70 week in Daniel fulfilled Jesus first coming

[Daniel Marsh]

Hi, I disagree that Daniels 70 weeks are fulfilled in the first advent and contend the 70th week is still future. The arguments for it being fulfilled are not without merit and I can see how some can hold that view. The 6 precepts accomplished in Daniels 70th week are in the context of being determined for Daniels people and the holy city Jerusalem and if we look at the parallel passages about Daniels people and Jerusalem it makes more sense that it is future.

Here are the six precepts accomplished in the 70 weeks.

“Seventy weeks[fn] are determined
For your people and for your holy city,
To finish the transgression,
To make an end of[fn] sins,
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness,
To seal up vision and prophecy,
And to anoint the Most Holy.

Now if we think of all the other prophecy about Daniels people and Jerusalem I think it becomes clear that the abomination of desolation is future and the sacrifices will be resumed and the man of sin revealed in the temple is the beast of Rev 13 and he has 42 months of power which would be the middle of the week. Dan 7 notes the same timeline of the pompous one persecuting for a time times and half a time until the kingdom is given to one like the son of man who is before the ancient of days and he has the kingdom that covers the earth and has no end. This points to the second coming.

Jer 3 on Jerusalem and Daniels people.

14 “Return, O backsliding children,” says the LORD; “for I am married to you. I will take you, one from a city and two from a family, and I will bring you to Zion. 15 And I will give you shepherds according to My heart, who will feed you with knowledge and understanding.
16 “Then it shall come to pass, when you are multiplied and increased in the land in those days,” says the LORD, “that they will say no more, ‘The ark of the covenant of the LORD.’ It shall not come to mind, nor shall they remember it, nor shall they visit it, nor shall it be made anymore.
17 “At that time Jerusalem shall be called The Throne of the LORD, and all the nations shall be gathered to it, to the name of the LORD, to Jerusalem. No more shall they follow the dictates of their evil hearts.
18 “In those days the house of Judah shall walk with the house of Israel, and they shall come together out of the land of the north to the land that I have given as an inheritance to your fathers.

Now when is the throne of the LORD established? Zech 14 shows the 2nd coming and the LORD is king over all the earth. The Mt of Olives splits in two and a new river forms that one branch flows east which would take it into the dead sea which when you get to Ezekiel 47 we see the dead sea is promised to be healed and a prosperous fishing town and at that same time the 12 tribes receive their inheritance within the known borders of Israel. You see if you look at Luke 1 Jesus mission is clearly spelled out and he is to take the throne f David and reign forever. He is also noted to keep the covenants oaths, promises and prophecies that Israel will be delivered from their enemies and then worship and serve the LORD now in holiness all the days of their lives.

Again the 2nd coming regarding Daniels people and he holy city. Ad to that Isaiah 61 the day of vengeance of our God and the same before and after story of Daniels people and the holy city is told again. This may seem like an long answer but Ive barely touched the many verses that tell the same before and after story.

Hi Brother, I know from the Hebrew that there is no long term break between the 69 and 70 week. The one day equals a year is well established. How so you stretch a year into 2,000 plus years? Where in scripture do you see such a stretch elsewhere? I do not see that anywhere friend.

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

Hi thanks for taking the time to respond and I do appreciate the dialogue.

Jer 31 notes that the city is built when the valley is full of dead bodies and then declares it is now holy and will not be uprooted or overthrown again. Now this rebuilding is introduced in chapter 30 and again it is stipulated that this is a latter day prophecy and it occurs at the time David is raised up. Now think about the structure of chapter 30 and 31. The new covenant is glorious and I agree that it is fully instituted. Why would God immediately after this promised new covenant place right next to it two promises that Israel would not cease to be a nation and God would not cast off their seed for all they have done? This is followed by a rebuilding that from that time will never be overthrown. The Lord know He would be rejected and know Jerusalem would be destroyed as well as the temple. Jer 31 is anticipating that the new covenant coming in will cause some to question weather Israel is a nation and claim God cut them off for what they have done. This rebuilding in Jer 31 is after the day of Jacobs trouble when he is saved out of it. It promises to never be thrown down again so there is a contradiction in your view.

In Daniel 9 Daniels people and the holy city end up mostly destroyed and wiped out after Jesus 1st advent by 70 AD which is included as an add for for when the Messiah was cut off the city and sanctuary are destroyed. Now If Daniels 70th week is seeing to the 3rd temple and that week begins with the prince to come being the antichrist who commits the abomination of desolation in the temple you have now a timeline with the sacrifice being stopped in the middle of the week. At the end of the week 42 months later what happens in Rev? Jesus comes and destroys the armies of antichrist and is king over all the earth. In Dan 7 persecution is going on for a time times and half a time and the kingdom comes.

The details are not specifically listed in Dan 9 but Jerusalem in now the throne of the LORD and Satan is bound those who were not the LORD's people are now sons of the living God. The sealing up of the prophecy is complete as Jesus has now fulfilled them all and is king and the Jews will say in that day the LORD is one. The before and after of Daniels people and the Holy city is future and it will come 42 months after Rev 13.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

Jeremiah 31
Easy-to-Read Version
The New Israel
31 This is what the Lord said, “At that time I will be the God of all the tribes of Israel. And they will be my people.”

2 This is what the Lord says:
“The people who escaped the enemy’s sword will find comfort in the desert.
Israel will go there looking for rest.”
3 From far away, the Lord
will appear to his people.

The Lord says, “I love you people with a love that continues forever.
That is why I have continued showing you kindness.
4 Israel, my bride, I will rebuild you.
You will be a country again.
You will pick up your tambourines again.
You will dance with all the other people who are having fun.
5 You farmers of Israel will plant vineyards again.
You will plant the vineyards on the hills around the city of Samaria.
The farmers will enjoy the fruit from the vineyards.
6 There will be a time when watchmen[a] shout this message:
‘Come, let’s go up to Zion to worship the Lord our God!’
Even the watchmen in the hill country of Ephraim will shout that message.”

7 This is what the Lord says:
“Be happy and sing for Jacob!
Shout for Israel, the greatest of the nations!
Sing your praises and shout:
‘Lord, save your people![c]
Save those who are left alive from the nation of Israel.’
8 Remember, I will bring Israel
from that country in the north.
I will gather the people of Israel
from the faraway places on earth.
Some of the people will be blind and crippled.
Some of the women will be pregnant and ready to give birth.
But many people will come back.
9 They will come back crying,
but I will lead them and comfort them.
I will lead them by streams of water.
I will lead them on an easy road,
where they will not stumble.
I will lead them in that way because I am Israel’s father.
And Ephraim is my firstborn son.

10 “Nations, listen to this message from the Lord!
Tell this message in the faraway lands by the sea:
‘God scattered the people of Israel,
but he will bring them back together.
And he will watch over his flock like a shepherd.’
11 The Lord will bring Jacob back.
He will save his people from those who are stronger.
12 The people of Israel will come to the top of Zion,
and they will shout with joy.
Their faces will shine with happiness about the good things the Lord gives them.
He will give them grain, new wine, olive oil, young sheep and cattle.
They will be like a garden that has plenty of water.
And the people of Israel will not be troubled anymore.
13 Then the young women of Israel will be happy and dance.
And the men, young and old, will join in the dancing.
I will change their sadness into happiness.
I will comfort my people, making them happy instead of sad.
14 I will give the priests plenty of food.
And my people will be filled and satisfied with the good things I give them.”
This message is from the Lord.

15 This is what the Lord says:
“A sound is heard in Ramah—
bitter crying and great sadness.
Rachel[d] cries for her children,
and she refuses to be comforted,
because her children are gone.”

16 But the Lord says, “Stop crying.
Don’t fill your eyes with tears.
You will be rewarded for your work.”
This message is from the Lord.
“The people of Israel will come back from their enemy’s land.
17 Israel, there is hope for you.”
This message is from the Lord.
“Your children will come back to their own land.
18 I have heard Ephraim crying:
‘Lord, you punished me, and I learned my lesson.
I was like a calf that was never trained.
Please stop punishing me,
and I will come back to you.
You really are the Lord my God.
19 I wandered away from you.
But I finally realized how wrong I was.
So I changed my heart and life.
I am ashamed and embarrassed
about the foolish things I did when I was young.’”
20 The Lord says,
“You know that Ephraim is my dear son.
I love that child.
Yes, I often criticized Ephraim,
but I still think about him.
I love him very much,
and I really do want to comfort him.

21 “People of Israel, repair the road signs.
Put up signs that show the way home.
Watch the road.
Remember the road you are leaving on.
Israel, my bride, come home.
Come back to your towns.
22 Unfaithful daughter,
how long will you wander around?

“The Lord has created something new in the land:
A woman surrounding a man.[e]”

23 This is what the Lord All-Powerful, the God of Israel, says: “I will again do good things for the people of Judah. I will bring back those who were taken away as prisoners. At that time the people in the land of Judah and in its towns will once again use these words: ‘May the Lord bless you, good home and holy mountain[f]!’

24 “People in all the towns of Judah will live together in peace. Farmers and those who move around with their flocks will live peacefully together in Judah. 25 I will give rest and strength to those who are weak and tired.”

26 After hearing that, I, Jeremiah, woke up and looked around. My sleep was very pleasant.

27 “The days are coming,” says the Lord, “when I will help the family of Israel and Judah to grow. I will help their children and animals to grow too. It will be like planting and caring for a plant. 28 In the past I watched over Israel and Judah, but I watched for the time to pull them up. I tore them down. I destroyed them. I gave many troubles to them. But now I will watch over them to build them up and make them strong.” This message is from the Lord.

29 “People will not use this saying anymore:

‘The parents ate the sour grapes,
but the children got the sour taste.’[g]

30 No, people will die for their own sins. Those who eat sour grapes will get the sour taste.”

The New Agreement
31 This is what the Lord said, “The time is coming when I will make a new agreement with the family of Israel and with the family of Judah. 32 It will not be like the agreement I made with their ancestors. I made that agreement when I took them by the hand and brought them out of Egypt. I was their master, but they broke that agreement.” This message is from the Lord.

33 “In the future I will make this agreement with the people of Israel.” This message is from the Lord. “I will put my teachings in their minds, and I will write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. 34 People will not have to teach their neighbors and relatives to know the Lord, because all people, from the least important to the most important, will know me.” This message is from the Lord. “I will forgive them for the evil things they did. I will not remember their sins.”

The Lord Will Never Leave Israel
35 He makes the sun shine in the day,
and he makes the moon and the stars shine at night.
He stirs up the sea so that its waves crash on the shore.
The Lord All-Powerful is his name.

This is what the Lord says:
36 “The descendants of Israel will never stop being a nation.
That would happen only if I lost control of the sun, moon, stars, and sea.”

37 The Lord says, “I will never reject the descendants of Israel.
That would happen only if people could measure the sky above,
and learn all the secrets of the earth below.
Only then would I reject them for the bad things they have done.”
This message is from the Lord.

The New Jerusalem
38 This message is from the Lord, “The days are coming when the city of Jerusalem will be rebuilt for the Lord. The whole city will be rebuilt—from the Tower of Hananel to the Corner Gate. 39 The measuring line[h] will stretch from the Corner Gate straight to the hill of Gareb and then turn to the place named Goah. 40 The whole valley where dead bodies and ashes are thrown and all the terraces down to the bottom of Kidron Valley all the way to the corner of Horse Gate will be holy to the Lord. The city of Jerusalem will never again be torn down or destroyed.”

Footnotes
Jeremiah 31:6 watchmen This usually means a guard who stands on the city walls watching for people coming to the city. Here, it probably means the prophets.
Jeremiah 31:6 hill country of Ephraim This was the central part of the land that had been the northern kingdom of Israel.
Jeremiah 31:7 Lord, save your people Or “Lord has saved his people!” This is often a shout of victory.
Jeremiah 31:15 Rachel Jacob’s wife. Here, this means all the women who are crying for their husbands and children who have died in the war with Babylon.
Jeremiah 31:22 A woman surrounding a man The Hebrew text here is hard to understand. It might be part of some saying that was familiar to the people in Jeremiah’s time.
Jeremiah 31:23 good home and holy mountain This was a blessing for the Temple and for Mount Zion, the mountain the Temple was built on.
Jeremiah 31:29 The parents … sour taste This means the children were suffering for things their parents did.
Jeremiah 31:39 measuring line A rope or chain for measuring property lines.

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

Hi Brother, I know from the Hebrew that there is no long term break between the 69 and 70 week. The one day equals a year is well established. How so you stretch a year into 2,000 plus years? Where in scripture do you see such a stretch elsewhere? I do not see that anywhere friend.

Hi the prophecy is broken into 7 and 62 weeks until the messiah from the order to rebuild Jerusalem and its walls until the messiah who will be cut off and not for himself and then subsequently the holy city (Jerusalem) and the sanctuary (temple) will be destroyed by the people of a prince who shall come. Now this prince to come is not the same one who was cut off. His people are the ones who destroyed the temple and Jerusalem. Now the 70th week if this prince to come will confirm a covenant with the many for one week and in the middle of the week shall put an end to the daily sacrifices. This covenant brought in by this prince to come is a week long covenant and not the new covenant.

The gap is similar to Isaiah 61 where Jesus said it was fulfilled up to the part of declaring the acceptable year of the LORD. The rest of the passage has a long gap and is still something Jesus will accomplish and that is the day of vengeance of our God.

Dan 9 is subtle and if you take the time to read the whole thread but more importantly read the whole chapters quoted and see if it makes sense regarding the context of 70 7's determined for Daniels people and the holy city. I see a major change after the tribulation which will have the abomination of desolation occur with 42 month to go. The covenant with many will bring about the 3rd temple. 2Thes 2 shows the man of sin will be revealed in the Temple and destroyed at the 2nd coming. Rev 13 shows the beast has 42 month of power and authority over every tribe tongue kindred and nations and he too is destroyed by the 2nd coming.

 

[BobRyan]

Jer 31 notes that the city is built when the valley is full of dead bodies and then declares it is now holy and will not be uprooted or overthrown again.

1. The first coming already happened and Dan 9 points to the very time that it happened.
2. The decree to rebuild happened in 457 B.C. and Christ's ministry started in 27 A.D.

that was all in Daniel's future - and is now in our past. This is irrefutable.

3. Almost all Christian denominations freely admit the the 490 year timeline prophecy predicts the first coming of Christ.

4. The Jer 31 chapter does not say anything about a valley "full of dead bodies". Rather it speaks of a valley where here is dead bodies at the time of Jer 31.

38 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when the city will be rebuilt for the Lord from the Tower of Hananel to the Corner Gate. 39 The measuring line will go out farther straight ahead, to the hill Gareb; then it will turn to Goah. 40 And the entire valley of the dead bodies and of the ashes, and all the fields as far as the brook Kidron to the corner of the Horse Gate toward the east, shall be holy to the Lord; it will not be uprooted or overthrown ever again.”


from: Jeremiah 31 - Albert Barnes' Notes on the Whole Bible - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org
Verse 40
The whole valley of the dead bodies - Probably some part of the Valley of Ben-Hinnom. Comparing Zechariah 2:4, the conclusion seems evident that Jeremiah’s words are to be spiritually understood. His city is one that renders holy unto Yahweh what was before unclean. Compare John’s new Jerusalem Revelation 21:27.



from: Valley of Hinnom - Encyclopedia of The Bible - Bible Gateway

The valley had an evil reputation in later OT times because it was the site of Tophet, where parents made their children pass through the fire to Baal and Molech. Ahaz and Manasseh were guilty of this horrible abomination (2 Chron 28:3; 33:6). Isaiah refers to it, although not by name, as a place where the dead bodies of the unbelieving shall lie, and where their worm shall not die and the fire is not quenched (Isa 66:24). Jeremiah predicted that God would visit the place with such awful destruction because of its wickedness that it would become known as the “valley of Slaughter” (Jer 7:31-34). Josiah defiled the high place so as to make it unfit for its idolatrous rites (2 Kings 23:10). It became a type of sin, punishment, and misery because the bodies of dead animals and criminals were burned at its ever-burning fires.

The Heb. name Ge-ben-Hinnom (Ge-Hinnom) became corrupted into Gehenna, which in the NT is used to designate the place of eternal punishment.

The location of the valley has been much disputed. All three of the valleys around Jerusalem have been identified with it—the Kidron to the E, the Tyropoeon in the center, and the Wadi er-Rababi on the W. Early Jewish, Christian, and Mohammedan writers identified it with Kidron,

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In any case everything in Jeremiah cannot be shoved into Dan 9. Details matter here.

 

[BobRyan]

In Daniel 9 Daniels people and the holy city end up mostly destroyed and wiped out after Jesus 1st advent by 70 AD which is included as an add for for when the Messiah was cut off the city and sanctuary are destroyed. Now If Daniels 70th week is seeing to the 3rd temple and that week begins with the prince to come being the antichrist .

Which cannot be correct since all timelines are by definition - contiguous. and the 490 year timeline of Dan 9 has a 457 B.C. start point and a 490 year duration - so it (like all other timelines known to mankind) is fully determined once its start point and duration are known.

 

[Daniel Marsh]

The SDA viewpoint is making the most sense to me.