5 dead, more than a dozen injured at LGBTQ nightclub in Colorado

rjs330

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I can't help wondering how many MORE instances there are of grooming by a member of the clergy than by a drag queen.

Every single one of them should be prosecuted. You see the difference here? We all agree that the groomers in the church are wrong and should be delt with. But you defend the groomers on the left.
 
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rjs330

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There you are again! That was your big chance, yet still no Gospel quotation!

I don't want to make too much of this, but the dearth of Gospel quotes persists.
4 “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? - Matthew 19:4-5 Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 19:4-5 - New International Version

6 “But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female.’7 ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife,8 and the two will become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two, but one flesh. - Mark 10:6-8 Bible Gateway passage: Mark 10:6-8 - New International Version
 
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Bradskii

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He's right you know. Parents raise their kids thinking they are going to be a normal kid. Then suddenly they come out and their little boy proclaims he's now a girl? And they are supposed to immediately throw their arms around them and say how wonderful? No, humans generally do t work that way. Suddenly their entire view is altered in a moment. Yes they are going to have a negative reaction. Wonder what happened. Thier boy has done something completely abnormal. Or the kid professes to be gay. Another completely abnormal behavior. Most parents are not going to react well to that as shown by the statistics. And it's patently foolish to think they should. You don't understand human psychology if you do.
I know my wife. I know my kids. I know their attitude towards their gay friends. I know, and I have discussed this with my wife as there was time that we thought our daughter might have been gay, exactly what our reaction would have been.

It would have been that there was no need to worry. That we still loved her. That we'd support her in any decisions she made. That she was not alone. That it's OK what she was feeling.

Which are exactly the things you have been complaining about. That kids who think they might be gay are told that they'll be supported. That they haven't done anything wrong. That there isn't anything wrong with them. That they'll still be loved.

I would tell any young person exactly those things. As I would tell my daughter. So gee, according to you I'd be grooming my own kid...

So let's make this crystal clear. Grooming as done by some priests was purely meant as a means to entice children into having sex. Your risible attempts to associate telling kids that some people are gay and that is ok, and if you think you are gay then we are here to support you In any way we can - that that is the equivalent of sexual predatory behaviour is exactly that. Risible.
 
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rambot

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Let's review. Which one of them said it's okay that it's happening? Your link doesn't allow us to see the whole video. I think I would like to.

Which one of them said we should or it's okay to conduct these shootings?
I would love to know which of them condemned it and which of them just smirked at the comment. I mean, he joked about being in the "Dan White Society" (Dan White famously murdered to gay fellas). He seems quite keen for it.
 
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rjs330

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We're not blaming Christianity. We are not blaming all Christians. This has been specifically stated and I strongly object to your claim that that is what is being done. And whether the guy was Christian or not is really irrelevant. It's the atmosphere that is formented by the diatribes we saw in the op which is the problem. It encourages some idiots to go that one step further and take action on the words that are being spouted from some pulpits. They feel justified in what they are doing.

It's those pastors and reverends in those links that are the problem. Those and those like them. They call themselves Christians. But they are nothing like the Christians I know. They have nothing to do with the Christianity I was taught.

Good because they have nothing to do with the Christianity I have been taught either.

But go back and re+read the posts. It's not Christians like this or those guys. It's Christians. A broad brush. You spent nearly the entire thread talking about Christians. Once I'm a while you'd bring those guys up as an example. It was until now, 12 pages later that you finally said, we are not blaming all Christians.

I'm glad you are not because those guys are such a small minority that they are nothing but a blip on the radar. But you guys make look like they are the battleship standard bearers for Christianity. When they are not.
 
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Bradskii

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Yes what those pastors said was wrong. They are a tiny tiny minority. Why are are you so focused on such a small group? Nobody ever heard of these guys except people who want to search for and highlite them.

You are the ones that are making them more well known than they are.
This is common. The derogatory remarks are everywhere you'd care to look. I listed another 18 groups for you. All well supported. All influential. All part of the problem.

I mean, do you know any anti-gay rhetoric that isn't religiously based? You say that religion is not to blame yet you yourself have spent post after post insisting that it's wrong for religious reasons.
 
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Whyayeman

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4 “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? - Matthew 19:4-5 Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 19:4-5 - New International Version

6 “But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female.’7 ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife,8 and the two will become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two, but one flesh. - Mark 10:6-8 Bible Gateway passage: Mark 10:6-8 - New International Version
We have had those already on this thread, so to repeat myself - there is no specific mention of gay relationships. For that you must go elsewhere.

Don't worry, though, it is not just on this thread, it is every forum where I am allowed to post.

We are all seriously off-topic, but just saying: I am beginning to realise that the Gospels are a poor source of support for many of the positions taken on these forums.
 
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rjs330

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You might want to take a moment and contemplate that statement.

Why? I'm pretty clear on it and so is the Bible. If you are trying to twist the words to mean that Jesus creat d homosexuals and transsexuals, to be that way, you are incorrect. Because Jesus said what he made. Men and Women and men and women for each other.

Jesus also said that it's wrong for men to sleep with men as a woman. He also said

Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones.In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done.They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, - Romans 1:24-29 Bible Gateway passage: Romans 1:24-29 - New International Version

Wait you might say that was Paul not Jesus. You'd be wrong. Because Jesus is God and the the Christ.

these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words.The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments,for, “Who has known the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ. - 1 Corinthians 2:10,13-16 Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 2:10, 1 Corinthians 2:13-16 - New International Version

Hey that they are taught by God and have the mind if Christ. So if that is true then what Paul says in Romans is from the Spirit and Christ.

But I want to point something else out here. It's this:

done.They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips,

Paul doesn't just mention the sin of homosexuality, he also mentions every kind of wickedness, deceipt, strife, malice and gossip. Of course he mentions more later, but ponder that for a moment. People are filled with this. You know what, Christians have done these things too. So what's the difference? Paul explains that the Christian isn't filled with this or walk in this. If they do they are no longer a believer. Those in the world are filled with it and walk in it. Without Christ no one can break free of that.

Christians arent special. They aren't some kind is special person cause they try hard. No, we have been saved through grace and not anything we have done. Our righteousness is NOT self created. It's the righteousness of Christ that covers us. In and of ourselves we are no better than anyone on that list.

We still aren't better, we simply trust Christ and the Holy Spirit to make us better cause there is no way we can do it on our own.

I am sanctifies by Christ yet not I but Christ lives in me and the life I live in the flesh I live by the faith of the sin of God who loved me a s gave himself for me.

If I say I have no sin then I am a liar and the truth is not in me.

If anyone says that's they are a liar. That goes for the homosexual as well as the thief the liar and th those filled with malice and the gossip.
 
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rjs330

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We have had those already on this thread, so to repeat myself - there is no specific mention of gay relationships. For that you must go elsewhere.

Don't worry, though, it is not just on this thread, it is every forum where I am allowed to post.

We are all seriously off-topic, but just saying: I am beginning to realise that the Gospels are a poor source of support for many of the positions taken on these forums.

Did you not understand that Jesus IS mentioning homosexual relationships? You missed the point completely. Jesus specifically addresses what man and women were created for. Anything else outside of that is NOT what was created. So he addresses all of it. He didn't have to go into all the details of what was not created. He did not have to say, homosexuality is a violation of this creation, inappropriate behavior with animals is a violation, pedophilia is a violation, bi-sexuality is a violation etc as nauseam. He would have had to dedicat an entire hour covering every single thing that was not created. That's foolishness.

What he did put a stamp on is what WAS created. Everything else was not.

And if he didn't create it who did?
 
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Bradskii

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Why? I'm pretty clear on it and so is the Bible. If you are trying to twist the words to mean that Jesus creat d homosexuals and transsexuals, to be that way, you are incorrect. Because Jesus said what he made. Men and Women and men and women for each other.

Jesus also said that it's wrong for men to sleep with men as a woman. He also said

Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones.In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done.They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, - Romans 1:24-29 Bible Gateway passage: Romans 1:24-29 - New International Version

Wait you might say that was Paul not Jesus. You'd be wrong. Because Jesus is God and the the Christ.

these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words.The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments,for, “Who has known the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ. - 1 Corinthians 2:10,13-16 Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 2:10, 1 Corinthians 2:13-16 - New International Version

Hey that they are taught by God and have the mind if Christ. So if that is true then what Paul says in Romans is from the Spirit and Christ.

But I want to point something else out here. It's this:

done.They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips,

Paul doesn't just mention the sin of homosexuality, he also mentions every kind of wickedness, deceipt, strife, malice and gossip. Of course he mentions more later, but ponder that for a moment. People are filled with this. You know what, Christians have done these things too. So what's the difference? Paul explains that the Christian isn't filled with this or walk in this. If they do they are no longer a believer. Those in the world are filled with it and walk in it. Without Christ no one can break free of that.

Christians arent special. They aren't some kind is special person cause they try hard. No, we have been saved through grace and not anything we have done. Our righteousness is NOT self created. It's the righteousness of Christ that covers us. In and of ourselves we are no better than anyone on that list.

We still aren't better, we simply trust Christ and the Holy Spirit to make us better cause there is no way we can do it on our own.

I am sanctifies by Christ yet not I but Christ lives in me and the life I live in the flesh I live by the faith of the sin of God who loved me a s gave himself for me.

If I say I have no sin then I am a liar and the truth is not in me.

If anyone says that's they are a liar. That goes for the homosexual as well as the thief the liar and th those filled with malice and the gossip.
So a complete post saying that the only reason homosexuality is wrong is because it's religiously ordained. And yet when gays are bullied, beaten and actually murdered it's 'Hey, it's really nothing to do with religion'.

How do you manage to keep those two thoughts in your head concurrently?
 
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lismore

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So a complete post saying that the only reason homosexuality is wrong is because it's religiously ordained. And yet when gays are bullied, beaten and actually murdered it's 'Hey, it's really nothing to do with religion'.

How do you manage to keep those two thoughts in your head concurrently?
All Christians look on bullying, beating and murder as being horrifically evil. Anyone who advocates such things is not a Christian but a wolf in wolf's clothing, no ifs no buts. It's possible to disagree respectfully with something without persecuting those who are doing it. God Bless :)
 
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Desk trauma

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All Christians look on bullying, beating and murder as being horrifically evil. Anyone who advocates such things is not a Christian but a wolf in wolf's clothing, no ifs no buts. It's possible to disagree respectfully with something without persecuting those who are doing it. God Bless :)
No true Christian, the ever ready standby.
 

lismore

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No true Christian, the ever ready standby.
And the easily checkable standby.

Matthew 5:43-48 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect"

God Bless :)
 
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Desk trauma

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And the easily checkable standby.

Matthew 5:43-48 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect"

God Bless :)
Whatever that was suppose to mean.

Question: where there no Christians back when abuse, ostracism and legal sanction was the standard treatment for those found out as homosexuals?
 
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Brihaha

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We have had those already on this thread, so to repeat myself - there is no specific mention of gay relationships. For that you must go elsewhere.

Don't worry, though, it is not just on this thread, it is every forum where I am allowed to post.

We are all seriously off-topic, but just saying: I am beginning to realise that the Gospels are a poor source of support for many of the positions taken on these forums.

Some folks are not living in the new covenant of faith with which God graced us. They are still living in the older times when salvation was only determined by the law. It is not our charge to judge the sins of others now, except to keep those in our group in line with His word. Especially regarding the judgment of pagans. I Corinthians 5:9-13 is a reminder not to judge those without God. And those who are without God judgeth. I attached a link here that explains it better.


I think many people such as yourself have a much higher probability of attaining Heaven than half of so-called Christians themselves. Judgment seems to be their stumbling block.
 
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lismore

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Whatever that was suppose to mean.

Question: where there no Christians back when abuse, ostracism and legal sanction was the standard treatment for those found out as homosexuals?
Answer: There were very few Christians then or now, as indeed the Lord Jesus Christ said there would be:

“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves" (Matthew 7:13-15)

'Only a few'. And watch out for ferocious wolves pretending to be Christians.

God Bless :)
 
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Trogdor the Burninator

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Yeah but that happens with any political candidate. Christians aren't especially guilty of being overly energetic about their candidates. That's the nature of politics.

IMO it was on a whole other level with Trump. When I compare the reaction of many Christians, even on this forum, in their support of Trump versus other presidents such as Biden or Obama, or even other Christian-leaning Republicans like Bush and Regan - it simply wasn't in the same ballpark.

Now some of that I attribute to the nature of modern politics, but not all of it.
 
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Ignatius the Kiwi

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IMO it was on a whole other level with Trump. When I compare the reaction of many Christians, even on this forum, in their support of Trump versus other presidents such as Biden or Obama, or even other Christian-leaning Republicans like Bush and Regan - it simply wasn't in the same ballpark.

Now some of that I attribute to the nature of modern politics, but not all of it.
Are you a leftist and dislike Trump?
 
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Whyayeman

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Why? I'm pretty clear on it and so is the Bible. If you are trying to twist the words to mean that Jesus creat d homosexuals and transsexuals, to be that way, you are incorrect. Because Jesus said what he made. Men and Women and men and women for each other.

Jesus also said that it's wrong for men to sleep with men as a woman. He also said

Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones.In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done.They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, - Romans 1:24-29 Bible Gateway passage: Romans 1:24-29 - New International Version

Wait you might say that was Paul not Jesus. You'd be wrong. Because Jesus is God and the the Christ.

these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words.The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments,for, “Who has known the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ. - 1 Corinthians 2:10,13-16 Bible Gateway passage: 1 Corinthians 2:10, 1 Corinthians 2:13-16 - New International Version

Hey that they are taught by God and have the mind if Christ. So if that is true then what Paul says in Romans is from the Spirit and Christ.

But I want to point something else out here. It's this:

done.They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips,

Paul doesn't just mention the sin of homosexuality, he also mentions every kind of wickedness, deceipt, strife, malice and gossip. Of course he mentions more later, but ponder that for a moment. People are filled with this. You know what, Christians have done these things too. So what's the difference? Paul explains that the Christian isn't filled with this or walk in this. If they do they are no longer a believer. Those in the world are filled with it and walk in it. Without Christ no one can break free of that.

Christians arent special. They aren't some kind is special person cause they try hard. No, we have been saved through grace and not anything we have done. Our righteousness is NOT self created. It's the righteousness of Christ that covers us. In and of ourselves we are no better than anyone on that list.

We still aren't better, we simply trust Christ and the Holy Spirit to make us better cause there is no way we can do it on our own.

I am sanctifies by Christ yet not I but Christ lives in me and the life I live in the flesh I live by the faith of the sin of God who loved me a s gave himself for me.

If I say I have no sin then I am a liar and the truth is not in me.

If anyone says that's they are a liar. That goes for the homosexual as well as the thief the liar and th those filled with malice and the gossip.
I'm giving stars to posters who quote from the Gospels. No star this time!

This is not any kind of attack on faith. I am sure the Christians here have it in abundance, and joy to them all.
 
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SimplyMe

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You and how many others have been vilifying Christians in this thread now?

And it turns out that the killer was part of the LGBTQ community.
Actually, we don't know that. We know that the defense is claiming he is so they can use it as a defense -- that does not make it true, instead it could easily so they can claim "he can't have committed a Hate Crime because he is one of them"). The fact that they merely claim he is "they/them" and Mx instead of Mr. makes it look even more suspicious looking. I'll be interested in what further information comes out about his past. If he is truly non-binary then, particularly with his past of being publicly bullied, there should be evidence.
 
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