78% of American Evangelicals believe Jesus is a created being-survey

lismore

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I was looking at this survey:

The State of Theology

Jesus is the first and greatest being created by God.

Finding:2018: 78% agree vs. 18% disagree
2016: 71% agree vs. 23% disagree


Do you think this is a sign of the times we're living in? The Great Falling away?

God Bless :crossrc:
 

sfs

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Do you think this is a sign of the times we're living in? The Great Falling away?
No, I don't. I think the majority of Christians in most times and places have had a shaky grasp of the theological positions held by their churches.
 
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crossnote

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I was looking at this survey:

The State of Theology

Jesus is the first and greatest being created by God.

Finding:2018: 78% agree vs. 18% disagree
2016: 71% agree vs. 23% disagree

Do you think this is a sign of the times we're living in? The Great Falling away?

God Bless :crossrc:
Ligonier Ministries have been around for a number of decades. Too bad they hadn't taken samples of that question throughout the years. It would be a better indicator.
 
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hedrick

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When looking at this, you might want to consider that the question is a near restatement of Col 1:15: "He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation".

The same term, "first-born," was used in Jewish speculation about Wisdom, which is the basis for John 1:1.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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I was looking at this survey:

The State of Theology

Jesus is the first and greatest being created by God.

Finding:2018: 78% agree vs. 18% disagree
2016: 71% agree vs. 23% disagree

Do you think this is a sign of the times we're living in? The Great Falling away?

God Bless :crossrc:

...I do think we're in a time of Falling Away, but not because a number of folks may be confused as to what Jesus' full nature entails. :rolleyes:
 
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bekkilyn

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I've seen that survey before too and don't have trouble believing that they would see Jesus as a created being. Many Evangelicals have some pretty unorthodox views concerning the Trinity (and Jesus' place in it) as well.
 
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com7fy8

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Jesus calls Himself "the beginning of the creation of God", in Revelation 3:14; so how do people understand this?

Our Apostle Paul says Jesus is "the firstborn over all creation," in Colossians 1:15.

And our Apostle John says "without Him nothing was made which was made," in John 1:3.
 
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Brian Mcnamee

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Yes I do think it is a bad sign for sure. The generation that is here for the tribulation will largely accept the antichirst. He is coming saying peace and safety, probably equality and coexist too. If you think Jesus was created this manifestation of another man with lying signs and wonders too will be hard for many to discern that this is the son of perdition. The falling away in other passages has details like the love of many grows cold, that we would not longer endure sound doctrine. That some would turn away from the faith and embrace doctrines of demons. A teaching that Jesus is less than God incarnate equal with the Father both from everlasting is a doctrine of demons. There are many are false teachings that are being brought is with sentiment that is nice replacing scripture that is sure. The more the church resembles the world the more apostate it will be. Jesus is now another incarnation of the christ spirit or one of the ascended master is certainly a tenant that can be used to merge all the worlds religions.
 
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lismore

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A Christian couple I know have been celebrating ramadan lately, to stand with some of their friends, who are muslim. Ramadan celebrates the supposed revelation of Allah to Mohammed, another gospel.

A female Politician in the 'Conservative' party lately stated that she is looking forward to getting married to her wife in their church. So far I have not heard a single voice raise a dissenting opinion about this.

78% of American 'Evangelicals' don't know who Jesus is. Jesus said- 'if you do not believe I am who I say I am, you will indeed die in your sins'.

There are many in the churches into extremely odd beliefs- we surely must be in the last days. When the Lord comes will he still find faith in the earth? :)
 
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Handmaid for Jesus

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Do you think this is a sign of the times we're living in? The Great Falling away?
Quite possibly.I think it could be showing the dividing of the wheat from the tares
 
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Alithis

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I was looking at this survey:

The State of Theology

Jesus is the first and greatest being created by God.

Finding:2018: 78% agree vs. 18% disagree
2016: 71% agree vs. 23% disagree

Do you think this is a sign of the times we're living in? The Great Falling away?

God Bless :crossrc:
I would hazard to say it is definitely a sign ( an indication) of the nature of the times...

It is a great falling away when 70+% have Down graded the everlasting word of God by whom all things are created (including mary) to a mere created being and so deny the son.
I noted this morning that the son or perdition who is to be revealed Before Jesus comes ( Thessalonians) seats himself in the temple of God...
As i read it i suddenly realized it may not be a physical temple... But the temple of the collective peoole who claim to be christian ..but are in fact unified with the unholiness of man made organisations..
The temple of the assemblies ..the body of christ which has not forsaken thier sin but have by thier disobedience become deluded .
This may be the temple the beast sits in ...seeking that all who worship, worship him ...usurping glory
The very thing the advarsary tried and was cast out for.

This is a scary thought... That so very many who claim to be of Christ have in fact enthroned the Spirit of Antichrist in thier hesrts snd assemblies...
 
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jiminpa

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Ligonier Ministries have been around for a number of decades. Too bad they hadn't taken samples of that question throughout the years. It would be a better indicator.
Do you mean, that questioning followers of rc sproul would show just how far some can stray from God's word and still consider themselves "Christian? "
 
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Do you mean, that questioning followers of rc sproul would show just how far some can stray from God's word and still consider themselves "Christian? "
The link in the OP takes you to a Ligonier 'the state of theology' website. I don't think they question RC Sproul followers neither would I expect them to. Here is the opening Statement...
What do Americans think about God, Jesus Christ, sin, and eternity? Ligonier Ministries’ State of Theology survey helps uncover the answers. Every two years, we take the theological temperature of the United States to help Christians better understand today’s culture and equip the church with better insights for discipleship. Read some of our key findings from 2018 below and explore the data for yourself.
But they only have listed a two year sample. I wouldn't make any conclusions concerning trends from that.
 
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Some of the questions seem intentionally leading. Take for example the topics question.

"Jesus is the first and greatest being created by God."

It's a complex question holding to three things - first, greatest, created. They also formulated the sentence structure to draw your acceptance on the first two while seeing "created" as merely a verb rather than a point for agreement or disagreement. If you chose disagree it doesn't state which of the three you disagree with, making it sound like you disagree with His primacy and greatness which no one will want to deny.

A proper question for a poll would be. "Was Jesus created by God."

 
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SavedByGrace3

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The scriptures indicate that a person "in the loins" of an ancestor is indeed a person. Several OT passages can be translated and interpreted that the Son being in the loins of the Father means He existed even before He was actually begotten.

Heb 7:9-10
9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.
10 For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.



From the book "A Revelation of who Jesus Is"

The Womb of God

It sounds odd to say God has a “womb.” In this case the concept is metaphorical. The concept is used in the context that the Son existed in the bosom of the Father and “issued forth” from the Father. Therefore the Word/Son is of the same substance and identity as the Father.

Traditionally, Christians have taken Psalm 110 to be the words of the Father to the Son. From verse 1:

“The Lord said to my lord…

The immediate, pre-creation relationship of the Word is described as a child in the womb of God.

Psalms 110:1 (Brenton - Septuagint)
"The Lord said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. The Lord shall send out a rod of power for thee out of Sion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies. With thee is dominion in the day of thy power, in the splendours of thy saints: I have begotten thee from the womb before the morning."

Psalms 110:3 (Lamsa translation)
"Thy people shall be glorious in the day of thy power; arrayed in the beauty of holiness from the womb, I have begotten thee as a child from the ages."

Psalms 110:3 Darby
3 With thee is the principality in the day of thy strength: in the brightness of the saints: from the womb before the day star I begot thee.

“out of my womb before the morning star I bore you.”
Augustine of Hippo

This was the understanding of other early Church fathers.

"From the womb, before the morning star, have I begotten thee."
Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho

"In the splendors of Thy holiness have I begotten Thee from the womb, before the morning star."
Justin Martyr, Dialogue with TryphoI

“One must believe that the Son is begotten and born not from nothing, nor from some other substance, but from the womb of the Father [de Patris uter], that is, from his substance.”
Church Council of Toledo 675

(In Latin, “de Patris utero” — literally, from the uterus of the Father.)


"…it is said, ‘He who is in the bosom of the Father hath declared Him’ (John 1:18). But that which is the womb, is the bosom also. What meaneth, 'from the womb'? (Ps 110:3) From what is secret, from what is hidden; from Myself, from My substance; this is the meaning of 'from the womb.' Let us then understand the Father saying unto the Son, 'From my womb before the morning star I have brought Thee forth."
Augustine of Hippo

“The term derives from John 1:18, ‘No one has ever seen God; the only Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, has made him known.” The Greek text here has kolpos, ‘bosom’, but the early Syriac translators chose to render the word, not by kenpa, ’lap bosom’, but by ‘ubba’, which has a much wider range of meaning than does kolpos, and includes ‘womb’ as well as ‘lap’.
Sebastian Brock
University of Oxford
“The Luminous Eye”

The earliest Syriac version of John 1:18 reads,

‘the only-begotten Son, which is from the womb of the Father,’

This wording was kept in the Peshitta version.

Let us reiterate that we are in no wise suggesting that God is female or that He has an actual womb such as a human woman. Only that this term is used several times by the ancients to describe the “begetting” of the Son from the Father. In the beginning the word was within the person of God and was born out of God. We will expound on this relationship further.
 
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RDKirk

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C.S. Lewis said Jesus was not created, but begotten. I don't particularly consider it a falling away just because most evangelicals get hung up on the wording.

There are also enticements to debate wording with regard to "Jesus" and "God."

The Son is uncreated. The flesh of Jesus the man is certainly "created" and did not exist before the incarnation of the Son.

The Son also created all that has been created, and all that was created was by the Son...which includes the flesh of Jesus the man.

And the Son is God, so that the flesh of Jesus the man was created by God.
 
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SavedByGrace3

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There are also enticements to debate wording with regard to "Jesus" and "God."

The Son is uncreated. The flesh of Jesus the man is certainly "created" and did not exist before the incarnation of the Son.

The Son also created all that has been created, and all that was created was by the Son...which includes the flesh of Jesus the man.

And the Son is God, so that the flesh of Jesus the man was created by God.
Yes
Hebrews 10:5
Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
 
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com7fy8

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Jesus is the first and greatest being created by God.

Finding:2018: 78% agree vs. 18% disagree
2016: 71% agree vs. 23% disagree


Do you think this is a sign of the times we're living in?
Do the 78% and the 71% believe the Bible is God's word?

the Son being in the loins of the Father means He existed even before He was actually begotten.
And there is a big difference between God loving us by giving His own Son, versus giving us a creature.
 
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