99.9999% of Christian's aren't saved

[pescador]

It's always a "red flag" warning to me when anyone who calls themselves a Christian -- part of the body of Christ -- sits in condemnation of virtually the entire rest of the body. Invariably, that person chooses a verse or two, completely out of context, to point out the failings of everyone else without examining themselves and seeing the greater sin they are committing.

1 Corinthians 12:12-13, "For just as the body is one and yet has many members, and all the members of the body—though many—are one body, so too is Christ. For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body. Whether Jews or Greeks or slaves or free, we were all made to drink of the one Spirit."

1 Corinthians 12:20-25, "So now there are many members, but one body. The eye cannot say to the hand, “I do not need you,” nor in turn can the head say to the foot, “I do not need you.” On the contrary, those members that seem to be weaker are essential, and those members we consider less honorable we clothe with greater honor, and our unpresentable members are clothed with dignity, but our presentable members do not need this. Instead, God has blended together the body, giving greater honor to the lesser member, so that there may be no division in the body, but the members may have mutual concern for one another"

Clearly, the premise of the OP is in direct contradiction to the truth in Christ.

 

[Carl Emerson]

1 Cor 11 suggests a severe consequence for dividing the Body of Christ in attitude...

28 But a person must examine himself, and in so doing he is to eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For the one who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not properly recognize the body. 30 For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number are asleep. 31 But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged.

 

[Gottservant]

Can I get an Amen?!


(Is anyone tired of reading posts like this?)

The truth is we are all saved differently.

Not understanding that God relates to us differently, makes it hard to come at the truth.

The Holy Spirit, on the other hand, embraces difference.

 

[timothyu]

Well now you're really into severe judgement! Why are you so interested in condemning virtually the entire body of Christ? Do you include yourself in this condemnation?

Can't help that the whole Bible is about following the will of God or perish. I have no idea where I'll stand but it's up to Him and not me.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Can't help that the whole Bible is about following the will of God or perish. I have no idea where I'll stand but it's up to Him and not me.

Can't help that the Whole Bible is about a Loving God wanting to eternally fellowship with an undeserving family.

 

[pescador]

Can't help that the whole Bible is about following the will of God or perish. I have no idea where I'll stand but it's up to Him and not me.

Really? Salvation by works? That's not what my Bible says. We are saved by God's grace, period.

Romans 5:15, "But the gracious gift is not like the transgression. For if the many died through the transgression of the one man, how much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one man Jesus Christ multiply to the many!"

Ephesians 2:8, "For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God"

2 Thessalonians 2:16, "Now may our Lord Jesus Christ himself and God our Father, who loved us and by grace gave us eternal comfort and good hope"

Titus 3:7, "And so, since we have been justified by his grace, we become heirs with the confident expectation of eternal life.”

 

[timothyu]

Really? Salvation by works? That's not what my Bible says. We are saved by God's grace, period.

Guess repentance (change) became obsolete in your Bible.

Grace applies to the gift of the Kingdom and God's willingness to return to live among repentant man. He didn't just suddenly change His mind and reversed the curse of consequences attained in the Garden and necessitating our eviction. We still have to make the same choice, His will or our own, and show that change by our actions (fruits).

There are a lot of less than desirable people who give God lip service and claim the salvation card but still live a life of self interest while seeking personal gain regardless to the consequences of others. Jesus calls them Lord Lords. Just as Jesus went out to reach the sick within the Hebrew religion, He still reaches out to the sick within Christianity.

 

[friend of]

It's always a "red flag" warning to me when anyone who calls themselves a Christian -- part of the body of Christ -- sits in condemnation of virtually the entire rest of the body.

Do you still not get that the original post is satire?

 

[friend of]

I asked: What is your definition of professing Christians? (as opposed to true Christians?) and you responded with Matthew 7:21, " “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of heaven—only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven." Of course, Jesus wasn't speaking to Christians -- there were none yet -- but to Jews, so your selection of Scripture is off-base.

Perhaps you should re-read John 3:16-17, "For this is the way God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world should be saved through him." That contradicts your (incorrect) doctrine of salvation by works.

Finally, what does your post #30 have to do with this?

You asked me to give you an example of what I thought a professing Christian was, in contrast with what a true Christian is. I directed you to post #30 because it explains what a professing Christian is, which differs from a possessing Christian. I used to be a professing Christian who did not, actually possess a salvific relationship with Christ. That post is the best way I can explain from my own experience, the difference.

If you think all professing Christians will be saved, then why did Jesus say "not all who say to me 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom"? That's my question to you.

 

[pescador]

Guess repentance (change) became obsolete in your Bible.

Grace applies to the gift of the Kingdom and God's willingness to return to live among repentant man. He didn't just suddenly change His mind and reversed the curse of consequences attained in the Garden and necessitating our eviction. We still have to make the same choice, His will or our own, and show that change by our actions (fruits).

There are a lot of less than desirable people who give God lip service and claim the salvation card but still live a life of self interest while seeking personal gain regardless to the consequences of others. Jesus calls them Lord Lords. Just as Jesus went out to reach the sick within the Hebrew religion, He still reaches out to the sick within Christianity.

There is a real difference between repentance and salvation. For instance, John baptized people for repentance but that didn't mean they were saved. They weren't!

People are saved by one method only: it is a gift from God. Repentance is turning away from sin. I hope that you will be able to understand the difference.

 

[pescador]

Do you still not get that the original post is satire?

No I don't get that. What is satirical about condemning virtually the entire body of Christ?

 

[pescador]

You asked me to give you an example of what I thought a professing Christian was, in contrast with what a true Christian is. I directed you to post #30 because it explains what a professing Christian is, which differs from a possessing Christian. I used to be a professing Christian who did not, actually possess a salvific relationship with Christ. That post is the best way I can explain from my own experience, the difference.

If you think all professing Christians will be saved, then why did Jesus say "not all who say to me 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom"? That's my question to you.

My question to you is: to whom did Jesus say "not all who say to me 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom"? Matthew 7:21-22 It was to the Jews of His time, not to Christians. It is important to read Scripture in context, keeping in mind to whom it was said.

How do you know that you didn't possess a salvific relationship with Christ?

 

[friend of]

No I don't get that. What is satirical about condemning virtually the entire body of Christ?

The fact that it's not meant to be taken seriously as it's a parody on those members of the body of Christ who tend to make the way more narrow than it truly is.

 

[friend of]

How do you know that you didn't possess a salvific relationship with Christ?

The answer is in post #30, but I'll tell you now. I didn't read the bible, didn't follow Jesus' commands (to wit, I was involved in fornication and drunkenness) and I didn't understand the gospel. So I do not believe I was saved at that time in my young life.

 

[Aldebaran]

Or Luke 13:24. But Christ says "many" will not be able to enter. He does not say "most"

Interesting what comes after that verse. Those who won't be able to enter aren't those who actually call upon Him for the forgiveness of their sins:

25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, open to us; and he shall answer and say to you, I know you not whence ye are; 26 then shall ye begin to say, We did eat and drink in thy presence, and thou didst teach in our streets; 27 and he shall say, I tell you, I know not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

 

[Aldebaran]

The answer is in post #30, but I'll tell you now. I didn't read the bible, didn't follow Jesus' commands (to wit, I was involved in fornication and drunkenness) and I didn't understand the gospel. So I do not believe I was saved at that time in my young life.

If I may present an alternative view of your situation, you may very well have been saved during the times you were still involved in sinful activities. Becoming saved doesn't always result in instant change in one's life. That can often come later as you grow, and it sounds like you eventually grew enough to realize it wasn't in God's will to do those things. In fact, 10 years from now you might look back to now and see how much more you've grown and believe you weren't saved at this time either.

 

[friend of]

My question to you is: to whom did Jesus say "not all who say to me 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom"? Matthew 7:21-22 It was to the Jews of His time, not to Christians. It is important to read Scripture in context, keeping in mind to whom it was said

When Christ says "depart from me, ye workers of iniquity" He cannot only be talking to Jews. You don't have to be Jewish to work iniquity. I believe Jesus was speaking about Gentiles as well in this verse.

 

[pescador]

Luke 13:26-28, "Then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in your presence, and you taught in our streets.’ But he will reply, ‘I don’t know where you come from! Go away from me, all you evildoers!’ There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when you see Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and all the prophets in the kingdom of God but you yourselves thrown out."

This is referring only to the Jews to whom Christ was talking. Jesus clearly wasn't speaking about to or about Gentiles.

 

[timothyu]

This is referring only to the Jews to whom Christ was talking. Jesus clearly wasn't speaking about to or about Gentiles.

Perhaps not at the time, but branches still are affected just as the main limbs.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Can I get an Amen?!


(Is anyone tired of reading posts like this?)

Nope. No Amen here. Sorry.

-CryptoLutheran