LDS 4000 Changes To The BOM

[Peter1000]

When the printers manuscript was sent to the publisher for printing, it did not contain punctuation and it was left to the editor or typesetter to include whatever punctuation they thought was appropriate. Most of the changes result from fixing those punctuation errors. The rest are textual changes that do drastically alter the meaning of some of the more significant passages of the book (as was mentioned in another thread there were several changes to verses in Nephi that alluded to a more modalistic view of God and they were changed to correspond to a more Trinitarian view). And the LDS then completely altered the chapter/verse set-up from the original, which created some mild confusion (don't know that any of it was textual.)

I haven't studied this subject for a while. but as I remember, it was JS himself that changed some of the text because he felt it was confusing. And so the translator himself made some changes to the text. I do not think, and I could be wrong that the LDS completely altered any chapter from the original. It seems to me that only JS made changes.

 

[RoseCrystal]

Mosiah 21:28 was changed in 1964 from

"king Benjamin had a gift from God, whereby he could interpret such engravings; " to

"king Mosiah had a gift from God, whereby he could interpret such engravings; "

thats a completely different person, so not a small change, and not done by JS

 

[Peter1000]

I’m sure they do

They make excuses for all of their gross errors and heterodox teachings so why would this be any different.

Your lack of knowledge is pretty clear, you have little understanding of the BOM or its history.
Did you read what Ironhold told you to read. If you had, then at least you would have a reasonable discussion of the subject. For instance tell me about the 4,000 changes. How many were puncuation and grammatical changes. How many were actual textual changes, and who made those textual changes.

Tell me these things, and maybe we can start to have a real discussion.

Your lack of knowledge about biblical translations and copying is astounding too.

 

[Peter1000]

Mosiah 21:28 was changed in 1964 from

"king Benjamin had a gift from God, whereby he could interpret such engravings; " to

"king Mosiah had a gift from God, whereby he could interpret such engravings; "

thats a completely different person, so not a small change, and not done by JS

You are right, it took 134 years from JS and about 1564 years from Mormon, who made the mistake to get it corrected properly. So glad we got the right person finally in the text.

 

[RoseCrystal]

You are right, it took 134 years from JS and about 1564 years from Mormon, who made the mistake to get it corrected properly. So glad we got the right person finally in the text.

But its the most correct book ever written right? so I can understand grammar issues but a completely different person? It raises serious doubt as to the accuracy of the translation and weather you can trust of the book of mormon at all. What else will change? Maybe mormons name was really Fred and we just don't know it yet? Maybe it didn't even happen in America. Maybe it didn't even happen at all. The point is you can't trust what it says because it keeps changing.

 

[Peter1000]

But its the most correct book ever written right? so I can understand grammar issues but a completely different person? It raises serious doubt as to the accuracy of the translation and weather you can trust of the book of mormon at all. What else will change? Maybe mormons name was really Fred and we just don't know it yet? Maybe it didn't even happen in America. Maybe it didn't even happen at all. The point is you can't trust what it says because it keeps changing.

The translation was correct, the compiler of the original manuscript was mistaken. Remember Mormon, around 400ad took the entire vast volume of the record of his people since around 600bc and abridged or condensed the entire record into a smaller, readable record, this abridgement was done on gold plates so they would last forever. JS only translated 1/3 of this abridgement, and we await the translation of the other 2/3's. Anyway, Mormon did not personally know the people at the time of Benjamin and Mosiah which lived before Christ, or at least 400-500 years before him. So he made a mistake with the story and mixed up Benjamin and Mosiah who were contemporaries of each other.

JS just translated what Mormon wrote, so it was not a translation error, it was an original manuscript error.

 

[RoseCrystal]

So the excuse is that Mormon the supposed original writer of the alleged golden plates got it wrong....... seems pretty convenient to me.

 

[RoseCrystal]

@Peter1000 What about these two changes? Its interesting to note that these changes were made not by JS, and that it was only in 1978 that the LDS church changed their minds about black people being able to hold the priesthood, these changes seem to align with the church new point of view, again, this seems very convenient.

2 Nephi, ch. 5. In 1981 it reads
The Nephites separate themselves from the Lamanites, keep the law of Moses, and build a temple—Because of their unbelief, the Lamanites are cursed, receive a skin of blackness, and become a scourge unto the Nephites.
in 2010 it reads
The Nephites separate themselves from the Lamanites, keep the law of Moses, and build a temple—Because of their unbelief, the Lamanites are cursed, cut off from the presence of the Lord, are cursed, and become a scourge unto the Nephites.

Mormon, ch. 5. In 1981 reads
Mormon again leads the Nephite armies in battles of blood and carnage—The Book of Mormon shall come forth to convince all Israel that Jesus is the Christ—The Lamanites shall be a dark, filthy, and loathsome people—They shall receive the gospel from the Gentiles in the latter days.
in 2010 it reads
Mormon again leads the Nephite armies in battles of blood and carnage—The Book of Mormon will come forth to convince all Israel that Jesus is the Christ— Because of their unbelief, the Lamanites will be scattered, and the Spirit will cease to strive with them—They will receive the gospel from the Gentiles in the latter days.

5,000 Changes to the Book of Mormon - | - Mormon Handbook

 

[Peter1000]

@Peter1000 What about these two changes? Its interesting to note that these changes were made not by JS, and that it was only in 1978 that the LDS church changed their minds about black people being able to hold the priesthood, these changes seem to align with the church new point of view, again, this seems very convenient.

2 Nephi, ch. 5. In 1981 it reads
The Nephites separate themselves from the Lamanites, keep the law of Moses, and build a temple—Because of their unbelief, the Lamanites are cursed, receive a skin of blackness, and become a scourge unto the Nephites.
in 2010 it reads
The Nephites separate themselves from the Lamanites, keep the law of Moses, and build a temple—Because of their unbelief, the Lamanites are cursed, cut off from the presence of the Lord, are cursed, and become a scourge unto the Nephites.

Mormon, ch. 5. In 1981 reads
Mormon again leads the Nephite armies in battles of blood and carnage—The Book of Mormon shall come forth to convince all Israel that Jesus is the Christ—The Lamanites shall be a dark, filthy, and loathsome people—They shall receive the gospel from the Gentiles in the latter days.
in 2010 it reads
Mormon again leads the Nephite armies in battles of blood and carnage—The Book of Mormon will come forth to convince all Israel that Jesus is the Christ— Because of their unbelief, the Lamanites will be scattered, and the Spirit will cease to strive with them—They will receive the gospel from the Gentiles in the latter days.

5,000 Changes to the Book of Mormon - | - Mormon Handbook

Good question. But what you have to understand is the BOM, in the hands of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, is a little different than the Bible in the hands of the public domain.

Here is the difference. When JS translated the BOM, he was a prophet of God, and it was by the power of God that this translation came forth. There is still today, 170 years from JS, prophets that guide the church through revelation from Jesus Christ. There are in the translation some very sensitive words having to do with the descendents of Laman and Lemuel, brothers of Nephi. So the prophet in 2010, Thomas Monson went to the Lord Jesus Christ in prayer, and was given permission to change these words so that a whole group of people would not be so offended as to not be able to read the book.

So a prophet of God in 1829, through revelation, translated the BOM, and a prophet of God in 2010, through revelation, was permitted to change some of the words. The different wording did not change the meaning of the verses, but it made the verses less offensive. That is how a, active, live, dynajmic, Jesus-lead church is able to adjust from one generation to another, and still uphold the truth of the gospel.

Are you aware of the words of Jesus in the BOM? Start reading in 3rd Nephi, chapter 11, when Jesus appears to the people of the Americas after his death and resurrection, and tells them who he is and preaches his gospel to them. It is quite interesting.

 

[Peter1000]

So the excuse is that Mormon the supposed original writer of the alleged golden plates got it wrong....... seems pretty convenient to me.

Nevertheless, this is the answer to your question. Remember, Mormon lived 500 years after Benjamin and Mosiah. Read FairMormon about the answer too.

 

[Peter1000]

But its the most correct book ever written right? so I can understand grammar issues but a completely different person? It raises serious doubt as to the accuracy of the translation and weather you can trust of the book of mormon at all. What else will change? Maybe mormons name was really Fred and we just don't know it yet? Maybe it didn't even happen in America. Maybe it didn't even happen at all. The point is you can't trust what it says because it keeps changing.

Remember, it is the most correct book theologically, not necessarily gramatically or otherwise, but theologically it is the most correct.

 

[drstevej]

Remember, it is the most correct book theologically, not necessarily gramatically or otherwise, but theologically it is the most correct.

Now, just drop the theologically correct point and you're free!

 

[RoseCrystal]

Good question. But what you have to understand is the BOM, in the hands of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, is a little different than the Bible in the hands of the public domain.

Here is the difference. When JS translated the BOM, he was a prophet of God, and it was by the power of God that this translation came forth. There is still today, 170 years from JS, prophets that guide the church through revelation from Jesus Christ. There are in the translation some very sensitive words having to do with the descendents of Laman and Lemuel, brothers of Nephi. So the prophet in 2010, Thomas Monson went to the Lord Jesus Christ in prayer, and was given permission to change these words so that a whole group of people would not be so offended as to not be able to read the book.

So a prophet of God in 1829, through revelation, translated the BOM, and a prophet of God in 2010, through revelation, was permitted to change some of the words. The different wording did not change the meaning of the verses, but it made the verses less offensive. That is how a, active, live, dynajmic, Jesus-lead church is able to adjust from one generation to another, and still uphold the truth of the gospel.

Are you aware of the words of Jesus in the BOM? Start reading in 3rd Nephi, chapter 11, when Jesus appears to the people of the Americas after his death and resurrection, and tells them who he is and preaches his gospel to them. It is quite interesting.

This is not a good explanation of why the LDS church removed the racist comments from the Book of Mormon, it seems a lot more like Thomas Monson was conforming to the fact that the world doesn't put up with racist jerks anymore and he didn't want the LDS church to be labeled as such.

JS was a prophet, he dictated by the power of God that black people were bad and cursed. Changing it almost 200 years later so black people can read the book of mormon and not be offended by the blatant racist attitude towards them is not a 'revelation' from God - its damage control.

I've read fair mormon extensively on the changes to the book of mormon, at the end of the day, God doesn't mess up that bad, and if Joseph Smith really was translating the alleged plates by the power of God or the Holy Spirit, then it wouldn't need to be changed. The whole argument just testifies to the fact that it is not of God at all.

 

[RoseCrystal]

Remember, it is the most correct book theologically, not necessarily gramatically or otherwise, but theologically it is the most correct.

Theologically God revealed to Jospeh Smith that Black people were cursed. Then Thomas Monson the prophet of the church at the time changed it, should anyone really be changing the words of God?

How can the Book of Mormon be the most theologically correct book on earth if its theology changes with what is socially acceptable at the time?

If it truely was the most theologically correct book on earth then there would be no need for its theology to change now would there.

 

[Ironhold]

Theologically God revealed to Jospeh Smith that Black people were cursed.

No, it doesn't.

It reveals that a group of people were about to wipe themselves out in a needless civil war, and so one faction was given a distinctive marker to encourage physical separation.

If you'd read the BoM, you'd see that it goes back and forth as to which faction was the more righteous.

 

[RoseCrystal]

No, it doesn't.

It reveals that a group of people were about to wipe themselves out in a needless civil war, and so one faction was given a distinctive marker to encourage physical separation.

If you'd read the BoM, you'd see that it goes back and forth as to which faction was the more righteous.

2 Nephi, ch. 5. In 1981 it reads
The Nephites separate themselves from the Lamanites, keep the law of Moses, and build a temple—Because of their unbelief, the Lamanites are cursed, receive a skin of blackness, and become a scourge unto the Nephites.

clearly the curse is black skin and if the book of mormon is the most theologically correct book on earth then that can't change, yet Thomas monson changed it when it was undeniable that the world no longer tolerated racism.

And I have read the book of mormon, and the book of Abraham and most of the D&C

 

[Peter1000]

Theologically God revealed to Jospeh Smith that Black people were cursed. Then Thomas Monson the prophet of the church at the time changed it, should anyone really be changing the words of God?

How can the Book of Mormon be the most theologically correct book on earth if its theology changes with what is socially acceptable at the time?

If it truely was the most theologically correct book on earth then there would be no need for its theology to change now would there.

You obviously did not read my post 49. If a prophet, by revelation translated a book in 1829, and a prophet through revelation changed a sentence to be less offensive, but did not change the meaning of the verse, then that is what revelation from the Lord Jesus Christ is all about.

And if you want to stay with your most correct book scenario, then the change just made it even more correct than before, but still the most correct.

 

[Peter1000]

2 Nephi, ch. 5. In 1981 it reads
The Nephites separate themselves from the Lamanites, keep the law of Moses, and build a temple—Because of their unbelief, the Lamanites are cursed, receive a skin of blackness, and become a scourge unto the Nephites.

clearly the curse is black skin and if the book of mormon is the most theologically correct book on earth then that can't change, yet Thomas monson changed it when it was undeniable that the world no longer tolerated racism.

And I have read the book of mormon, and the book of Abraham and most of the D&C

The change was done by a prophet of God, by revelation directly from Jesus Christ. It is OK to do that in those circumstances.

Whereas the bible is changed, simply because the translators feel like it should be different. Not good.

 

[Peter1000]

This is not a good explanation of why the LDS church removed the racist comments from the Book of Mormon, it seems a lot more like Thomas Monson was conforming to the fact that the world doesn't put up with racist jerks anymore and he didn't want the LDS church to be labeled as such.

JS was a prophet, he dictated by the power of God that black people were bad and cursed. Changing it almost 200 years later so black people can read the book of mormon and not be offended by the blatant racist attitude towards them is not a 'revelation' from God - its damage control.

I've read fair mormon extensively on the changes to the book of mormon, at the end of the day, God doesn't mess up that bad, and if Joseph Smith really was translating the alleged plates by the power of God or the Holy Spirit, then it wouldn't need to be changed. The whole argument just testifies to the fact that it is not of God at all.

If you had read the BOM you would know that God did not think that black people are bad and cursed. But the sons of Lehi, Laman and Lemuel were bad and he wanted to create a marker that distinguished them from their other brothers. So he did. But no discussion that black people are all bad people. You made that up.

I can see that nothing I say will change your mind about the BOM. So be a good person for God, and we will try to do the same thing. Thank you.

 

[RoseCrystal]

If you had read the BOM you would know that God did not think that black people are bad and cursed. But the sons of Lehi, Laman and Lemuel were bad and he wanted to create a marker that distinguished them from their other brothers. So he did. But no discussion that black people are all bad people. You made that up.

I can see that nothing I say will change your mind about the BOM. So be a good person for God, and we will try to do the same thing. Thank you.

This is a debate forum, we are currently debating the changes in the book of mormon. You claim it is the most theologically correct book on earth, yet the changes change the theology.

The actions of the God of the book of mormon are racist in the fact that the marker your God chose was to ostracise a group of people based on their skin being changed to black so others would know they are cut off from the presence of the lord