7 crowns versus 10 crowns

[Revealing Times]

The little horn emerges out of the kingdom of the fourth beast. The four beasts coming out of the sea represent four kingdoms.

The four kingdoms are:
1. Babylonian
2. Medes-Persians
3. Greek
4. Roman

In Daniel 7, the four beasts also represents four kings. Daniel 7:17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.

Those kings are:
1. Nebuchadnezzar
2. Cyrus
3. Alexander
5. Little horn person

There is no fifth.

You skipped Rome at the bottom for some reason. The Little Horn didn't start the Roman Empire. The Little Horn is called a Beast also, whether you recognize it or not is not going to change how God sees it or tells it unto us.

 

[Revealing Times]

Where in Revelation 17 are you reading about Kings who "arose" - then Kings who "fall" ?

It says 5 have fallen - meaning 5 have died. It does talk about them "arising".

What overall beast government are you talking about ? You write in ambiguities. Are you referring to the Roman Empire?

How can you fall if you haven't arisen for starters ? The reference to MOUNTAINS is about 7 Kings that ARISE ABOVE THE PLAINS !! It is not about Seven Mountains in one city and never could be understood as that by anyone that knows the Seven Headed Beast is about all Seven Kingdoms (including the coming Anti-Christ/Beast) that Beasts over Israel.

So the Seven Kingdoms are Seven Mountains (Kingdoms/Kings that ARISE above the plains or ARISE above all other Kingdoms). And they ARE ALSO 7 kings tells us it's speaking about Kings in the verse about Mountains, and what do Kings plus Mountains in the same passage imply ? That these 7 Kings have ARISEN.............Then it says 5 of these Kings that AROSE have already FALLEN, and ONE of the Kings is still in power (telling us the Kings are really Kingdoms, because the last Roman King was not ruling when John wrote the book of Revelation per se) then we are told ONE IS YET TO COME, and that of course is the coming Anti-Christ who when he Conquers Jerusalem/Israel and the MANY [Nations] wll become THE BEAST. The Roman Beast eventually fell and the Anti-Christ/Little Horn/Beast will fall also.

The ONLY BEAST to both ARISE as a Beast and FALL as a Beast will be the coming Anti-Christ. Does that go over people's heads It seems it does.

The overall POINT is the Mountain reference is showing that as per the 7 Kingdoms (7 Beasts) there were 7 Kings that Arose like unto Mountains and there will be 7 Kings that will also Fall because they are built on a bad foundation. But out of all of these Kingdoms that had Kings which arose and DIFFERENT KINGS that fall via each Kingdom, there is only ONE BEAST KINGDOM in which the same King will both arise as the Beast and fall as the Beast. This is why it states in Revelation, in many places, that he will serve just a short time, an HOUR so to speak. We know it's also called 42 Months in other places. So this whole passage in Rev. 17 us to let is know, this LAST BEAST HEAD is a MAN............Not a Kingdom per se, who will Beast over Israel, and then be cast into hell by God/Jesus.

 

[Douggg]

How can you fall if you haven't arisen for starters ?

Five have fallen is just another way of saying they had died, and were past kings to John's time.

"Arose" is something you are adding to the text.

 

[Douggg]

The overall POINT is the Mountain reference is showing that as per the 7 Kingdoms (7 Beasts) there were 7 Kings that Arose like unto Mountains and there will be 7 Kings that will also Fall because they are built on a bad foundation. But out of all of these Kingdoms that had Kings which arose and DIFFERENT KINGS that fall via each Kingdom, there is only ONE BEAST KINGDOM in which the same King wil both arise as the Beast and fall as the Beast. This is why it states in Revelation, in many places, that he will serve just a short time, an HOUR so to speak. We know it's also called 42 Months in other places. So this whole passage in Rev. 17 us to let us know, this LAST BEAST HEAD is a MAN............Not a Kingdom per se.

As near as I can understand your post, you are saying 7 mountains > 7 kings > 7 kingdoms > 7 beasts

Then you are claiming:

One master beast kingdom, which has 7 heads, 10 horns - made up of 7 kingdoms
1. Egyptian kingdom
2. Assyrian kingdom
3. Babylonian kingdom
4. Medes-Persians kingdom
5. Greek kingdom
6. Roman kingdom
7. (what is number 7, RT ? )

The problem with your view is that you have everything being a beast, the kings and the kingdoms - except for the ten kings.

Your view though doesn't correspond to four kingdoms of Daniel 7, RT.

The kingdom in Revelation 13 is the fourth kingdom. The beast in Revelation 13 will be king of the fourth kingdom.

The reason for your interpretation(s) featuring an overall beast kingdom spanning the history of powers negative to Israel is to justify your belief that Apollyon is the beast in the bottomless pit. Is that not correct?

 

[Douggg]

You skipped Rome at the bottom for some reason. The Little Horn didn't start the Roman Empire. The Little Horn is called a Beast also, whether you recognize it or not is not going to change how God sees it or tells it unto us.

It is not who starts each of the empires. But who is the most significant leader of each of the empires.

 

[Revealing Times]

maybe don't paraphrase definitions of words, especially when the paraphrase is not the definition of the word.

There is huge difference. Adding "ONE WHO", which is not in the definition, changes the actual meaning of the word from the definition of a mountain to a person (one who).

You do understand that this: (as lifting itself above the plain), is the literal definition of a mountain right?

I am adding what the Scripture actually means, I don't care in full what a dictionary says brother. If I tell you that the Star that falls to earth in Rev. 9 that has the key to the bottomless pit is an Angel, and then you show me a strong's dictionary that says a "STAR" is a mass of gasses, does that change what God/Jesus/John meant by a Star in Rev. 9:1 ? Of course not. So I am telling you what the reference unto MOUNTAIN means in Rev. 17, see my above post to Douggg.

I agree, that is the definition or ore (mountain)

We are agreed then, but you have to look at the context of the passage brother.

You're not cutting to the chase, your adding to scripture. The angel simply defines the heads as mountains upon whom the harlot sits and kings. anything other than that is personal interpretation.

So Revelation is Metaphoric in nature, and yet I am adding to scriptures all because you can't understand the riddles ? I don't even get that at all. Are you adding to the scriptures when you say its Rome or Jerusalem, because it is neither. I will just say you are confused, not adding to scriptures as per the Prophetic uttering's in Revelation. Douggg says its about Roman Emperors and is no such things, it's called understanding prophecy, so can, some can't, thus in their confusion I am not going to claim they are adding to scriptures.

I probably know more about the book of Revelation than 99.5 percent of the Church in general, it is my calling. Some people are not called unto this, some people can't get it even if they are called to Prophecy because they do as I did, they get stuck in Men's Traditions.

Again, we disagree on the meaning of ore in revelation 17:9. I believe it means mountain, you believe it means "one who arises above a plain". So in order to prove your point, just provide any scripture or greek writings that use "ore" as not meaning an actual mountain.

in the mean time, i'll post evidence of "ore" meaning mountain. The exact word for mountain in revelation 17:9 is "ore". It's used only 6 other times in the NT. Each time it means mountain

Matthew 18:12 What do you think? If a man has a hundred sheep, and one of them has gone astray, does he not leave the ninety-nine on the mountains and go in search of the one that went astray

Mark 13:14 But when you see the abomination of desolation standing where he ought not to be (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

Matthew 24:16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

Luke 21:21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, and let those who are inside the city depart, and let not those who are out in the country enter it,

1 Corinthians 13:2 if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing

Revelation 16:20 20And every island fled away, and no mountains were to be found

Now show me in any of those instances where they were speaking in conjunction with Kings. So all of those verses are irrelevant, and none are germane to what we are discussing, the word Mountains used in conjunction with Kings. We are told about 7 Beast Heads (7 Kingdoms) who Beasted over Israel, and told about 7 Mountains who ARISE (don't Mountains Arise above a plan?) and in the next verse we are told they (MOUNTAINS) are also 7 Kings, AND 5 have Fallen, ONE IS and one is YET TO COME !!

No matter how much you wish it was true, the 7 Mountains are not in one city, because the word is used to describe 7 Kings who AROSE from these adore mentioned 7 BEAST HEADS (Kingdoms). They are also SEVEN KINGS. It is just obvious to be honest. Now I am not going to say you are adding to scriptures just because you are wrong, but I will say if you continue in this manner, you are misleading brothers and sisters, unintentionally.

I know exactly how its used. Ore means montains, exactly as strong defines it and how it's used in scripture. But you are changing the definition of a word to suit your own theories. Because of this the burden of proof comes on you. If you don't want to provide any evidence of why you changed the definition of a word, that's on you, and the readers can clearly see that.

Should I just trust that snake oil can cure all my diseases or should I ask for proof?

I could care less about Strong whilst looking to Prophetic Uttering's brother. I have no burden of proof, the Holy Word is the Holy Word, either you understand it or you don't. To me it obvious what it means, IMHO, sInce you have all your eschatology wrapped around the 7 Mountains being in ONE CITY, you are blinded by these Men's Tradition, like I was blinded before I learned to stop believing Men's Traditions...........NEWS FLASH............I used to believe it was the exact same thing, ONE CITY, but it is not, and it never will be. The Seven Beasts can't be from ONE CITY !! It's quite evident to me you are not called to Prophecy in full, you are just interested in it. So no matter how many times I explain it, you are probably not going to get it.

the angel interprets the heads as mountains and as kings. you on the otherhand say they are not mountains. I'll stick with the angel's interpretation over yours.

Revelation 17:9 calls for a mind with wisdom: the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated

You added "one who" to the definition. So yes, you did change it.

No use rehashing this.....they are 7 Kings of 7 Kingdoms, not 7 Mountains, that is why 5 have fallen, ONE IS and one is NOT YET COME.

You know what assuming does

But in reality not everyone agrees with your interpretation, so providing scripture can help us see where you are getting your ideas from.

You are new to Prophecy it seems, read all the Major Prophets, good to read the Minor Prophets also in reality. I know people can't see the threads I am tying together in most cases.

revelation only mentions 1 great city

Just not true............Rev. 17:18 is Babylon, not Jerusalem. Rev. 16:19 is Babylon also, and it's a Great City, see Rev. 17:18.

God only provided 1 great city in revelation.

SEE ABOVE............

Babylon the great is the woman riding on the beast

Babylon the great is written on the forehead of the woman
Revelation 17:5 And on her forehead was written a name of mystery: “Babylon the great, mother of prostitutes and of earth’s abominations

Wow, you are so far off here it's frightening brother. The Harlot is THE WOMAN who rides the BEAST, and Babylon represents the Beast Governments. Those are 4 DESCRIPTIONS written on her head. That is giving us a clue where she was born....False Religion and Babylon go together. All of the CLUES are about the Harlot, why say she is Babylon. I can easily prove she is not Babylon. In Revelation 17:16 she is killed off by the Kings in league with the Beast who HATE HER and destroy her. In Revelation 18:9 we see that when Babylon is burned and destroyed the Kings CRY and LAMENT over her destruction. But as per the Harlot the Kings HATED HER !! Now you still want me to believe that the Harlot is Babylon ?

Rev. 17:16 And the ten horns(Kings) which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the harlot, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

Rev. 18:9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,

So the Kings hate the HARLOT............But cry and weep over Babylon !! And you can't get that one is the Harlot (FALSE RELIGION) and one is the Beast (Babylon represents Satan's Dark Kingdom). Thus Babylon = the WHOLE WORLD. The world is destroyed by God's Plagues !!

Babylon is THE BEAST.........That is why Babylon was the Head of Gold !!

Kings and dwellers of the earth have become drunk and committed sexual immorality with the woman
Revelation 17:2 with whom the kings of the earth have committed sexual immorality, and with the wine of whose sexual immorality the dwellers on earth have become drunk

Kings and naitons of the earth have become drunk and committed sexual immorality with the Babylon the great
Revelation 18:3,9 3For all nations have drunka the wine of the passion of her sexual immorality,
and the kings of the earth have committed immorality with her, Then the kings of the earth who committed sexual immorality and lived in luxury with her will weep

Yes indeed, both can and are true. People serving false gods commit sexual immorality in God's eyes. He is a jealous God.The wine representa a FALSE SPIRIT.

The same kings also commit adultery by not following in God's Governance. Israel had both !! They had the Priesthood laws, and they had the Laws of Governance via Civil Laws !! In both instances you can be seen as a Harlot before God. If you served the Gods of Babylon you were seen as a Harlot, if you wanted to remain in Babylon or Persia instead of returning to Israel, God saw them as Harlots also.

You can serve False gods and you can commit to False governance also, like accepting Homosexual Marriage etc. etc. If you accept these kind of laws etc. etc. you are a Harlot in the eyes of God as per the governance of God. If you participate in serving false gods you are a Religious Harlot. God had both Government and the Priesthood in Israel.

The woman is the great city
Revelation 17:18

Babylon is the great city
revelation 18:21

Yes, Babylon is the WHOLE WORLD under Satan and Satan is thus defeated and CAST DOWN to the Bottomless Pit.

Rev. 18:20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her. 21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all. (Satan will be defeated)

22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee; (COMMERCE DESTROYED BY PLAGUES)

23 And the light of a candle(Church is Raptured) shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom(Jesus) and of the bride(Church) shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived. 24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

The Prophecy says Babylon will be cast down. Her Commerce will be destroyed, and then we are told the Candle Light (Church see Revelation 1:20) will be taken out of her (Rapture) and thus no one will hear the bride anymore, nor the Bridegroom Jesus [until his return of course].

Rev. 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

Babylon is the WHOLE WORLD.............

The woman killed the saints and martyrs of Jesus
Revelation 17:6

Babylon the great killed the saints
Revelation 18:24

Again, you don't seem to understand, they were both two sides of the SAME COIN, the False Religion Harlot RODE THE BACK of the Government Beast.

If the Kings of the World served the ONE TRUE God they would not have killed the Saints and the Martyrs of Jesus.

Likewise, the Governments (Babylon) down through the ages (Kongs/Leaders) also killed the Saints AND Martyrs of Jesus. From Egypt, to Rome, to any and all Governments that have killed the Saints and the Christians down through the ages. Even in England they forced Christians to admit to sins by torture. They were in cahoots for the most par until Rev. 17:16, that is when the Kings in League with the Beast destroys All False Religions by killing off Islam and all Religions.

The woman is dressed in purple, scarlet, gold, precious stones, and pearls
revelation 17:4

Babylon the great city is dress in purple, scarlet, gold precious stones, and pearls
Revelation 18:16

Google Scarlet and Purple !! All Religious Orders and All Royals wore Purple and Scarlet, it was an expensive, thus exclusive color to get. The Jewish High Priests also wore Purple !! Most every King or Royal dressed in Purple.

So you get told here in no uncertain terms that both of these entities are dressed in Scarlet and Purple. One is a Government Beast (Royalty) and the other is a Religious Entity. The Harlot dressed in Purple rides the back of the Scarlet Colored Beast !! It tells us one is Religious Harlot and the other is a Royal Beast...........GET IT ?

It cannot be any clearer based on the descriptions of the woman and Babylon the great provided in scripture, that they are one in the same. The woman, who is Babylon the great, is the great city.

Wrong brother, the Harlot RIDES the back of the Government Beast = 2 ENTITIES !!

So how do we determine the identity of this great city? Using scripture to interpret scripture

The great city is where Jesus was crucified- Jerusalem
Revelation 11:8

Luke 13:33

There are many GREAT CITIES.....................Jerusalem is not the Harlot. PERIOD.

Babylon the great/the great prostitute was responsible for the blood of God's servants. Since Jesus told Jerusalem that ALL the righteous blood shed on the earth would come upon their generation, we know that that first century Jerusalem = Babylon the great/the great prostitute.
Revelation 18:24
revelation 19:2

Matthew 23:34-36

There is only 1 great city in revelation and it is Jerusalem.

There is Jerusalem the Holy City and Babylon the unholy city which represents the WHOLE WORLD under Satan's Rule.

False, that is not the definition of a mountain

Of course it is, but that would mean the 7 Hills is a False Flag.............you see I see right through the why's and how's brother.

 

[Revealing Times]

In fact, God did destroy Jerusalem upon his coming down from heaven.

The parable of the wicked tenants: When the vineyard owner RETURNS, he would destroy the wicked tenants who killed his son.
Matthew 21:40-41 Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard RETURNS, what will he do to those tenants?” “He will bring those wretches to a wretched end,” they declared, “and will rent out the vineyard to other tenants who will give him his share of the fruit at harvest time.”

This has nothing to do with Jesus' return. It's about the Jews losing the Mantle of God to the Gentile Church............That is why the Pharisees hated him so much.

Matt. 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. 44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.

45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them. {So it can't be about the End Times brother if it's about the Pharisees}

The parable of the wedding feast. The king would kill the original wedding guests who murdered his servants.
Matthew 22:7 The king was enraged. He sent his troops to destroy those murderers and burn their city.

The Marriage has yet to happen in this parable so it can't be about Jesus' Second Coming. It is about the Gentiles being called by God to the Wedding, if it is referring to the destruction of Jerusalem its speaking about 70 AD.

Immediately after the great tribulation of Jerusalem which resulted in the destruction of the temple, the son of man would come on the clouds.
Matthew 24:29-30 Immediately after the tribulation of those days: ‘The sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’b At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven

Nowhere is the Temple said to be destroyed in Revelation prior to Jesus' Second Coming. This above is Jesus returning with the Church in tow.

 

[Revealing Times]

According to the angel, Daniel's people and holy city had 70 weeks for 6 things to be accomplished.

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are decreed for your people and your holy city to 1.) stop their transgression, 2.) to put an end to sin, 3.) to make atonement for iniquity, 4.)to bring in everlasting righteousness,5.) to seal up vision and prophecy, 6. and to anoint the Most Holy Place.

If one is going to insert gaps, then the 6 items of Daniel 9:24 must be accomplished within the 70 prophetic weeks. I'll give you a story to help explain:

My Blog on this is pretty detailed. Gabriel EXPLAINED Jeremiah's Prophecy unto Daniel.

Daniel's 70 Weeks Decree against Israel

In Daniel 9:24, Daniel prophesied that these six things must come to pass before this judgment against Israel would be fulfilled. Some think Jesus fulfilled all of these, most seem to think, as I do, that these things have not come to pass, and when they do that will be the end of the age.

1. Finish the transgression (Israel as to turn to God before this can come to pass)
2. Make and end of sins (Daily Sins/willful sins, not flesh sins which will remain when Jesus reigns)
3. To make reconciliation for iniquity (Israel has to REPENT first)
4. Bring in everlasting righteousness (Jesus ushers this in of course)
5. To seal up vision and prophecy (All prophecy must be fulfilled)
6. Anoint the most Holy (Some think this refers to the Temple, I think it refers to Jesus as King)

1. The Hebrew word used for transgression denotes revolt or rebellion. The Jewish people chose to reject God, many chose to stay in Babylon once they were freed. It also denotes their rejection of Jesus Christ. Jesus prophesied in Matthew 23:39 that the Jewish people would not see him again until they accepted him. 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord. So in order for Jesus to return, Israel has to repent of their rejection of God and Jesus, and Israel will open their hearts to the Messiah, as Paul, Isaiah and Zechariah (Zechariah 12:10) prophesied, among others.

2. This is fairly straightforward, sins can only end when the millennial reign starts, so by the time this 70 week decree is over, Jesus will have returned to set up his kingdom, ushering in the millennial kingdom where there will be no sins. Since the tribulation week is the last week of the 70 weeks decree, that makes perfect sense, as soon as the tribulation period ends, or the "time of Jacob's trouble", then "sins will end".

3. Israel has to be reconciled unto God before the 70 weeks have been fulfilled. There is no doubt that Jesus died for all of our sins, thus the atonement for sins has been made, but there is a conditional requirement for all of us to receive that atonement, we must accept Jesus as our Savior. When Israel accepts the Messiah Jesus, as their Messiah, then the atonement for sins will have been completed, and Israel will have been reconciled unto God, thereby ushering in the millennial kingdom.

4. This 70 week decree has to bring in everlasting righteousness, and we know this can not happen until Jesus sets up his Kingdom. This world has always had sin, and always will until Jesus is Lord of Lords and King of Kings. By the time Daniels prophecy ends, it must usher in everlasting righteousness.

5. Seal up vision and prophecy, the word used here denotes to close up, meaning that before this 70th week can come to an end, all prophecy must be fulfilled or closed up. This will only happen when Israel accepts Jesus as their Messiah and he lands on Mt. Zion to rule over this wicked world with a rod of iron.

6. The very last goal that this 70 week prophecy has to usher in is the anointing of the most holy. The bible says most holy, many try to add holy place, but whether it is the temple being anointed, or Jesus Christ as Lord of Lord and Kings of Kings as I suspect, we know this must happen before the 70 weeks decree is fulfilled. And Jesus must return and rule on earth.

All six of these things have to happen before this prophecy is fulfilled. These are six spiritual goals that have to come to pass or this prophecy will not be finished or sealed up. We know these things have not come to pass yet, but we also know they are very near to happening, therefore watch, for Israel is now a nation again, and the world is against her, soon she will need her Messiah s help, then she will call upon him, and he will save her from this wicked world.

 

[Revealing Times]

If one is going to insert gaps, then the 6 items of Daniel 9:24 must be accomplished within the 70 prophetic weeks. I'll give you a story to help explain:

I tell you I promise to build you a house in 12 months. I then proceed to work on the house one month out of the year (let's say june) with 11 month gaps of "no work" in between the junes. It takes me 12 years (12 junes) to finish your house. Now, even though the house was finished in 12 years, technically my promise was true, as I built the house in 12 months (12 junes).

All that is fine and dandy, but the Prophecy is a 7 x 7 a 62 x 7 and a 1 x 7....Not a 70 x 7. So if your HOUSE EXAMPLE was three separate contacts.........then that would make more sense. Not a 12 months contract. God sees Israel as Dead Men's Bones !! God doesn't even recognize Israel as an entity for nigh 2000 years, this isn't that hard to understand in essence. God can see things as He so pleases. There is 7 years of punishment left to be dished out and Israel HAS TO REPENT before this 70th week is finished. You aren't saying Israel have already repented are you ? Because they clearly have not. We know they do during the END TIMES though don't we ? Zechariah 12:10 and Zechariah 13:1 says so. God saw Israel as DEAD for 2000 years. He brought them back to life in 1948 and thus he will take the scales off their eyes, ONLY WHEN the Gentile Church is Raptured to Heaven.

Rom. 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

IN PART means a few Jews along the way will see (Peter, Paul, Messianic Jews) but ten after the Gentile Church is Raptured, Israel will SEE AGAIN !! (70th Week Repentance).

This same "gap" principle can be applied to the 70 week prophecy. As long as the 6 points of Daniel 9:24 are fulfilled within the 70 prophetic weeks, even if there is a 2000 year gap in between in the weeks, the promise in Daniel 9:24 is true, as God worked within those 70 weeks to accomplish his promise.

However, even if 1 of the 6 points of Daniel 9:24 was fulfilled outside of the prophetic weeks, in a gap, Daniel 9:24 becomes a false statement. I'll use the same story to explain:


I tell you I promise to build you a house in 12 months. I then proceed to work on the house one month out of the year (let's say june) with 11 month gaps of no work in between the junes. It takes me 12 years (12 junes) to finish your house. Now, even though the house was finished in 12 years, technically my promise was true as I built the house in 12 months (12 junes). HOWEVER, if I worked on the house at any point in 11 month gap "of no work" in addition to the month of June, my promise becomes false, as it actually took longer than 12 months to build your house.

Again, the Prophecy is THREE PROPHECIES, not one !!

So in order for the gap theory to work, none of the 6 points of Daniel 9:24 can be fulfilled in a gap. They must all be fulfilled within the 70 weeks.

If there is a gap, that means Christ was crucified in it, AFTER the 69th but before the 70th
Daniel 9:26 AFTER the sixty-two weeks, the Messiah will be cut off and will have nothing

Jesus was CUT OFF at the exact end of 69 weeks........that ended the Prophecy of the 62 plus 7 Weeks x 7.

So that is correct, after............NOT IN THE MIDDLE, but after 62 plus 7 or 69 weeks Jesus is CUT OFF, not after 69 plus 1/2 a week.

However, I believe Christ death, resurrection, and ascension fulfilled the 6 points of Daniel 9:24. Here are 2 of the 6 and scripture to support:

1.)Jesus put away sin by his sacrifice
Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are decreed for your people and your holy city to 1.) stop their transgression, 2.) to put an end to sin, 3.) to make atonement for iniquity, 4.)to bring in everlasting righteousness,5.) to seal up vision and prophecy, 6. and to anoint the Most Holy Place.

Hebrews 9:26 But now He has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of Himself.

The prophecy is about Israel, NOT Jesus. Israel has to REPENT not Jesus. You mix the scriptures up here. T try and fit that which doesn't fit.

2.) Jesus made atonement for sin by his sacrifice.
Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are decreed for your people and your holy city to 1.) stop their transgression, 2.) to put an end to sin, 3.) to make atonement for iniquity, 4.)to bring in everlasting righteousness,5.) to seal up vision and prophecy, 6. and to anoint the Most Holy Place.

Hebrews 2:17 Therefore he had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make atonement for the sins of the people

Israel still has to repent........Jesus was Sacrificed before the foundations of the World. Abraham was RIGHTEOUS because he BELIEVED God.........or in God's coming redemption via the SEED of Jesus !!

So if you believe Jesus fulfilled any of the 6 points of Daniel 9:24 in a "gap" then you falsify Daniel 9:24.

**So there are only 2 ways to make the gap theory work, as to avoid a logical contradiction:

1.) Jesus did not fulfill any of the 6 points of Daniel 9:24 by his death, resurrection, and ascension

OR

2.) Daniel 9:24 is a separate 70 week prophecy from the 70 weeks of Daniel 9:25-27

Jesus can't repent for Israel, only they can repent for themselves. Were you forgiven before you washed yourselves in the Blood of Christ ? No, of course not.

The prophecy is about Israel, not Jesus.

 

[Revealing Times]

As near as I can understand your post, you are saying 7 mountains > 7 kings > 7 kingdoms > 7 beasts

Then you are claiming:

One master beast kingdom, which has 7 heads, 10 horns - made up of 7 kingdoms
1. Egyptian kingdom
2. Assyrian kingdom
3. Babylonian kingdom
4. Medes-Persians kingdom
5. Greek kingdom
6. Roman kingdom
7. (what is number 7, RT ? )

The Number of a MAN........666......So he is the BEAST. An Assyrian man born in Greece, who comes to power in the E.U.

The problem with your view is that you have everything being a beast, the kings and the kingdoms - except for the ten kings.

Your view though doesn't correspond to four kingdoms of Daniel 7, RT.

Of course it does, there is Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome AND the Little Horn Man of Sin. Jesus showed John all 7 of the Beasts, the first 2 not germane to Daniel in his day at all.

The kingdom in Revelation 13 is the fourth kingdom. The beast in Revelation 13 will be king of the fourth kingdom.

The reason for your interpretation(s) featuring an overall beast kingdom spanning the history of powers negative to Israel is to justify your belief that Apollyon is the beast in the bottomless pit. Is that not correct?

The Fourth Kingdom had a Mortal Wound....Rome is no more my friend as a power, don't kid yourself. My understanding of Apollyon came long after I understand the 7 Headed Beast.

It is not who starts each of the empires. But who is the most significant leader of each of the empires.

Empires ARISE and empires FALL.

 

[claninja]

I am adding what the Scripture actually means, I don't care in fill what a dictionary says brother.

that should be a red flag for anyone reading through this thread

If I tell you that the Star that falls to earth in Rev. 9 that has the key to the bottomless pit is an Angel, and then you show me a strong's dictionary that says a "STAR" is a mass of gasses, does that change what God/Jesus/John meant by a Star in Rev. 9:1 ? Of course not.

So John didn't see an actual star in that vision?

So I am telling you what the reference unto MOUNTAIN means in Rv. 17,

And I disagree with your interpretation, for which you still have not supported.

So Revelation is Metaphoric in nature, and yet I am adding to scriptures all because you can't understand the riddles ?

The angel interprets the vision to us, defining the 7 heads as 7 mountains the woman sat on and 7 kings. Trying to determine the identity of the 7 mountains (example 7 hills of rome or 7 hills of Jerusalem) and 7 kings (7 caesars or 7 herods) is not adding to scripture. However, the angel defines the heads as mountains. You then take it further and state the mountains are not mountains but kings/kingdoms rising. This would be adding as the angel explicitly states they are mountains. You even added on to the definition of a word the "one who" arises above a plain. But as you stated above, you don't care what dictionaries say.

Douggg says its about Roman Emperors and is no such things, it's called understanding prophecy, so can, some can't, thus in their confusion I am not going to claim they are adding to scriptures.

I don't agree with douggg's interpretation either, but what's the difference between you and him? He interprets the 7 heads and roman caesars. Scripture does not say they are roman caesars, so that would be personal interpretation. You interpret the 7 heads as kingdoms (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon,etc...). Scripture doesn't say they are kingdoms, so that would be personal interpretation.

Neither of you can actually provide scripture that specifically states the heads are what you believe them to be. If you could, there wouldn't be a debate and this forum would have ended a long time ago.

thus in their confusion I am not going to claim they are adding to scriptures.

Douggg doesn't add to scripture because Douggg believes the angels interpretations. He believes the 7 heads that are translated as mountains are mountains. He believes the 7 heads are also 7 kings. So douggg interprets the 7 mountains as Rome: city on 7 hills. he interprets the 7 kings as 7 kings of rome. He is only attempting to identify which 7 mountains and which 7 kings.

You, on the other hand, change the meaning of mountains to another metaphor for rising and falling kings to kingdoms. So you believe there are 2 metaphors. You are adding to the angels interpretation of the vision. The angel simply states they are mountains. You then add that they are not really mountains but another metaphor, even though scripture does state this.

I probably know more about the book of Revelation than 99.5 percent of the Church in general, it is my calling.

another red flag.

Now show me in any of those instances where they were speaking in conjunction with Kings. So all of those verses are irrelevant, and none are germane to what we are discussing, the word Mountains used in conjunction with Kings.

all take and no give. I asked you first to provide scripture or greek texts outside of revelation 17:9 that use the word "ore" to NOT mean a mountain.

We are specifically talking about the definition of a word. Mountain is defined as rising above a plain. Not "one who" rises above a plain.

All of these verse are relevant, as they show that "ore" means mountain. not "one who" rises above a plain.

You still have provided no evidence for your assertion.

No matter how much you wish it was true, the 7 Mountains are not in one city, because the word is used to describe 7 Kings who AROSE from these adore mentioned 7 BEAST HEADS (Kingdoms). They are also SEVEN KINGS. It is just obvious to be honest. Now I am not going to say you are adding to scriptures just because you are wrong, but I will say if you continue in this manner, you are misleading brothers and sisters, unintentionally.

you are entitled to your opinion, albeit wrong.

either you understand it or you don't

clearly you don't. If you did, you would be able to provide specific verses that support your assertions.

It's quite evident to me you are not called to Prophecy in full, you are just interested in it. So no matter how many times I explain it, you are probably not going to get it.

because you provide no evidence for your assertions. The readers can clearly see this.

No use rehashing this.....they are 7 Kings of 7 Kingdoms, not 7 Mountains, that is why 5 have fallen, ONE IS and one is NOT YET COME.

Again the angel states they are mountains. You say they are not. I'll stick with the angel.

 

[Douggg]

Of course it does, there is Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome AND the Little Horn Man of Sin. Jesus showed John all 7 of the Beasts, the first 2 not germane to Daniel in his day at all.

The little horn is a man. Differently Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome are kingdoms. There is not a kingdom called the little horn.

The Fourth Kingdom had a Mortal Wound....Rome is no more my friend as a power, don't kid yourself. My understanding of Apollyon came long after I understand the 7 Headed Beast.

The EU has a bigger economy than the US. And a bigger population. And a strong military. So I don't get where you get this no power any more.

Your interpretation of the beast with 7 heads as the text says - differs as being 7 beasts on one master beast.

Empires ARISE and empires FALL.

They do, but Revelation 17:10 only says fallen of the five kings. It is not talking about 5 kingdoms.

 

[Douggg]

Douggg doesn't add to scripture because Douggg believes the angels interpretations. He believes the 7 heads that are translated as mountains are mountains. He believes the 7 heads are also 7 kings. So douggg interprets the 7 mountains as Rome: city on 7 hills. he interprets the 7 kings as 7 kings of rome.

many thanks, claninja, for correctly stating what I am claiming. (Even though you disagree with my view of the 7 kings being of the Julio-Claudian line of Caesars)

 

[claninja]

Rev. 17:18 is Babylon,

So you agree the woman is Babylon, because the woman is in revelation 17:18
Revelation 17:18 and the woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.”

Rev. 16:19 is Babylon also, and it's a Great City, see Rev. 17:18.

I agree

not Jerusalem.

I disagree, especially because we have biblical evidence that Jerusalem is Babylon:

1.) Jesus explicitly states Jerusalem would be punished for the blood of the righteous:

Revelation 18:24 And there was found in her the blood of prophets and saints, and of all who had been slain on the earth.

Matthew 23:34-36 Because of this, I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify, and others you will flog in your synagogues and persecute in town after town. And so upon you will come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. Truly I tell you, all these things will come upon this generation.

2.) Jesus quotes Isaiah's judgment of Babylon in regards to Jerualem

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days:‘The sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.’b

Isaiah 13:10,13 For the stars of heaven and their constellations will not give their light. The sun will be darkened when it rises, and the moon will not give its light. Therefore I will make the heavens tremble,

3.) Peter wrote to the elect in dispersion from Babylon.

1 peter 1:15 She who is at Babylon, who is likewise chosen, sends you greetings, and so does Mark, my son.

Wow, you are so far off here it's frightening brother.

All i said in the quote you quoted was the woman was riding the beast and and babylon the great was written on her forehead. Not sure how that's so far off.

The Harlot is HE WOMAN who rides the BEAST,

i agree, that's what i said.

and Babylon represents the Beast Governments.

where does scripture say this?

I can easily prove she is not Babylon.

Nope, you sure haven't.

In Revelation 17:16 she is killed off by the Kings in league with the Beast who HATE HER and destroy her. In Revelation 18:9 we see that when Babylon is burned and destroyed the Kings CRY and LAMENT over her destruction. But as per the Harlot the Kings HATED HER !! Now you still want me to believe that the Harlot is Babylon ?

this is an assumption that the kings of the earth are the exact same as the 7 kings and 10 kings. No where do scriptures say these are the same. No where does scripture state it the beast laments over the death of the harlot.

Yes, Babylon is the WHOLE WORLD under Satan and Satan is thus defeated and CAST DOWN to the Bottomless Pit.

it doesn't say babylon is the world, it says its the great city

Revelation 18:21 So will Babylon the great city be thrown down with violence,

and will be found no more;

gain, you don't seem to understand, they were both two sides of the SAME COIN

I believe they are the same.

Google Scarlet and Purple !! All Religious Orders and All Royals wore Purple and Scarlet, it was an expensive, thus exclusive color to get. The Jewish High Priests also wore Purple !! Most every King or Royal dressed in Purple.

its not just the cloths, but the jewelry, gold, and pearls. we are comparing babylon and the woman, not all religious orders. They both have the same outfit. this is just one of the similarities. They are one in the same.

There are many GREAT CITIES

Not in revelation

Jerusalem is not the Harlot. PERIOD.

Jerusalem is and scripture points to it.

 

[Revealing Times]

Five have fallen is just another way of saying they had died, and were past kings to John's time.

"Arose" is something you are adding to the text.

That is why ORE is used in conjunction with Kingdoms (I guess the Beast Heads aren't Kingdoms now) and Kings....But of course you have a reason to believe the 7 mountains are one city because that is the only way it works out in your end game theory, I understand.

It is not who starts each of the empires. But who is the most significant leader of each of the empires.

Sure Douggg.....................If you say so brother.

The little horn is a man. Differently Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome are kingdoms. There is not a kingdom called the little horn.

Sure there is, it's called the 10 toes and feet made of Iron and clay. But then again you have a Roman Emperor arising from the pit.

The EU has a bigger economy than the US. And a bigger population. And a strong military. So I don't get where you get this no power any more.

Your interpretation of the beast with 7 heads as the text says - differs as being 7 beasts on one master beast.

Rome is a dead beast man !! The Anti-Christ will make the 7 Headed Beast live again.

Your interpretation of the beast with 7 heads as the text says - differs as being 7 beasts on one master beast.

Your eschatology on this differs from most of Christendom, what ca I say brother.

They do, but Revelation 17:10 only says fallen of the five kings. It is not talking about 5 kingdoms.

That is the reason its wrote that way, so it is meat to be hard to understand brother.

many thanks, claninja, for correctly stating what I am claiming. (Even though you disagree with my view of the 7 kings being of the Julio-Claudian line of Caesars)

I have come to the conclusion he just likes to argue and that he doesn't really know much about eschatology, he never debates points, he can't show the knowledge thereof so he comes up with quips and ad hominem fallacies. When you can't argue from knowledge thereof, just throw in an ad hominem fallacy. It's an old trick of debaters, lots of atheists even use them against me because they are clueless on the bible's actual writings of course, but I must say I have never seen a Christian uses these tactics, I guess he just doesn't understand eschatology enough to make valid points. I don't usually waste my time talking eschatology with people who aren't serious about it.

He's come up with so many insults that I was just about to place him on ignore, this after I tried to be kind to him in every way possible. Yet he keeps claiming people are adding to the bible, which is an insult to me a man who has spent over 30 years preaching the Gospel of our Lord. Maybe he doesn't mean it in a bad way, I don't know.

If I make a point, and someone just states a simple line without refuting it then I am just wasting my time, and I have many things to do other than to be waste my time.

Like his reply it doesn't say Babylon is the world, it says GREAT CITY.....Yet I showed him clearly via scriptures why it can only be ALL THE WORLD.

Alas, he thinks Revelation is given unto us verbatim as per what it actually means, I guess.

Hey brother, what happened to Quasar 92 ? Did he pass away ? He was like 92 when I first signed up here a couple years ago, he was on other sites with me but I haven't heard from our brother in a few months now, just wondering if you knew. God Bless.

 

[Douggg]

Hey brother, what happened to Quasar 92 ? Did he pass away ? He was like 92 when I first signed up here a couple years ago, he was on other sites with me but I haven't heard from our brother in a few months now, just wondering if you knew. God Bless.

I know nothing.

Sure there is, it's called the 10 toes and feet made of Iron and clay. But then again you have a Roman Emperor arising from the pit.

I don't have anyone "arising from the pit". The text says "ascends". Arising, to me, means resurrected. And I don't believe the beast currently in the bottomless pit will be resurrected.

But will come out of the pit as an unclean spirit.

I lean to the beast currently in the bottomless pit, as having been Nimrod when he was a live.

Revelation 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

 

[Douggg]

That is why ORE is used in conjunction with Kingdoms (I guess the Beast Heads aren't Kingdoms now) and Kings....But of course you have a reason to believe the 7 mountains are one city because that is the only way it works out in your end game theory, I understand.

It is not "Beast Heads". When you change the wording by creating your own terms, it changes what was intended. There is no term in the bible called "Beast Heads", because the bible is not calling the heads beasts, but mountains and kings.

It is the same wording in all three chapters....

Revelation 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

Revelation 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

Revelation 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

 

[claninja]

This has nothing to do with Jesus' return.

You must have missed the part where the vineyard owner COMES

Matthew 21:40 Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard COMES, what will he do to those tenants?”

It is about the Gentiles being called by God to the Wedding, if it is referring to the destruction of Jerusalem its speaking about 70 AD.

Gentiles were called before Jerusalem was destroyed in 70Ad. see the book of acts.

Nowhere is the Temple said to be destroyed in Revelation prior to Jesus' Second Coming.

I quoted the olivet discourse in matthew, which has Jesus coming immediately after the tribulation of Jerusalem which involves "not one stone standing upon another".

 

[claninja]

All that is fine and dandy, but the Prophecy is a 7 x 7 a 62 x 7 and a 1 x 7....Not a 70 x 7. So if your HOUSE EXAMPLE was three separate contacts.........then that would make more sense. Not a 12 months contract.

Your argument fails because the point of the story is the gaps. If any work is done in the gap it falsifies the promise. It doesn't matter if its 12 junes or 7x7, 62x7, 2000+ year gap, 7x1. If there are gaps, nothing can be fulfilled within the gaps, otherwise it becomes false.

I could change the story to I promise to build a house in 3 months: 1 month to build the foundation, 1 month to build the walls, and 1 month to build the roof. I then build the foundation for 1 month in june, then I build the walls in July. I then wait 5 years and build roof in the month to April. My promise is technically true (it took 3 months to build the house: june, july, april), even though it was over a 5 year period. However, as soon as I work on the house in the 5 year gap between July and April, my promise becomes false.

if any part of the promise if fulfilled in a gap, the promise is false. You seem to acknowledge this by stating none of the 6 points have yet been fulfilled for Israel because they haven't repented.

Rom. 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

IN PART means a few Jews along the way will see (Peter, Paul, Messianic Jews) but ten after the Gentile Church is Raptured, Israel will SEE AGAIN !! (70th Week Repentance).

This argument completely ignores the context of Romans 9-11. How can only a remnant be saved and yet all of Israel be saved?

Romans 9:27 Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the Israelites is like the sand of the sea, only the remnant will be saved.

Romans 11:26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written

Because not all Israel is Israel.
Romans 9:6 It is not as though God’s word has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel

By God saving only the remnant, which is true Israel, God saves all of Israel.

Jesus was CUT OFF at the exact end of 69 weeks........

this is false.

1.) it would be 7+62 weeks until the Anointed ruler CAME
Daniel 9:25 Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem UNTIL the Anointed One, f the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’

The Hebrew word for AFTER is present. so it is AFTER the 7+62 weeks. not at the end of the 69 weeks.
Daniel 9:26 after the sixty-two weeks, the Messiah will be cut off

The prophecy is about Israel, NOT Jesus.

I disagree. Israel doesn't atone for their own sin, Jesus atones for it. Israel doesn't put away sin, Jesus puts away sin.

Israel still has to repent........

Acts records people from Israel repenting.

Acts 2:36-41
Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.”

When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?”

Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

Jesus can't repent for Israel, only they can repent for themselves. Were you forgiven before you washed yourselves in the Blood of Christ ? No, of course not.

The prophecy is about Israel, not Jesus.

I would disagree that because some have not repented that promises of God, specifically Daniel 9:24, remain unfulfilled. the unfaithfulness of some do not nullify the promises of God.
Romans 3:3-4 What if some were unfaithful? Will their unfaithfulness nullify God’s faithfulness? Not at all! Let God be true, and every human being a liar

 

[claninja]

I have come to the conclusion he just likes to argue and that he doesn't really know much about eschatology, he never debates points, he can't show the knowledge thereof so he comes up with quips and ad hominem fallacies.

No false statements RT. An Ad hominem is argument where I attack your character and not your arguments. I have never attacked your character and have only addressed your arguments.

Please show anywhere in this thread where I attacked your character.

He's come up with so many insults that I was just about to place him on ignore,

Please, show one time on this forum where I have insulted you personally.

Yet he keeps claiming people are adding to the bible, which is an insult to me a man who has spent over 30 years preaching the Gospel of our Lord. Maybe he doesn't mean it in a bad way, I don't know.

This is not an insult, you may be offended because you believe you are 100% right on everything revelation, but it's not an insult.

I have not claimed "people" are adding to the bible. I claimed one person: you. And the evidence is clear in this forum that you have.

You have added further interpretation to something that has already been interpreted.

The angel interprets the heads (the vision) into the mountains (the literal). You then add on to angel's interpretation as saying the mountains are not mountains but kingdoms. you even add to the definition of a mountain by adding the words "ONE WHO" to arises above the plain. When asked for evidence on this definition, you have provided none besides your own interpretation.

If we can make anything into insults then I could say I am insulted that you believe you know more about revelation than 99.5% of the church.

If I make a point, and someone just states a simple line without refuting it then I am just wasting my time, and I have many things to do other than to be waste my time.

I have refuted you multiple times with scriptural support. You on the other hand refuse to provide scripture for many of your claims. I have asked multiple times throughout this thread to provide scripture for your claims and you have not yet done so.

, I guess he just doesn't understand eschatology enough to make valid points.

All of my points have been much more valid than yours.

You claim the heads of the beast are the kingdoms of Egypt, Assyria, Babylon,etc and yet you provide no scripture that states this. You claim the woman is all false relgion, and yet you provide no scripture that states this. You state Babylon the great is the beast's government and yet you provide no scripture that states this.

I have provided scriptural support that Babylon the great and the woman are one in the same. I have provide scriptural support that the woman is Jerusalem. I have not claimed the identities of the 7 kings and 10 kings because scripture does not explicitly give the names of the kings.

It's an old trick of debaters, lots of atheists even use them against me because they are clueless on the bible's actual writings of course, but I must say I have never seen a Christian uses these tactics, I guess he just doesn't understand eschatology enough to make valid points.

Another trick I often see is when posters on this website post false accusations.

Like his reply it doesn't say Babylon is the world, it says GREAT CITY.....Yet I showed him clearly via scriptures why it can only be ALL THE WORLD.

You have not show via scriptures that it is the world. In post 66 you stated your opinion that Babylon is the whole world, but you have not provided scriptures that state Babylon Is the whole world.

I on the other hand have posted scripture that clearly states Babylon is the great city.

Revelation 18:21 With such violence the great city of Babylon will be cast down,