94% of the universe’s galaxies are permanently beyond our reach

timewerx

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If we ever manage to travel at or even just very close to the speed of light, then faster-than-light speeds is just around the corner.

Some of these galaxies are already traveling at faster-than-light speeds. There is a "cheat" to punch through the lightspeed limit. By "dragging" the "local space" with you, you can beat the speed of light by absolute speed but without exceeding it in your local space.

Galaxies drag local space by their gravity field. Two ways man-made craft can generate enough gravitational gradient to drag local space and beat the speed of light is through matter's (mass) inherent gravity and traveling at speed close to the speed of light. To get there, you'll need pure EM (electromagnetic) based propulsion system. Those regular or ion or nuclear rockets aren't up to this task since they are limited by finite amount of "propellant mass".

Nothing is beyond reach if people just work for the good of one another and not for accumulation of personal wealth.
 
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Gnarwhal

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Even if we traveled at the speed of light, we'd never catch up to these galaxies.

Continued below.
https://bigthink.com/starts-with-a-bang/universes-galaxies-unreachable/

Unless we find the Stargate...

(please let it be real, let me have this)

stargate-gif.gif
 
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Mark Quayle

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If we ever manage to travel at or even just very close to the speed of light, then faster-than-light speeds is just around the corner.

Some of these galaxies are already traveling at faster-than-light speeds. There is a "cheat" to punch through the lightspeed limit. By "dragging" the "local space" with you, you can beat the speed of light by absolute speed but without exceeding it in your local space.

Galaxies drag local space by their gravity field. Two ways man-made craft can generate enough gravitational gradient to drag local space and beat the speed of light is through matter's (mass) inherent gravity and traveling at speed close to the speed of light. To get there, you'll need pure EM (electromagnetic) based propulsion system. Those regular or ion or nuclear rockets aren't up to this task since they are limited by finite amount of "propellant mass".

Nothing is beyond reach if people just work for the good of one another and not for accumulation of personal wealth.
See, here's what I've been trying to say all along. I can understand that at the time the light we now see from those galaxies was being projected toward us, they were not moving at the speed of light or more, away from us.

But what I don't understand is, what makes their 'local space' so special that they are able to exceed the speed of light (compared to us)? To me the speed of light has to be like the speed of sound or any other such waveform energy. Relative.

But I'm ignorant of the math. So I can't say anything. But let's surf the next local space.
 
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Andrei D

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But what I don't understand is, what makes their 'local space' so special that they are able to exceed the speed of light (compared to us)? To me the speed of light has to be like the speed of sound or any other such waveform energy. Relative.

They don't exceed the speed of light and it's not "speed" that we are talking about anyway. Speed refers to movement, which is change of position in space over time. When defining speed that way, then the speed of light is always the same.

The way I understand this is that space time expands rather than just objects (galaxies) moving within space. It expanded very quickly early on, then slowed down and now is accelerating again. In this framework, talking about speed is confusing, because space-time obviously cannot move in space over time; it is the actual space-time that expands. It's best to always use quote marks (galaxies "move" away from us because the space in between expands, but they are near stationary in space)

Because of that, the "perceived speed" at which galaxies "move" in relation to us depends on how far away they are. Very far away galaxies "move" so fast that their light will never reach us. Moreover, the galaxies we see today are going to go past the limit of visibility and we will never see them again.

I think this video uses language more carefully so as not to mistranslate the math:
If the universe is only 14 billion years old, how can it be 92 billion light years wide? - YouTube

This might also help: How to travel faster than light - YouTube
 
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Mark Quayle

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They don't exceed the speed of light and it's not "speed" that we are talking about anyway. Speed refers to movement, which is change of position in space over time. When defining speed that way, then the speed of light is always the same.

Yet, we ARE talking about speed. That is the parameter of the OP.

The speed of light is always the same in relation to WHAT? Local objects? Ok, then. By that, then, would you say that the distance between objects within any galaxy relative to the nature of that galaxy, do not separate —that is, from the perspective of any particular galaxy, does the galaxy also expand? And do the objects in that galaxy also get bigger? If not, does the galaxy itself expand in relation to other galaxies? What seem to me to be obvious implications get scattered all over the place.

The way I understand this is that space time expands rather than just objects (galaxies) moving within space. It expanded very quickly early on, then slowed down and now is accelerating again. In this framework, talking about speed is confusing, because space-time obviously cannot move in space over time; it is the actual space-time that expands. It's best to always use quote marks (galaxies "move" away from us because the space in between expands, but they are near stationary in space)

Just a side question, then, if I may. If space-time itself expands, how can anyone know how long it took to do so —to go from time-zero to present day? We can only say, "It appears to us here, according to red-shift (or whatever), that it took 14 billion years."

Also, from what poor understanding I garner from what I have been told, I see no reason to conclude that any other local space-time began simultaneously with ours. In fact, the word 'simultaneous' loses all meaning there. It might be intuitive to assume there was only one Big-Bang, but I don't see, if so, how one can say any one galaxy retreating faster than the speed of light relative to our own, has within its own internal(?) principle of space-time the inability for anything to go faster than the speed of light.

Because of that, the "perceived speed" at which galaxies "move" in relation to us depends on how far away they are. Very far away galaxies "move" so fast that their light will never reach us. Moreover, the galaxies we see today are going to go past the limit of visibility and we will never see them again.

I don't have any problem understanding this. To me it is simple math, not at all counter-intuitive, without any need to reference any particular galaxy's internal(?) space-time. But in conversations before this one, I am told simply "It is impossible to go faster than the speed of light, period.", and I say, the speed of light, then, must be relative to something; if that statement (that it is impossible to go faster than the speed of light) is true, then they have to mean relative to some local space-time (or something). I don't get it, obviously. To me, it is like saying, in an argument concerning whether breathing is consciously or automatically controlled, "But you are breathing AIR!".
 
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timewerx

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But what I don't understand is, what makes their 'local space' so special that they are able to exceed the speed of light (compared to us)? To me the speed of light has to be like the speed of sound or any other such waveform energy. Relative.

Nothing special, any moving object with mass can have a "local space". It's undetectable unless the object is either massive like the size of our moon or bigger or moving pretty close to the speed of light.

Galaxies can potentially propel themselves through space by "jetting" and eventually reaching faster than light speeds completely on their own means. So it's really not certain whether space is expanding or galaxies are literally moving away independently by themselves to "seed" other parts of the Universe.
 
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Mark Quayle

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Nothing special, any moving object with mass can have a "local space". It's undetectable unless the object is either massive like the size of our moon or bigger or moving pretty close to the speed of light.
The implication, then, is that the speed of light can be exceeded, even within a larger "local space" such as a galaxy, and not as galaxy relative to another galaxy.

Galaxies can potentially propel themselves through space by "jetting" and eventually reaching faster than light speeds completely on their own means. So it's really not certain whether space is expanding or galaxies are literally moving away independently by themselves to "seed" other parts of the Universe.
"Jetting"? What means of propulsion is that, when speaking of whole galaxies?
 
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timewerx

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The implication, then, is that the speed of light can be exceeded, even within a larger "local space" such as a galaxy, and not as galaxy relative to another galaxy.

Yup, that's what I'm talking about. Blackholes already does it within a galaxy. The local space around them and anything that gets within that space can move at faster than light speeds than the rest of the galaxy.

"Jetting"? What means of propulsion is that, when speaking of whole galaxies?

Some galaxies produce relativistic jets (google up).

"jetting" as a way to propel a galaxy is a simplistic term. In reality, the jets may actually be "dragging" the whole galaxy in the same direction it's going. Relativistic jet consists of matter and energy moving at >99.99% the speed of light. They have enough mass and energy to drag the local space around them. It could drag the most massive component in the galaxy which is the giant black hole which in turns, carries the entire galaxy with it.

IMO, galaxies are naturally-occuring faster-than-light space propulsion systems. The stars and all other stellar matter and any diffuse matter in the space between galaxies being its fuel.

You probably won't hear this in any science journals. Our corrupt world usually avoids making exciting hypothesis especially if it agrees with scriptures and even if it's likely to be true.

Our universe isn't expanding, the galaxies are running away on their own! Those that got unplugged from the "Matrix" ^_^
 
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chevyontheriver

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I had an odd feeling of sadness hearing this. So much to do and so many places to see. And then to find out there is no hope of actually visiting 94% of it.
All will be known when we have passed on from this life.
 
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chevyontheriver

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All will be known when we have passed on from this life.
Yes. And what kind of creation would it be if it were so small we could travel to all of it. God is big. Proof is a universe that is too big to visit it all. For that matter a planet too big to visit it all. That we have an eternity then is the consolation. Heaven can never be boring. And we even get to look on the face of God.
 
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chevyontheriver

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Lol, agreed. So are you saying I was out of order for mentioning it?
Not out of order, but a peculiar way to turn my post into a launching pad for what you wrote. You are welcome in this forum but not allowed to teach against the teachings of the faith. So far as I know, your particular post did not contradict any Catholic teaching.
 
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Mark Quayle

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Not out of order, but a peculiar way to turn my post into a launching pad for what you wrote. You are welcome in this forum but not allowed to teach against the teachings of the faith. So far as I know, your particular post did not contradict any Catholic teaching.
My bad. I had forgotten (or never took note) that it was in the Catholic forum.

Deleted forthwith.
 
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chevyontheriver

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My bad. I had forgotten (or never took note) that it was in the Catholic forum.

Deleted forthwith.
Here's the thing. You can post here. You just can't post things oppositional to Catholic teaching.
 
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Here's the thing. You can post here. You just can't post things oppositional to Catholic teaching.

Pope Francis kind of does all of the time though ... Strange times, strange times indeed.
 
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