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65% of Catholics don't know about the recent Latin Mass restrictions

Discussion in 'One Bread, One Body - Catholic' started by rturner76, Oct 24, 2021.

  1. rturner76

    rturner76 Domine non-sum dignus Supporter

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    I was one of the 65% though I'm not clear from what exactly is no longer allowed. I guess there has been a revival in Latin Mass in the USA especially. They say most either don't know or don't mind the restrictions

    It looks like, of the small number that knows AND cares about the restrictions 25% more people disapproved.

    I guess it was a move toward unity and they don't want any subgroups breaking off with their own particular version

    "Francis’ decision requires priests currently using the traditional Latin rite to “request authorization from their bishop to continue doing so,” according to Catholic News Service. The new rules also require bishops to “determine if the current groups of faithful attached to the old Mass accept Vatican II,” and forbid bishops from authorizing “the formation of any new pro-Latin Mass groups in their dioceses,” The Associated Press reported."

    https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-ta...s-new-restrictions-on-traditional-latin-mass/

    Does anyone here attend Latin Mass? Will this affect your local Mass in any way? My Parish only does a Latin Mass on certain occasions so I don't think we would be affected.

    I wonder why it wasn't bigger news? Because some see it as unifying and some see it as an erosion of traditional Roman Catholicism. I thought people would be talking about it but most don't even know.
     
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  2. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It has been talked about a great deal in some Catholic circles, not so much in others.

    It seems an illiberal restriction of the mass in a Church that prides itself on diversity of rites and spiritual approaches. I would think we should be open to a Latin Usage for mass as well as an Anglican Usage and even a Lutheran Usage. Pope John Paul II opened up an option for using the 1962 Missal and pope Benedict made even greater allowances for using the 1962 Missal. And there were a lot of people, not just old farts but younger people, who connected to that liturgy in a way that they didn't so much with the later liturgy.

    Pope Benedict opened up an option for Anglicans/Episcopalians to use considerable parts of their liturgy in Catholic worship. I was hoping there might be a Lutheran parallel, considering that there are a substantial few Lutherans who lean very Catholic in lots of things. But alas not yet.

    Pope Francis has basically dealt a murderous blow to those who wish to attend mass in Latin in the old right as it was practiced for more or less 1500 years with only minor modifications. One part is that seminarians have to ask permission of the pope himself to begin to use the old liturgy. Another is that priests have to ask permission of their bishop to continue to use the old liturgy. Another is that parish churches may not be used for these liturgies. Pope Francis has not banned such liturgies outright but he has insured that the 1962 liturgy will die out eventually and be limited until it dies. Of course a lot of this depends on the local bishops. SFollowing the lead of pope Francis, some have already shut down the local practice of the 1962 liturgy. Others have allowed everything to continue as it was before pope Francis. Your parish may continue it's Latin mass, or may never have another one, depending on your bishop.

    I'm not a big vetus ordo guy. I can get into a Latin mass from time to time, but it's not a regular thing for me. So I'm not highly inconvenienced by this. But I don't like it because it enforces uniformity where it does not need to do so. It is hostile to a demographic of the Catholic faithful who show up to church on Sundays more than average Catholics, believe the creeds when so many Catholics find that optional, donate more than their share, are well read believers in the Catholic faith, have more children per capita, and don't abort much either. These people are now considered either bad evil nasty Catholics or retrograde Catholic troglodytes. It's said they 'don't believe in Vatican II' and thus have to be shut down. For the most part they actually do accept Vatican II. But they are painted as being divisive. I think pope Francis wants to drive them to the SSPX or to Orthodoxy or to some sedevacantist groups, which may happen in frustration for being shut out of the Catholic Church. I don't see what good it does to slam the door on them.

    Most know nothing at all about this. Of the rest who have heard of it, most are not really impacted. It's a small but growing group that got kicked in the teeth. I really don't know why they had to be kicked in the teeth. It seems like a foolish thing to have done to them.
     
  3. rturner76

    rturner76 Domine non-sum dignus Supporter

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    How do you think the argument of "unity" holds up to the argument of "diversity?" I think it was an unnecessary move but I do see why a unified Church would be preferable.
     
  4. chevyontheriver

    chevyontheriver Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Christian unity is essential. Absolutely. So unity wins over diversity.

    But diversity exists. We Catholics worship in Coptic and Syriac and Slovenian and more than a hundred other languages. Before Vatican II we worshiped in less languages but still we had liturgies for Maronites and Melkites and a whole slew of other rites, all valid. We were even a bit proud of that diversity, being united in One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. There was diversity even while we were united. There were Ambrosian Rites and Sarum Rites and Dominican Rites. We had multiple spiritualities including Carmelite and Jesuit and on and on. We had diversity. And it was good. We could be diverse and united.

    So far there has been no clampdown on the Marinites and Melkites and the twenty other rites that have their own liturgies. Just a clampdown on the traditional Latin Mass. But this clampdown has got people in the other rites wondering if they are next. It does seem like pope Francis has an animus against Latin and not those other liturgical languages, but still they wonder if they will be next. The Ordinariate guys might really be wondering because their liturgy is considered a usage within the Roman Rite. If the TLM is vaporized because there is only going to be one expression of the Roman Rite allowed, where do they sit?

    Unity wins, but destroying diversity for less than serious reasons doesn't even enhance unity. It just makes for a monoculture. We had a multiculture and it was a healthy thing. I'm just not seeing the threats to unity from some Catholics in union with the pope who wanted to worship using the 1962 missal. Supposedly those evil people needed to be stopped. I just don't see why they were evil. What did they do? Did they promote gay priests and women priests? Did they disbelieve the Real Presence? Did they lobby for abortion? Did they sing too much Kumbaya?

    There are sedevacantists out there. There are folks no longer in communion with the pope like the Pius V people. People who are no longer actually Catholic. But those aren't the people this was set to stop because they are already outside of the control of the Catholic Church. This move to stop the 1962 Latin mass are actual Catholics. And they got stomped on. For unity? I am doubting it. Somebody wants to force them out of the Catholic Church. To what gain? Will Catholicism suddenly become united if many of them leave and the rest are beaten sown into silence? Does it solve any actual problem the Church is facing?
     
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