LDS 3rd article of faith

[Yanni depp]

3rd article of faith:
We believe that through the Atonement of Christ,
All mankind may be saved,
by obedience to the laws
and ordinances of the Gospel.

2 nephi 25:23
for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.

This is a different gospel than in the Bible

Romans 3:28
For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.

Ephesians 3:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

In Galatians Paul tells how if we accept one portion of the law beyond faith in Jesus Christ, we are obligated to keep the whole of the Law.
Specifically here, accepting Jesus Christ and then being circumcised to be saved.

Galatians 5:4
You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.

Paul says any other gospel than the one they preached was anathema.

Ephesians 1:8
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Hi again, Yanni.

The 3rd Article of Faith is clarified by the 4th: "4 We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remissionof sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost." Articles of Faith 1

A person must have faith in Jesus Christ is order to be saved. Second, they must repent, etc. This does not contradict the Bible at all, as these same things are thoroughly documented therein.

Touching on the specific verses you mentioned:
Romans 3:28 is referring to the Law of Moses, which isn't what LDS are talking about. Rather we are talking about having faith, which actually affirms this verse.
Ephesians 3:8-9 LDS don't believe that anyone saves themselves, rather it is Christ that is doing the saving and offering us His great gift. We simply accept it. Again, no contradiction.
Galatians: again, we're talking about having faith, so actually affirming these verses.
Galatians 5:4 same as the Romans verse.

Here's some another great Bible verses:
John 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
John 3:3-5

 

[Yanni depp]

Hey, good to here from you again.

That doesnt clarify
"All mankind may be saved through obedience to the laws"

If we are saved by grace "after all we can do," that is distorting the true Gospel of Jesus Christ.

James 2 says faith is dead without works, that doesnt imply that works are helping one be saved, or that doing works makes ones faith alive, its just pointing out that works would be an organic result of true faith in the God of the Bible. Not a catalyst for faith by any means.

I would still maintain that it is a different gospel than preached in the Bible, just as the Jesus in mormonism is different
than the Jesus described in the Bible.

2 cor 11 warns against false christs.
Deut 13 warns also of prophets showing signs and wonders that are apparently true, yet telling people to follow a different god.

With Jesus being the brother of lucifer in mormonism, that is a false christ.

You were always very kind to me, Jane, thank you for that. Take care.

 

[Jane_Doe]

Hey, good to here from you again.

That doesnt clarify
"All mankind may be saved through obedience to the laws"

Correction: we are saved through the Atonement, as stated in the Article. We accept by the having faith, repenting, etc. This affirms teachings from the Bible. If you want a really good explanation of LDS theology on this:

I would still maintain that it is a different gospel than preached in the Bible, just as the Jesus in mormonism is different
than the Jesus described in the Bible.

2 cor 11 warns against false christs.
Deut 13 warns also of prophets showing signs and wonders that are apparently true, yet telling people to follow a different god.

With Jesus being the brother of lucifer in mormonism, that is a false christ.

If you want to do address and dispel any of those myths too, I'd be happy to oblige.

You were always very kind to me, Jane, thank you for that. Take care.

You're welcome. You take care as well.

 

[fatboys]

Correction: we are saved through the Atonement, as stated in the Article. We accept by the having faith, repenting, etc. This affirms teachings from the Bible. If you want a really good explanation of LDS theology on this:

If you want to do address and dispel any of those myths too, I'd be happy to oblige.

You're welcome. You take care as well.

That was a beautiful talk. Thank you

 

[fatboys]

The anti Mormons have done a good job of skewing our beliefs when it comes to works/obedience vs faith. They choose a couple of lines from a passage and neglect to give you the whole picture.

The "after all we can do" is coming from a man who lived before Jesus' atonement and is living the Law of Moses.

2 Nephi 25
23 For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.
24 And, notwithstanding we believe in Christ, we keep the law of Moses, and look forward with steadfastness unto Christ, until the law shall be fulfilled.
25 For, for this end was the law given; wherefore the law hath become dead unto us, and we are made alive in Christ because of our faith; yet we keep the law because of the commandments.
26 And we talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that our children may know to what source they may look for a remission of their sins.

He understood that the Law of Moses was a dead law and could not save him but they had been commanded to obey the law that was all they could do.

We have been commanded to be baptized but I could be baptized all day long and it would not save me or anyone else if the Lord our Savior had not died on the cross for us.

Honestly I was going to respond with the same approach but you always do such a great job. Thank you.

 

[Rescued One]

The anti Mormons have done a good job of skewing our beliefs when it comes to works/obedience vs faith. They choose a couple of lines from a passage and neglect to give you the whole picture.

The "after all we can do" is coming from a man who lived before Jesus' atonement and is living the Law of Moses.

2 Nephi 25
23 For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.
24 And, notwithstanding we believe in Christ, we keep the law of Moses, and look forward with steadfastness unto Christ, until the law shall be fulfilled.
25 For, for this end was the law given; wherefore the law hath become dead unto us, and we are made alive in Christ because of our faith; yet we keep the law because of the commandments.
26 And we talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that our children may know to what source they may look for a remission of their sins.

He understood that the Law of Moses was a dead law and could not save him but they had been commanded to obey the law that was all they could do.

We have been commanded to be baptized but I could be baptized all day long and it would not save me or anyone else if the Lord our Savior had not died on the cross for us.

"...can be saved by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel."

1. He commands us all to receive certain ordinances:
2. 1. We must be baptized.
3. 
   
4. 2. We must receive the laying on of hands to be confirmed a member of the Church of Jesus Christ and to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
   
   
5. 3. Brethren must receive the Melchizedek Priesthood and magnify their callings in the priesthood.
   
   
6. 4. We must receive the temple endowment.
   
   
7. 5. We must be married for eternity, either in this life or in the next.

1. 
   In addition to receiving the required ordinances, the Lord commands all of us to:
   1. Love God and our neighbors.
      
      
   2. Keep the commandments.
      
      
   3. Repent of our wrongdoings.
      
      
   4. Search out our kindred dead and receive the saving ordinances of the gospel for them.
      
      
   5. Attend our Church meetings as regularly as possible so we can renew our baptismal covenants by partaking of the sacrament.
      
      
   6. Love our family members and strengthen them in the ways of the Lord.
   7. Have family and individual prayers every day.
   8. Teach the gospel to others by word and example.
   9. 9.Study the scriptures.
   10. 10.Listen to and obey the inspired words of the prophets of the Lord.
   Finally, each of us needs to receive the Holy Ghost and learn to follow His direction in our individual lives.
2. • What happens when we have endured to the end in faithful discipleship to Christ?
   The Lord has said, “If you keep my commandments and endure to the end you shall have eternal life, which gift is the greatest of all the gifts of God” (D&C 14:7).
   Gospel Principles Chapter 47: Exaltation

Doctrine and Covenants Section 128
An epistle from Joseph Smith the Prophet to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, containing further directions on baptism for the dead, dated at Nauvoo, Illinois, September 6, 1842...

15 And now, my dearly beloved brethren and sisters, let me assure you that these are principles in relation to the dead and the living that cannot be lightly passed over, as pertaining to our salvation. For their salvation is necessary and essential to our salvation, as Paul says concerning the fathers—that they without us cannot be made perfect—neither can we without our dead be made perfect.

 

[Jane_Doe]

"...can be saved by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel."

1. He commands us all to receive certain ordinances:
2. 1. We must be baptized.
3. 
   
4. 2. We must receive the laying on of hands to be confirmed a member of the Church of Jesus Christ and to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
   
   
5. 3. Brethren must receive the Melchizedek Priesthood and magnify their callings in the priesthood.
   
   
6. 4. We must receive the temple endowment.
   
   
7. 5. We must be married for eternity, either in this life or in the next.

1. 
   In addition to receiving the required ordinances, the Lord commands all of us to:
   1. Love God and our neighbors.
      
      
   2. Keep the commandments.
      
      
   3. Repent of our wrongdoings.
      
      
   4. Search out our kindred dead and receive the saving ordinances of the gospel for them.
      
      
   5. Attend our Church meetings as regularly as possible so we can renew our baptismal covenants by partaking of the sacrament.
      
      
   6. Love our family members and strengthen them in the ways of the Lord.
   7. Have family and individual prayers every day.
   8. Teach the gospel to others by word and example.
   9. 9.Study the scriptures.
   10. 10.Listen to and obey the inspired words of the prophets of the Lord.
   Finally, each of us needs to receive the Holy Ghost and learn to follow His direction in our individual lives.
2. • What happens when we have endured to the end in faithful discipleship to Christ?
   The Lord has said, “If you keep my commandments and endure to the end you shall have eternal life, which gift is the greatest of all the gifts of God” (D&C 14:7).
   Gospel Principles Chapter 47: Exaltation

Doctrine and Covenants Section 128
An epistle from Joseph Smith the Prophet to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, containing further directions on baptism for the dead, dated at Nauvoo, Illinois, September 6, 1842...

15 And now, my dearly beloved brethren and sisters, let me assure you that these are principles in relation to the dead and the living that cannot be lightly passed over, as pertaining to our salvation. For their salvation is necessary and essential to our salvation, as Paul says concerning the fathers—that they without us cannot be made perfect—neither can we without our dead be made perfect.

All of these points have been addressed repeatedly already in this thread.

 

[withwonderingawe]

I could do all of my genealogy clear back to Adam but if I haven't bowed my knee to Christ asking forgiveness of my sins I could not be saved. In edition if I'm unwilling to forgive others the Lord will not forgive me I can faith to move mountains but if I have not charity I am still nothing.

 

[Rescued One]

I could do all of my genealogy clear back to Adam but if I haven't bowed my knee to Christ asking forgiveness of my sins I could not be saved. In edition if I'm unwilling to forgive others the Lord will not forgive me I can faith to move mountains but if I have not charity I am still nothing.

“Those who receive forgiveness and then repeat the sin are held accountable for their former sins.”
Gospel Principles, 1997, p.253

Doctrine and Covenants 82
7 And now, verily I say unto you, I, the Lord, will not lay any sin to your charge; go your ways and sin no more; but unto that soul who sinneth shall the former sins return, saith the Lord your God.

From a more recent edition of Gospel Principles:

To make our repentance complete we must keep the commandments of the Lord (see D&C 1:32). We are not fully repentant if we do not pay tithes or keep the Sabbath day holy or obey the Word of Wisdom. We are not repentant if we do not sustain the authorities of the Church and do not love the Lord and our fellowmen. If we do not pray and are unkind to others, we are surely not repentant. When we repent, our life changes.

President Kimball said: “First, one repents. Having gained that ground he then must live the commandments of the Lord to retain his vantage point. This is necessary to secure complete forgiveness” (Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Spencer W. Kimball, 43).
Gospel Principles, 2009, p. 111-112
Gospel Principles Chapter 19: Repentance

You're right. God doesn't want you to do endless genealogies, and get baptized umpteen million times. BTW, in Mormonism, genealogy won't give you Brownie points without doing the proxy ordinances.

“Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his
grace ye may be perfect in Christ; and if by the grace of God ye are perfect in Christ, ye can in nowise deny the power of God.”
Book of Mormon, Moroni 10:32

Please consider Jesus in these last days. His burden is light.

Hebrews 1
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

 

[withwonderingawe]

“Those who receive forgiveness and then repeat the sin are held accountable for their former sins.”
Gospel Principles, 1997, p.253

Matt 6
14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

That's in the Bible Phoebe

 

[Jane_Doe]

“Those who receive forgiveness and then repeat the sin are held accountable for their former sins.”
Gospel Principles, 1997, p.253

Doctrine and Covenants 82
7 And now, verily I say unto you, I, the Lord, will not lay any sin to your charge; go your ways and sin no more; but unto that soul who sinneth shall the former sins return, saith the Lord your God.

From a more recent edition of Gospel Principles:

To make our repentance complete we must keep the commandments of the Lord (see D&C 1:32). We are not fully repentant if we do not pay tithes or keep the Sabbath day holy or obey the Word of Wisdom. We are not repentant if we do not sustain the authorities of the Church and do not love the Lord and our fellowmen. If we do not pray and are unkind to others, we are surely not repentant. When we repent, our life changes.

President Kimball said: “First, one repents. Having gained that ground he then must live the commandments of the Lord to retain his vantage point. This is necessary to secure complete forgiveness” (Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Spencer W. Kimball, 43).
Gospel Principles, 2009, p. 111-112
Gospel Principles Chapter 19: Repentance

You're right. God doesn't want you to do endless genealogies, and get baptized umpteen million times. BTW, in Mormonism, genealogy won't give you Brownie points without doing the proxy ordinances.

“Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his
grace ye may be perfect in Christ; and if by the grace of God ye are perfect in Christ, ye can in nowise deny the power of God.”
Book of Mormon, Moroni 10:32

Aka: you don't get to take your sins to Heaven. That's totally Biblical.

Please consider Jesus in these last days. His burden is light.

Agreed: with Christ it is a light burden to surrender our sins and be reborn.

 

[withwonderingawe]

BTW, in Mormonism, genealogy won't give you Brownie points without doing the proxy ordinances.

Why don't you take the time to watch Br. Wilcox's video so you can come to know the real meaning of the grace Jesus offers us.

 

[Rescued One]

Matt 6
14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

That's in the Bible Phoebe

Surprise! I know my Bible. Matthew 6:14-15 was said to the disciples (they had been forgiven); it's called instruction in righteousness. Apart from Jesus we can do nothing.

Ephesians 4
32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

God has already forgiven the sheep. Now they are instructed to be kind and forgive others. Now tell me which of His sheep is not willing to forgive others. We love Him because He first loved us!

 

[fatboys]

Surprise! I know my Bible. Matthew 6:14-15 was said to the disciples (they had been forgiven); it's called instruction in righteousness. Apart from Jesus we can do nothing.

Ephesians 4
32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

God has already forgiven the sheep. Now they are instructed to be kind and forgive others. Now tell me which of His sheep is not willing to forgive others. We love Him because He first loved us!

Can I forgive someone that has not trespassed against me?

 

[Rescued One]

Can I forgive someone that has not trespassed against me?

You are going down a rabbit trail. Please stick to the topic.

 

[withwonderingawe]

Surprise! I know my Bible. Matthew 6:14-15 was said to the disciples (they had been forgiven); it's called instruction in righteousness. Apart from Jesus we can do nothing.

Ephesians 4
32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

God has already forgiven the sheep. Now they are instructed to be kind and forgive others. Now tell me which of His sheep is not willing to forgive others. We love Him because He first loved us!

Phoebe he knows who is forgiven and who is not that's not the issue, he wants you to learn how to forgive. If you can't then he won't forgive you. If you can't show mercy then he won't offer you mercy.
Read through Matt 18: 23-25

"32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant/the saved Christian, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:

33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?

34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.

35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

 

[Rescued One]

Phoebe he knows who is forgiven and who is not that's not the issue, he wants you to learn how to forgive. If you can't then he won't forgive you. If you can't show mercy then he won't offer you mercy.
Read through Matt 18: 23-25

"32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant/the saved Christian, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:

33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?

34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.

35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

We know how to forgive. We love Him and He helps us obey Him! It's non-Christians who don't forgive. The Christian who is slow to forgive WILL forgive. God even shows mercy to sinners. I'm not holding a grudge against anyone. I'm not a Mormon --- I accept His forgiveness. I don't have to EARN it.

 

[fatboys]

We know how to forgive. We love Him and He helps us obey Him! It's non-Christians who don't forgive. The Christian who is slow to forgive WILL forgive. God even shows mercy to sinners. I'm not holding a grudge against anyone. I'm not a Mormon --- I accept His forgiveness. I don't have to EARN it.

I have accepted Christ as my Savoir. I try and follow his teachings. I have forgiven those who have trespassed against me. I love not just my neighbors but my enemies as well. I do countless hours of service for my fellow mankind. Yet I'm not perfect and continue to work on being more than I as the day before. You believe I'm still going to hell. Why would I want your brand of Christianity? Why would I not condemn you for not following my beliefs but praise the good you do do? Because it is not my right to judge you. You do good works in the name of Christ. I can't find fault with that. What I can find fault with is your unnecessary attacks against what I believe to be the restored church of Jesus Christ. That is wrong and it is arrogance on many who do the same to think that your path has been interpreted correctly. Correctly even with the thousands of different thoughts of what is the truth. That's not of God.

 

[Rescued One]

You believe I'm still going to hell.

Either prove that or stop telling me what I believe.

What I can find fault with is your unnecessary attacks against what I believe to be the restored church of Jesus Christ.

You have the ability to embrace a religion that claims all non-Mormon religions are wrong. You have the ability to read and believe any criticism your leaders make against the teachings of non-Mormons. You have the ability to believe you're on the right path to eternal life.

That is wrong and it is arrogance on many who do the same to think that your path has been interpreted correctly. Correctly even with the thousands of different thoughts of what is the truth. That's not of God.

If my testimony is not of God, and you claim yours is, who is being arrogant and who is saying my posts are not of God?