7 Ways to promote gender equality in your church

[Paidiske]

This was a thought-provoking read. Not sure I agree with everything they say, but thought I'd share it for discussion anyway:

7 Ways to Promote Gender Equality in Your Church | The Thistlette

 

[salt-n-light]

"Churches should teach mutual respect based on personhood rather than gender purity."

I disagree so badly. I think teaching (with biblical understanding) what is manhood and what is womanhood will help in the egalitarian cause. "Personhood" sound so ambiguous and it doesn't address the responsibilities of the body nor informs the other about the opposite sex's responsibilities. It makes me feel like we are just a random vessel that has nice qualities, instead of dealing with all of me.

I don't even believe that there's true gender equality, I believe that there is gender equity. Men want to feel valued, and women want to feel valued, more than necessarily being able to do the same things or being seen the same. In order for a man and woman to know their value, they have to first understand what the Word addresses about being a man and being a woman.

This "personhood" thing, leaves people to interpret on their own who they are, and seeing the type culture that we live in today, we would be crippling ourselves.

 

[Paidiske]

The problem, I think, is that not all women are the same and not all men are the same. Broad generalisations about "manhood" and "womanhood" always leave some of us not fitting into the picture presented.

(I'm not even sure what you mean by "responsibilities of the body;" it kind of sounds like teaching kids to brush their teeth every day...)

I was uncomfortable with the discussion about purity because well, frankly, "purity" isn't the paradigm through which I'd want to talk about sexual ethics. But I have no problem with mutual respect based on the fact that every person deserves respect simply by virtue of being a person (which is what I think they meant in the article).

 

[Zoii]

This was a thought-provoking read. Not sure I agree with everything they say, but thought I'd share it for discussion anyway:

7 Ways to Promote Gender Equality in Your Church | The Thistlette

I actually liked this. I was especially please with the approach of tapping into the qualities youth brings regardless of gender.

 

[Hearingheart]

I don't know. I don't tend to look at gender as much as the person. Each of us is a child of God and we all have gifts and abilities. Mutually valuing and respecting one another while submitting to God goes a long ways, but I'm kind of simple like that.
The only different I see between men and women is physical anatomy.

 

[mkgal1]

Wouldn't you all agree that so much of the trouble comes from trying to impose on people what they SHOULD be like instead of celebrating (and encouraging) who they actually ARE?

I was getting all nostalgic today and re-reading old threads here (from 2011). At that time there was a huge problem in the Married sub-forum over discussing sex in marriage. There was a group that routinely started threads about how "sex is like maintenance" and should be perceived that way (and even likened it to regularly changing your oil in your car in order to ensure the longevity of your car life). Then there was a group of us that came up against that mindset....saying that sex shouldn't be an obligation....it should be a mutually enjoyed experience. Somehow that got translated to: "sex shouldn't be a part of marriage". One post that I particularly appreciated is this one:

I suspect many of the issues around sexuality are just expressions of how hard many of us find it to be a genuinely loving spouse. Regular renewal in Christ is so necessary. At least people can actually talk about it with others through the Forum, but that may not happen face to face as readily, if at all.

Nevertheless, I see a lot of Christian teaching and attitudes around sexuality to be rather anemic and easily underestimated. Hence sex is one of the major topics on the Forum.

......shouldn't THAT be emphasized in Christian circles (just how we CAN be a genuinely loving spouse)? I hear so much from Christians about how "the world doesn't know how to do marriage well"....but, to be direct, I certainly haven't heard very much solid marital relationship teaching coming from the same people that say that. IOW....they don't seem to be "doing marriage" any better (or, at least, they aren't sharing how).

The ONE piece of information that I've held onto over the years is this (and it may be the ONLY solid teaching coming from a Christian site that I've come across in the last 30 years):

What It Means To Love Your Spouse: article here--->What It Means To Love Your Spouse

4. Love freely given. One of the most misunderstood aspects of marital love is the fact that true love is totally voluntary, unforced, and free of manipulation or control. God declared that this was the way He loved His people when He promised, “I will heal their backsliding, I will love them freely” (Hos. 14:4). The word freely in this verse means voluntarily. In other words, God is explaining that His love can’t be forced or manipulated by others and that He has chosen to love His people for His own reasons. Jesus said the same thing about the love that motivated Him to go to the cross. “Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself” (John 10:17-18). Jesus was declaring that no one was controlling His decisions. He was voluntarily giving up His life because He loved us.

Why is this aspect of your love so important to maintaining your relationship? Because many husbands and wives tell me that they have fallen out of love with their mate and at the same time declare that they have a controlling, manipulating, pressuring, nagging, jealous, or clingy spouse. All of these behaviors destroy the voluntary nature of love. Couples also relate to me that when they first dated and became engaged they did so out of a voluntary choice, but now all they sense is force or control strangling the desire to love.

If you are the spouse that is attempting to control, let me say to you that this manipulation is destroying the very love that you are attempting to keep or renew. Love must always be given out of a free choice by the one loving. The more you seek to force, manipulate, and control your mate, the less you will be loved.

If you have fallen into this trap, ask your mate’s forgiveness and return to loving freely without nagging and control. Seek your mate’s best interest and encourage activities that promote freedom and trust. If you can’t seem to give up these behaviors, you should seek personal counseling for yourself.

 

[teresa]

tonight I was asked to help with holy communion and it was incredible to stand there, behind the chalice...

and to see all the faces coming

young, old, short, tall, Hispanic, black, white, Asian, all coming to accept the body of Christ and then turn to me, dip the wafer and eat as I got to say, " the blood of Christ shed for you"

it gave me goosebumps

such an opportunity to serve, my gender making no difference, my only qualification being that I was a believer

No robes, no vestments, just my blue jeans and ministry shirt

 

[Chaplain David]

The OP reminded me of this. When I am in church, and participating fully, worldly cares drop away. I am more fully involved with other worshippers and reaching out to God, than at any other time. With this is a feeling of equality with them as we are reaching out together. Our common goal and purpose is being achieved while we are embracing and being embraced by our Lord. Everything else is secondary by comparison. If I let worldly cares back in that diminishes worship in every way. Does this make sense?

 

[Paidiske]

I'm not sure, David, if it does make sense to me.

Are you saying that concerns about equality in the church shouldn't matter because they are worldly and a distraction from God? Or are you saying that when we're properly focussed on God we naturally embrace equality?

 

[Chaplain David]

Yes, exactly and I quote, "when we're properly focussed on God we naturally embrace equality?"

Well said.

 

[Paidiske]

I think if that were true, we wouldn't have the problems we have in so many churches where women are treated unequally. I think this is something we have to work on consciously and intentionally, not just assume that it will come naturally.

 

[teresa]

well, during the service itself, I do indeed feel equal with everyone there, as we become one body right there in the service, and it is most beautiful.

but outside of the service there may be inequalities with the various duties of the church and maybe how single or divorced women are treated by members.

Perhaps we are one in spirit and all equal when in worshipful devotion to Him, but then get into problems outside of the actual mass due to the sins of the flesh, paidiski.

 

[Zoii]

@Paidiske I note that Bishops nationally have been brought to heel to reinforce that the Anglican church will not indulge any involvement with SSM. It sends a strong message to those who may be gay

How the Anglican Church hardened its stance against same-sex marriage

 

[Paidiske]

I don't think that article is a very accurate representation of what is happening. Muriel has been making a hobby of railing against Sydney at every opportunity for some time now, but in this case, I'd say she's sacrificed nuance for the sake of rhetoric. What the bishops have done is confirmed that if there is to be any change, it will be done through the framework of the Constitution and Canons of the church; there will be no rogue bishop authorising something the rest of the church has not agreed to. On the one hand, this commits us to good process, and on the other hand, it does permit conservatives such as the diocese of Sydney to stymie any possible change for the foreseeable future.

My archbishop sent out an ad clerum (an email to all the clergy under his oversight) earlier this month, in which - among other things - he stated: "Protocols to meet the new pastoral situation are under consideration, but in the meantime clergy are required to ask their episcopate bishop for guidance as to how to act in specific pastoral circumstances concerning same-sex weddings and celebrations."

There was also a document circulated, with a number of pastoral issues raised, and the suggestion is that groups of clergy might reflect together on their responses to those issues. I post them here:

a) to demonstrate that we are being encouraged to think about and discuss the broader issues, and
b) to note that I have no doubt that our clergy will be bitterly divided even on issues some of us might consider a no-brainer. This is not a simple matter for our church, and it will continue to not be a simple matter for a very, very long time.

CONVERSATION STARTERS Share your responses to the following pastoral scenarios:
• You are asked to take the funeral for a person in a same sex marriage
• You are asked to baptize a child of same sex parents.
• Someone you know invites you to attend their same sex wedding ceremony.
• A parent whose child is marrying their same sex partner asks you for advice.
• A church member tells you they have been invited to attend a same sex marriage and they feel anxious about it.
• You are asked to participate in a same sex wedding (for example, leading a prayer or a Bible reading).
• If you decided (see above) to lead a prayer, what would you feel able to pray?
• Responding to a same sex couple asking you to conduct their wedding ceremony, given that Anglican ministers are not authorized to marry same sex couples.
• A church member has attended a same sex wedding conducted by a non-Anglican minister of religion. They might be angry that a minister did conduct such a ceremony or they might be angry at you and the Anglican church that you cannot.
• What are the pastoral issues you have faced in the past six months or longer related to this change of legislation to which you feel you don’t have an answer?
• In thinking through your pastoral responses above, what biblical references, biblical principles and general resources have you found useful?

 

[Zoii]

I don't think that article is a very accurate representation of what is happening. Muriel has been making a hobby of railing against Sydney at every opportunity for some time now, but in this case, I'd say she's sacrificed nuance for the sake of rhetoric. What the bishops have done is confirmed that if there is to be any change, it will be done through the framework of the Constitution and Canons of the church; there will be no rogue bishop authorising something the rest of the church has not agreed to. On the one hand, this commits us to good process, and on the other hand, it does permit conservatives such as the diocese of Sydney to stymie any possible change for the foreseeable future.

My archbishop sent out an ad clerum (an email to all the clergy under his oversight) earlier this month, in which - among other things - he stated: "Protocols to meet the new pastoral situation are under consideration, but in the meantime clergy are required to ask their episcopate bishop for guidance as to how to act in specific pastoral circumstances concerning same-sex weddings and celebrations."

There was also a document circulated, with a number of pastoral issues raised, and the suggestion is that groups of clergy might reflect together on their responses to those issues. I post them here:

a) to demonstrate that we are being encouraged to think about and discuss the broader issues, and
b) to note that I have no doubt that our clergy will be bitterly divided even on issues some of us might consider a no-brainer. This is not a simple matter for our church, and it will continue to not be a simple matter for a very, very long time.

CONVERSATION STARTERS Share your responses to the following pastoral scenarios:
• You are asked to take the funeral for a person in a same sex marriage
• You are asked to baptize a child of same sex parents.
• Someone you know invites you to attend their same sex wedding ceremony.
• A parent whose child is marrying their same sex partner asks you for advice.
• A church member tells you they have been invited to attend a same sex marriage and they feel anxious about it.
• You are asked to participate in a same sex wedding (for example, leading a prayer or a Bible reading).
• If you decided (see above) to lead a prayer, what would you feel able to pray?
• Responding to a same sex couple asking you to conduct their wedding ceremony, given that Anglican ministers are not authorized to marry same sex couples.
• A church member has attended a same sex wedding conducted by a non-Anglican minister of religion. They might be angry that a minister did conduct such a ceremony or they might be angry at you and the Anglican church that you cannot.
• What are the pastoral issues you have faced in the past six months or longer related to this change of legislation to which you feel you don’t have an answer?
• In thinking through your pastoral responses above, what biblical references, biblical principles and general resources have you found useful?

And if a person in a SSM seeks communion?

 

[Paidiske]

And if a person in a SSM seeks communion?

Interesting that that wasn't on the list of topics for consideration.

I hadn't thought of it, but I guess that falls under the "specific pastoral circumstances" about which one is required to consult one's bishop.

 

[Zoii]

Interesting that that wasn't on the list of topics for consideration.

I hadn't thought of it, but I guess that falls under the "specific pastoral circumstances" about which one is required to consult one's bishop.

For that matter what if they are not in a SSM but just in either a permanent or casual SS relationship - or None but like the same sex. Is communion refused - or access to the church for that matter?

 

[Paidiske]

For that matter what if they are not in a SSM but just in either a permanent or casual SS relationship - or None but like the same sex. Is communion refused - or access to the church for that matter?

They'd not be refused access to the church for that. Some of my colleagues might refuse communion (or would certainly refuse to allow such a person into a leadership position or the like), but there is not a consistent practice on that matter.

 

[Zoii]

They'd not be refused access to the church for that. Some of my colleagues might refuse communion (or would certainly refuse to allow such a person into a leadership position or the like), but there is not a consistent practice on that matter.

would someone who had split from their wife/husband and now living with someone else be given communion? eg our previous deputy PM

 

[Paidiske]

would someone who had split from their wife/husband and now living with someone else be given communion? eg our previous deputy PM

At the discretion of the priest. I would think, for Anglicans, usually they would.