[911 edit] Married men and sex (2)

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FaithPrevails

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In the first thread, His Wife said this:

And he doesn't try to get me in the mood just for himself. In fact, I don't think most of it was for himself. He could care less about candles and romance. But he knew it was important to me. Seeing the beautiful gesture, I made the choice to put what I felt aside, and to act on what I knew: that I loved him, and he loved me, and I wanted to show him that love by being selfless, as he had just been selfless.

I think this is an important statement. It has been said throughout this conversation that sex is different for women - i.e. it takes longer to get revved up, our emotions are more deeply connected to intimacy, etc. This is all true, IMO. So, if each partner is engaging in sexual intimacy with the goal of their spouse's pleasure as their priority, then they will be satisfied (at least on some level, if not always physically) by having brought pleasure to their spouse.

When hubby and I are intimate, my concern is not whether I get mine or not - but that he is pleased and enjoys the experience. Likewise, his focus is on me. Neither of us worry about ourselves, b/c we know the other person is intent on our enjoyment of the coupling.
 
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JRSut1000

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I don't think most people have a problem with mutual desire/sexual fulfillment, but the issue comes in when one spouse isn't allowing the other to have the ultimate pleasure because typicaly it's a lot faster for a man. Is the wife still obligated to pleasure her husband in those cases?

My simple answer - yes! Like I said before, rarely have I ever reached the 'big O' due to reasons I don't quite get, but that doesn't make me no longer want to be with him or to pleasure him. Even on days when I can't actually have intercourse, I still offer to give him pleasure in other ways (we find that OK in our marriage, everyone has different levels of comfortability concerning bedroom acts).

But it all comes down to - why keep score, just hold up your end of the 'bargain' for the sake of love and because God so desires you to do so. The Christian life for the most part shouldn't be so complex that we just can't do what the Word says for the sake of love of God and others.
 
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pobodysnerfect

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Originally Posted by pobodysnerfect
No person has a right to sin and then blame someone else for it. We are all accountable for our actions, inactions and choices.

However, we are also called as individuals NOT to cause another to stumble.

If I can help ease the temptation of sexual sin in my dh, I will do so.

I truly cannot understand all the resistance to this topic when we are not discussing sex with monstrous men, but just the average run of the mill, hardworking, honest, loyal, faithful, imperfect but doing their best to be loving husbands.
Then ATHENE: (forgive me if I messed up your name :blush:)Because it seems a perversion of what sex should be about. Here you seem to present it, not as a mutually enjoyable and beneficial thing, but something the wife does for the husband so he can get off and therefore won't turn his attentions elsewhere. Earlier JRSUT(?) talked about if 15 minutes really matters, the implication being - just go get it over with because it's only for a few minutes.

Why wouldn't I resist this?

________

How is it a perversion? My dh's drive and need is different than mine. I accept that. I accept that my willingness to embrace it and meet that need blesses *him* as well as *myself*. (I have found that when we bless others, we are blessed in return) The physical desire for sex does not have to lead us..its out minds that should. If our minds are open to sex, our bodies will follow right along in a loving, no past sexual abuse issues, marriage.
Dh's want to have sex with us because it is how they feel and express love.

I just really feel like this is waaaay harder than it needs to be.
 
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JRSut1000

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See, I don't see it as 'just get over it', I see it as 'can you offer the very least of 15 minutes to pleasure your husband'? Everything takes sacrifice and time and it's not alwazys 'mutually pleasurable' whether it's sex in the bedroom, cooking and cleaning for our families, spending extra time in the evening to work on homework with the kids, taking the time to make that phone call to a relative or friend you haven't talked to, and dare I add time for devotions/family prayer time, etc.

We don't always get what we want out of people in return, even from those we think should.
 
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Athene

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I don't think most people have a problem with mutual desire/sexual fulfillment, but the issue comes in when one spouse isn't allowing the other to have the ultimate pleasure because typicaly it's a lot faster for a man. Is the wife still obligated to pleasure her husband in those cases?

My simple answer - yes! Like I said before, rarely have I ever reached the 'big O' due to reasons I don't quite get, but that doesn't make me no longer want to be with him or to pleasure him. Even on days when I can't actually have intercourse, I still offer to give him pleasure in other ways (we find that OK in our marriage, everyone has different levels of comfortability concerning bedroom acts).

But it all comes down to - why keep score, just hold up your end of the 'bargain' for the sake of love and because God so desires you to do so. The Christian life for the most part shouldn't be so complex that we just can't do what the Word says for the sake of love of God and others.

Is there a similar obligation on the husband? Is a husband obligated to ensure his wife has good, satisfying sex in order to stop her from being tempted? Should he offer to pleasure her in other ways while she's on her period and penetrative sex is not on the table?

I think the reason why I don't get you is because you seem to be presenting this view of sex as something a woman does for a man for his pleasure, rather then something done for each other and for mutual pleasure.
 
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CarrieAnnC

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I am confused that everything in these many pages are centered on wife giving joy to husband and now no joy to be expected in return. If a husband takes tender time with his wife, there will be reciprocated pleasure. This is something both can take time to make sure of together. If there is time for relations, there is time for both to know each other fully and make sure that pleasure is two way. If a married woman has had no pleasure in several years of marriage, something is missing in his ministrations. Also, the woman can get to know her own body which is not sin and teach her husband about her body. The greater joy they have together, the closer their bond and mutual love. This helps in later years when relations may become more infrequent due to ageing.
 
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CarrieAnnC

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Is there a similar obligation on the husband? Is a husband obligated to ensure his wife has good, satisfying sex in order to stop her from being tempted? Should he offer to pleasure her in other ways while she's on her period and penetrative sex is not on the table?

I think the reason why I don't get you is because you seem to be presenting this view of sex as something a woman does for a man for his pleasure, rather then something done for each other and for mutual pleasure.
I agree this is confounding to women who take pleasure in marital relations.
 
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Athene

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See, I don't see it as 'just get over it', I see it as 'can you offer the very least of 15 minutes to pleasure your husband'? Everything takes sacrifice and time and it's not alwazys 'mutually pleasurable' whether it's sex in the bedroom, cooking and cleaning for our families, spending extra time in the evening to work on homework with the kids, taking the time to make that phone call to a relative or friend you haven't talked to, and dare I add time for devotions/family prayer time, etc.

We don't always get what we want out of people in return, even from those we think should.

I don't know about anyone else but I know that my husband would be devastated if he found out that I wasn't getting any pleasure out of sex with him, I considered it a sacrifice and equivalent with just doing a household chore. I am left cold, quite literally. Not well said at all.
 
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JRSut1000

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I take pleasure in it, not denying it. I'm just saying AS A WOMAN, TO WOMEN focus on your husband and not yourself. I'd say the same thing to the man but do I really want to tell other men how to love their wives? Men should be doing that, not me. Women usually tend to look at 'well what about him?' That's something I think as women we do too much.
 
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CarrieAnnC

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I take pleasure in it, not denying it. I'm just saying AS A WOMAN, TO WOMEN focus on your husband and not yourself. I'd say the same thing to the man but do I really want to tell other men how to love their wives? Men should be doing that, not me.
Young lady, I don't know who you are shouting at, but I know how to focus on my husband. After many many years of marriage and many experiences you do not know, I know that both married people should be mutually generous in their relations. This does not mean that a wife should not expect pleasure from her husband as he expects pleasure from her. It is mutual pleasure.
 
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pobodysnerfect

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I agree this is confounding to women who take pleasure in marital relations.

As a woman who takes pleasure in marital relations I must say I am not confounded at all.

I completely understand what she is saying...she is saying its not always about us. Sometimes it can be about blessing our dhs with sex without thinking "What has HE done for ME lately?!".
The blessing comes from our willingness to allow ourselved time to get interested, because (maybe I am alone here) my body doesn't desire the act as much as my dh's, BUT I enjoy being with him and the act of sex (even on the off time of no [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] for me).

Not one person has said there is no joy expected in return...there is great joy in being a blessing to the one you love most in the world. There is joy in feeling your body warm under his touch, and there is joy that comes from the act its-self.
 
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Athene

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I take pleasure in it, not denying it. I'm just saying AS A WOMAN, TO WOMEN focus on your husband and not yourself. I'd say the same thing to the man but do I really want to tell other men how to love their wives? Men should be doing that, not me.

You are not making sense. You have it as ok for men to put their own needs first and to seek sexual release regardless of whether their wives are in the mood or find it enjoyable. You don't think it's ok for women to insist on sex that is pleasurable to them - it's bad for women to focus on her own needs, it's not bad for men to focus on their own needs.

Really, not making sense.
 
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FaithPrevails

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You are not making sense. You have it as ok for men to put their own needs first and to seek sexual release regardless of whether their wives are in the mood or find it enjoyable. You don't think it's ok for women to insist on sex that is pleasurable to them - it's bad for women to focus on her own needs, it's not bad for men to focus on their own needs.

Really, not making sense.

She is saying that the husband should focus on the wife's pleasure and the wife should focus on the husband's pleasure. It makes perfect sense to me.

What about that message is confusing to you?
 
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FaithPrevails

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Perhaps after 30 years people will not think they know so much about marriage to shout at people who do.

I would personally take marital opinions and advice from someone who has had a shorter term, healthy marriage with higher regard than I would from someone who has been married longer and has not had a healthy relationship for all those years.

Just b/c you don't agree with what the poster is saying who you are speaking of above, does not discredit what she is saying.
 
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