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Featured 7 year old girl dies of dehydration and exhaustion in Border Patrol custody

Discussion in 'Current News & Events' started by Sm412, Dec 15, 2018.

  1. Kaon

    Kaon Well-Known Member

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    I'd rather not. But, it should be straight forward where that comment leads.
     
  2. Radagast

    Radagast is a Trinitarian Christian

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    The Daily Mail seems to have done some research. See here. Not shown in the diagram is the arrival of a county ambulance to support the on-site EMTs at 6:40 am, the decision to call a helicopter ambulance immediately after that, the arrival of the helicopter ambulance at 7:30 am (departing with the girl at 7:45 am), and the helicopter ambulance reaching the hospital at 8:51 am.

    The girl was part of a group of 163 people that appear to have surrendered to border patrol after crossing the border near Antelope Wells, an extremely remote border crossing 45 miles (72 km) from the nearest town, which gets about 20 vehicles a day (the border crossing seems to have been closed for the day when the group crossed, with its one staffmember having gone home). The four border patrol staff that found the group called for a bus, which needed to make two trips (with unaccompanied children travelling first). The roughly 9 hours between the group being discovered and the girl arriving at Lordsburg would be four 2-hours bus trips (back and forth twice), plus loading and unloading -- no time seems to have been wasted there.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2018
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  3. Go Braves

    Go Braves On semi-hiatus here. Y'all take care.

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    The Daily Mail as in the Daily Mail tabloid? The one that has photographers stalk celebrities to take pictures of their kids picking their nose or whatever? I think some skepticism of their research is warranted. It's true the folks "surrendered" but they intended to turn themselves in, to apply for asylum. It makes it sound like they surrendered when caught, that doesn't line up with other reporting.
     
  4. Radagast

    Radagast is a Trinitarian Christian

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    Tabloids tend to be surprisingly good on infographics, as they were in this case. And multiple sources confirm their timeline.

    Which is no doubt why they crossed the border at night, at an extremely remote border crossing that closes at 4 pm.

    Now it's still possible that they intended to turn themselves in to the first border patrol person they saw, but they certainly did cross the border illegally and in a remote place.

    I don't see that border patrol did anything wrong here. They didn't waste time with the bus transfers. Once the girl showed signs of illness, keeping on driving the bus was a reasonable response, given that Lordsburg was the closest place where medical help could be found (they did radio ahead for EMTs to be ready and waiting). The girl stopped breathing when the bus arrived, and was resuscitated by the EMTs. The EMTs then called a county ambulance, and as soon as that arrived they called a helicopter ambulance (which took an hour to get there because El Paso was an hour's flying time away). I'm guessing that the county ambulance advised the air evac (which had an inevitable 2-hour flight delay for the return journey, but a good ICU at the end of the trip, and hence was a better bet than a trip by road to some closer hospital).

    If there is blame here, it lies on those people who arranged for a large group of kids to walk across Mexico in circumstances that took a heavy toll on health, and then dumped those kids, at night, in the remotest possible place in the New Mexico desert.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2018
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  5. Radagast

    Radagast is a Trinitarian Christian

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    I'm not all that impressed at the politically correct outrage on much of the media, actually:

    "She died in CBP custody!" No, she died in intensive care, in a hospital.

    "CBP did not air evac her out until an hour after she arrived in Lordsburg!" Yes, that's how long it took the helicopter to get there, the same as the hour it took to fly her from Lordsburg to El Paso.

    "The girl became sick at 5:00 am, but CBP just kept driving the bus." Yes, because they were in the middle of nowhere.

    "The girl became sick at 5:00 am, but she didn't get medical attention until 6:30." Yes, that's how long it took the bus to arrive at Lordsburg.
     
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  6. seeking.IAM

    seeking.IAM Episcopalian Supporter

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    Perhaps you missed the word "Idealistic?" Obviously our world is not ideal, hence my a subsequent post.
     
  7. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

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    You have posted that comment/question several times on this thread.

    Therefore i asked you to elaborate.

    And no, it's not straight forward.

    That's why i asked for clarity.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2018
  8. Kaon

    Kaon Well-Known Member

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    I can't explain every alleged subtelty, and do the homework. Look up the nation the girl was from, and what nation(s) destabilized it.
     
  9. NothingIsImpossible

    NothingIsImpossible Well-Known Member

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    Kind of crazy people want to allow these illegals here in the first place considering how many come from bad countries where some of the people crossing are dangerous. Having seen videos almost daily from countries like Mexico and all the way down south to Brazil, people are getting chopped up, skinned alive, shot...etc by drug dealers and gangs. And it has been shown many of those gangs are spreading here now due to illegal crossings or people who have come in these groups.

    So while its sad one girl died (well two now I believe), its still better then letting people in who then sell drugs to american kids and then our own kids die from drugs or get killed by gangs. Its almost as if we americans only think of "those poor people" but don't seem to care about there problems coming here and affecting our lives.

    People should watch Lockup/Lockdown and see how many of the southern states have people from south american gangs in them. Our prisons are full of them. This is what we get when we let more and more people in because we "feel bad for them".

    In the end one could say what is the point of fleeing your bad country only to come here where eventually our country will be like yours? Then where do you flee too? Many of these people were offered help in Mexico but turned it down. Sure Mexico is not perfect but its far better than places they came from.

    I also try not to forget these caravans were paid for by some democrats to play on peoples feelings while Trump is in office. They also know if they can get these people in it means more democrat votes next election. So technically we could blame some of the democrats who paid for these caravans to try and get here. I mean some of them have guards, food, water and all sorts of help. It magically came from no where.
     
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  10. Kaon

    Kaon Well-Known Member

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    If you are American, this entire post is ironic.
     
  11. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

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    i merely asked for clarification on something you posted several times. The posts were vague.
     
  12. Kaon

    Kaon Well-Known Member

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    Right, they were vague on purpose so that only those who 1) care enough to look into it, or 2) those who already know would be able to understand it.


    Freedom isn't free, especially after 2003; it costs at least $1.05. I don't want to get into the distraction of arguing whether to use neither/nor, the linguistic semantics of a word, or a philosophical debate about a strawman.

    If anyone cares, I have given plenty of avenues at which to begin. If not by all means ignore what I am saying. But I said exactly what I meant.
     
  13. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

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    No debate from here. Merely asking clarification on what you just stated yourself, is purposely vague.
     
  14. Kaon

    Kaon Well-Known Member

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    Did you find out what I was talking about?
     
  15. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

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    i was seeking your perspective on it.

    Your questions intrigued me.
     
  16. twin.spin

    twin.spin Trust the LORD and not on your own understanding

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    Last edited: Dec 17, 2018
  17. Kaon

    Kaon Well-Known Member

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    Oh...

    Follow the intrigue.
     
  18. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

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    LOL!
     
  19. HannahT

    HannahT Newbie Supporter

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    I know there are many reasons for the flow of people to the border.

    We had a customer come in last week that just returned from the region. He is a researcher, and one of his areas was to show how crops could get better yield. How certain types of corn would flourish in parts of their country.

    What was interesting about our conversation was the corn. Many families decide that they only wish to grow the corn that their ancestors grew, and only plant as their ancestors did. They don't wish to grow other species of corn - let's say that is more drought resistant. Plant in ways that would give them more feed for the animals, and food for families. I'm just using one example to keep it simple.

    Most are only interested in planting enough to get them through the year, and at that point they feel they are wealthy and happy. There are three main crops - corn, squash, and I forgot the third one. No one has anything, and they are used to that. They aren't unhappy or mad like many would be here in the USA. They tend to push away what we consider aspects of living properly.

    It's a culture block in a way, and trying to get them to change a little so they don't starve in the bad years? It's not an easy nut to crack. That's not unusual if you look around the world.

    They are finding the young want more from life, and drugs are a way to get some money to move forward. The draw to have more than their ancestors is what gets them into that ugly part of this.

    Many in these towns find that the cartels - in one example - are good for the area overall. They will build the new church, or fund what ever need is there. They look at them as assets, and tend to look the other way when it comes to other aspects of their organization. El Chapo was very popular, because of what he brought to the communities and people within them. It's not unusual for the church to act the same as the citizens. Their churches are a much bigger part of their communities than they are here.

    The researcher I spoke to reminded me of the many superstitions they embrace, and yet that also isn't all that unusual. He said once the drug trade came in, and grew leaps and bounds? Things changed drastically. You have those that get involved, and those that don't. Most get involved because they want more than their ancestors have - and want more than just the crops that they yield each year. They have to have loads of security, etc at times for their research - at the area they were invited to come and do the research. One country a couple of years ago that he was invited to? The local cartel didn't know him, and were scared he was undercover - and the company got him out there quickly.

    It was a very interesting conversation that we had, and you don't really get the feel for the cultural reasons for this happening in the news. There is a lot more to the story that isn't being told. Although no doubt many are leaving for the reasons you hear on the news? Safety due to people wanting to harm them. Most are young and looking for a better way of supporting themselves - and their family - outside farming and the drug trade.

    Most of what they are seeking our government helps to encourage. Industry for jobs. Tax base for the community center. Hospital for the sick. You really have no infrastructure there, and it's hard to get the educational experience our kids take for granted. I was reading recently how many of the countries down want to find ways to bring more industry to the region so the flow of people will start to dwindle. It's sad they were not interested in doing so before the crisis started. Yet no doubt just like our country - and many others - governments always seem to wait until a crisis point before they even start to the think about those things.
     
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  20. zelosravioli

    zelosravioli Believer Supporter

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    Kaon, i suppose others here know where your trying to go with your point; America is responsible for destabilizing Honduras etc. America is responsible for ruining the whole world - and thats why everyone wants to come here, so they can participate in destroying the rest of the world - good, but still you have to wait your turn to join our evil empire - thats the one rule we have left!

    I have debated this before, agreed we sometimes have screwed with and screwed things up at times for many countries, yet, no we aren't the reason why these countries cant get their crap together, generally they just can't get their crap together, thats it. And much more often than not these countries prosper and do much better because of the US.

    Its odd, and yet still so many want us to 'continue' to 'help' these countries but it never works out. And agreed we should stay out, other countries are responsible for their own plight just as we are... I totally disagree with the argument that its our problem,or our fault.

    it would be much better to debate that at the link below (or as it's own topic):
    Latin America
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2018
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