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Featured 7th Trumpet Rapture?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Everett J Schulte, Feb 10, 2018.

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  1. jerry kelso

    jerry kelso Food For Thought

    +214
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    keras,

    1. I have no false beliefs. You haven’t rebutted anything I gave from the scriptures and their context.

    2. First of all we will be raptured before the tribulation.
    The tribulation saints will be resurrected on the last day that Jesus talked about in John 5:29.
    And this last day is not Armageddon because they are seen in Heaven before the 7 vials Revelation 15:1-2. Why? Because the Wrath Of God is only on the Beast Kingdom worshippers Revelation 16:2.
    Tribulation saints are only martyrs Revelation 6:9-11; 7:13-17; 13:7; 14:13; 15:1-2; 20:4.

    3. I believe the Bible states a pre-trib rapture.
    For those who believe that the church goes through the tribulation doesn’t matter. Why? Because the Bible says to “Occupy till he comes”.
    People die today all the time for the cause of Christ. We have to be ready at all times.
    The pre-trib rapture is not about escapism but the promise of God and to allow for the program with Israel to receive the Kingdom gifts and callings. Genesis 5:24 Enoch was translated to Heaven before Noah’s flood which is the type of the church being raptured.
    Are you going to get mad at God because he took Enoch and made Noah go through the flood?

    4. The Day Of Wrath called the Second Coming or Advent will have people still alive and left on earth Matthew 24:37-41 shows you want to be the one left and not taken. If you are taken you will be like those in vs. 38-39 who die.
    The rapture whether pre, mid, or post you want to be the one taken not left.

    5. The KoH reign on earth is after the Second coming Revelation 20:1-10.
    The 1000 Years will have peace and prosperity. Why ? Because the Devil will be chained in the bottomless pit Revelation 20:1-3.
    Isaiah 11:1-9. V 9; They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.

    6. “In all of the holy land” prophecy? What is your scripture and your context in that statement? Jerry Kelso
     
  2. seventysevens

    seventysevens Well-Known Member

    +829
    Christian
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    You have AGAIN IGNORED scripture to make your doctrine/fable work READ the Entirety

    Isa 24
    The Lord is going to completely destroy everything on earth.
    He will twist its surface.
    He’ll scatter those who live on it.
    2 Priests and people alike will suffer.
    So will masters and their servants.
    And so will women and their female servants.
    Sellers and buyers alike will suffer.
    So will those who borrow and those who lend.
    And so will those who owe money and those who lend it.
    3 The earth will be completely destroyed.
    Everything of value will be taken out of it.
    That’s what the Lord has said.

    4 The earth will dry up completely.
    The world will dry up and waste away.
    The heavens will fade away along with the earth.
    5 The earth is polluted by its people.
    They haven’t obeyed the laws of the Lord.
    They haven’t done what he told them to do.
    They’ve broken the covenant that will last forever.
    6 So the Lord will send a curse on the earth.
    Its people will pay for what they’ve done.
    They will be burned up.
    Very few of them will be left.
    7 The vines and fresh wine will dry up completely.
    Those who used to have a good time will groan.
    8 The happy sounds of tambourines will be gone.
    The noise of those who enjoy wild parties will stop.
    The joyful music of harps will become silent.
    9 People will no longer sing as they drink wine.
    Beer will taste bitter to those who drink it.
    10 Destroyed cities will lie empty.
    People will lock themselves inside their houses.
    11 In the streets people will cry out for wine.
    All joy will turn into sadness.
    All joyful sounds will be driven out of the earth.
    12 All the buildings will be knocked down.
    Every city gate will be smashed to pieces.
    13 That’s how it will be on the earth.
    And that’s how it will be among the nations.
    It will be as when workers knock all but a few olives off the trees.
    It will be like a vine that has only a few grapes left after the harvest.

    14 Those who are left alive will shout for joy.
    People from the west will praise the Lord because he is the King.

    15 So give glory to him, you who live in the east.
    Honor the name of the Lord, you who are in the islands of the sea.
    He is the God of Israel.
    16 From one end of the earth to the other we hear singing.
    People are saying,
    “Give glory to the God who always does what is right.”


    But I said, “I feel very bad.
    I’m getting weaker and weaker.
    How terrible it is for me!
    People turn against one another.
    They can’t be trusted.
    So they turn against one another.”
    17 Listen, you people of the earth.
    Terror, a pit and a trap are waiting for you.
    18 Anyone who runs away from the terror
    will fall into the pit.
    Anyone who climbs out of the pit
    will be caught in the trap.

    The Lord will open the windows of the skies.
    He will flood the land.
    The foundations of the earth will shake.
    19 The earth will be broken up.
    It will split open.
    It will be shaken to pieces.
    20 The earth will be unsteady like someone who is drunk.
    It will sway like a tent in the wind.
    Its sin will weigh so heavily on it that it will fall.
    It will never get up again.

    21 At that time the Lord will punish
    the spiritual forces of evil in the heavens above.
    He will also punish the kings on the earth below.
    22 They will be brought together
    like prisoners in chains.
    They’ll be locked up in prison.
    After many days the Lord will punish them.

    23 The Lord who rules over all will rule
    on Mount Zion in Jerusalem.

    The elders of the city will be there.
    They will see his great glory.
    His rule will be so glorious that the sun and moon
    will be too ashamed to shine.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2018
  3. seventysevens

    seventysevens Well-Known Member

    +829
    Christian
    In Relationship
    Isa 25
    On Mount Zion the Lord who rules over all will prepare
    a feast for all the nations.
    The best and richest foods
    and the finest aged wines will be served.

    7
    On that mountain the Lord will destroy
    the veil of sadness that covers all the nations.
    He will destroy the gloom that is spread over everyone.
    8
    He will swallow up death forever.
    The Lord and King will wipe away the tears
    from everyone’s face.
    He will remove the shame of his people
    from the whole earth.
    The Lord has spoken.

    9 At that time they will say,

    “He is our God.
    We trusted in him, and he saved us.
    He is the Lord. We trusted in him.
    Let us be filled with joy because he saved us.”


    10
    The Lord’s power will keep Mount Zion safe.
    But the people of Moab will be crushed in their land.
    They will be crushed just as straw is crushed in animal waste.
    11
    They will try to swim their way out of it.
    They will spread out their hands in it,
    just as swimmers spread out their hands to swim.
    But God will bring down Moab’s pride.
    None of their skill will help them.
    12
    He will pull down their high, strong walls.
    He will bring them down to the ground.
    He’ll bring them right down to the dust.
     
  4. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

    +1,606
    New Zealand
    Pentecostal
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    I too, agree with the Samarian woman. Jesus will be worshipped in Jerusalem.
    What Jesus said in John 4:21-24, has come to pass; in this church era, we Christians worship Him in Spirit and in truth, from wherever we live around the world. So what Jesus said was right for nearly 2000 years, but set to change when Jesus Returns for His Millennium reign.
    This is the basis for all your error. You treat a 'rapture to heaven' as a given certainty. Let me inform you that a rapture to heaven for any group is never stated to happen in the Bible. It is purely wishful thinking and a fable as Paul says that many will be fooled by, in 2 Timothy 4:3-4.
    I have posted many prophesies that say we Christians will occupy all of the holy Land. If we don't, then God's plan to have His people there will have failed.
    Here is one of them, read and understand what our destiny really is:

    Nearly 4000 years ago, God met with Abraham and made an irrevocable Covenant with him: that his descendants would inherit all that area from the Nile to the Euphrates. Genesis 15:6-20 [Actual and descendants by faith in God]

    Later, after the incident at Mt Moriah, Genesis 22:15-18, God promised to make his descendants as numerous as the sands of the sea and they would possess the cities of their enemies.

    Immediately, we see the problem with those who say that the Jewish people are all of Israel, because the Jews, who are only 2 of the 12 tribes of the sons of Jacob, have never been really numerous, or have been conquerors. We see this difference again in the blessings given to the tribes by Jacob: Genesis 48 & 49 and Moses: Deuteronomy 33. Note particularly in Genesis 48:3-4….I shall make you fruitful and increase your descendants until they become a host of nations.

    This truth completely removes any idea of the Jewish State of Israel being the sole inheritors of the holy Land. In fact they only occupy a small portion of it and Bible prophecy is clear: because of their apostasy and sins, they will be thrown out. Jeremiah 10:18, Jeremiah 12:14, Isaiah 22:14, Ezekiel 21:1-7 Amos 2:4-5, +
    There can be no argument as to who it will be that does inherit all of the holy Land: it is those whom Jesus came to save: the lost sheep of the House of Israel. Matthew 15:24 They are the people descended from the 10 tribes that were taken into exile by the Assyrians and have lost the knowledge of their ancestry. Paul talks about this secret of God in Ephesians 3:1-6, where he refers to them as Gentiles. i.e. non Jews.

    The Apostles and Josephus knew where they were. Of course the Jews knew about their kin, as we see in John 7:35 and their Rabbis still speculate as to when the tribes will rejoin.
    The remnant of Judah, the Messianic Jews, will rejoin with their Christian brothers at the great spiritual regeneration described in Ezekiel 37, Romans 9:24-26

    Galatians 3:14 God’s purpose in all of this, is so that the Blessings of Abraham should be extended to the Gentiles, so that we can all receive the Spirit through faith.
    Ezekiel 11:15-20 The whole people of Israel [the 10 tribes] to whom Judah [the Jews] have said: The Land is now ours to possess. The Lord says: When I sent Israel far away around the world, for a while I was their protector and blessed them wherever they lived. I shall gather My people from their dispersion and give the Land of Israel to them. I will remove their hearts of stone and put a new spirit in them. They will be My people and I will be their God.

    This prophecy says how the Jews believe the holy Land is their possession. But the Lord will give it to His righteous Christian people, the peoples who have been blessed with prosperity and strength. They will be joined by born again Christians from every race, nation and language. Isaiah 56:1-8, Revelation 5:9-10

    This will happen soon after the forthcoming Lord’s Day of vengeance and wrath:

    Ezekiel 20:34 By My outpoured wrath, I shall bring you out from the nations and gather you from wherever you are dispersed.

    Isaiah 41:8-10 Have no fear, My people - the descendants of My friend, Abraham. Galatians 3:29 I have not rejected you, now I summon you from the four corners of the earth; I am with you and will give you strength.

    But not all of those whom God knows are actual Israelites, Amos 9:9, will be allowed to enter the holy Land:
    Ezekiel 20:35-38 I shall bring you out of the nations and I shall state My case against you. I shall make you pass under the Rod of Judgement. Just as I did in the wilderness of Egypt, so I shall indict you. I will count you as you enter, but those who revolt and rebel, I shall take them from the lands where they now live, but they will not set foot in the holy Land. Thus you will know I am the Lord.

    These are plainly stated prophesies, not yet fulfilled, but surely will be.

     
  5. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    In Hebrews 10:16-18 we find the fulfillment of the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34, with the end of sacrifices.
    There will be no more sacrifices, when Christ returns.

    The New Covenant is "everlasting" in Hebrews 13:20.
    It does not come to an end when Christ returns.

    Christ defeated sin and death at Calvary.
    He will not rule over a world where sin and death remain for 1,000 years after His return.

    The "time of the judgment of the dead" in Revelation 11:18, with reward for some and destruction for others, kills the premill doctrine. This verse must be ignored to make the premill doctrine work.





    .
     
  6. seventysevens

    seventysevens Well-Known Member

    +829
    Christian
    In Relationship
    AGAIN you have ignored much of the LORDS word to make the failure of amil doctrine to work
    You seem to repeatedly cherry pick scriptures to make the amil doctrine work because it fails when ALL the scriptures are included

    Jeremiah 31
    “At that time,” declares the Lord, “I will be the God of all the families of Israel, and they will be my people.”
    2 This is what the Lord says: “The people who survive the sword will find favor in the wilderness; I will come to give rest to Israel.”

    6 There will be a day when watchmen cry out on the hills of Ephraim,
    ‘Come, let us go up to Zion, to the Lord our God.’”

    11
    For the Lord will deliver Jacob and redeem them from the hand of those stronger than they.

    12 They will come and shout for joy on the heights of Zion; they will rejoice in the bounty of the Lord—the grain, the new wine and the olive oil, the young of the flocks and herds. They will be like a well-watered garden, and they will sorrow no more.
    31 “The days are coming,” declares the Lord,
    “when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah.
    32 It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord.

    33“This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time,” declares the Lord. “I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.

    34 No longer will they teach their neighbor, or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
    because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest,”
    declares the Lord.
    “For I will forgive their wickedness
    and will remember their sins no more.”

    A new covenant He will make with the people of Israel after that time,

    “I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.

    This has not yet happened - It will happen at the time Jesus when Jesus has returned
    the people The LORD is referring to is ISRAEL and Judah
    "“when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah."
    Since much of Israel and Judah at this time still reject Jesus as LORD - this prophecy is still in the future when Jesus returns to earth.
    Israel will go through a punishment before Jesus returns because it is prophesied and the only way to get Israel to accept Jesus as LORD
    Jeremiah 31 is about the nation of Israel being brought unto Jesus as LORD because much of Israel not as of yet have accepted Him as LORD
     
  7. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    You have to cut Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18 out of your Bible to make your claim work.
    Those passages quote directly from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and show them to be in the present tense during the first century.


    Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
    Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
    Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: (Part of this is quoted from Jeremiah 31:31-34.)
    Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
    Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
    Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
    Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
    Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.


    Heb 10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; (Quoted from Jeremiah 31:31-34.)
    Heb 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
    Heb 10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

    ........................................

    Below we find the New Covenant applied directly to the Church.

    Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
    Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
    Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

    .

     
    Last edited: May 18, 2018
  8. seventysevens

    seventysevens Well-Known Member

    +829
    Christian
    In Relationship
    You simply do not understand it
    AGAIN you have ignored much of the LORDS word to make the failure of amil doctrine to work
    You seem to repeatedly cherry pick scriptures to make the amil doctrine work because it fails when ALL the scriptures are included

    Jeremiah 31
    “At that time,” declares the Lord, “I will be the God of all the families of Israel, and they will be my people.”
    2 This is what the Lord says: “The people who survive the sword will find favor in the wilderness; I will come to give rest to Israel.”

    6 There will be a day when watchmen cry out on the hills of Ephraim,
    ‘Come, let us go up to Zion, to the Lord our God.’”

    11
    For the Lord will deliver Jacob and redeem them from the hand of those stronger than they.

    12 They will come and shout for joy on the heights of Zion; they will rejoice in the bounty of the Lord—the grain, the new wine and the olive oil, the young of the flocks and herds. They will be like a well-watered garden, and they will sorrow no more.
    31 “The days are coming,” declares the Lord,
    “when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah.
    32 It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord.

    33“This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time,” declares the Lord. “I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.

    34 No longer will they teach their neighbor, or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
    because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest,”
    declares the Lord.
    “For I will forgive their wickedness
    and will remember their sins no more.”

    A new covenant He will make with the people of Israel after that time,
    “I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.

    This has not yet happened - It will happen at the time Jesus when Jesus has returned
    the people The LORD is referring to is ISRAEL and Judah
    "“when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah."
    Since much of Israel and Judah at this time still reject Jesus as LORD - this prophecy is still in the future when Jesus returns to earth.
    Israel will go through a punishment before Jesus returns because it is prophesied and the only way to get Israel to accept Jesus as LORD
    Jeremiah 31 is about the nation of Israel being brought unto Jesus as LORD because much of Israel not as of yet have accepted Him as LORD



    when you cherry pick scripture to make your amil doctrine work it will always fail
     
  9. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

    +4,897
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    On the day of Pentecost Peter addressed the crowd as "men of Judea", then as "men of Israel", and in Acts 2:36 as "all the house of Israel".
    Who do you think Peter was talking to on that day?

    You are a New Covenant denier, and claim the Sinai Covenant is still in effect.
    How many of the following verses have you cut out of your Bible?



    Jer_31:31 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—

    Mat_26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

    Mar_14:24 And He said to them, "This is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many.

    Luk_22:20 Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.

    1Co_11:25 In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me."

    2Co_3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

    Heb_8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH—

    Heb_8:13 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

    Heb_9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

    Heb_12:24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

    .
     
  10. seventysevens

    seventysevens Well-Known Member

    +829
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    lol you have not the understanding - You insist on ignoring scripture to ,make the failed amil doctrine work
    Jeremiah the prophet of GOD tells it plainly - but instead of accepting the truth of Jeremiah 31 you choose to ignore it and seek to find some other scripture ypu can twist and distort to make it fit the failed doctrine you lived by here is a post trhat also applies to what you believe , can you answer this question ?
    Can you Show me anywhere in the Scriptures where you think they have accepted Jesus as their Messiah ?
     
  11. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
    Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
    Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
    Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
    Act 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
    Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

    .
     
  12. seventysevens

    seventysevens Well-Known Member

    +829
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    Letting someone know does not mean they accept it - just as letting you know and you choose to ignore scripture - Just as Israel refuses the truth - so do you - until the remainder of the prophecies are fulfilled - then you will understand just as at that time Israel will then accept the truth
     
  13. jerry kelso

    jerry kelso Food For Thought

    +214
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    keras,

    1. You say there is no rapture to Heaven so do you believe we are raptured to the clouds and come back to earth for this scripture just says so shall we ever be with the Lord. However, we know we won’t stay in the clouds. State your belief and scripture.

    2. Genesis 15:4 says shall come out of his bowels which is physical descendants not spiritual descendants of gentiles.
    Your context is not there.

    3. Genesis 22:15-18; is talking about Israel because salvation is of the Jews as Paul said and they brought the Messiah to the earth. Also, read Acts 3:25: Ye are the children of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
    So you are wrong again about context.
    At the same time we are Abraham’s seed and will be Kings, Priests and rulers in the millennial kingdom Revelation 5:10 but this has nothing to do with Genesis 12:1-3 and the gifts and callings that are without repentance Romans 11:29. It doesn’t have nothing to do with 2 Samuel 7:16-13 and 1 Chronicles 28:1-8.
    Wrong Context again.

    4. Isaiah 56:8 is talking nothing about being inheritants of the land of Israel or the throne belong to gentiles.
    Neither does Revelation 5:10.
    Bringing people to Israel saved or unsaved to pray etc. is not the same as Israel’s ownership of the land and the Kingdom.
    You are trying to contrive the spiritual seed of all men with inheriting Israel which is not true.
    Inheriting is not the same as a visit or a stay etc. Inheritance is about ownership of the physical land and the throne.
    This is why Jesus said to the Jews; Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth Matthew 5:5.
    The Jews were backslidden and Jesus said, Repent for the KoH is at hand Matthew 4:17. This was about the Davidic Covenant.
    These have never been offered to the church.
    The true church is never backslidden and doesn’t have to be purified in Jacob’s trouble Jeremiah 30:7.

    5. Isaiah 48:1-10 says nothing or means nothing about the church being the seed of Abraham in this passage.
    Galatians 3:29 and all Of chapter 3 and the whole book of Galatians is talking about the spiritual seed basically but has no connection to the land and the throne of the land of Israel.

    6. Summoning to the 4 corners is not in Galatians but in Matthew 24:31 and this the Jewish remnant.

    7. Amos 9:9; is about not utterly destroying the house of Jacob which is Israel and the sifting of them to come back to God not allowing sinners to center the Holy land.

    8. Ezekiel 20:35-38 plucking out the rebels. What does this have to do with the KoH program being inherited by the Gentiles or the church? Nothing!!!!!!!!!!

    9. All you are doing is spiritualizing Scripture and taking things out of context and have wrong definitions of words. There is no scripture that says there is any transfer of the KoH promises of Israel to thechurch. This is replacement Theology and is wrong. Jerry kelso
     
  14. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.


    Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.



    .
     
  15. seventysevens

    seventysevens Well-Known Member

    +829
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    AS ALWAYS you persist in misunderstandings and bring up scriptures that don't apply to the matter at hand - because you are not able to distinguish there is Israel that has not yet become part of the church - your failed doctrine - Israel has not yet accepted the new covenant but will in the future when Jesus returns - until you accept that fact you will always misunderstand !
     
  16. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Jas 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
    Jas 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
    Jas 1:3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.




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  17. seventysevens

    seventysevens Well-Known Member

    +829
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    In Relationship
    Why is it that you persist in ignoring scripture that refutes your failed doctrine ?
    so now you just throwing out any video and any scripture that has nothing to do with the matter at hand simply to try to cover up the fact that you refuse to accept the fact of scripture that has refuted what you say :)
     
  18. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

    +1,606
    New Zealand
    Pentecostal
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    Try to actually read and understand what Jesus came here for, Jerry
    You have a very fixed belief of a future Jewish redemption. This is necessary for the 'rapture to heaven' of the Church to work. All quite wrong and without any scriptural support.
    There isn't a 'replacement', but a grafting in, along with all of Israel who have accepted Jesus. There is only ONE people of God. Ephesians 4:4-6

    Ephesians 1:11-14 In Christ we have been given our share in the heritage, as was decreed in His design …for it was God’s will that we, who were the first to set our hope on Jesus and to praise His glory.
    And, in Christ, you Christians also, once you believed and received the Holy Spirit, the promise of the inheritance that will be ours, when God has redeemed all of His own, to His glory and praise.

    Ephesians 3:6 Through the Gospel, the Gentiles are joint heirs with the Jews, part of the same body, sharers together in the promises made through Jesus.

    Romans 8:16-17 The Spirit of God affirms that we are His children and if children, then also the heirs of God and fellow heirs with Jesus, but we must share His suffering if we are to share His glory.

    Romans 8:19 The Created universe is waiting with eager expectation for God’s sons to be revealed.

    Our greatest heritage as born again Christians is the promise of eternal life. John 3:16,Titus 3:5-7, + But we also inherit the Land promises, Psalms 37:29, Ezekiel 36:8-12, Ezekiel 34:11-31 It is we Christians, from every tribe, race, nation and language, that are the vast multitude seen waving palm branches in Jerusalem. Revelation 7:9

    The ones who have passed thru the great ordeal of the Sixth Seal disaster and have earned the white garments by standing firm in our faith. Revelation 7:14

    Note: in Romans 8:19, that God’s children are not yet made known, Jesus will come with His winnowing fork and sift the wheat from the chaff. Matthew 3:12 Those Christians who stood strong in their faith when He comes in fire, Luke 12:49, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-8, are the wheat that will be gathered into the granary of the holy Land. The chaff of the ungodly peoples will be as ashes under our feet. Isaiah 66:17, Malachi 4:3, 2 Peter 3:7
     
  19. jerry kelso

    jerry kelso Food For Thought

    +214
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    keras,

    1. Jesus came to save the world John 3:16.
    Ephesians 1:4-5 is being chosen from the foundation of the world to be holy and without blame and the predestination unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ.

    2. 2 Samuel 7:13-16; 1 Chronicles 28:1-8 was Israel’s eternal covenants through Abraham (land) David (throne).

    3. The Old Testament promise of the KoH reign on reign was for Israel with Messiah at the head Isaiah 9:6-7...... Unto us a child is born and the government shall be upon his shoulders. This was to happen in Jesus Day.
    This was Jesus message to the Jews of the KoH and the KoG. They were under the Mosaic law and backslidden Matthew 4:17 Repent for the KoH is at hand.
    He preached only to the lost sheep of Israel Matthew 10:6-7.
    It wasn’t a message to the Church for there was no church.
    Israel was to be the salt of the earth but if the lost its savor it was no go good but to be trodden down under the feet of men. This is not the church for after the Jewish rejection Jesus said the gates of hell shall never prevail against the church.
    Jesus didn’t preach his death and resurrection during the KoH and KoG message.
    A few days before the cross Peter didn’t even know what Jesus was talking about and Christ rebuked him for not savoring the plan of God because Satan was using him as a tool Matthew 16:21-23.

    4. Jesus had to offer the KoH reign and so it was valid.
    The problem was that there was no prophecy that said they would repent as a nation and they didn’t Matthew 23:37-39 though Christ yearned for that to happen.

    5. The NC was only promised to Israel officially Jeremiah 31:31-34.
    Israel rejected Christ and salvation came to the Gentiles so they could be grafted in and provoke Israel to Jealousy Roman’s 11:11.

    6. The kingdom program was temporarily finished and the restoration would not happen til God the father says its time Acts 1:6-7.

    7. The church is still in effect till the time of the Gentiles (the church) be fulfilled Roman’s 11:25.
    Then the KoH will be the initiative for Israel to come back to God.

    8. The church are one people. Ephesians 2:14-15.
    This doesn’t contradict that Israel and Judah are two sticks and will become one to enter into the eternal KoH Covenants pertains to the KoH reign on earth. They have to become New Covenant Believers and they will.

    9. The righteous shall inherit the land is talking to Israel in Psalms 37:29. Verse 11 of that same chapter says the meek shall inherit the earth which Jesus said in Matthew 5:5 to Israel.
    You are cherry picking a scripture here a scripture there and using it in a general usuage and as a straw man and out of context.
    Ezekiel 34:11-31;This whole passage is about Israel not the church.
    The true church is not lost and have not been driven away v16.
    You are spiritualizing again.

    10. Revelation 7:9-12 are the saints in Heaven, not on earth forthright four beasts and the angels and elders have already been in Heaven before the tribulation started Revelation 4-5.
    Verse 13-17 is about the tribulation saints on earth who John didn’t know. There is no tribulation in Heaven to come out of. Verse 15 shows they will be before the throne of God after the First Resurrection Revelation 20:4.
    Revelation 6:9-11; 7:13; 13;7; 15:1-2 all these companies are tribulation saints not the church age saints who are in Heaven. All saints including the tribulasaints will be in time for the Marriage of the Lamb Revelation 19:7-10 before they come out of Heaven to make war at Armageddon Revelation 19:11-21.

    11. Luke 24:9; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-8 says nothing about us being wheat to be carried off to the granary of the Holy land.
    What Bible are you reading?

    12. In conclusion there is no scriptures that say the church will have the same position of authority or that they will own the land of Israel or inhabit the throne of David.
    There will be one people of God spiritually under the New Covenant.
    We are grafted in now as the church but we will be raptured so Israel can fulfill their covenants.
    Even if we were to go through the tribulation the Jews would still take their place in their covenants in the KoH reign that is different from the churches.
    The church is one body of Christ but there are different positions of authority. You have a problem with that?
    Quit being so illogical to the scriptures.
    Jerry kelso
     
  20. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

    +4,897
    Christian
    Married
    A doctrine built on a difference that does not exist, cannot be correct.




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