seventysevens
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I did NOT say anything at all about fetal alcohol syndrome
I was not at all speaking in any way at all of fetal or a fetus or FAS or FASD
You don't read well either , you understand even less
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7th Trumpet Rapture?
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I was not at all speaking in any way at all of fetal or a fetus or FAS or FASD
I have to confess that I don't gasp it either...because I take a deep breath first.
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jerry kelso
Food For Thought
jgr,
1. If you are using Romans 2:9; but he is a Jew, which is one inwardly....to base the church being the Israel of God in Galatians 6:16 you are wrong.
The context is spoken to the ethnic Jew, verse 24: For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you as it is written.
2. Verse 15 shows neither circumcision (ethnic Jew and the Old Testament sign and ritual) or uncircumcision (ethnic Gentile) matter as a saved person for it is being a new creature in Christ.
Ephesians 2:14-15 the veil was rent to make one new man of equals among Jews and Gentiles.
3. Some would say verse 16 would naturally follow verse 15 and mean the whole church.
It does mean the whole church overall.
However, it is grammatically in two parts.
The first part is; And as many as Walk accordingly to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy.
The second part is started with a conjunction word “ and “ that makes it separate from the first part.
And upon the Israel of God.
Galatians 6:12: As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.
Verse 13: For neither they themselves are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised that they may glory in your flesh.
Their were Judaizers among or in the Galatian church.
Verse 16 implies there were true ethnic Jews in the Galatian church.
The biggest issue in Galatians is about circumcision which was a Jewish ritual of the Old Testament. To be honest, there would be no reason to separate the Jew (circumcision) and Gentile (uncircumcision) in verse 15 and not separate it in verse 16 also.
4. Paul in Romans 9:30 used Gentiles (ethnic). Erase 31 he used Israel ( ethnic)
In 11:1,2,5,7, Paul used the usage of ethnic Israel. Verses 11:11,12,13 he used ethnic Gentiles.
Verse 25; blindness of Israel (ethnic) fullness of Gentiles
(ethnic).
Verse 26; All Israel (ethnic).
Romans 10:1, Paul’s heart and desire and prayer is for God to save Israel the ethnic nation which goes along with Romans 11:1 Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I am also an Israelite, Of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
5. Romans 5:17, Ephesians 2:6 and 4:26 all refer to the church but not the Israel of God in proper context. Jerry Kelso
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jerry kelso
Food For Thought
jgr,
1. The first part is correct.
The second part is wrong.
2. Read the whole chapter of Romans 9. Israel is separate from gentiles and Israel will be as the sand of the sea and the remnant will be saved.
3. Isaiah 11:11-12, Matthew 29:31 Jewish remnant.
Zechariah 12:10,13:1 and Revelation 1:7, with Jeremiah 31:31-34; Hebrews 7:13 show Israel will repent and receive the New Covenant.
4. Paul knew the eternal Covenants concerning Israel and he said in Romans 11:24 blindness is in part to Israel’s rebellious state but they would see again when the fullness of the Gentiles be come in. Rabbi Johnathan Burnis says this is the church meaning the church will drop out of the picture and Israel will come into play.
Verse 25 Paul says and all Israel will be saved. So Paul knew it would happen sooner or later.
You are wrong again. Jerry kelso
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Jerry,
The "all Israel" which is saved in Romans 11:26 is the same as the "all Israel" in Romans 9:6 which is distinguished from the "of Israel".
It refers to the remnant of Israel who put their faith in Christ.
Paul was in sorrow in Romans 9:2 knowing that only the remnant would be saved. There would have been no reason for his sorrow if he believed that the whole nation would be saved.
You blew it again.
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Is Rabbi Jonathan Bernis (sp.) aware that Israel is no longer genetically distinguishable, and that everyone on planet earth possesses some amount of Abraham's DNA? And that it is the Jewish religious and cultural community itself which acknowledges and applauds this?
Abraham lineage
DNA Tests Could Fulfill God’s Promise to Abraham by Revealing Millions of Jews. But How Jewish is Jewish Enough?
Israel in all of Us? Research finds 'Jewish genes' in unusual places
Undoubtedly he is. But to acknowledge it would mean the end of his racialized "two peoples of God" heterodoxy. So he must continue to perpetuate it. And as long as he has a multitude of uncomprehending dispensational adherents, he will be "successful". (Hosea 4:6)
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keras
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Your post contradicts itself; All ethnic Israel - then only a remnant saved.
Also your comments about people being wrong because they show how wrong you are, are becoming tiresome. You should be reported for flaming.
Romans 11:26-27, And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
The quotation Paul uses is from Isaiah 59:20 And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob
When the Bible says that ALL ISRAEL shall be saved in Romans 11:26-27, it refers to only a remnant of the Jewish people and all true Christians, now the Israel of God.
The message to the individual is that he or she must “turn from transgression” to the Lord. There will be a remnant that will turn to him. They will be saved. He speaks of the saved remnant as the nation Israel, the survivors!
Are the Jews still God's people? Yes, but only those who are both ethnic and spiritual Jews. Saved Gentiles have also been grafted into the tree and are now co-heirs of the promises of God to Israel. Galatians 3:26-29 The apostle Paul was a remnant Jew...
Romans 11:1, I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. Paul was an ethnic Israelite. Paul says that it's all by God's grace... Romans 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
In other words, by grace through faith, plus or minus nothing, in the Lord Jesus Christ. Only through faith in Jesus can anyone be a child of God. John 14:6
There is neither Jew nor Gentile in Christ. So we can divide all humanity into one or other of these two groups:
1/ Every godless unbeliever including the non-Christian Jews and:
2/ All Christian believers, Jews and Gentiles.; people from every race, nation and language. Isaiah 66:18b, Revelation 5:9-10
God never blesses wicked evildoers. When the Jews rejected Jesus, God gave them into the hands of their enemies, as in 70 AD. Then, for continuing in their disbelief; the many pogroms and the Holocaust. Now they face the third swing of the Sword, Ezekiel 21:1-16 and only the Christian remnant will survive.
Romans 11:1-2 and 19-23, I say then, Has God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God has not cast away his people which he foreknew…..You may say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and we Christians stand by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward you, blessing, so keep your faith: otherwise you also shalt be cut off. And they also, if they change their ways, shall be grafted back in: for God is able to graft them in again.
This Scripture plainly teaches that ONLY Jews who believe the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ will be grafted back into the tree as God's people. Jeremiah 12:14
God cut off Judah in 586 BC for their continuous and stiffnecked rebellion against His Word, even killing the prophets.
God still loves His people, His faithful people who obey Him, and any Jew can still be grafted back into the tree, but all Christ-rejecting Jews are NOT GOD'S PEOPLE. The Parable of the Vineyard shows how the ethnic Jewish people have lost their status. Matthew 21:33-46
About .025% of the Jews living in Israel today profess to be a Christian. Only a fool thinks that God loves the apostate, atheistic, gay pride, Christ rejecting Jews. These types are NOT God's people.
So only saved Jews are part of God's people, but most are saved Gentiles. Only believers in Jesus Christ can claim to be heirs of the promises of God originally given to Israel, but now applicable to every faithful Christian.
Galatians 3:29 proclaims this truth...And if you be Christ's, then are you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. Romans 8:16-17
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jerry kelso
Food For Thought
jgr,
1. I never said there was any sinful Jews in all Israel. So you accused me wrongly.
The major context of Romans 9-11 is about all Israel being saved.
2. Paul said, Romans 1:3: For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh.
Paul said, Romans 10:1; Brethren, my hearts desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
Paul said, I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, Of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Verse 2; God hath not castawayhis people which he foreknew.
3. All Israel will be saved Romans 11:26. Verse 26-29 is about all Israel being saved by having their sins forgiven them so they can enter into covenant and fulfill their gifts and callings.
You are the one blowing it because you won’t believe the truth. Jerry kelso
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Jerry,
Who are His people which he foreknew?
1 Peter 1:2
Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
They are the elect.
Who are the elect?
Romans 11:5
Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
They are the remnant who have been saved by grace through faith in Christ.
They are God's people whom He foreknew and has not cast away.
But they are not the whole nation, hence Paul's sorrow (Romans 9:2).
You blew it again.
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jerry kelso
Food For Thought
jgr,
1. Romans 9:6 are not all spiritual Israel.
Paul is sad that the rest were rejecting Christ who were his kinsmen of the flesh according to the flesh.
2. Romans 11:25 is all Spiritual Israel for God will deliver all and save them from their sins.
So you are wrong about Roman’s 9:6 and 11:25.
3. The reason for Paul’s sorrow was very sad emotionally for his kinsmen to the flesh; the whole of Israel the nation minus the remnant.
It was the same type of emotional sadness of Moses in Exodus 32:32.
So you are wrong again. Jerry kelso
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jerry kelso
Food For Thought
1. Romans 11:1 Hath God cast away his people.
These people are not the Jews in the church because God has not cast them away.
It is talking about the physical nation of Israel.
Romans 9:3 are the same as far as kinsmen according to the flesh who were the Israelites to whom pertaineth the adoption and the glory and the covenants and the giving of the law and the service of God and the promises....
2. Paul is speaking to the church in Rome.
Peter is talking the strangers in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bythynia.
Two separate authors and different sets of Jewish people in different areas.
I have already explained and rebutted your reason for Paul’s sorrow. You are wrong again. Jerry Kelso
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True. "They are not all (spiritual) Israel which are of (ethnic) Israel". Those of ethnic Israel who were rejecting Christ were not, and would not be, part of the remnant, hence his sadness. As with Moses, it was far more than emotional sadness. It was an intense sorrow of spirit, to the point of asking to be condemned if it would spiritually salvage his countrymen.
I presume you mean Romans 11:26.
True. The Israel who will be saved is spiritual Israel.
So neither of us is wrong.
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Jerry,
Paul clarifies 11:1 by ensuring that we understand whom he is referring to, in 11:2. Verses 3-5 make it clear that he is referring to believers, the remnant who have not "bowed to Baal".
Romans 9:3 refers to Israel's old covenant benefits and blessings. Salvation does not appear in the list.
You blew it again.
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Romans 9:3 gives further insight into the reason for Paul's sorrow. The old covenant blessings and benefits which God had showered upon Israel should have prepared it for ready and willing reception and acceptance of His New Covenant when it arrived.
But instead, they rejected it, except for the remnant who received and accepted it.
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jerry kelso
Food For Thought
Keras,
1. I’ve been told a lot harsher things.
I ask to be fair but it gets tiring when someone is put words in your mouth and who want them prove things by a couple scriptures instead of whole context and reconciling them together.
2. There is no contradiction because the eternal promises of Abraham concerning the land and David the throne were only given to the nation of Israel in the KoH reign, not to the church or part of the church. 2 Samuel 7:13-16; 1 Chronicles 28:1-8 This is a scriptural fact.
There is nowhere in scripture that it has changed.
3. Galatians 3:14: That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
This is the crux of this chapter of the gentile blessings which is salvation, not the KoH land and throne in the Abrahamic and Davidic Covenants Genesis 12:1-3; 2 Samuel 7:13-16; 1 Chronicles 28:1-8; Isaiah 2:2-4;9:6-7; Ezekiel 37:16-28. These are eternal covenants to the physical of Nations of Israel’s and Judah.
There is no replacement or continuance or partial ownership of the church with Israel concerning the land and the throne. They are not promised to the churches children and children’s children.
This doesn’t mean that the church will not be involved in rulership training on earth for 2 Timothy 2:12 shows this is what we are being trained for now.
It doesn’t mean no gentiles will not live in the land of Israel.
It doesn’t mean they will not visit the land of Israel for they will to celebrate the feasts.
It doesn’t mean they won’t have positions of authority in the government or not report to them in Jerusalem.
4. A Jewish remnant will be scattered Revelation 12:17; 11:13. This scattering happens in the middle of the tribulation. Why? Because Satan who chases them is fixing to give his kingdom to the Antichrist Revelation 12:3; 13:1-2. Here the remnant of her seed will be believers Revelation 12:17.
Matthew 29:31 are the Jewish remnant that will be gathered from the four corners of the earth when Christ comes back.
This will be the elect Jewish remnant from the four winds of Heaven which is actually earth.
Then there is still the main body of Israel preserved safely in the wilderness. These will repent and God will write his laws into their minds and hearts and the time of Jacob’s trouble will end and all Israel will be saved and be received into the KoH reign with their land and David as their prince and Jesus as their King and the Holy City will be capital of the earth etc.
5. The church is never called Israel.
Romans 2:9 is talking directly to Jews are real Jews if they are saved. Paul never used this as a whole doctrine for the church to Israel’s place as in the extreme spiritual Jew doctrine.
Galatians 6:16 grammatically, is separate. Verse 15; there is no Jew (circumcision) or Gentile (Uncircumcision) doesn’t matter in the church for everyone is on the same level ground Ephesians 2:14-15.
The galatian church had Jews in it.
Galatians 6:12-13 shows the judaizers (bad Jews) trying to get the good Jews and the gentile Galatians back under the law mentality of physical circumcision.
This is why Paul in verse 16 separated and as many as Walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and Mercy, and upon the Israel of God.
The word “and” is the conjunction that separates the two parties. This Israel of God follows in line with Romans 2:9 which is speaking directly to the Jews. That is proper context!
6. Isaiah 66:18; Revelation 5:9 have nothing to do with the church inheriting the KoH reign promises concerning the land and the throne.
The church will be raptured before the tribulation Revelation 4:1;5:9-10. This is when the fullness of the Gentiles will come in which is the church Romans 11:25. This is the time when things will shift prophetically to the time of Jacob’s trouble and the restoration of Israel’s land and throne and then the millennial KoH reign will begin.
7. God said that he would make Israel desolate and he did in 70 A.D. But that was wasn’t permanent.
In 1948 they became a nation. They are still backslidden today and there nation will almost be sniffed out but God will prevail and save them and restore them. Read the book of Joel.
The restoration of Israel and entering their KoH blessings of the land and the throne will s connected with the KoH reign on earth.
The Bible states these were unconditionally eternal covenants to physical Israel. This means they will happen. The only condition was repentance. It doesn’t matter that they are backslidden right now in the church age they eventually will Romans 11:25-9.
Matthew 29:34: Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
8. Galatians 3:29 is about salvation not the KoH reign promises about the land and the throne. Jerry kelso
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Jas 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.
Jas 1:2 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
Jas 1:3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
the twelve tribes = Israel
.
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jerry kelso
Food For Thought
The 12 tribes are Israel and James ministry was to the Jews under the New Covenant.
Most all the early church was nothing but Jews.
Jews had a remnant Of Grace according to Paul .
Paul preached to the Jews before he went to the Gentiles.
2. James wasn’t calling Jews and Gentiles of the church Israel. He was only speaking to Jews.
The 12 tribes were still there and punished til 70 A.D.
3. The problem you have admitting is the KoH message was over before the Dayof Pentecost Matthew 23:37-37; Acts 1:6-7.
So your back door answer of association don’t work.
jerry Kelso
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keras
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Who is the true Israel of God?
Who are the legitimate heirs of God’s promises? It isn’t those who claim to be descendants of Jacob, such as the citizens of the modern State of Israel, or the many people groups who assert they are the ‘lost tribes’, etc.
The true Israelites of God are those individuals who meet the Covenant conditions, who by belief in God and in their moral and ethical behaviour, prove they belong to Him. 1 Peter 2:9-10
It was always possible for foreigners to join Israel, therefore parentage and actual descent is irrelevant:
Leviticus 19:33-34…foreigners are to be treated as native born among you…..
Isaiah 56:1-8….foreigners who give their allegiance to Me will be acceptable in My House of Prayer…..I shall add them to those who are already gathered.
Jesus said: Other sheep I must gather….John 19:16 and the Apostles made it clear that it is only by righteousness and faith that anyone is counted into the House of Israel. Romans 9:6-9, Galatians 3:26-29, Ephesians 2:11-18
So to determine who qualifies as an Israelite person of God, we know:
1/ They cannot be determined by natural descent from Abraham, or more specifically, from Jacob. There are no proofs of ancestry back to Abraham extant today.
2/ They cannot become an Israelite by conversion to Judaism.
3/ Any person can become an Israelite of God by faith in Him, obedience to His Laws and the acceptance of the atoning sacrifice of Jesus. John 3:16-17
Jesus is the ‘root and tree trunk’ of Israel. Paul said that the promises made to Abraham were to one Person and they are all ‘yes’ in Christ. Galatians 3:16, 2 Cor. 1:20
So now all we Christians, in Christ as His friends and working with Him, are now the branches of the ‘olive tree’ of the true Israel. Jews have been cut off, but can be grafted back, as individual Christian believers. Bible prophecy proves that only a remnant will do that. Ezekiel 6:1-14, Zechariah 13:7-9, Romans 9:27
WE Christians are all true born again people from every tribe, race, nation and language. Romans 2:28-29, Revelation 5:9-10, Isaiah 56:1-8
This truth that all righteous Christians are the Israel of God, Galatians 6:16, destroys the false ‘rapture to heaven’ theory. We will never go to live in heaven, but eventually heaven comes down to earth. Revelation 20:4
The prophesies about Judah, the Jewish people, are clear: only a remnant will survive. Isaiah 6:13, Luke 19:27 They have set up their own religion and refuse to acknowledge Jesus. Romans 10:1-4
It will be all the true, righteous Christian people that will inherit the holy Land and they are the people who will display God’s glory and be His witnesses to the nations, in the last few years before Jesus Returns. Ezekiel 39:21-29, Isaiah 66:18b-21, Isaiah 49:8-13, Ephesians 1:11, Romans 9:24-26
Who are the legitimate heirs of God’s promises? It isn’t those who claim to be descendants of Jacob, such as the citizens of the modern State of Israel, or the many people groups who assert they are the ‘lost tribes’, etc.
The true Israelites of God are those individuals who meet the Covenant conditions, who by belief in God and in their moral and ethical behaviour, prove they belong to Him. 1 Peter 2:9-10
It was always possible for foreigners to join Israel, therefore parentage and actual descent is irrelevant:
Leviticus 19:33-34…foreigners are to be treated as native born among you…..
Isaiah 56:1-8….foreigners who give their allegiance to Me will be acceptable in My House of Prayer…..I shall add them to those who are already gathered.
Jesus said: Other sheep I must gather….John 19:16 and the Apostles made it clear that it is only by righteousness and faith that anyone is counted into the House of Israel. Romans 9:6-9, Galatians 3:26-29, Ephesians 2:11-18
So to determine who qualifies as an Israelite person of God, we know:
1/ They cannot be determined by natural descent from Abraham, or more specifically, from Jacob. There are no proofs of ancestry back to Abraham extant today.
2/ They cannot become an Israelite by conversion to Judaism.
3/ Any person can become an Israelite of God by faith in Him, obedience to His Laws and the acceptance of the atoning sacrifice of Jesus. John 3:16-17
Jesus is the ‘root and tree trunk’ of Israel. Paul said that the promises made to Abraham were to one Person and they are all ‘yes’ in Christ. Galatians 3:16, 2 Cor. 1:20
So now all we Christians, in Christ as His friends and working with Him, are now the branches of the ‘olive tree’ of the true Israel. Jews have been cut off, but can be grafted back, as individual Christian believers. Bible prophecy proves that only a remnant will do that. Ezekiel 6:1-14, Zechariah 13:7-9, Romans 9:27
WE Christians are all true born again people from every tribe, race, nation and language. Romans 2:28-29, Revelation 5:9-10, Isaiah 56:1-8
This truth that all righteous Christians are the Israel of God, Galatians 6:16, destroys the false ‘rapture to heaven’ theory. We will never go to live in heaven, but eventually heaven comes down to earth. Revelation 20:4
The prophesies about Judah, the Jewish people, are clear: only a remnant will survive. Isaiah 6:13, Luke 19:27 They have set up their own religion and refuse to acknowledge Jesus. Romans 10:1-4
It will be all the true, righteous Christian people that will inherit the holy Land and they are the people who will display God’s glory and be His witnesses to the nations, in the last few years before Jesus Returns. Ezekiel 39:21-29, Isaiah 66:18b-21, Isaiah 49:8-13, Ephesians 1:11, Romans 9:24-26
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Jerry,
The 12 tribes were comprised of both Jews and Gentiles from the beginning of covenant history.
Genesis 17:12
And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.
Keras has cited additional confirming Scriptures.
God's chosen covenant people have been multiethnic from the beginning.
And they were included in James' letter to "my brethren" of the twelve tribes.
You blew it again.
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