4 Reasons John was writing a gospel sermon about suffering under Rome

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keras

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So what mountain is that temple going to be built on?
Mount Zion, in Jerusalem.
Jesus stands there as He selects the 144,000. Revelation 14:1
Only because you read the Old over the New. The disciples most definitely saw it the other way around!
Maybe they did, they seem to have been quite confused about God Plans.
The OT is confirmed in the NT and we see the new Temple in 2 Thess 2:4 and Rev 11:1
That's Covenant Theology.
Thats truth of who we Christians actually are; the Overcomers for God - His Israelite people.
Careful brother - because it sounds like you're saying the people of Judah - the genetic Jews - are going to inherit everything described in Hebrews for Christians alone! Sorry pal - but you're destroying the gospel again.
The Jewish people face imminent Judgment/punishment. Only a remnant will survive. Isaiah 29:1-4, Isaiah 6:11-13, Romans 9:27
But the 10 Northern tribes have a different destiny, Jesus came to save them and He was successful.
Israel, the Israelite people, are a known entity. But that doesn't stop Paul "Spiritualising" them into the church.
Yes; The Apostles [and Josephus too] knew who and where the 10 tribes of the house of Israel lived then. They have since scatted around the world, but God knows them. Amos 9:8-9 The Church consists of the majority of them.
Otherwise you're saying Jews who have not had faith in Christ get all the benefits of faith in Christ - which according to Hebrews is blasphemous. It really sounds like you need to go over the basic gospel again! Reread Hebrews. Sit and binge it, and see how Jesus fulfils all OT functions of sacrifice, temple, land and law.
Messianic Jews, the few with a true faith in Jesus, do receive the benefits of Christianity.
Hebrews applied for the last nearly 2000 years. Soon to be superseded by a return to Temple worship and only a few years later, by the Return of Jesus to the earth.
Good! But Hebrews says we have not come to a physical mountain but a heavenly one, not a physical land but a heavenly one and even old Abraham was looking forward to 'heaven' (which I entirely approve of your description of coming down here and paradise being very physical.) Basically, we're not bound by the OT promises of the 'Holy Lands' to Abraham any longer because the blessing has gone out into the whole world.
Again; our situation during this Church age.
Make no mistake, the holy Land is special to God and He watches that area closely. Deuteronomy 11:11-12 His faithful people will inherit it: Psalms 69:32-26, Isaiah 65:9, Romans 9:24-26
 
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eclipsenow

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God will allow the AC to conquer the holy people and have control of all the world for the final 3 1/2 years.
Oh, wow, so that's like 2026-ish according to your whacky reading of Hosea's call to repent and Jesus travel plans?

If you designate the Prophetic Word as 'fantasies and fallacies', then you are hopelessly in the dark about God's Plans for our future. Why be like that?
I've never designated any real prophecy a fantasy.
But the thing you quote is Hosea prophesying that if Israel repents, God will forgive.
Not quite sure how you get such an emphatic and dogmatic end-times-table out of that? :scratch: :sigh: :scratch: :sigh: :scratch: But hey, what was that line out of To Kill a Mockingbird? Some people are more dangerous with a bible than they are with a bottle of whiskey? :oldthumbsup:

You just keep calling your fantasies "prophecies" and getting on your high horse if that's what gives you your kicks in your retirement. Personally I'd rather spend time with family and grandchildren and - I don't know - sharing the gospel with people rather than jumping up and down and stamping my foot about a crazy wall I'd made from some half-read verses and a dream my subconscious cooked up!
Crazy.png
 
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jgr

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Jesus will chain up the AC at His Return and the temple will be cleansed and rededicated 1335 days after it was desecrated. Daniel 12:12

Daniel 12
12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

Does your Bible contain "temple", "chain up", "cleansed", and "rededicated'?

What version is that?

Mine doesn't. Nowhere in the entire chapter.
 
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eclipsenow

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Mount Zion, in Jerusalem.
Jesus stands there as He selects the 144,000. Revelation 14:1
But Ezekiel says it will be on a giant mountain?


The Jewish people face imminent Judgment/punishment. Only a remnant will survive. Isaiah 29:1-4, Isaiah 6:11-13, Romans 9:27
You really have a problem with comprehending what we're discussing don't you? Go back up thread and find it. I'm asking you why you think you can read one verse from Hebrews as about spiritual Israelites and the very next verse about genetic Jews when the whole passage says both are the church.


But the 10 Northern tribes have a different destiny, Jesus came to save them and He was successful.
Blah blah blah out of context nothing to do with anything.

Yes; The Apostles [and Josephus too] knew who and where the 10 tribes of the house of Israel lived then. They have since scatted around the world, but God knows them. Amos 9:8-9 The Church consists of the majority of them.
Blah blah blah out of context nothing to do with anything.

Messianic Jews, the few with a true faith in Jesus, do receive the benefits of Christianity.
Just say Christians, OK?

Hebrews applied for the last nearly 2000 years. Soon to be superseded by a return to Temple worship and only a few years later, by the Return of Jesus to the earth.
That's appalling heresy mate - heresy! Hebrews is NOT going to be superseded by the Old Testament - as it shows how Jesus fulfils the Old Testament prophecies and what the whole Old Testament meant. You're simply too attached to your specific reading of certain OT passages that Jesus and the apostles say are done and dusted. There are passages all through the New Testament that show how thoroughly the church has replaced Israel - going all the way back to Sarah and Hagar.

Galatians 4
21 Tell me, you who want to be under the law, are you not aware of what the law says? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman. 23 His son by the slave woman was born according to the flesh, but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a divine promise.

24 These things are being taken figuratively: The women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. 25 Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother. 27 For it is written:

“Be glad, barren woman,
you who never bore a child;
shout for joy and cry aloud,
you who were never in labor;
because more are the children of the desolate woman
than of her who has a husband.”

28 Now you, brothers and sisters, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29 At that time the son born according to the flesh persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same now. 30 But what does Scripture say? “Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman’s son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman’s son.” 31 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman.​


Again; our situation during this Church age.
Make no mistake, the holy Land is special to God and He watches that area closely. Deuteronomy 11:11-12 His faithful people will inherit it: Psalms 69:32-26, Isaiah 65:9,
The image of the temple, mountain, and land are all replaced by Jesus and him sending the disciples out to all nations!



Romans 9:24-26
Romans shows how Jesus fulfils the Old Testament and makes the OT ideas of land and temple and sacrifice superseded by the gospel. There is no land promise here!

22 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? 23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— 24 even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles? 25 As he says in Hosea:

“I will call them ‘my people’ who are not my people;
and I will call her ‘my loved one’ who is not my loved one,”
26 and,
“In the very place where it was said to them,
‘You are not my people,’
there they will be called ‘children of the living God.’”

But check out the land implications here!

The emphasis as the gospel explodes out of ethnic Israel into the surrounding nations is that all nations and tribes and people and lands will worship God in his new kingdom - the church. There is no Jew or Greek, male or female, we're all one in Christ. It explodes out to the whole world.

Acts 1:8
8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.”

And it was actually what Abraham was looking forward to. Hebrews 12 shows Abraham was "looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God." Revelation 21 shows that city to be 2200 km on a side - basically the size of the whole known Roman empire and world (back then). In other words - the land Abraham was now looking forward to is the whole earth! Jesus gospel fulfilment of the sacrificial system does away with the temple, in that Jesus is the temple that was destroyed and raised again in 3 days, and us the church are the temple now. Not only that, he lived as the perfect Israel. Not only that, but the gospel is going out to all the nations. Not only that, but the very definition of the holy lands is changed in the process - and we now inherit the whole earth. That's a gospel declaration of the lavish and abundant love we have in Christ. How amazing it is!
 
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jgr

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Mount Zion, in Jerusalem.
Jesus stands there as He selects the 144,000. Revelation 14:1

Maybe they did, they seem to have been quite confused about God Plans.
The OT is confirmed in the NT and we see the new Temple in 2 Thess 2:4 and Rev 11:1

Thats truth of who we Christians actually are; the Overcomers for God - His Israelite people.

The Jewish people face imminent Judgment/punishment. Only a remnant will survive. Isaiah 29:1-4, Isaiah 6:11-13, Romans 9:27
But the 10 Northern tribes have a different destiny, Jesus came to save them and He was successful.

Yes; The Apostles [and Josephus too] knew who and where the 10 tribes of the house of Israel lived then. They have since scatted around the world, but God knows them. Amos 9:8-9 The Church consists of the majority of them.

Messianic Jews, the few with a true faith in Jesus, do receive the benefits of Christianity.
Hebrews applied for the last nearly 2000 years. Soon to be superseded by a return to Temple worship and only a few years later, by the Return of Jesus to the earth.

Again; our situation during this Church age.
Make no mistake, the holy Land is special to God and He watches that area closely. Deuteronomy 11:11-12 His faithful people will inherit it: Psalms 69:32-26, Isaiah 65:9, Romans 9:24-26

Are you still a proponent of British Israelism, regarded by most Christians as a cult?
 
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keras

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Are you still a proponent of British Israelism, regarded by most Christians as a cult?
BI did have some things right. The original settlers of Britain were Israelites. That name proves it; brit = covenant, ish = people.
Unfortunately though, BI goes too far in their teachings about Anglo-Saxon superiority.

People who call BI a cult, don't bother to find out their actual beliefs and usually have another agenda to push, mainly that the Jews are still the Israel of God. They need this to make their fanciful dream of being 'raptured to heaven', while the Jews get tribulated.
 
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eclipsenow

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They need this to make their fanciful dream of being 'raptured to heaven', while the Jews get tribulated.
Except that according to Jesus and John we've BEEN in the tribulation for 2000 years!
But don't let that stop you.
Please explain your chart! Again!
Futurist prediction number 79,456.
Maybe this time this futurist will get it right - except he's gone and based his whole 'thang' on a call to repent (not a prediction!) and Jesus travel plans (not a prediction!) Oh well.
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keras

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eclipsenow, answer 3 questions please:
1/ Who are the Caucasian peoples today?
2/ Where did they originate from?
3/ Where did the Assyrians exile ancient Israel to?
Except that according to Jesus and John we've BEEN in the tribulation for 2000 years!
Not true. We are told there would be trials and testing thru persecution in this Church age.
This bears no relation to the Great Tribulation of the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls, so graphically described in Revelation, that will fall upon those who have taken the mark of the 'beast'; the Anti-Christ leader of the World Govt.
The faithful Christians will be kept in a place of safety for that 3 1/2 year period. Revelation 12:14

The Biblical sequence of time periods seems to be beyond your comprehension. Look at it again at #19, on my thread of the Day of the Lord is at Hand.
 
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eclipsenow

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eclipsenow, answer 3 questions please:
1/ Who are the Caucasian peoples today?
2/ Where did they originate from?
3/ Where did the Assyrians exile ancient Israel to?
I'm not going to debate the intricacies of history with someone that reads Hosea's call to repent and Jesus farewell song as future timetables! The best historical evidence is the first humans probably walked across there from Europe before it was cut off by rising sea levels at the end of the ice age.
Prehistoric Britain - Wikipedia
That's it - end of discussion - don't be a nutter!

Not true. We are told there would be trials and testing thru persecution in this Church age.
See, when John tells his generation that he shares in their tribulations - he really means it. According to Jesus and John we've BEEN in the tribulation for 2000 years! We really have! You need to learn to prioritise the clearer passages of scripture over the metaphorical.


This bears no relation to the Great Tribulation of the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls, so graphically described in Revelation, that will fall upon those who have taken the mark of the 'beast';
Blah blah blah.... interpreting the clearer parts of scripture with the highly symbolic and metaphorical again. So once AGAIN:

As Bishop Paul Barnett explains, the 1000 years we are in (long period of time between Jesus resurrection and return) have the following cycles described all in parallel - along side each other - not to be read sequentially like some sort of future timeline.
HUMAN HISTORY: THE 1000 YEARS:-
Seven seals depicting TYRANNY (then back to the beginning to describe)...
Seven trumpets depicting CHAOS in nature (then back to the beginning to describe)...
Seven signs depicting PERSECUTION (then back to the beginning to describe)...
Seven plagues depicting DESTRUCTION.
These episodes are concurrent, not consecutive.
 
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Davy

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It means he's referencing both!
It means he's saying what is coming will be like Antiochus - but worse.
This is not hard to comprehend.
It's like saying "When you see the Romans coming get out of dodge because it will be like the Hiroshima bombing!"

If that were a Sunday school class test, you would fail it because of bringing the Romans into it. The Romans did not do what Antiochus IV did per the "vile person" in Daniel 11 with placing an abomination idol inside the temple in Jerusalem.
 
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Davy

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But that's just not true. No-one can corrupt the final product - the perfected Bride of Christ - but that's in the future. Right now we have all manner of warnings in scripture to look out for antichrists (plural), false teachers, etc. Indeed, even Ephesians 2 shows the job is not finished yet.
....

Wrong again. Those who fall away from Christ, even today, are CUT OFF from the spiritual temple. If what you say were true, there wouldn't even be... a spiritual temple today! So your own words betray you.

And the rest of your post is just silliness, which is what you have come here to push.
 
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timothyu

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Those who fall away from Christ, even today, are CUT OFF from the spiritual temple.
Just as Adam and Eve were and everyone since who put their will ahead of the will of the Father. It is a simple process to rectify this on a personal level, but on a global scale it takes a plan God has put in motion to stamp out all, even one last renegade.
 
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Davy

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And there I was thinking the gospel saved us, not your specific end-times-schema.


Rubbish - you're on your high horse again. It's not our fault you can't read genres. Take Shakespeare's line "But soft, what light through yonder window breaks? It is the east, and Juliet is the sun."

You'd read it like - "See! Juliet is obviously a giant ball of fusing hydrogen millions and millions of miles across!"

What you're putting out is the real rubbish, from men, and not Truth in God's Word. You no doubt think that because you may have followers that think you know what you're talking about that you can just mouth without backing up what you say from God's Word. It's obvious why you can't use God's Word as written to back up what you say, because what you say doesn't come from God's Word!
 
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Davy

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Where in the temple will Lucifer sit?

On the front step?
In the back pew?
In the front pew?
On the altar?
On the pulpit?
Somewhere else?

Since Lucifer is a spirit being, how will anyone know where, or if, he is sitting?
....

Brethren, don't you just love these fakes that come here to mock The Word of God???

Matt 24:15-16
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
KJV

2 Thess 2:3-4
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

KJV

Rev 13:4-8
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
KJV


The Temple Vessels Are Ready for the Rebuilding of Jerusalem's Third Temple | Messianic Bible
 
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Davy

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Just as Adam and Eve were and everyone since who put their will ahead of the will of the Father. It is a simple process to rectify this on a personal level, but on a global scale it takes a plan God has put in motion to stamp out all, even one last renegade.

That still doesn't change the fact that Apostle Paul's declaration of the spiritual temple concept is for TODAY since Christ died on the cross.

Trying to push the concept to the very end when God has completely done away with all evil doesn't work, and to push that kind of idea just to try and save a false doctrine of men, well, that's even more ignorant.
 
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eclipsenow

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If that were a Sunday school class test, you would fail it because of bringing the Romans into it. The Romans did not do what Antiochus IV did per the "vile person" in Daniel 11 with placing an abomination idol inside the temple in Jerusalem.
Oh yes they did - read Josephus Book 6 Chapter 6
imperial-roman-eagle-aquila.jpg
 
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