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Featured 7 crowns versus 10 crowns

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by claninja, Dec 12, 2018.

  1. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

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    As this forum is getting distracted from the OP, as most do on this site, I will post again what I find interesting about the 7 crowns vs 10 crowns



    revelation 17 might be the key to the difference in crowns between the dragon and beast

    Revelation 17:12 The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but will receive one hour of authority as kings, along with the beast.

    The horns do not have crowns yet when the dragon goes after the woman to kill her infant and thrown stars down with its tail. the crowns are on the 7 heads.
    Revelation 12:3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: a huge red dragon with seven heads, ten horns, and seven royal crowns on his heads.

    When the beast rises out of the sea to persecute the holy people for 42 months, the crowns are now instead on the horns
    Revelation 13:1 Then I saw a beast with ten horns and seven heads rising out of the sea. There were ten royal crowns on its horns and blasphemous names on its heads.

    This would indicate the horns, now have authority at this point for 1 hour with the beast. in revelation 12, the 10 kings had not yet received a kingdom, but by revelation 13 they received authority with the beast to wage war against the lamb and his people.
     
  2. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    While you are on the right track, I don't think you have noted that the ten kings give their kingdom to the beast, in Revelation 17:17. So, in order to give their kingdom to the beast, they actually will have a kingdom before the person becomes the beast.

    But, for their kingdom to be associated with the person after he becomes the beast - they don't have their crowns until Revelation 13.
    If you can follow that rationale.

    Their kingdom before the person becomes the beast in practicality is the EU as they emerge as the ten leaders of the EU government, with the little horn over them. The person is not actually the beast at that time.

    On my chart, the ten kings have their crowns down at the last stage at the bottom, when the person becomes the beast.

    At the beginning of my chart as the top, the ten kings have their kingdom, but the person is just emerging from their kingdom - a ways from him being the beast, down as the bottom of the chart.
    [​IMG]
     
  3. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

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    Correct, I haven't addressed that.

    So it seems that when John saw this vision, the 10 horns (10 kings) had not received a kingdom


    revelation 17:12 And the ten horns that you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they are to receive authority as kings for one hour, together with the beast.

    But when they would receive authority as kings, they would hand that power over the beast, uniting their authority together to be of one mind

    Revelation 17:12-13 but they are to receive authority as kings for one hour, together with the beast. These are of one mind, and they hand over their power and authority to the beast.

    and this uniting of power seems to serves a 2-fold purpose:

    1.) to war against Jesus and his followers

    Revelation 17:14 They will make war on the Lamb,

    2.) destroy the woman who rode on the 7 heads of the beast
    Revelation 17:16 And the ten horns that you saw, they and the beast will hate the prostitute. They will make her desolate and naked, and devour her flesh and burn her up with fire
     
  4. tranquil

    tranquil Newbie

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    Yes that is why the beast from the sea and earth come up from the abyss after the start of the 6th bowl war aka Armageddon in which the frogs that come out of the beast & false prophet are the lying signs and wonders to deceive the elect.

    At the 7th bowl is when they destroy the whore.

    The war that removes the beast is the revelation 19 war.
     
  5. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Diadems in the OT were sometimes associated with a High Priest, as was done with Joshua. The dragon could be symbolizing a false priesthood?

    I view Revelation as a covenantle change from the OC priesthood of the flesh and to that of the NC spiritual priesthood

    National Israel is cursed forever !


    OC Mosaic Priesthood cursed forever?

    Malachi 2
    1 “And now, O priests, this command is for you. 2 If you will not listen, if you will not take it to heart to give honor to my name, says the Lord of hosts, then I will send the curse upon you and I will curse your blessings. Indeed, I have already cursed them, because you do not lay it to heart.
    3 Behold, I will rebuke your offspring,a and spread dung on your faces, the dung of your offerings, and you shall be taken away with it
    ======================
    Hebrews 7:12
    For being changed/translated<3346> the Priesthood, out of necessity also, of Law a change/translation<3331> is becoming,


    Rev 1:6
    and did make us kings and priests
    to his God and Father, to him is the glory and the power to the ages of the ages! Amen.
    Rev 5:10
    and didst make us to our God kings and priests
    , and we shall reign upon the earth.'

    Revelation 20:6

    Happy the one having part in the first standing-up<386> upon these the second death not is having authority, but shall be being priest of the God and of the Christ and shall be reigning with Him the thousand years.
    ==================================
    6797 tsaniyph tsaw-neef' or tsanowph {tsaw-nofe'}; or (feminine) tsaniyphah {tsaw-nee-faw'}; from 6801; a head-dress (i.e. piece of cloth wrapped around):--diadem, hood, mitre.

    Isa 62:3
    And thou hast been a crown of beauty in the hand of Jehovah, And a diadem of royalty in the hand of thy God,
    Zec 3:5
    1He showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of Yahweh, and Satan standing at his right hand to be his adversary. 2Yahweh said to Satan, "Yahweh rebuke you, Satan! Yes, Yahweh who has chosen Jerusalem rebuke you! Isn't this a burning stick plucked out of the fire?" 3Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and was standing before the angel. 4He answered and spoke to those who stood before him, saying, "Take the filthy garments off of him." To him he said, "Behold, I have caused your iniquity to pass from you, and I will clothe you with rich clothing." 5I said, "Let them set a clean turban/diadem on his head." So they set a clean turban on his head, and clothed him; and the angel of Yahweh was standing by.

    6The angel of Yahweh protested to Joshua, saying, 7"Thus says Yahweh of Armies: 'If you will walk in my ways, and if you will follow my instructions, then you also shall judge my house, and shall also keep my courts, and I will give you a place of access among these who stand by.

    8Hear now, Joshua the high priest, you and your fellows who sit before you; for they are men who are a sign: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant, the Branch. 9For, behold, the stone that I have set before Joshua; on one stone are seven eyes: behold, I will engrave its engraving,' says Yahweh of Armies, 'and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day. 10In that day,' says Yahweh of Armies, 'you will invite every man his neighbor under the vine and under the fig tree.'"

    =============================================
    1238. diadema from a compound of 1223 and 1210;
    a "diadem" (as bound about the head):--crown. Compare 4735.

    Rev 12:3
    And there was seen another sign in the heaven, and, lo, a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his head seven diadems,
    Rev 13:1
    And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and I saw out of the sea a beast coming up, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon its horns ten diadems, and upon its heads a name of evil speaking,
    Rev 19:12
    and his eyes are as a flame of fire, and upon his head are many diadems -- having a name written that no one hath known, except himself,

    4735. stephanos stef'-an-os from an apparently primary stepho (to twine or wreathe); a chaplet (as a badge of royalty, a prize in the public games or a symbol of honor generally; but more conspicuous and elaborate than the simple fillet, 1238), literally or figuratively:--crown.

    Mat 27:29
    and having plaited him a crown out of thorns they put it on his head, and a reed in his right hand, and having kneeled before him, they were mocking him, saying, 'Hail, the king of the Jews.'

    Mar 15:17
    and clothe him with purple, and having plaited a crown of thorns, they put it on him,

    Jhn 19:2
    and the soldiers having plaited a crown of thorns, did place it on his head, and a purple garment they put around him,

    Jhn 19:5
    Jesus, therefore, came forth without, bearing the thorny crown and the purple garment; and he saith to them, 'Lo, the man!'

    ============================================
    1Co 9:25
    and every one who is striving, is in all things temperate; these indeed, then, that a corruptible crown they may receive, but we an incorruptible;

    Phl 4:1
    So then my brethren, beloved and longed for, my joy and crown, so stand ye in the Lord, beloved.

    1Th 2:19
    for what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? are not even ye before our Lord Jesus Christ in his presence?

    2Ti 4:8
    henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of the righteousness that the Lord -- the Righteous Judge -- shall give to me in that day, and not only to me, but also to all those loving his manifestation.

    Jas 1:12
    Happy the man who doth endure trial, because, becoming approved, he shall receive the crown of the life, which the Lord did promise to those loving Him.

    1Pe 5:4
    and at the manifestation of the chief Shepherd, ye shall receive the unfading crown of glory.

    ==============================================
    Rev 2:10
    'Be not afraid of the things that thou art about to suffer, behold! the Devil is about to cast of ye to prison, that ye may be tried, and ye shall have tribulation ten days; become thou faithful unto death! and I will give to thee the crown of the life.

    Rev 3:11
    Lo, I come quickly, be holding fast that which thou hast, that no one may take thy crown.

    Rev 4:4
    And around the throne are thrones twenty and four, and upon the thrones I saw the twenty and four elders sitting, clothed in white garments, and they had upon their heads crowns of gold;

    Rev 4:10
    fall down do the twenty and four elders before Him who is sitting upon the throne, and bow before Him who is living to the ages of the ages, and they cast their crowns before the throne, saying,

    Rev 6:2
    and I saw, and lo, a white horse, and he who is sitting upon it is having a bow, and there was given to him a crown, and he went forth overcoming, and that he may overcome.

    Rev 9:7
    And the likenesses of the locusts are like to horses made ready to battle, and upon their heads as crowns like gold, and their faces as faces of men,

    Rev 12:1
    And a great sign was seen in the heaven, a woman arrayed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars,

    Rev 14:14
    And I saw, and lo, a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sitting like to a son of man, having upon his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle;
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2019
  6. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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  7. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    I just saw this when I was translating the word for "slaughter".
    The same exact form of the greek word #4969> in revel 13 is also used for the Lambkin.
    Haven't really studied on the significance as it related to 1st century Jerusalem and Passover yet..

    Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized

    Matt 24:19
    "Woe yet to those in belly having and to those suckling in those the days!
    20 "Be ye praying yet that no may be becoming the flight of ye of winter neither a Sabbath.

    The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
    The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover.............

    4969. sphazo a primary verb;
    to butcher (especially an animal for food or in sacrifice) or (generally) to slaughter, or (specially), to maim (violently):--kill, slay, wound.

    Reve 13:
    3 And one out of the heads of it, as having been slaughtered<4969> (5772) into death, and the blow/stripe of the death of it was healed. And marvels whole the land of the after beast.

    8 and shall be worshiping him all the ones down-homing on of the land, of whom had not been written the name of him in the Scroll of the Life of the Lambkin, of the One having been slaughtered<4969> (5772) from foundation of world.

    Reve 5:
    6 And I saw and behold! in midst of the throne and of the four living-ones/zwwn <2226> and in midst of the Elders a Lamb-kin standing, as having been slaughtered<4969> (5772),
    9 And they are singing a song, new, saying: "Thou are worthy to be taking the scroll and to up open the seals of it, that Thou was slaughtered<4969> (5648), and Thou purchase, to the God in the blood of Thee, out of every tribe, and tongue and people and nation"
    12 Saying to great sound : Worthy is the Lamb-kin, the one having been slaughtered<4969> (5772) to be getting the power and riches and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and blessedness

    Reve 6:9
    And when it up opens the fifth seal, I see underneath of the altar the souls of the ones having been slaughtered<4969> (5772) thru the Word of theGod and thru the witness they had.

    Reve 18:24
    and in Her, blood of prophets and of saints was found, and of all the ones having been slaughtered<4969> (5772) upon the land.
    =============================

    James 5:
    5 ye luxuriate upon the land and ye squander, ye nourish the hearts of ye, in Day of Slaughter<4967>
    8 be ye patient! and stand-fast the hearts of ye, t
    That the Parousia <3952> of the Lord has-neared<1448>

    Isa 30:25
    There will be on every high mountain And on every high hill
    Rivers and streams of waters,
    In the day of the great slaughter, when the towers fall.


    Jeremiah 19:
    2 “And go out to the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, which is by the entry of the Potsherd Gate; and proclaim there the words that I will tell you,
    6 “therefore behold, the days are coming,” says the LORD, “that this place shall no more be called Tophet or the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, but the Valley of Slaughter.


    https://www.preteristarchive.com/JewishWars/timeline_military.html
    "..probably the greatest single slaughter in ancient history."
    ROMAN SIEGE AND SACK OF JERUSALEM


    ........................
     
  8. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    I think I would go look at Ezekiel 28:1-10 of why the person is killed. And take a look at 2Thessalonians 2:4.

    Upon the heads on the beast in Revelation 13:1, the name of blasphemy.
     
  9. DavidPT

    DavidPT Premil, the correct position of course

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    It all depends on how you look at it.

    Revelation 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

    Revelation 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
    13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

    Here's what I tend to think, right or wrong.


    and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns

    The ten horns are explained per----And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet

    The ten crowns are explained per---but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
     
  10. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    10 horns....10kings

    God Himself is putting it into the minds of the 10 horns/kings to desolate the Harlot, 1st century Jerusalem so as to restore the kingdom to Israel.......without the Levitical Temple of course.

    Acts 1:6 Restore Kingdom to Israel/10 KINGS One Mind Reve 17

    Acts 1:6
    The-ones indeed then coming together, asked Him saying
    Lord!, if in this time Thou are restoring the Kingdom to the Israel?'

    Revelation 17:
    12 ‘And the ten Horns which thou saw, are being ten Kings, who a kingdom not as yet receive,
    but authority as Kings one hour they are receiving<2983> with the Beast,

    13 These are having One mind, and the power and the authority of them to the Beast they are giving<1325>


    15 And He is saying to me "These the Waters which thou saw, where the Whore is sitting, are peoples and multitudes, and nations and tongues.
    16 And the ten Horns which thou saw and the Beast, These shall be hating the Whore,

    and They shall be making Her desolate<2049> and naked, and the fleshes of Her they shall be eating<5315> and shall be burning<2618> Her in fire.
    17 For the GOD gives into Their hearts to do the mind of Him, and to do One mind

    and to give Their kingdom to the Beast until shall be being finished<5055> the words of the GOD.
    18 and the Woman
    whom thou saw is being the great City,
    the one having a kingdom<932> over the kings of the land.’
    ======================================================

    What is interesting about the beast and 10 Kings being sent by God to desolate 1st century Jerusalem was what Titus exclaimed after decimating the City.

    Titus actually wanted to save some of the Temple.

    https://www.preteristarchive.com/JewishWars/timeline_military.html
    "..probably the greatest single slaughter in ancient history."
    ROMAN SIEGE AND SACK OF JERUSALEM


    The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

    Before their final demolition, however, Titus took a survey of the City/Harlot and its fortifications and while contemplating their impregnable strength, could not help ascribing his success to the peculiar interposition of the ALMIGHTY HIMSELF.
    "Had not God himself (exclaimed he) aided out operations,
    and driven the Jews from their fortresses, it would have been absolutely impossible to have taken them ; for what could men, and the force of engines, have done against such towers as these ?" After this he commanded that the city should be commanded razed to its foundations,

    Titus now gave orders that those Jews only who resisted should be slain ; but the soldiers, equally void of pity and remorse, slew even the sick and the aged. The robbers and seditious were all punished with death : the tallest and most beautiful youths, together with several of the Jewish nobles were reserved by Titus to grace his triumphal entry into Rome. After this selection, all above the age of seventeen were sent in chains into Egypt, to be employed there as slaves, or distributed throughout the empire to be sacrificed as gladiators in the amphitheatres ; whilst those who were under this age, were exposed to sale.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2019
  11. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Why would those ten horns not have their crowns in Revelation 17:3 if it were speaking of them ruling with the beast? As a first century event?
     
  12. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    Hi David,

    I don't disagree with your analysis of the ten kings ruling with the beast for one hour, as being in Revelation 13:1, having their crowns in that chapter.

    But there is an additional thing to consider, and that is in Revelation 12:3, the 7 heads have their crowns. Although the ten horns do not.

    What this indicates is that king 7 (the one yet to come of John's time) is in power, but has not yet become the beast.

    Revelation 12:6-17 contain the 7 years before Jesus returns.

    Thus, king 7 has come to power before the 7 years begin, coming forth among the ten kings (Daniel 7:24) - but at that point has not yet become the beast.

    It is not until right before the 42 months begin that king 7 becomes the beast in Revelation 13 and the ten horns have their crowns to rule with the beast at that time.
     
  13. TribulationSigns

    TribulationSigns Well-Known Member Supporter

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    As I often biblically explained before, The beasts are often symbolic of devouring kingdoms in Scripture. The heads are symbolic of authorities. The horns are symbolic of its power. The crowns on the horns are symbolic of its rule.

    And I still see many members coming up here with erroneous interpretations. For example, they are trying to link the beast to nations, empires, or even man based on world history. Or little horn is a man who has become a beast.

    For example, the beast with one of its heads wound unto death is illustrative of the Kingdom of Satan. Christ dealt this Kingdom a death blow for believers at the cross, breaking its authority in the earth to deceive the nations and hold them in bondage.

    Genesis 3:15
    • "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."
    The woman here is the kingdom of God on earth. The Old Testament Israel before the Cross, and then the New Testament Church after the Cross represent the SAME WOMAN, according to Revelation 12), the Serpent is Satan, ruler of the Kingdom of darkness, the woman's seed is Christ. But near the end of the world, in the time of great tribulation period, this 'death' wound Christ dealt Satan at the Cross has been healed (after the building of the church is finished), Satan's Kingdom again rises up and goes forth with great authority over the nations. Basically, it's the same New Covenant picture as delineated in Revelation chapter 20, but as a different symbolic picture.

    I do not take a Reformist, Historicist, Preterist, or Dispensational-type outlook on Revelation, focusing on physical Nations, Wars, Israel, 70AD theory, and the Roman Catholic Church, but on scripture alone as the arbiter and interpreter of Revelation's symbolism.

    Now to answer your questions:



    Revelation 12:3 is speaking about the days of Christ prior to the Cross when Woman (Israel) was about to delivery man-child with Satan nearby tried to kill him. Remember, the number seven in Scripture signifies totality, therefore, the seven heads of the dragon illustrate the totality of Satan's authority throughout time, and the seven Crowns upon the heads again emphasize his rule during that time. Satan was the prince of this world and crowns are what goes on the heads of princes or rulers of his kingdoms. This is to show that Satan was the unchallenged spiritual ruler of the kingdom on Earth until Christ was born and went to the Cross to dealt Satan a death blow. In other words, Satan's authority or rule was taken away so that Christ could establish His Kingdom on earth through the Church which is now a New Testament representative of God's Kingdom since the Cross. Remember that Christ warned that the kingdom representation was taken from Israel and gave to the Church when Christ said it?

    In Revelation 13, this "first" beast is when Christ went to the Cross, thus wounding its head (authority or rule). The second beast is imagery SPECIFICALLY dealing with the time of the end when the fatal wounded head is healed AFTER the building of the Church is finished, or when the Two Witnesses' testimony is finished, Revelation 11:11. This is when the church will be made apostate by false prophets that the beast sent.

    Sorry, the beast is NOT these in the end times (or 70AD as LittleLamb) as many surmises.
     
  14. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    If you actually did what you are claiming, you would go by what it says directly in the text of the ten horns being ten kings (leaders).
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2019
  15. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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    The heads are symbolic of leaders (Kings). The horns are also symbolic of leaders (Kings) - but a different set of leaders (Kings) from the 7 heads.

    The crowns are significant as to when the (1) fulfillment of the 7 kings has been made
    (2) fulfillment of the 10 kings time to rule with the person after he becomes the beast.
     
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