter to be justified (option c) Christ's examples are all about when the letter is not kept yet the action is still lawful (option b). Isaiah 1 is an example of option A, keeping the letter yet unlawful, the law itself speaks to option c as the letter is the natural way of keeping the law but Christ addresses something deeper and speaks of a greater goal of the law.

Doing good is lawful on the Sabbath which is a version of the 2 greatest commandments just conflated into a single action of both loving God and neighbor at the same time. This is the practice of the 2 greatest commandments of actions that honor both and this is what Christ shows in his single action. I feel we have a fundamental difference in how we approach this. When I read this my takeaway is doing good is the better option so I'm motivated by doing good, not motivated at keeping the letter. it seems when you read this your takeaway is although there may be exceptions keeping the letter is the better option and you're motivated with keeping the letter.
 
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Soyeong

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Christ tells us the two greatest commandments (which I'm sure you are aware of) and then says "On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets". What Christ reveals is that the laws and the prophets are based on fundamental constructs and that the laws (and prophets) are goal-driven back to those constructs. Christ reveals more of a heuristic of living than he does commandments. With this in mind, one can follow the letter but not keep the two greatest commandments thus their obedience is worthless. Jesus tells us we may rescue sheep on the Sabbath, he also tells us David was justified when he ate consecrated bread or the priests are justified when desecrating the sabbath. Christ uses this all as a segue that to say not just healing is lawful but that doing good is lawful.

with regard to the law the following can happen:
A. keeping the letter but still unlawful
B. desecrating the letter but still lawful
C. keeping the letter and still lawful

Christ's point is not how we keep the letter to be justified (option c) Christ's examples are all about when the letter is not kept yet the action is still lawful (option b). Isaiah 1 is an example of option A, keeping the letter yet unlawful, the law itself speaks to option c as the letter is the natural way of keeping the law but Christ addresses something deeper and speaks of a greater goal of the law.

Doing good is lawful on the Sabbath which is a version of the 2 greatest commandments just conflated into a single action of both loving God and neighbor at the same time. This is the practice of the 2 greatest commandments of actions that honor both and this is what Christ shows in his single action. I feel we have a fundamental difference in how we approach this. When I read this my takeaway is doing good is the better option so I'm motivated by doing good, not motivated at keeping the letter. it seems when you read this your takeaway is although there may be exceptions keeping the letter is the better option and you're motivated with keeping the letter.
The gift of eternal life is the experience of knowing God and Jesus (John 17:3) and the goal of the law is to teach us how to have that experience through acting in accordance with aspects of His nature, which you referred to as fundamental constructs, and Jesus revealed this by living in sinless obedience to the law as the exact image of God's nature (Hebrews 1:3). The issue of how we should act in accordance with aspects of God's nature in general is different from the issue of how we should act in a situation where there are are mutually exclusive ways to act in accordance with aspects of God's nature by knowing what has priority. Correctly understanding an aspect of God's nature will never lead us away from following His instructions for how to act in accordance with that aspect of His nature while correctly understanding what has priority will guide us in situations where following God's instructions for how to act in accordance with one aspect of His nature means that we will not be able to follow His instructions for how to accordance with a different aspect of His nature. For example, correctly understanding God's holiness will never lead away from following His instructions for how to be holy as He is holy, but understanding priorities guides us in situations where we should act in accordance with God's love for His creation rather than in accordance with His holiness.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "keeping the letter" because if you mean "doing what God's law instructs" then there is the problem that the Bible says keeping the letter leads to death (2 Corinthians 2:3) while also saying that doing what God's law instructs leads to life while not doing that is what leads to death (Deuteronomy 30:15-20), so that would be interpreting the Bible in a manner that contradicts itself. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that tithing was something that they ought to be doing while not neglecting weightier matters of the law of justice, mercy, and faithfulness, so they had the appearance of obeying God's law, but were not really doing what it instructs because they were neglecting to express aspects of God's nature that it was given to teach us how to express, which is what I think "keeping the letter" means, and which is why it leads to death just as assuredly as not obeying what God's law instructs.

So someone can keep the letter while being unlawful by having the appearance of obeying God's law, but not really obeying it by neglecting its weightier matters that it was given to instruct, such as those in Isaiah 1, but keeping the letter is mutually exclusive with being lawful. If someone is obeying the command to love our neighbor as ourselves in a situation that it has priority over obeying a mutually exclusive command, then they are still acting lawfully. In Matthew 24:12, Jesus said that because of lawlessness the love of many will grow cold, so we can't love God and our neighbor apart from acting in accordance with God's instructions for how to do that. Jesus taught us both how to correctly obey what God's law instructs and how to have the right priorities.
 
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DamianWarS

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If someone is obeying the command to love our neighbor as ourselves in a situation that it has priority over obeying a mutually exclusive command, then they are still acting lawfully.
This is the area we put different attention to. Christ says doing good is lawful with the example of rescuing sheep, you seem unwilling to explore this outside the explicit examples.
 
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Soyeong

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This is the area we put different attention to. Christ says doing good is lawful with the example of rescuing sheep, you seem unwilling to explore this outside the explicit examples.
What about that do you think that I am unwilling to explore? We can't believe both that Jesus was correct that it is lawful to heal on the Sabbath and that the group of Pharisees were correct for thinking that it was unlawful for Jesus to heal on the Sabbath. Instances where something else has priority over that Sabbath does not show disregard for it, so a priest who did their duties would be held innocent of breaking the Sabbath, but if a priest did something like plowing a field for his own gain on the Sabbath, then he would be guilty of breaking it.
 
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DamianWarS

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What about that do you think that I am unwilling to explore? We can't believe both that Jesus was correct that it is lawful to heal on the Sabbath and that the group of Pharisees were correct for thinking that it was unlawful for Jesus to heal on the Sabbath. Instances where something else has priority over that Sabbath does not show disregard for it, so a priest who did their duties would be held innocent of breaking the Sabbath, but if a priest did something like plowing a field for his own gain on the Sabbath, then he would be guilty of breaking it.
you seem limited to the explicit examples of the text. Jesus uses pulling sheep out of pits as his prime example. What exactly do you think sheep mean? What does the "work" of pulling sheep out of pits look like? you stated an example of plowing a field, what if I plowed a field for my neighbor motivated to show that neighbor Christ? Is not the life of the neighbor of enough value that it redeems the act regardless of what day it was conducted on? Or is it that on the Sabbath sheep should be left in pits and pulled out the next day?
 
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