6 million Muslims convert to Christianity

[andy b]

its not what or how you say it, its what you mean that counts

 

[smaneck]

Yeah, I take a little offence at that, because the only book I've ever read on it that tabled the idea of "Allah" being the name of the moon God was a secular history book written in the 1800s.

I have never heard of an academically reviewed text which supported the idea and this is my field.

 

[WoodrowX2]

I have never heard of an academically reviewed text which supported the idea and this is my field.

Hard to tell exactly when some non-Muslims began the Moon-god nonsense. but it certainly was popularized by Robert Morey in 1992

Prior to then, I can not find any reference to it.

Robert Morey first wrote about his “Allah is the moon-god” theory in The Islamic Invasion (1992) and then later reproduced it with minor changes in a twenty page booklet entitled The Moon-God Allah in the Archeology of the Middle East (1994). The latter has fallen out of print, and Morey himself refers readers to The Islamic Invasion “for more information” about his moon-god theory. It is this book then that I will refute.

SOURCE

 

[FredVB]

I don't see any need for saying Allah is from an original form as a moon god, and I don't have an objection to the term, "Allah". I see that there are Christians that use it. But the Muslim Allah is not the same as God revealed in the Bible. Yahweh God is holy, not permitting any place for sin, which is all of what he names as sin, that he won't deal with in having just consequences, and he is compassionate and loving, with mercy to those who will respond to him, with cost to himself for redemption to them without violation to his justice, and he is without limit. This in itself is radically different than Allah as depicted from Islam or the Quran.

 

[smaneck]

Yahweh God is holy, not permitting any place for sin, which is all of what he names as sin, that he won't deal with in having just consequences, and he is compassionate and loving, with mercy to those who will respond to him, with cost to himself for redemption to them without violation to his justice, and he is without limit. This in itself is radically different than Allah as depicted from Islam or the Quran.

The 'cost to himself for redemption' is not the Yahweh of the Tanakh, it is the God of the NT who is never referred to there as Yahweh. You might well argue that the God of the NT is radically different than the Allah of the Qur'an but I fail to see any difference between the Allah of the Qur'an and the Yahweh of the Tanakh.

 

[WoodrowX2]

The 'cost to himself for redemption' is not the Yahweh of the Tanakh, it is the God of the NT who is never referred to there as Yahweh. You might well argue that the God of the NT is radically different than the Allah of the Qur'an but I fail to see any difference between the Allah of the Qur'an and the Yahweh of the Tanakh.

Every Jew I know agrees that Allah(swt) is the Yahweh of the Tanakh and the same root word as Elohim.

 

[LoAmmi]

Every Jew I know agrees that Allah(swt) is the Yahweh of the Tanakh and the same root word as Elohim.

(I'm sure they don't like you using that name though since we aren't sure if it's the correct way to pronounce it or not....)

 

[Supreme]

I don't see any need for saying Allah is from an original form as a moon god, and I don't have an objection to the term, "Allah". I see that there are Christians that use it. But the Muslim Allah is not the same as God revealed in the Bible. Yahweh God is holy, not permitting any place for sin, which is all of what he names as sin, that he won't deal with in having just consequences, and he is compassionate and loving, with mercy to those who will respond to him, with cost to himself for redemption to them without violation to his justice, and he is without limit. This in itself is radically different than Allah as depicted from Islam or the Quran.

Actually, Muslims and Christians worship the same One God. And this was not a controversial idea before 9/11. It has been widely accepted for millenia that this is the case- indeed, the first Christians to witness Islam thought it was a Christian heresy similar to many other unorthodox sects that sprang up in Christianity's first 500 years.

It's only recently that powerful, evangelical churches in America have been exporting this idea that Islam follows a completely different deity. It seems that some intolerant bigots in Malaysia have also bought into this myth, but it just ain't so.

 

[WoodrowX2]

(I'm sure they don't like you using that name though since we aren't sure if it's the correct way to pronounce it or not....)

True.

I apologize for writing it out and should have used YHWH

 

[BruceDLimber]

Please visit my Picture Album on my Profile page, for a short tour of ND.

If you saw the recent (double) segment on 60 Minutes, you got a look at the missile installations there, including an aerial view of one of the silos.


Bruce

 

[WoodrowX2]

If you saw the recent (double) segment on 60 Minutes, you got a look at the missile installations there, including an aerial view of one of the silos.


Bruce

I missed it. I'm not a TV watcher, just have the TV so the cats can watch animal planet.

I just can't seem to get interested in anything on TV anymore.

 

[ContraMundum]

Actually, Muslims and Christians worship the same One God. And this was not a controversial idea before 9/11. It has been widely accepted for millenia that this is the case- indeed, the first Christians to witness Islam thought it was a Christian heresy similar to many other unorthodox sects that sprang up in Christianity's first 500 years.

There's plenty in historic Christian theology that states that Allah is a false God. Read some medieval conciliar statements and certainly the Protestant Confessions and magisterial reformers- magnified by their successors of course. But some of these go too far I think.

 

[BruceDLimber]

There's plenty in historic Christian theology that states that Allah is a false God.

Which merely shows that Christian theologians can be mistaken, too.

And you're quite correct that some of their statements are clearly excessive.

Besides which, you are referring to some of the most prejudiced (as in "pre-judging") statements prompted by the most hateful of motives....

Plenty of Christians (as well as others) have stipulated the Oneness of God, Allah included. And indeed, Arab Christians have always referred to God as Allah!

Peace,

Bruce

 

[ContraMundum]

Which merely shows that Christian theologians can be mistaken, too.

And you're quite correct that some of their statements are clearly excessive.

Besides which, you are referring to some of the most prejudiced (as in "pre-judging") statements prompted by the most hateful of motives....

Plenty of Christians (as well as others) have stipulated the Oneness of God, Allah included. And indeed, Arab Christians have always referred to God as Allah!

Peace,

Bruce

But there's two sides to this Bruce. What if the Christian theologians are right? It's not like they just make a bare assertion about "Allah" out of thin air. They base their beliefs on the claims of the Quran's revision of previous written revelation. The logic path is simple: when the stories in the Quran contradict the Biblical account- they both can't be right. Therefore either Allah is not the God of the Bible (eg. telling a different story) or He is a fiction, concoction or fabrication of man, or He is the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob and Judaism and Christianity are wrong. Hence, it would be natural for such theologians to assume one of the former scenarios.

I don't think the real basis of that teaching is prejudiced or "hateful", but just an attempt to solve a dilemma. I do however think that resolution often leads to prejudice and hate.

 

[CherubRam]

Actually, Muslims and Christians worship the same One God. And this was not a controversial idea before 9/11. It has been widely accepted for millenia that this is the case- indeed, the first Christians to witness Islam thought it was a Christian heresy similar to many other unorthodox sects that sprang up in Christianity's first 500 years.

It's only recently that powerful, evangelical churches in America have been exporting this idea that Islam follows a completely different deity. It seems that some intolerant bigots in Malaysia have also bought into this myth, but it just ain't so.

Here is the problem. The name of our God the Father is (Yahuah / Yahwah.) The name of their God is Allah, AKA Alilah. And in Hebrew and the old Aramaic, Allah means oak; and it is also the name of a man.

 

[CherubRam]

Here is some history on the matter: Allah Islam Mohammad | Christian Forum

 

[smaneck]

Here is the problem. The name of our God the Father is (Yahuah / Yahwah.) The name of their God is Allah, AKA Alilah. And in Hebrew and the old Aramaic, Allah means oak; and it is also the name of a man.

The Hebrew cognate for Allah is Eloh. Oak in Hebrew is Elon. There is no 'nun' in Allah.

Try again.

 

[smaneck]

Here is some history on the matter: Allah Islam Mohammad | Christian Forum

That's called fantasy, not history.

 

[CherubRam]

The Hebrew cognate for Allah is Eloh. Oak in Hebrew is Elon. There is no 'nun' in Allah.

Try again.

You are wrong.

See NIV Exhaustive Concordance, page 1372. Ref # 464. The Hebrew vowel for e was introduced after the 2nd century AD. Before then the vowel was "a." Hebrew did not have an e vowel before the second century AD.

 

[smaneck]

You are wrong.

See NIV Exhaustive Concordance, page 1372. Ref # 464. The Hebrew vowel for e was introduced after the 2nd century AD. Before then the vowel was "a." Hebrew did not have an e vowel before the second century AD.

LOL. That would make the Hebrew Aloh an even more obviously the cognate to Allah. But my point had nothing to do with vowel sounds which are not that important in a Semitic language in any case. What is important is the trilateral root which will not change from one Semitic language to another. In Hebrew word for 'oak' has a 'nun' as part of its trilateral root. So your assertion that Allah meant oak in Hebrew is simply a falsehood. Whether it is a falsehood on your own part or someone fed you this garbage, I have no idea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_(name)