7 minutes of The President Just being... Human.

Hammster

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Abortion in the US has been on a downward trend... last I checked, it's at the lowest it's ever been since Roe v Wade was first adjudicated.
It’s not zero. And it doesn’t take into consideration the availability of abortifacients.
If the rate of abortions in the United States continues to decline on its own, do you think Biden would be in any way disappointed?

I have no idea how people who have no problem with the dismemberment of children in the womb think.
 
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TLK Valentine

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It’s not zero. And it doesn’t take into consideration the availability of abortifacients.

Be rational -- it wasn't zero before Roe v Wade... it's not even zero in countries where abortion is illegal.

I have no idea how people who have no problem with the dismemberment of children in the womb think.

Perhaps you should try asking? It's the rational thing to do.

I'm pro-choice, but if the rate of abortions is going down on its own, I assume it's because fewer people need them.

I see that as a good thing... you?
 
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Hammster

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Be rational -- it wasn't zero before Roe v Wade... it's not even zero in countries where abortion is illegal.
I am being rational. I understand that laws against murder don’t prevent murder. But I hope that it’s still the goal.

Perhaps you should try asking? It's the rational thing to do.

I'm pro-choice, but if the rate of abortions is going down on its own, I assume it's because fewer people need them.

I see that as a good thing... you?

Yes, less people being brutally murdered in despicable ways is good. The difference is the morality behind why we think it’s good. You would also think it’s good, based on your reasoning, if the numbers went up if women “needed” them.
 
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TLK Valentine

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I am being rational. I understand that laws against murder don’t prevent murder. But I hope that it’s still the goal.

And yet, as I pointed out, the abortion rate has been dropping for over a decade -- you don't seem to take much solace in that, preferring to fixate on an impossible "goal."

Why then does it appear that you want to hold Biden to this impossible goal? Doesn't it seem more likely that he, too, despite being pro-choice, would like to see fewer abortions?

Yes, less people being brutally murdered in despicable ways is good.

See? We have found some common ground...

... losing it in 3...2...1...

The difference is the morality behind why we think it’s good. You would also think it’s good, based on your reasoning, if the numbers went up if women “needed” them.

And there it is -- you're telling me what I believe instead of asking me.

Is it easier that way? Is the alternative too unpleasant for some reason?
 
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Hammster

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And yet, as I pointed out, the abortion rate has been dropping for over a decade -- you don't seem to take much solace in that, preferring to fixate on an impossible "goal."

Why then does it appear that you want to hold Biden to this impossible goal? Doesn't it seem more likely that he, too, despite being pro-choice, would like to see fewer abortions?
Based on what he’s said, I see no reason that he wants fewer abortions. If he did, he would be talking as someone who is against abortions as opposed to someone who wants to make them more accessible.

And there it is -- you're telling me what I believe instead of asking me.

Is it easier that way? Is the alternative too unpleasant for some reason?
My comment was based on what you said.
I'm pro-choice, but if the rate of abortions is going down on its own, I assume it's because fewer people need them.

I see that as a good thing.

Your reasoning is that fewer abortions are good only if they aren’t needed.
 
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TLK Valentine

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Based on what he’s said, I see no reason that he wants fewer abortions. If he did, he would be talking as someone who is against abortions as opposed to someone who wants to make them more accessible.

It might very well be that he's more anti-abuse of power than he is anti-abortion.

I wouldn't know, and neither do you.

My comment was based on what you said.

Let's test that theory...

Your reasoning is that fewer abortions are good only if they aren’t needed.

I don't recall using the word "only" -- that's your own addition, which you've chosen to attribute to me. An argument that cannot be made honestly isn't one worth making at all.

You wouldn't be getting into these messes if you asked more questions. Why not give it a try?
 
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Hammster

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It might very well be that he's more anti-abuse of power than he is anti-abortion.

I wouldn't know, and neither do you.



Let's test that theory...



I don't recall using the word "only" -- that's your own addition, which you've chosen to attribute to me. An argument that cannot be made honestly isn't one worth making at all.

You wouldn't be getting into these messes if you asked more questions. Why not give it a try?
Sorry that I added “only”.

“Your reasoning is that fewer abortions are good if they aren’t needed.”

What other reasons would you add?
 
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TLK Valentine

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Sorry that I added “only”.

“Your reasoning is that fewer abortions are good if they aren’t needed.”

What other reasons would you add?

Needed or wanted, for starters.

I'd like to see fewer -- preferably zero --abortions, because I'd like to see fewer people in circumstances where abortion seems to be the only option.

Sure, we might drive down the numbers by outlawing abortion outright, or by limiting access through the various back-door restrictions that state legislatures love trying, but that's a case of trying to do the right thing the wrong way.

I, for one, do not believe the ends justify the means... do you?

But then again... being pro choice seems a flimsy excuse to denigrate Biden's empathy, compassion, and very humanity.

After all, if you think so much less of him because he is pro-choice, what then must you think of me?
 
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Hammster

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Needed or wanted, for starters.

I'd like to see fewer -- preferably zero --abortions, because I'd like to see fewer people in circumstances where abortion seems to be the only option.

Sure, we might drive down the numbers by outlawing abortion outright, or by limiting access through the various back-door restrictions that state legislatures love trying, but that's a case of trying to do the right thing the wrong way.
It still looks like you don’t see abortion as wrong. To you (based on your replies) is right if a woman wants or needs one.

I, for one, do not believe the ends justify the means... do you?
That would depend on the means. I’m sure the murder rate is lower because it’s illegal. Traffic accidents are down because of speed limits. My children do well because of restrictions placed on them.



But then again... being pro choice seems a flimsy excuse to denigrate Biden's empathy, compassion, and very humanity.

After all, if you think so much less of him because he is pro-choice, what then must you think of me?

I think, as an agnostic, that you really shouldn’t have any reason to be against abortion.
 
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TLK Valentine

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It still looks like you don’t see abortion as wrong.

Suppose I don't see it as wrong; who's job is it to convince me it is?

To you (based on your replies) is right if a woman wants or needs one.

To me, it's none of my business. I certainly will never have one, and I will do everything in my power to make sure I never put anyone else in a situation where they might need one.

The central issue concerning the (im)morality of abortion revolves around the question of "is a fetus a human being?" I have my opinion on that topic... as do you. What are our opinions worth? Diddly-squat.

The doctors, lawyers, clergy, and politicians of the worldcan argue the medical, theological, and legal opinions one way or the other, and will continue to do so until half-past Judgement Day, as like as not. The fact that none of them have come to a consensual answer would seem to indicate that there might not be such an answer.

Therefore, the only opinion that matters at that point is that of the pregnant woman. She has to answer the question when she makes the decision about what to do with an unplanned/unwanted pregnancy... by whatever moral compass she has.

That kind of personal moral decision is best left between the woman and whatever god she believes in... and personally, I don't think the government has any business getting in between a person and their God.

Surprised to hear me say that?

That would depend on the means. I’m sure the murder rate is lower because it’s illegal. Traffic accidents are down because of speed limits. My children do well because of restrictions placed on them.

When the means work with the law, then there's no problem (assuming the law itself is just), when the means attempt to work around the law... big problem. The laws work when they agree with one another -- not when one law is written solely to exploit a loophole in a previous one.

The murder rate is low because murderers will get caught and punished according to the law. It's not the severity of punishment that deters crime, it's the certainty... which is why folks are up in arms when a police officer kills someone and (seemingly) escapes being held accountable -- but I digress

Speed limits? Good. Speed traps? not so much.

Your children do well because they know the restrictions you place on them, and know that you will (to the best of your ability) enforce them fairly and honestly. You don't leave a 10-dollar bill laying on the ground, wait for one of them to pick it up, and then scold them for "stealing," do you?

And trying to pass a state law as a means to get around the federal law? Well... yeah, big problem.

I think, as an agnostic, that you really shouldn’t have any reason to be against abortion.

Which is why you should learn to ask questions instead of make assumptions.

So go ahead: ask me if I'm "for" or "against" abortion. Don't assume you know because of my previous posts (including this one)... ask.
 
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hislegacy

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Be that as it may, we're not getting gassed.

There is no one within 100 yards of him to be gassed - they are all at a distance behind fencing, razor wire and 25,000 armed troops.
 
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hislegacy

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No, I dont empathize with anyone ,that is still a Trump supporter. Or republicans.Or anyone I dont know.

I dont believe Trump supporters empathize with anyone, that's not a Trump supporter. I think each party wants what they want. And that's it.

Sounds as if in some ways you and your impression of Trump supporters is similar. No empathy.
 
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KarateCowboy

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He said he could get away with this lewd behavior because he's a celebrity.
This is a media hoax. If you listen to the conversation in context it's actually a discussion of the transactional nature of relationships in the elite sphere. His tone is a mix of incredulous and condemning with a little insider boastiness.
 
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TLK Valentine

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There is no one within 100 yards of him to be gassed - they are all at a distance behind fencing, razor wire and 25,000 armed troops.

After the events of January 6, our government is quick to learn.

And it should be noted that there was nobody within 100 yards of Donald at first, either -- he had to go out of his way to go to the people to gas them.
 
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CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN

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It’s not zero. And it doesn’t take into consideration the availability of abortifacients.
Abortions will never be zero. Making abortions illegal doesn't matter, unless something wrong with the baby or mother .Since we can get abortion pills over the internet. Or go to another state . That allows abortion to a later trimester. Personally , I dont think what I do on this matter is your business. If you want to pretend to care about this matter. Try something else.
 
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KarateCowboy

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Abortions will never be zero. Making abortions illegal doesn't matter, unless something wrong with the baby or mother .Since we can get abortion pills over the internet. Or go to another state . That allows abortion to a later trimester. Personally , I dont think what I do on this matter is your business. If you want to pretend to care about this matter. Try something else.
I really don't understand why the hatred of the preborn. They're innocent. Why can't all humans be treated equally?
 
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98cwitr

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@Hammster , you asked where the pro-Biden threads were? Here's one.
It's boring. And charming. We've missed this... normalcy... for the last 4 years. No pompous bragging about how great he or his administration is. No snarky insults thrown at the reporters. When he talks about love you can tell he actually means it because he knows what it actually is. This is why I voted for him. So we could get back to this.

President Biden and First Lady Walk Dogs on North Lawn | C-SPAN.org

Did folks vote for the feisty side of Biden as well?

I can't post it because Biden tells someone they are full of something

Youtube: "Joe Biden spars with Michigan autoworker over guns"

Or when Biden calls an Iowa voter "a [...] liar"

Youtube: "Joe Biden tells Iowa voter" (CBS News channel)

Again, I can't post these because they contain profanity, from Biden's mouth, and not towards reporters/press, but to voters.
 
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TLK Valentine

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I really don't understand why the hatred of the preborn. They're innocent. Why can't all humans be treated equally?

Do you think abortions will ever be at zero?
 
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TLK Valentine

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Did folks vote for the feisty side of Biden as well?

I can't post it because Biden tells someone they are full of something

Youtube: "Joe Biden spars with Michigan autoworker over guns"

Or when Biden calls an Iowa voter "a [...] liar"

Youtube: "Joe Biden tells Iowa voter" (CBS News channel)

Again, I can't post these because they contain profanity, from Biden's mouth, and not towards reporters/press, but to voters.

Disgraceful. Behaving like Donald is beneath our president.
 
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