5 red heifers arrive in Israel

[Jamdoc]

Can you quote me on that?

I quoted Jeremiah and Josephus. Can you refute their testimonies?

If not, it puzzles me why you would question their testimonies.

I accept them as presented.

I am not understanding how you mean that the sacrifices have continued. My own interpretation was that Jesus was the one perfect sacrifice for all so it fulfilled them, not that they continued in the way they had done so in the temple and the tabernacle before it.

That's where my confusion is, you disagreed with the interpretation that Messiah fulfills it, which would indicate you have some way that they have continued Levitical sacrifices.

 

[Chris35]

Yeah, Jesus fulfilled it.

8First he said, “Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them”—though they were offered in accordance with the law. 9Then he said, “Here I am, I have come to do your will.” He sets aside the first to establish the second. 10And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Jews dont believe in Jesus however, so they are still under Moses, the old covenant. Therefore they have to / are seeking to start it again.

 

[HARK!]

My own interpretation was that Jesus was the one perfect sacrifice for all so it fulfilled them

Do you have a verse?

 

[HARK!]

Yeah, Jesus fulfilled it.

Yahshua fulfilled what?

8First he said, “Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them”—though they were offered in accordance with the law. 9Then he said, “Here I am, I have come to do your will.” He sets aside the first to establish the second. 10And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

This anonymous author is quoting David. Have you read the source of this quote, in order to get a full understanding of the context?

(CLV) Ps 40:8
I delight to do what is acceptable to You, my Elohim, And Your law (Torah) is in the midst of my internal parts.


Do you understand how the chata works? When the chata is being killed; the person who brought it was to identify with the animal. He was to watch as the innocent animal's blood was poured out; and his sin was to die with the animal.

How much more so with Yahshua's zebach? We are to die with him. Yahshua takes sin away. His righteousness is to be fulfilled in us.

Are you dedicated (made holy) to YHWH's perfect Torah once and for all?

Jews dont believe in Jesus however, so they are still under Moses, the old covenant. Therefore they have to / are seeking to start it again.

Have you read the Statement of Purpose for this forum?

 

[Jamdoc]

Do you have a verse?

Hebrews 7 and Hebrews 10

first Hebrews 7

11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

First explaining that Jesus is not a priest of the Levitical line, but rather after the order of Melchisedec

then continuing

20 And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest:
21 (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec
22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:
24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;
27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.
28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.

So Jesus was made our High Priest, but not after the Levitical order, and instead of sacrificing daily, it was one sacrifice of Himself once forever.

Now Hebrews 10

1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;

First arguing the case (since the letter was to Torah observant Jews) of the insufficiency of the Levitical animal sacrifices

continuing

9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

and the case for the sufficiency of Jesus' sacrifice, one time, for the rest of eternity.

then finally, the warning, that now that Messiah had been sacrificed, as the lamb of God, one time and for all, that the Levitical law offered no salvation or forgiveness of sins.

15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
21 And having an high priest over the house of God;
22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised
24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

I realize many people use verse 26 to claim that salvation can be lost through sin. But what it actually is, is that if a Torah Observant Jew hears the Gospel, and rejects it.... there's nothing in the Levitical sacrificial system that can forgive his sins. The author is making the argument that Jesus fulfilled the sacrificial system and now it has no purpose anymore, so he's kind of saying "get on the Gospel program"

Now I get that Messianics obey Torah, so I'm not trying to tread. Obeying the law of God is good, and God did attach blessings to obedience of Torah that is not part of the New Covenant, it is my understanding that Messianics go into the New Covenant for salvation and eternal life, but obey the Torah for the blessings that God has promised that are aside from Eternal life, promises on Earth. The moral laws in Torah are also reiterated by Yeshua.

I'm just a bit confused on the stance of the Levitical sacrifice system.

 

[HARK!]

So Jesus was made our High Priest, but not after the Levitical order, and instead of sacrificing daily, it was one sacrifice of Himself once forever.

This is where you might be going wrong. So far what you have presented concerns sin sacrifices. There are other kinds of sacrifices, and not everything that is called a sacrifice (zebach) in most translations, is actually a zebach. That said the verse you quoted speaks specifically of a sin sacrifice.

BTW the Passover lamb/goat was not a sin sacrifice; so the common Christian narrative has flaws.

I would encourage you to follow my study as it unfolds.

 

[HARK!]

First arguing the case (since the letter was to Torah observant Jews) of the insufficiency of the Levitical animal sacrifices

Those sacrifices were not taking away sins. Are you sinless; or have you not yet died with Yahshua?

Yahshua doesn't sweep sin under the carpet. He takes it out of the house.

 

[HARK!]

So Jesus was made our High Priest, but not after the Levitical order, and instead of sacrificing daily, it was one sacrifice of Himself once forever.

Has it registered with you yet why it is one time forever?

(CLV) Jn 1:29
On the morrow he is observing Jesus coming toward him, and is saying, "Lo! the Lamb of God Which is taking away the sin of the world!

Again, not under the carpet, he takes it out of the house.

 

[HARK!]

First arguing the case (since the letter was to Torah observant Jews) of the insufficiency of the Levitical animal sacrifices

The sin sacrifices (...and they didn't need to be an animal sacrifice. That's another common misunderstanding caused by ignorance of the Torah) were an indication that there was already an insufficiency of faithfulness. This reminds me of the movie The Jerk when people with a stigmatism were suing him for having a stigmatism after wearing his glasses.

Do you realize that these sacrifices were only for unintentional sins? Do you realize that Yahshua's sacrifice is the same.

(CLV) Hb 10:26
For at our sinning voluntarily after obtaining the recognition of the truth, it is not longer leaving a sacrifice concerned with sins,

(CLV) Hb 10:27
but a certain fearful waiting for judging and fiery jealousy, |about to be eating the hostile.

(CLV) Hb 10:28
Anyone repudiating Moses' law is dying without pity on the testimony of two or three witnesses.

(CLV) Hb 10:29
Of how much worse punishment, are you supposing, will he be counted worthy who tramples on the Son of God, and deems the blood of the covenant by which he is hallowed contaminating, and outrages the spirit of grace?

This is scary stuff! I fear YHWH.

Do you see a connection here yet?:

YHWH's Table (Part 8A)

The righteous had no need for sin sacrifices. Yahshua didn't come for them.

(CLV) Lk 5:32
I have not come to call the just, but sinners, to repentance.

He came to call the sinners (those who violate the Torah) to repent.

He came to take their sin out of the house.

 

[Jamdoc]

Those sacrifices were not taking away sins. Are you sinless; or have you not yet died with Yahshua?

Yahshua doesn't sweep sin under the carpet. He takes it out of the house.

Has it registered with you yet why it is one time forever?

(CLV) Jn 1:29
On the morrow he is observing Jesus coming toward him, and is saying, "Lo! the Lamb of God Which is taking away the sin of the world!

Again, not under the carpet, he takes it out of the house.

well as long as we're not talking about sinless perfection in this life, cause as far as I know that position isn't even allowed on these forums. In the texts from Hebrews it is forgiveness of sin, and "I will remember no more", so it is atonement for sin, but not that Christians are perfect in this life and never sin again. But I'm not sure how this ties into my question on your stance that Levitical sacrifices continue.

This is where you might be going wrong. So far what you have presented concerns sin sacrifices. There are other kinds of sacrifices, and not everything that is called a sacrifice (zebach) in most translations, is actually a zebach. That said the verse you quoted speaks specifically of a sin sacrifice.

BTW the Passover lamb/goat was not a sin sacrifice; so the common Christian narrative has flaws.

I would encourage you to follow my study as it unfolds.

Now this okay, this is more along the lines. So Jesus ended sin and transgression sacrifices, being the one sin offering for all for ever.

So you believe that some form of peace offerings continues, but could you clarify, are these offerings still animal sacrifices?

Were the daily sacrifices referred to in Daniel peace offerings? I had thought them to be sin offerings.

I suppose going back to Exodus 29 it does not specify the evening and morning burnt offerings as sin offerings, the daily sin offering is separated from that.

Exodus 29

36 And thou shalt offer every day a bullock for a sin offering for atonement: and thou shalt cleanse the altar, when thou hast made an atonement for it, and thou shalt anoint it, to sanctify it.
37 Seven days thou shalt make an atonement for the altar, and sanctify it; and it shall be an altar most holy: whatsoever toucheth the altar shall be holy.
38 Now this is that which thou shalt offer upon the altar; two lambs of the first year day by day continually.
39 The one lamb thou shalt offer in the morning; and the other lamb thou shalt offer at even:
40 And with the one lamb a tenth deal of flour mingled with the fourth part of an hin of beaten oil; and the fourth part of an hin of wine for a drink offering.
41 And the other lamb thou shalt offer at even, and shalt do thereto according to the meat offering of the morning, and according to the drink offering thereof, for a sweet savour, an offering made by fire unto the Lord.
42 This shall be a continual burnt offering throughout your generations at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the Lord: where I will meet you, to speak there unto thee.

the regular evening and morning lamb sacrifices are not said to be sin offerings, and these are the offerings referred to in Daniel 8, 9, and 11, the offerings that Christians are concerned over when it comes to things like the Red Heifer and the Third Temple.

Is that Daniel 8, 9, and 11 has these regular evening and morning sacrifices ended by the little horn/Antichrist.

So are these regular evening and morning lamb sacrifices not sin offerings then? I have heard they have been "practiced" but not really done by Israel for a long time. So that is why Christians look for them to resume, sacrifices of lambs in the evenings and mornings daily on the temple mount.

 

[Jamdoc]

The sin sacrifices (...and they didn't need to be an animal sacrifice. That's another common misunderstanding caused by ignorance of the Torah) were an indication that there was already an insufficiency of faithfulness. This reminds me of the movie The Jerk when people with a stigmatism were suing him for having a stigmatism after wearing his glasses.

Do you realize that these sacrifices were only for unintentional sins? Do you realize that Yahshua's sacrifice is the same.

(CLV) Hb 10:26
For at our sinning voluntarily after obtaining the recognition of the truth, it is not longer leaving a sacrifice concerned with sins,

(CLV) Hb 10:27
but a certain fearful waiting for judging and fiery jealousy, |about to be eating the hostile.

(CLV) Hb 10:28
Anyone repudiating Moses' law is dying without pity on the testimony of two or three witnesses.

(CLV) Hb 10:29
Of how much worse punishment, are you supposing, will he be counted worthy who tramples on the Son of God, and deems the blood of the covenant by which he is hallowed contaminating, and outrages the spirit of grace?

This is scary stuff! I fear YHWH.

Do you see a connection here yet?:

YHWH's Table (Part 8A)

The righteous had no need for sin sacrifices. Yahshua didn't come for them.

(CLV) Lk 5:32
I have not come to call the just, but sinners, to repentance.

He came to call the sinners (those who violate the Torah) to repent.

He came to take their sin out of the house.

Well, I don't want to get into soteriology arguments in a subforum for a denomination I'm not part of, I want to limit my participation only to how it pertains to any potential meaning of the daily offerings referred to in Daniel 8, 9, and 11, which as best as I can tell, is the Exodus 29 continual burnt offerings.. and the red heifers themselves.

I come at this topic because of potential eschatalogical implications.

Otherwise I don't want to tread.

 

[HARK!]

well as long as we're not talking about sinless perfection in this life, cause as far as I know that position isn't even allowed on these forums. In the texts from Hebrews it is forgiveness of sin, and "I will remember no more", so it is atonement for sin, but not that Christians are perfect in this life and never sin again. But I'm not sure how this ties into my question on your stance that Levitical sacrifices continue.

You didn't seem to understand sin sacrifices. You seemed to be assuming that all sacrifices are sin sacrifices.

Here is how it works:


(CLV) Ezk 18:21
Yet if the wicked one should turn back from all his sins which he had committed, and he observes all My statutes and executes right judgment and justice, he shall live, yea live; he shall not die.

(CLV) Ezk 18:22
Any of his transgressions which he had committed shall not be remembered against him. In his righteousness which he does shall he live.

(CLV) Ezk 18:23
Am I delighting, yea delighting in the death of the wicked, averring is my Lord Yahweh, and not rather in his turning back- from his ways that he may live?

(CLV) Ezk 18:24
Yet when the righteous one turns back from his righteousness and commits iniquity like all the abhorrences which the wicked one commits, shall he do so and live? All his righteous acts which he did shall not be remembered; in his offense with which he offended and in his sin with which he sinned, in them shall he die.

Notice that there is no mention of sacrifice here. YHWH wants repentance. YHWH wants obedience to his Torah.

I gave you scripture. Maybe you missed it before. Here it is again:

(CLV) Jer 33:18
As for the Levitical priests there shall not be cut off a man from before Me who offers up the ascent offering and fumes the approach present and offers sacrifices for all the days.

I want to make it clear that these aren't my words. I believe that these are YHWH's words.

Do you agree with these words?

 

[Jamdoc]

You didn't seem to understand sin sacrifices. You seemed to be assuming that all sacrifices are sin sacrifices.

Here is how it works:


(CLV) Ezk 18:21
Yet if the wicked one should turn back from all his sins which he had committed, and he observes all My statutes and executes right judgment and justice, he shall live, yea live; he shall not die.

(CLV) Ezk 18:22
Any of his transgressions which he had committed shall not be remembered against him. In his righteousness which he does shall he live.

(CLV) Ezk 18:23
Am I delighting, yea delighting in the death of the wicked, averring is my Lord Yahweh, and not rather in his turning back- from his ways that he may live?

(CLV) Ezk 18:24
Yet when the righteous one turns back from his righteousness and commits iniquity like all the abhorrences which the wicked one commits, shall he do so and live? All his righteous acts which he did shall not be remembered; in his offense with which he offended and in his sin with which he sinned, in them shall he die.

Notice that there is no mention of sacrifice here. YHWH wants repentance. YHWH wants obedience to his Torah.

I gave you scripture. Maybe you missed it before. Here it is again:

(CLV) Jer 33:18
As for the Levitical priests there shall not be cut off a man from before Me who offers up the ascent offering and fumes the approach present and offers sacrifices for all the days.

I want to make it clear that these aren't my words. I believe that these are YHWH's words.

Do you agree with these words?

Yes but we're getting into a tangent.

The specific offerings that are topical are:

1. the Red Heifer
2. the regular morning and evening burnt offerings that will be ended by Antichrist.

 

[HARK!]

Yes but we're getting into a tangent.

The specific offerings that are topical are:

1. the Red Heifer
2. the regular morning and evening burnt offerings that will be ended by Antichrist.

I haven't studied these out. Antichrist? Can you provide some scripture concerning this?

It seems that we are both leaning toward the assumption that these sacrifices are not connected to the sin sacrifice of Yahshua. I'm not sure how we got off on that tangent. All sacrifices are not equal; and much of what is translated as sacrifice, is not actually a zebach.

 

[Jamdoc]

I haven't studied these out. Antichrist? Can you provide some scripture concerning this?

It seems that we are both leaning toward the assumption that these sacrifices are not connected to the sin sacrifice of Yahshua. I'm not sure how we got off on that tangent. All sacrifices are not equal; and much of what is translated as sacrifice, is not actually a zebach.

Right, the scripture I'm referring to is from Daniel 8, Daniel 9, and Daniel 11

Daniel 8

8 Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.
9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.
10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.
11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of the sanctuary was cast down.
12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.
13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?
14 And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

Some people see this as being fulfilled in the past, Antiochus Epiphanes, and the He-goat from before the part I quoted to be Alexander the Great. I do not for a few reasons of historical inaccuracies, and also because of how Jesus taught in the Olivet Discourse. Now verse 14 is translated 2300 days, but in other translations it's 2300 evenings and mornings. That's how I come to the understanding of it being the evening and morning burnt offerings. I could be wrong on that. I suppose this would be the thing I'm asking you about most.

continuing in Daniel 8 I'll bold why I don't think this was about Alexander the Great

15 And it came to pass, when I, even I Daniel, had seen the vision, and sought for the meaning, then, behold, there stood before me as the appearance of a man.
16 And I heard a man's voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision.
17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.
18 Now as he was speaking with me, I was in a deep sleep on my face toward the ground: but he touched me, and set me upright.
19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.

So here, Gabriel explains that the vision was end times relevant, and had to do with the final indignation of God. Alexander and Antiochus Epiphanes were hundreds of years BC, so hardly end times.

20 The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia.
21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.

Alexander the Great was Alexander III, the 23rd King of Macedonia.

and Matthew 24

15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand)

So Jesus treats the Abomination of Desolation as a yet future event and He is referring back to Daniel, and Daniel 8 is one of those passages that refers to this abomination of desolation, referring to it as the transgression of desolation.

and other places

Daniel 9

22 And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.
23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

and Daniel 11

31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

So.. Jesus treated this as a yet future at that time event
and it's referring to a taking away of daily sacrifices, currently my understanding is that they are the evening and morning burnt offerings from Exodus 29, but I can very honestly be wrong. It is specifically daily sacrifices though, it does not say sin offerings or trespass offerings.
So I suppose that's the main question I have.

 

[HARK!]

Some people see this as being fulfilled in the past, Antiochus Epiphanes, and the He-goat from before the part I quoted to be Alexander the Great. I do not for a few reasons of historical inaccuracies, and also because of how Jesus taught in the Olivet Discourse. Now verse 14 is translated 2300 days, but in other translations it's 2300 evenings and mornings. That's how I come to the understanding of it being the evening and morning burnt offerings. I could be wrong on that. I suppose this would be the thing I'm asking you about most.

Again, Eschatology is not my strong suit; and even those who claim to be experts most often seem to get it wrong.

However, now that you have pointed out this passage; I feel the need to include it in my YHWH's Table study. What started out to be what I thought was a short study, keeps getting deeper and deeper.

 

[HARK!]

but he touched me, and set me upright.
19 And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.

Which end do you suppose this would be; and why?

Could this be after Yahshua's reign, when Satan is bound forever?

"the last end of the indignation"

 

[Jamdoc]

Again, Eschatology is not my strong suit; and even those who claim to be experts most often seem to get it wrong.

However, now that you have pointed out this passage; I feel the need to include it in my YHWH's Table study. What started out to be what I thought was a short study, keeps getting deeper and deeper.

The endless depths of the Word of God right?

 

[Jamdoc]

Which end do you suppose this would be; and why?

Could this be after Yahshua's reign, when Satan is bound forever?

"the last end of the indignation"

Well, because it is referring to the little horn, which is (aside from when people try to say the little horn in Daniel 8 is different from the little horn in Daniel 7, which i do not) a title for Antichrist, who is referred to as "the beast" in Revelation, who meets his end in Revelation 19, before the Messianic Kingdom of Christ when Satan is bound, then what is referred to is the wrath of God, the trumpets and bowls.

Revelation 6:12-17, Revelation 14:14-20, and Revelation 15:1 and Revelation 15:5-8
Basically Jesus comes back, and He's angry at the wicked, I also connect it to Isaiah 63.

I do understand different interpretations of the 1000 year period. I just interpret it literally. That there will be a 1000 year period where Messiah rules from Jerusalem while Satan is bound, then Satan is loosed, the nations are deceived, and well.. fire from heaven consumes them, then it's final judgement, perhaps the fire from heaven at the end of that 1000 year period of Satan being bound being the moment of 2 Peter 3:10 because Earth isn't even really discussed at that point, until the New Earth in Revelation 21, and the first Earth had passed away.

 

[HARK!]

The endless depths of the Word of God right?

That only scratches the surface of what I begin to see as I study his word by the otiot.

I pray that he gives me eternity for continued study.