50 Reasons for the Pretribulation Rapture

[BABerean2]

And where, may I ask, did you acquire your qualifications to teach the Bible?

Do you think the Pharisees asked Jesus a similar question ?

I do not think Jesus or the New Testament writers had a degree from Dallas, or Moody, or Tyndale, or Liberty, or...

For some strange reason you think that all of the seminaries who disagree with you do not exist.


Providence Theological Seminary in Tennessee is a fairly new school which teaches the Bible from the New Covenant perspective.

Dr. Gary Long is the head of the seminary.

See the link below.

Providence Theological Seminary

.

 

[jgr]

You are actually side-stepping my ponts and questions any way. It's not like we're having an actual conversation as a result.

Now you know what the rest of us experience.

 

[Quasar92]

Do you think the Pharisees asked Jesus a similar question ?

I do not think Jesus or the New Testament writers had a degree from Dallas, or Moody, or Tyndale, or Liberty, or...

For some strange reason you think that all of the seminaries who disagree with you do not exist.


Providence Theological Seminary in Tennessee is a fairly new school which teaches the Bible from the New Covenant perspective.

Dr. Gary Long is the head of the seminary.

See the link below.

Providence Theological Seminary

.

Do you think the Pharisees asked Jesus a similar question ?

I do not think Jesus or the New Testament writers had a degree from Dallas, or Moody, or Tyndale, or Liberty, or...

For some strange reason you think that all of the seminaries who disagree with you do not exist.


Providence Theological Seminary in Tennessee is a fairly new school which teaches the Bible from the New Covenant perspective.

Dr. Gary Long is the head of the seminary.

See the link below.

Providence Theological Seminary

.

It is a shame you are unable to field a viable argument for your views from the Scriptures, to refute the Biblical teachings of the pre-trib rapture of the Church, by Jesus, Matthew, Luke, John and Paul, you deny the teachings of, making liars of them all, as documented in the following:

The Biblical teaching of the pre-trib rapture of the Church in Theology/Prophecy & Revelation Forum Forum

Your continued vendetta against Dallas Theological Seminary and me, personally, is a crutch, because you have no other argument with Scriptural support that will ever break the Scriptures that refute you.


Quasar92

 

[BABerean2]

Your continued vendetta against Dallas Theological Seminary and me, personally, is a crutch, because you have no other argument with Scriptural support that will ever break the Scriptures that refute you.

Let us start with the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ in Hebrews 8:6-13, and is specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8. So much for keeping Israel and the Church separated. Only your personal declarations that "The Church is not Israel, and Israel is not the Church...", can accomplish that goal.

Then we will go to the resurrection event at the end of 1 Thessalonians chapter 4, whose timing is revealed in chapter 5 on the Day of the Lord, when He comes as a thief. Based on 2 Peter 3:10 and Revelation 16:15-16, this would be a Second Coming event. The words "we" and "sleep" in 1 Thessalonians 5:10 prove that chapter 5 is linked to chapter 4.

Then we find in Luke 21:24-30, that the "times of the Gentiles" comes to an end at the Second Coming of Christ, not 7 years before.

I have nothing personal against you or DTS.
However, your man-made doctrine is another matter.
No quarter should be given to any doctrine that takes the focus off of Christ and places it on a nation or a race of people.

The New Covenant is about Grace, instead of race, as revealed by Matthew 1:1, Matthew 3:9, Galatians 3:16, and 1 Timothy 1:4.


.

 

[Quasar92]

Let us start with the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ in Hebrews 8:6-13, and is specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8. So much for keeping Israel and the Church separated. Only your personal declarations that "The Church is not Israel, and Israel is not the Church...", can accomplish that goal.

Then we will go to the resurrection event at the end of 1 Thessalonians chapter 4, whose timing is revealed in chapter 5 on the Day of the Lord, when He comes as a thief. Based on 2 Peter 3:10 and Revelation 16:15-16, this would be a Second Coming event. The words "we" and "sleep" in 1 Thessalonians 5:10 prove that chapter 5 is linked to chapter 4.

Then we find in Luke 21:24-30, that the "times of the Gentiles" comes to an end at the Second Coming of Christ, not 7 years before.

I have nothing personal against you or DTS.
However, your man-made doctrine is another matter.
No quarter should be given to any doctrine that takes the focus off of Christ and places it on a nation or a race of people.

The New Covenant is about Grace, instead of race, as revealed by Matthew 1:1, Matthew 3:9, Galatians 3:16, and 1 Timothy 1:4.


.

FYI, the New Covenant was was initiated by Jesus some 35 years BEFORE the book of Hebrews was written, recorded in the following:

Lk.22:19 "And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me.”

20 In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.[a] 21 But the hand of him who is going to betray me is with mine on the table. 22 The Son of Man will go as it has been decreed. But woe to that man who betrays him!” 23 They began to question among themselves which of them it might be who would do this."

The New Covenant was activated through the shed blood and death of Jesus on a cross. Offered as God's free gift of salvation to all who believe/receive Jesus as their Lord and Savior, both Jews and Gentiles alike, according to 1 Cor.12:12-13, at Pentecost. The founding of the Church.

Rejected by Israel/Jews as a whole, who were exiled and sent into their 1,878 year diaspora for rejecting Jesus as their Messiah, who founded the New Coveannt. According to the prophetic Scriptures, Israel will not recognize Jesus as their Messiah, until His Second Coming, as recorded in Zech.12:10 and 14:4-5.

THE CHURCH IS NOT ISRAEL NOR IS ISRAEL THE CHURCH

The church and Israel did not begin at the same time and are, therefore, not the same entity. The nation of Israel essentially began when God called Abraham and promised to make a great nation from him.The rest of the Old Testament records the growth, development and existence of that nation. The Church did not begin in the Old Testament and, therefore, it and Israel are distinct. The unique character of the Church supports the distinction. The church, unlike Israel, is declared to be a “mystery” (Eph. 3:1-12; Col. 1:26-27). In the New Testament a “mystery” is a truth that was not revealed previously in the Old Testament.

If the Church began at Pentecost, then it did not begin or exist in the Old Testament. It is worth noting that in Matthew 16:18 the Lord Jesus used the future tense: “I will build My Church.” He did not say, “I am building My church” or “I have been building My church.” The church was something still future in Christ’s ministry, which means that it was not in existence during His ministry or in the Old Testament. The apostles would not have understood what He meant by “His church” being built in the future, but the details about the church would be given to them later. In dealing with the matter of the discipline of an individual (18:17), Jesus told them to tell it to the church or assembly. The apostles would have understood that He was speaking of a Jewish assembly. The statement of 18:17 must be understood in the light of the previous statement (16:18) of the future building of “My church.

”Certain things had to be true before the church could come into existence. First, according to the Apostle Paul, the Church is the “body of Christ” (e.g. Col. 1:18, 24 and Eph. 2:16; 3:6; 5:23, 30). It is clear that the church (the body) could not exist and function without its Head, the Lord Jesus. Jesus did not assume that role until after He had shed His blood on the cross, had been resurrected, and then ascended back into heaven. It was at that time, after those events, that the Father “put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him and head over all things to the church, which is His body” (1:22).

THERE IS NOTHING IN YOUR ABOVE POST ADDRESSING THE PRE-TRIB RAPTURE OF THE CHURCH YOU ARE IN DENIAL OF, DOCUMENTED IN THE FOUR POST LINK IN THE FOLLOWING:

The Biblical teaching of the pre-trib rapture of the Church in Theology/Prophecy & Revelation Forum Forum


Quasar92

 

[BABerean2]

Israel will not recognize Jesus as their Messiah, until His Second Coming, as recorded in Zech.12:10 and 14:4-5.

What you are promoting above is rejected by the words of Christ found below.

The Parable of the Ten Virgins

Mat 25:1　 "Then the kingdom of heaven shall be likened to ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom.　
Mat 25:2　 Now five of them were wise, and five were foolish.　
Mat 25:3　 Those who were foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them,　
Mat 25:4　 but the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.　
Mat 25:5　 But while the bridegroom was delayed, they all slumbered and slept.　
Mat 25:6　 "And at midnight a cry was heard: 'Behold, the bridegroom is coming; go out to meet him!'　
Mat 25:7　 Then all those virgins arose and trimmed their lamps.　
Mat 25:8　 And the foolish said to the wise, 'Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.'　
Mat 25:9　 But the wise answered, saying, 'No, lest there should not be enough for us and you; but go rather to those who sell, and buy for yourselves.'　

Mat 25:10　 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding; and the door was shut.　

Mat 25:11　 "Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, 'Lord, Lord, open to us!'　
Mat 25:12　 But he answered and said, 'Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.'　
Mat 25:13　 "Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming.　


The only way you can make your doctrine work is by ignoring the clear words of Jesus in Matthew chapter 25. There will be no salvation based upon genealogy on the day of His Second Coming. (1 Timothy 1:4)


Gal 6:14 But it's unthinkable that I could ever brag about anything except the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ. By his cross my relationship to the world and its relationship to me have been crucified.
Gal 6:15 Certainly, it doesn't matter whether a person is circumcised or not. Rather, what matters is being a new creation.
Gal 6:16 Peace and mercy will come to rest on all those who conform to this principle. They are the Israel of God.
(GW)
.

 

[Quasar92]

What you are promoting above is rejected by the words of Christ found below.

The Parable of the Ten Virgins

Mat 25:1　 "Then the kingdom of heaven shall be likened to ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom.　
Mat 25:2　 Now five of them were wise, and five were foolish.　
Mat 25:3　 Those who were foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them,　
Mat 25:4　 but the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.　
Mat 25:5　 But while the bridegroom was delayed, they all slumbered and slept.　
Mat 25:6　 "And at midnight a cry was heard: 'Behold, the bridegroom is coming; go out to meet him!'　
Mat 25:7　 Then all those virgins arose and trimmed their lamps.　
Mat 25:8　 And the foolish said to the wise, 'Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.'　
Mat 25:9　 But the wise answered, saying, 'No, lest there should not be enough for us and you; but go rather to those who sell, and buy for yourselves.'　
Mat 25:10　 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding; and the door was shut.　
Mat 25:11　 "Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, 'Lord, Lord, open to us!'　
Mat 25:12　 But he answered and said, 'Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.'　
Mat 25:13　 "Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming.　


The only way you can make your doctrine work is by ignoring the clear words of Jesus in Matthew chapter 25. There will be no salvation based upon genealogy on the day of His Second Coming. (1 Timothy 1:4)


Gal 6:14 But it's unthinkable that I could ever brag about anything except the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ. By his cross my relationship to the world and its relationship to me have been crucified.
Gal 6:15 Certainly, it doesn't matter whether a person is circumcised or not. Rather, what matters is being a new creation.
Gal 6:16 Peace and mercy will come to rest on all those who conform to this principle. They are the Israel of God.
(GW)
.

There is nothing in your above post that refutes a single thing in my post #125 above. FYI, Mt.25 is a prophecy that will not be fulfilled until Jesus Second Coming, in Zech.12:10 and 14:4-5, I keep telling you, that you keep denying.

The "Israel of God," you are hung up on was Paul's description of the Israelites who believed in Jesus during His first advent. Which means, they belong to the One Body of Christ, Hs Church. Not to non-believing Israel. The Church, IS NOT ISRAEL, nor is ISRAEL THE CHURCH!


Quasar92

 

[BABerean2]

FYI, Mt.25 is a prophecy that will not be fulfilled until Jesus Second Coming, in Zech.12:10 and 14:4-5, I keep telling you, that you keep denying.

There is no doubt that Matthew 25 will be fulfilled at the Second Coming. I have never denied this fact.

However, your interpretation of Zechariah 12:10 does not agree with Matthew 25, because you fail to see that Zechariah 12:10 was fulfilled on the Day of Pentecost when the Spirit was poured out and those who had the Messiah pierced a few weeks earlier mourned for what they had done.

I will have to go with the version given by Christ in Matthew chapter 25.

.

 

[Quasar92]

There is no doubt that Matthew 25 will be fulfilled at the Second Coming. I have never denied this fact.

However, your interpretation of Zechariah 12:10 does not agree with Matthew 25, because you fail to see that Zechariah 12:10 was fulfilled on the Day of Pentecost when the Spirit was poured out and those who had the Messiah pierced a few weeks earlier mourned for what they had done.

I will have to go with the version given by Christ in Matthew chapter 25.

.

The following represents the Second Coming of Jesus with reference to the battle of Armageddon, repeated in Rev.19:11-21, refuting the views you compose in the previous post.

Jerusalem’s Enemies to Be Destroyed

Zech.12:1 "A prophecy: The word of the Lord concerning Israel. The Lord, who stretches out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who forms the human spirit within a person, declares: 2 “I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding peoples reeling. Judah will be besieged as well as Jerusalem. 3 On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock for all the nations. All who try to move it will injure themselves. 4 On that day I will strike every horse with panic and its rider with madness,” declares the Lord. “I will keep a watchful eye over Judah, but I will blind all the horses of the nations. 5 Then the clans of Judah will say in their hearts, ‘The people of Jerusalem are strong, because the Lord Almighty is their God.’

6 “On that day I will make the clans of Judah like a firepot in a woodpile, like a flaming torch among sheaves. They will consume all the surrounding peoples right and left, but Jerusalem will remain intact in her place.

7 “The Lord will save the dwellings of Judah first, so that the honor of the house of David and of Jerusalem’s inhabitants may not be greater than that of Judah. 8 On that day the Lord will shield those who live in Jerusalem, so that the feeblest among them will be like David, and the house of David will be like God, like the angel of the Lord going before them. 9 On that day I will set out to destroy all the nations that attack Jerusalem.

Mourning for the One They Pierced

10 “And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit[a] of grace and supplication. They will look on[b] me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son. 11 On that day the weeping in Jerusalem will be as great as the weeping of Hadad Rimmon in the plain of Megiddo. 12 The land will mourn, each clan by itself, with their wives by themselves: the clan of the house of David and their wives, the clan of the house of Nathan and their wives, 13 the clan of the house of Levi and their wives, the clan of Shimei and their wives, 14 and all the rest of the clans and their wives.

The Lord Comes and Reigns

14 A day of the Lord is coming, Jerusalem, when your possessions will be plundered and divided up within your very walls.

2 I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city. 3 Then the Lord will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights on a day of battle. 4 On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south. 5 You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake[a] in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the Lord my God will come, and all the holy ones with him.

6 On that day there will be neither sunlight nor cold, frosty darkness. 7 It will be a unique day—a day known only to the Lord—with no distinction between day and night. When evening comes, there will be light.

8 On that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half of it east to the Dead Sea and half of it west to the Mediterranean Sea, in summer and in winter.

9 The Lord will be king over the whole earth. On that day there will be one Lord, and his name the only name.

10 The whole land, from Geba to Rimmon, south of Jerusalem, will become like the Arabah. But Jerusalem will be raised up high from the Benjamin Gate to the site of the First Gate, to the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananel to the royal winepresses, and will remain in its place. 11 It will be inhabited; never again will it be destroyed. Jerusalem will be secure.

12 This is the plague with which the Lord will strike all the nations that fought against Jerusalem: Their flesh will rot while they are still standing on their feet, their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongues will rot in their mouths. 13 On that day people will be stricken by the Lord with great panic. They will seize each other by the hand and attack one another. 14 Judah too will fight at Jerusalem. The wealth of all the surrounding nations will be collected—great quantities of gold and silver and clothing. 15 A similar plague will strike the horses and mules, the camels and donkeys, and all the animals in those camps.

16 Then the survivors from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the Lord Almighty, and to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles. 17 If any of the peoples of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord Almighty, they will have no rain. 18 If the Egyptian people do not go up and take part, they will have no rain. The Lord[b] will bring on them the plague he inflicts on the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles. 19 This will be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Festival of Tabernacles.

20 On that day holy to the Lord will be inscribed on the bells of the horses, and the cooking pots in the Lord’s house will be like the sacred bowls in front of the altar.21 Every pot in Jerusalem and Judah will be holy to the Lord Almighty, and all who come to sacrifice will take some of the pots and cook in them. And on that day there will no longer be a Canaanite[c] in the house of the Lord Almighty."


Quasar92

 

[BABerean2]

The following represents the Second Coming of Jesus with reference to the battle of Armageddon, repeated in Rev.19:11-21, refuting the views you compose in the previous post.

Do you believe that you have proven Jesus to be wrong in the parable of the virgins from Matthew chapter 25 ???

.

 

[Quasar92]

Do you believe that you have proven Jesus to be wrong in the parable of the virgins from Matthew chapter 25 ???

.

Why don't you give it up? Show me from what I posted is something that proves Jesus teachings to be wrong. I would think you are fed up with shooting yourself in the foot!


Quasar92

 

[BABerean2]

Show me from what I posted is something that proves Jesus teachings to be wrong.

Joh 10:16　 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.　


Rev 12:11　 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death.　

.

 

[keras]

Firstly we must again clarify who is the 'Church' and who is 'Israel'. The true church, is every born again Christian of any ethnicity and they are the real Israelites in God's eyes.
The established Church and the citizens of the State of Israel, are not the entities referred to in Bible prophecy.

The Church, IS NOT ISRAEL, nor is ISRAEL THE CHURCH!

This wrong statement, this unbiblical doctrine, this lie upon a lie, cannot go unrefuted:
True believers are the Israel of God
Many ask, Who are God's chosen people in the earth today? Who are His elect? Are they of the natural seed of the children of Israel? Are they the "Jews" according to their ethnic lineage? Or are God's chosen people now the Christian believers of Jesus Christ?
It is commonly believed that the church must be raptured into heaven so that God can renew His separate program with the natural Jew. But is this truth? Is He going to redeem them in their present state, then remarry them?
Will the O.T. Law: the Mosaic Covenant which was only temporary, Hebrews 7:12 & 8:l3, be able to somehow in the future, disannul the Abrahamic covenant, of which the church is now the only partaker through the Seed of Abraham: Jesus Christ?

It has been well said, that the Old Testament is the New Testament concealed, and the New Testament is the Old Testament revealed. The whole Bible teaches only ONE acceptable seed, ONE family, ONE all-encompassing covenant, only ONE Israelite people as the true Covenant "children of the living God." Romans 9:26, Eph. 4:4-6

The New Covenant promised seed has been sown and is risen to replace the Old Covenant chosen seed and its unfruitful, ineffective, but once necessary life has passed out of God's plan, just as surely as have works of the Old Testament Law.
Ancient Israel, is a type of the "first man Adam, the old man": the natural body. Whereas the new Israel of Christianity is of the "last Adam, the new creation", a spiritual body.

The firstborn was Jacob, typifying Israel of the flesh- Ex.4:22; Hos.11:1. The second born: Jesus, was of the Spirit, 1 Cor.12:12-14. In Genesis 25:23 we also see two nations, a natural ethnic Israel and a spiritual true; Israel of God.

Israel of old was chosen as the firstfruits nation of the fallen Adamic seed to receive and carry the revelation of the creative, redemptive, promises of God Almighty. Isaiah 43:10; Romans 3:2 It was revealed to them long ago: I the Lord am holy and have severed you from other people, that ye should be mine. Leviticus 20:26
God later divorced ethnic Israel on the grounds of whoring after idols. Jer. 3:1-11 and will marry another woman: the true Christian believers. Matt. 21:43, Isaiah 62:1-5

The faithful and obedient children in the true "Israel of God" are being prepared and made ready, Revelation 19:7…prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.In perfect holy union, the bride, the Lamb's wife, shall be called "the holy people, the redeemed of the Lord”. 1 Peter 2:9-10, Revelation 5:9-10

False teaching is that God's chosen are still the natural Jew and that everything for us as a Christian is in heaven; that Jesus has to hurry up and rapture us out of the earth so that He can renew His program and make another covenant with the chosen Jewish nation. But, the truth of Bible teaching is that Christian believers are His only chosen and that only through Abrahams Seed, the true Christian Church, shall all the families of the earth he blessed, then we had better stop and re-evaluate this issue. The serious mistake for far too long, has been--that much of the Bible's truth concerning Israel is part of another Covenant and for another day or another people.
Friends, that is actually "another gospel." Galatians 1:8-9 Ref; Ross McKay

 

[Ronald]

The "last trump" is another name for the 100th trumpet blast at the start of the Feast of Trumpets. So, yes, it is the last in a series, just not the series you are thinking of. Plus, it's hard to think Paul would be referencing the 7 trumpets in Revelation since that hadn't been revealed yet.

Well, if that is correct than we may see the last trump being blown in October this year, during the Feast of Trumpets and that would coincide with Rev. 12:1, the sign in the heavens that will be seen on 9-23-2017, Virgo clothed with the sun, the moon at her feet with a crown of 12 stars on her head (Leo has 9 stars plus Venus, Mercury and Mars.
Paul received everything from the Lord, word for word. He wasn't instructed by the Spirit to reference the trumpets nor was it necessary for him to be aware of all the events of the Second Coming. Many didn't understand everything they wrote down with a spiritual depth that we understand today.

 

[SeventyOne]

Well, if that is correct than we may see the last trump being blown in October this year, during the Feast of Trumpets and that would coincide with Rev. 12:1, the sign in the heavens that will be seen on 9-23-2017, Virgo clothed with the sun, the moon at her feet with a crown of 12 stars on her head (Leo has 9 stars plus Venus, Mercury and Mars.
Paul received everything from the Lord, word for word. He wasn't instructed by the Spirit to reference the trumpets nor was it necessary for him to be aware of all the events of the Second Coming. Many didn't understand everything they wrote down with a spiritual depth that we understand today.

Yup, 99 days from now.

 

[keras]

Yup, 99 days from now.

I do agree that September 21-23 could be a very significant time. It may be the fulfilment of the Day of Trumpets; that will be the Sixth Seal event, prophesied over 100 times in the Bible, as the great and terrible Day of the Lord's wrath. A worldwide disaster by fire, earthquakes, storms and tsunamis.
I, too am counting down the days! But remember that we Christians have the Lord's promises for His protection on that Day. Joel 2:32, Acts 2:21

 

[Quasar92]

Firstly we must again clarify who is the 'Church' and who is 'Israel'. The true church, is every born again Christian of any ethnicity and they are the real Israelites in God's eyes.
The established Church and the citizens of the State of Israel, are not the entities referred to in Bible prophecy.

This wrong statement, this unbiblical doctrine, this lie upon a lie, cannot go unrefuted:
True believers are the Israel of God
Many ask, Who are God's chosen people in the earth today? Who are His elect? Are they of the natural seed of the children of Israel? Are they the "Jews" according to their ethnic lineage? Or are God's chosen people now the Christian believers of Jesus Christ?
It is commonly believed that the church must be raptured into heaven so that God can renew His separate program with the natural Jew. But is this truth? Is He going to redeem them in their present state, then remarry them?
Will the O.T. Law: the Mosaic Covenant which was only temporary, Hebrews 7:12 & 8:l3, be able to somehow in the future, disannul the Abrahamic covenant, of which the church is now the only partaker through the Seed of Abraham: Jesus Christ?

It has been well said, that the Old Testament is the New Testament concealed, and the New Testament is the Old Testament revealed. The whole Bible teaches only ONE acceptable seed, ONE family, ONE all-encompassing covenant, only ONE Israelite people as the true Covenant "children of the living God." Romans 9:26, Eph. 4:4-6

The New Covenant promised seed has been sown and is risen to replace the Old Covenant chosen seed and its unfruitful, ineffective, but once necessary life has passed out of God's plan, just as surely as have works of the Old Testament Law.
Ancient Israel, is a type of the "first man Adam, the old man": the natural body. Whereas the new Israel of Christianity is of the "last Adam, the new creation", a spiritual body.

The firstborn was Jacob, typifying Israel of the flesh- Ex.4:22; Hos.11:1. The second born: Jesus, was of the Spirit, 1 Cor.12:12-14. In Genesis 25:23 we also see two nations, a natural ethnic Israel and a spiritual true; Israel of God.

Israel of old was chosen as the firstfruits nation of the fallen Adamic seed to receive and carry the revelation of the creative, redemptive, promises of God Almighty. Isaiah 43:10; Romans 3:2 It was revealed to them long ago: I the Lord am holy and have severed you from other people, that ye should be mine. Leviticus 20:26
God later divorced ethnic Israel on the grounds of whoring after idols. Jer. 3:1-11 and will marry another woman: the true Christian believers. Matt. 21:43, Isaiah 62:1-5

The faithful and obedient children in the true "Israel of God" are being prepared and made ready, Revelation 19:7…prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.In perfect holy union, the bride, the Lamb's wife, shall be called "the holy people, the redeemed of the Lord”. 1 Peter 2:9-10, Revelation 5:9-10

False teaching is that God's chosen are still the natural Jew and that everything for us as a Christian is in heaven; that Jesus has to hurry up and rapture us out of the earth so that He can renew His program and make another covenant with the chosen Jewish nation. But, the truth of Bible teaching is that Christian believers are His only chosen and that only through Abrahams Seed, the true Christian Church, shall all the families of the earth he blessed, then we had better stop and re-evaluate this issue. The serious mistake for far too long, has been--that much of the Bible's truth concerning Israel is part of another Covenant and for another day or another people.
Friends, that is actually "another gospel." Galatians 1:8-9 Ref; Ross McKay

The Church IS NOT Israel, nor is Israel the Church!

The church and Israel did not begin at the same time and are, therefore, not the same entity. The nation of Israel essentially began when God called Abraham and promised to make a great nation from him.The rest of the Old Testament records the growth, development and existence of that nation. The Church did not begin in the Old Testament and, therefore, it and Israel are distinct. The unique character of the Church supports the distinction. The church, unlike Israel, is declared to be a “mystery” (Eph. 3:1-12; Col. 1:26-27). In the New Testament a “mystery” is a truth that was not revealed previously in the Old Testament.

If the Church began at Pentecost, then it did not begin or exist in the Old Testament. It is worth noting that in Matthew 16:18 the Lord Jesus used the future tense: “I will build My Church.” He did not say, “I am building My church” or “I have been building My church.” The church was something still future in Christ’s ministry, which means that it was not in existence during His ministry or in the Old Testament. The apostles would not have understood what He meant by “His church” being built in the future, but the details about the church would be given to them later. In dealing with the matter of the discipline of an individual (18:17), Jesus told them to tell it to the church or assembly. The apostles would have understood that He was speaking of a Jewish assembly. The statement of 18:17 must be understood in the light of the previous statement (16:18) of the future building of “My church.

”Certain things had to be true before the church could come into existence. First, according to the Apostle Paul, the Church is the “body of Christ” (e.g. Col. 1:18, 24 and Eph. 2:16; 3:6; 5:23, 30). It is clear that the church (the body) could not exist and function without its Head, the Lord Jesus. Jesus did not assume that role until after He had shed His blood on the cross, had been resurrected, and then ascended back into heaven. It was at that time, after those events, that the Father “put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him and head over all things to the church, which is His body” (1:22).


Quasa92r

 

[BABerean2]

The Church IS NOT Israel, nor is Israel the Church!

Act 2:36　 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."　



Rom 11:1　 I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.　



Heb 8:6　 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.　
Heb 8:7　 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.　
Heb 8:8　 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH— (From Jeremiah 31:31-34)　
Heb 8:9　 NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS IN THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT; BECAUSE THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT, AND I DISREGARDED THEM, SAYS THE LORD.　
Heb 8:10　 FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR MIND AND WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.　
Heb 8:11　 NONE OF THEM SHALL TEACH HIS NEIGHBOR, AND NONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, 'KNOW THE LORD,' FOR ALL SHALL KNOW ME, FROM THE LEAST OF THEM TO THE GREATEST OF THEM.　
Heb 8:12　 FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."　
Heb 8:13　 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.　(NKJV)



Gal 6:15 Certainly, it doesn't matter whether a person is circumcised or not. Rather, what matters is being a new creation.
Gal 6:16 Peace and mercy will come to rest on all those who conform to this principle. They are the Israel of God.
Gal 6:17 From now on, don't make any trouble for me! After all, I carry the scars of Jesus on my body.
Gal 6:18 May the good will of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit, brothers and sisters! Amen. (GW)


Providence Theological Seminary
.

 

[Quasar92]

Act 2:36　 "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ."　



Rom 11:1　 I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.　



Heb 8:6　 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises.　
Heb 8:7　 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.　
Heb 8:8　 Because finding fault with them, He says: "BEHOLD, THE DAYS ARE COMING, SAYS THE LORD, WHEN I WILL MAKE A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH— (From Jeremiah 31:31-34)　
Heb 8:9　 NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT THAT I MADE WITH THEIR FATHERS IN THE DAY WHEN I TOOK THEM BY THE HAND TO LEAD THEM OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT; BECAUSE THEY DID NOT CONTINUE IN MY COVENANT, AND I DISREGARDED THEM, SAYS THE LORD.　
Heb 8:10　 FOR THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS IN THEIR MIND AND WRITE THEM ON THEIR HEARTS; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE.　
Heb 8:11　 NONE OF THEM SHALL TEACH HIS NEIGHBOR, AND NONE HIS BROTHER, SAYING, 'KNOW THE LORD,' FOR ALL SHALL KNOW ME, FROM THE LEAST OF THEM TO THE GREATEST OF THEM.　
Heb 8:12　 FOR I WILL BE MERCIFUL TO THEIR UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."　
Heb 8:13　 In that He says, "A NEW COVENANT," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.　(NKJV)



Gal 6:15 Certainly, it doesn't matter whether a person is circumcised or not. Rather, what matters is being a new creation.
Gal 6:16 Peace and mercy will come to rest on all those who conform to this principle. They are the Israel of God.
Gal 6:17 From now on, don't make any trouble for me! After all, I carry the scars of Jesus on my body.
Gal 6:18 May the good will of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit, brothers and sisters! Amen. (GW)


Providence Theological Seminary
.

My post #137 refutes you. The New Covenant was brought into existence when Jesus shed His blood and died on a cross. HIS CHURCH, HE IS THE FOUNDER AND HEAD OF, consists of everyone who has ever believed in Him, and are all members of His Body. NOT TO ISRAEL.


Quasar92

 

[keras]

My post #137 refutes you. The New Covenant was brought into existence when Jesus shed His blood and died on a cross. HIS CHURCH, HE IS THE FOUNDER AND HEAD OF, consists of everyone who has ever believed in Him, and are all members of His Body. NOT TO ISRAEL.

What you consistently fail to get, is that those of national Israel who have accepted Jesus as Messiah, ARE now members of His Body. No future redemption, but NOW is their only opportunity. Those Jews and everyone else, who refuse the salvation on offer today, will be judged and punished on the terrible Day of the Lord's wrath. Isaiah 66:15-17, Isaiah 29:1-4, Amos 2:4-6, Luke 19:27, +