30+ Bible verses that support universal salvation

[Saint Steven]

That passage was from Daniel, and was Hebrew, not Greek.

Dan 12:2 KJV 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame [and] everlasting contempt.​

That's interesting. Seems like Jesus was picking up an OT quote.

Saint Steven said: ↑
That was one of the first really big hurdles I had to get over on UR.
If the punishment isn't eternal, then neither is the life.
Fortunately one age follows another. So no biggie after all.

Matthew 25:46 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
46 And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'

 

[Der Alte]

...

Matthew 25:46 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
46 And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'

The UR so-called "scholars" have concocted a nonsensical term "age during" to make scripture fit their UR agenda. "Aionios" is an adjective the UR-ites changed the adjective into "age during." "Age" is a noun and "during" is a preposition. These are the hoops UR-ites jump through to make scripture fit their agenda. The only place "age during" can be found is in certain Bible translations, nowhere else.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

Nonsense. UR-ites cherry pick what they call "literal versions" but avoid the literal Jewish Publication Society OT, translated by native Hebrew speaking scholars and the Eastern Greek Orthodox Translated by native Greek speaking scholars. Because these two literal versions don't support the UR agenda.

Not nonsense. Good sense. For God is good.

Nonsense. Not one single verse says the lake of fire is for purification. Let us read the verse you quoted in-context.

Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Revelation 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death..….Rev 21:4 says “there shall be no more death” in vs. 5 Jesus said “Behold I make all things new.” “No more death” but 3 verses later Rev 21:8 says 8 groups of people “shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone: which is still the second death.”
Maybe the UR-ites got it right and Jesus got it wrong the 8 groups of people were thrown into the LOF before verse 4 then they were made new. Wonder which other verses we can switch around to make them say what we want them to?

That's right, no more death, everything will be made anew. That includes those in the lake of fire, of course. Or do you have some special meaning for 'everything'?

Matthew 5:44
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Luke 6:28
28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.

Well, there you go. And why should God be any different. He's gonna bless the reprobates into repentance.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

The UR so-called "scholars" have concocted a nonsensical term "age during" to make scripture fit their UR agenda. "Aionios" is an adjective the UR-ites changed the adjective into "age during." "Age" is a noun and "during" is a verb. These are the hoops UR-ites jump through to make scripture fit their agenda. The only place "age during" can be found is in certain Bible translations nowhere else.

I'm not a big fan of 'age-during'. But aionios is used to denote other things than just eternal. In this context it could just as readily be interpreted as 'otherworldly' or 'next-age'. See, for instance, Gal 1:4, this present evil age.

Even if it means eternal in Mt 25:46, I'm not at all worried that this displaces the masses of UR scriptures, including the great Universal Salvation Covenant as expressed in Isaiah 45:23, the universal dragnet promise in Jn 12:32 and the promise of universal immanent divinity in 1 Cor 15:28. You might not have faith in the total victory of Christ, der Alte, but we certainly do, by the grace of God.

 

[Gup20]

That's interesting. Seems like Jesus was picking up an OT quote.

Saint Steven said: ↑
That was one of the first really big hurdles I had to get over on UR.
If the punishment isn't eternal, then neither is the life.
Fortunately one age follows another. So no biggie after all.

Matthew 25:46 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)
46 And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'

It's telling when your position is that both the Greek and Hebrew are translated incorrectly in order to justify your position.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

It's telling when your position is that both the Greek and Hebrew are translated incorrectly in order to justify your position.

So are you saying 'contempt' and 'punishment' by roasting in a fire pit are the same?

 

[Saint Steven]

It's telling when your position is that both the Greek and Hebrew are translated incorrectly in order to justify your position.

Indeed.
The Damnationists translated (biased) the WHOLE Bible, not just the NT.

One of the most common biblical manuscripts used to make our modern English translations is known today as the Nestle Text. Yet it was Prof. Eberhard Nestle himself who warned us in his Einfhrung in die Textkritik des griechischen Testaments: "Learned men, so called Correctores were, following the church meeting at Nicea 325 AD, selected by the church authorities to scrutinize the sacred texts and rewrite them in order to correct their meaning in accordance with the views which the church had just sanctioned."

St. Jerome wrote: "They write down not what they find but what they think is the meaning; and while they attempt to rectify the errors of others, they merely expose their own" (Jerome, Epist. lxxi.5).

 

[Saint Steven]

The Damnationists will fight tooth and claw to preserve hell.
Hard to imagine what they find of value in it. Any rational mind would be happy to be rid of it if there was a way to do so. And there is. Anyone who hopes we are right can find their way to the answers. But it requires some hard work. As I full well know.

Only God and his attributes are eternal.

His mercy endures forever. Ps.118, Ps.136
His loving kindness is everlasting. Ps.118, Ps.136
Mercy triumphs over judgment. James 2:13

1 Timothy 1:17
Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God,
be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

It boggles the mind. Original sin was manifested in disobedience to God, born of a failure of the human heart and a breach of trust/ faith. But God is first and foremost absolutely trustworthy and true, always worthy of our trust despite the fact we may be unworthy of His.

So a deity who presents as the ultimate loving father, yet kills his naughty kids en masse in the basement - how can that be trustworthy? It's a source of terror, creeping paranoia and resentment, surely. Makes you wonder whether what calls itself Christianity (due to the twisted doctrines of salvation and destiny) is really just a mad pharisees' picnic.

God is so good that He saves us despite ourselves. Revealed in Jesus is His covenant assurance that He'll pursue us even through hell and death to redeem us, that no force can withstand His burning love. Death is swallowed up in victory!

 

[Gup20]

Indeed.
The Damnationists translated (biased) the WHOLE Bible, not just the NT.

One of the most common biblical manuscripts used to make our modern English translations is known today as the Nestle Text. Yet it was Prof. Eberhard Nestle himself who warned us in his Einfhrung in die Textkritik des griechischen Testaments: "Learned men, so called Correctores were, following the church meeting at Nicea 325 AD, selected by the church authorities to scrutinize the sacred texts and rewrite them in order to correct their meaning in accordance with the views which the church had just sanctioned."

St. Jerome wrote: "They write down not what they find but what they think is the meaning; and while they attempt to rectify the errors of others, they merely expose their own" (Jerome, Epist. lxxi.5).

In 1898 Eberhard Nestle published the first edition of his Novum Testamentum Graece. The King James version of the Bible predates that. Further, the passage in Daniel is in Hebrew, not Greek, so the Neslte Text has no relevance.

[Mat 25:46 KJV] 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
[Dan 12:2 KJV] 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame [and] everlasting contempt.

The Hebrew word owlam עוֹלָם is what is used in Daniel 12:2. Further, the balance and contrast between "everlasting life" and "everlasting punishment" is a clue to it's intended meaning. For the way you apply everlasting to one must be equally applied to the other. If punishment isn't everlasting, than neither is life.

The Hebrew word owlam is used in other places:

[Gen 17:7, 19 NASB] 7 "I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your descendants after you. ... 19 But God said, "No, but Sarah your wife will bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac; and I will establish My covenant with him for an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him.

[Gen 21:33 NASB] 33 [Abraham] planted a tamarisk tree at Beersheba, and there he called on the name of the LORD, the Everlasting God.

[Exo 3:15 NASB] 15 God, furthermore, said to Moses, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, 'The LORD, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is My memorial-name to all generations.

[Exo 15:18 NASB] 18 "The LORD shall reign forever and ever."​

If owlam doesn't actually mean everlasting or eternal, then you must change it's meaning in these verses as well.

[Gen 17:7, 19 YLT] 7 'And I have established My covenant between Me and thee, and thy seed after thee, to their generations, for a covenant age-during, to become God to thee, and to thy seed after thee; ... 19 and God saith, 'Sarah thy wife is certainly bearing a son to thee, and thou hast called his name Isaac, and I have established My covenant with him, for a covenant age-during, to his seed after him.

[Gen 21:33 YLT] 33 and [Abraham] planteth a tamarask in Beer-Sheba, and preacheth there in the name of Jehovah, God age-during;

[Exo 3:15 YLT] 15 And God saith again unto Moses, `Thus dost thou say unto the sons of Israel, Jehovah, God of your fathers, God of Abraham, God of Isaac, and God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you; this [is] My name -- to the age, and this My memorial, to generation -- generation.

[Exo 15:18 YLT] 18 Jehovah reigneth -- to the age, and for ever!'​

Careful... Genesis 17:7 is the covenant of faith in the gospel of Jesus Christ (Gal 3:8, 16). Change the meaning of that, and you have changed salvation by grace through faith from eternal to temporary. Are you prepared to be consistent with your translation?

 

[Gup20]

So are you saying 'contempt' and 'punishment' by roasting in a fire pit are the same?

Are you saying "contempt" and "grace" are the same?

 

[Gup20]

It boggles the mind. Original sin was manifested in disobedience to God, born of a failure of the human heart and a breach of trust/ faith. But God is first and foremost absolutely trustworthy and true, always worthy of our trust despite the fact we may be unworthy of His.

So a deity who presents as the ultimate loving father, yet kills his naughty kids en masse in the basement - how can that be trustworthy? It's a source of terror, creeping paranoia and resentment, surely. Makes you wonder whether what calls itself Christianity (due to the twisted doctrines of salvation and destiny) is really just a mad pharisees' picnic.

God is so good that He saves us despite ourselves. Revealed in Jesus is His covenant assurance that He'll pursue us even through hell and death to redeem us, that no force can withstand His burning love. Death is swallowed up in victory!

I use this example:

Take the act of killing a living creature. If you kill an ant, this is no great sin. But if you kill a family's beloved pet dog, is this the same or worse than killing the ant? And if you kill a human being, is this the same or worse than killing the dog? See how the same action, killing a living creature, varies in severity of evil based upon whom it's perpetrated against? Sin is an offense against God. God is infinite. Therefore sinning against Him is infinite. Is it because of the objective nature of the action itself? No. It is because of the nature of God. An infinitely evil action deserves justice. The only justice for an infinitely evil action is an infinite justice. This is becasue of WHO God is, not because of the action itself. Your justification is based on the actions themselves in relativity to humanity... but God's perspective is the actions in relativity to Him and His infinite nature.... and His commandment not to sin. If we expect Heaven to be a good place, free from sin and death, then it must be free from sinners and infinitely evil actors. It is an act of infinite grace and mercy that some are saved, but if all were saved it wouldn't be mercy, but negligence of justice.

Allowing evil and sin to continue in a perfect would would not be loving to those who live in that perfect world, but an eternal affliction. Universalism is a form eternal torture, but rather than torturing the evil people, God eternally afflicts the good people. That doesn't seem loving at all.

 

[Saint Steven]

It boggles the mind. Original sin was manifested in disobedience to God, born of a failure of the human heart and a breach of trust/ faith. But God is first and foremost absolutely trustworthy and true, always worthy of our trust despite the fact we may be unworthy of His.

I find that whole situation in the Garden quite curious.
It seems that humankind did not commit the original sin as a matter of malice and forethought. Though we as the fallen race of humankind would have done so. But Adam and Eve had to be swindled into making the mistake that counted as sin against them and against all of humanity. (something that wasn't mentioned in the consequences)

Even though the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil was planted in the center of the Garden where it could not be avoided, humankind had not yet been tempted to eat thereof. Enter the Serpent salesman, who begins by discrediting his competitor for supposed false advertising. Probably touching the fruit to prove that death was not the result of such. Once Eve was sold on the product she wanted to "sample" it. Alas, no "free" samples today. (that will cost you) Seemed okay so she offered some to her on-looking husband. Seemingly still in her right mind.

Adam took one bite and everything went sideways. Suddenly there was an accusing voice in their heads that sent them scurrying to cover up and hide. As God told Cain, sin is crouching at the door. It wants to have you, but you must rule over it.

Anyway...

 

[Saint Steven]

Universalism is a form eternal torture, but rather than torturing the evil people, God eternally afflicts the good people. That doesn't seem loving at all.

Wow. That is a COMPLETE misunderstanding of UR.
Bad continues for all eternity in a forever burning hell.
Bad is dealt with permanently in UR. There will be no "bad" people in heaven.

When a person is released from prison, they paid their debt to society for their wrong.
But since humanity refuses to forgive them, they typically have no choice but to return to their previous life of crime. So, who is the REAL bad person in this situation? The one who paid their debt to society, or the one who refuses to welcome them back into society?

 

[Shrewd Manager]

Are you saying "contempt" and "grace" are the same?

Contempt is equated to shame, which is the result of having your bow broken in the Valley of Jezreel, that moment your unbelief is overcome by amazing grace.

Isaiah is instructive:

Though the wicked is shown favor, He does not learn righteousness; He deals unjustly in the land of uprightness, And does not perceive the majesty of the LORD. O LORD, Your hand is lifted up yet they do not see it. They see Your zeal for the people and are put to shame; Indeed, fire will devour Your enemies. (Isa 26:10-11)

Plunging on to Isa 45:22-25:

Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other.
By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked: Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear. They will say of me, ‘In the LORD alone are deliverance and strength.’ ” All who have raged against him will come to him and be put to shame. But all the descendants of Israel will find deliverance in the LORD and will make their boast in him.

Then we trace to Rev 15:3-4:

And they sang the song of Moses, the bond-servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, "Great and marvelous are Your works, O Lord God, the Almighty; Righteous and true are Your ways, King of the nations! "Who will not fear, O Lord, and glorify Your name? For You alone are holy; For ALL THE NATIONS WILL COME AND WORSHIP BEFORE YOU, FOR YOUR RIGHTEOUS ACTS HAVE BEEN REVEALED."

And of course, after they're 'devoured by fire' in Revelation 20:9, the nations return to worship God in Revelation 21:24-26 and receive healing in Revelation 22:2.

So yes, contempt for the old man, the sinner who didn't believe God would or could save everyone, arises when the revelation of the divine fire of zealous righteous grace transforms all creatures. 'Behold, I am making all things anew' (Rev 21:5).

 

[Saint Steven]

In 1898 Eberhard Nestle published the first edition of his Novum Testamentum Graece. The King James version of the Bible predates that. Further, the passage in Daniel is in Hebrew, not Greek, so the Neslte Text has no relevance.

Nestle's comment was about what happened PRIOR to the Nestle text.
As is the comment from St. Jerome.

One of the most common biblical manuscripts used to make our modern English translations is known today as the Nestle Text. Yet it was Prof. Eberhard Nestle himself who warned us in his Einfhrung in die Textkritik des griechischen Testaments: "Learned men, so called Correctores were, following the church meeting at Nicea 325 AD, selected by the church authorities to scrutinize the sacred texts and rewrite them in order to correct their meaning in accordance with the views which the church had just sanctioned."

St. Jerome wrote: "They write down not what they find but what they think is the meaning; and while they attempt to rectify the errors of others, they merely expose their own" (Jerome, Epist. lxxi.5).

 

[Shrewd Manager]

I find that whole situation in the Garden quite curious.
It seems that humankind did not commit the original sin as a matter of malice and forethought. Though we as the fallen race of humankind would have done so. But Adam and Eve had to be swindled into making the mistake that counted as sin against them and against all of humanity. (something that wasn't mentioned in the consequences)

Even though the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil was planted in the center of the Garden where it could not be avoided, humankind had not yet been tempted to eat thereof. Enter the Serpent salesman, who begins by discrediting his competitor for supposed false advertising. Probably touching the fruit to prove that death was not the result of such. Once Eve was sold on the product she wanted to "sample" it. Alas, no "free" samples today. (that will cost you) Seemed okay so she offered some to her on-looking husband. Seemingly still in her right mind.

Adam took one bite and everything went sideways. Suddenly there was an accusing voice in their heads that sent them scurrying to cover up and hide. As God told Cain, sin is crouching at the door. It wants to have you, but you must rule over it.

Anyway...

It's certainly a puzzling account in some ways.

 

[Saint Steven]

Careful... Genesis 17:7 is the covenant of faith in the gospel of Jesus Christ (Gal 3:8, 16). Change the meaning of that, and you have changed salvation by grace through faith from eternal to temporary. Are you prepared to be consistent with your translation?

This was my original point to you. The first BIG hurdle I had to get over.
If the punishment isn't "eternal", then neither is the "life".
Fortunately, one age follows the previous one. And we'll all be ready for something new.

 

[Der Alte]

Not nonsense. Good sense. For God is good.

Ignores or reinterprets scripture that does not fit the UR agenda.

That's right, no more death, everything will be made anew. That includes those in the lake of fire, of course. Or do you have some special meaning for 'everything'?

So Jesus got it wrong and UR-ites got it right by disregarding/rearranging the scripture? Please pay attention to the context.

Revelation 21:4-8
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.​

If UR-ites are wrong and Jesus got it right here is what will happen

Revelation 21:4-8
4 ...there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away....
8 BUT the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.​

BUT, as it clearly states, vs. 8 is excluded from everything previous.

Well, there you go. And why should God be any different. He's gonna bless the reprobates into repentance.

But you and all the other UR-ites cannot provide even one verse which clearly, unequivocally states that the unrepentant unrighteous in the LOF will be saved.

 

[Der Alte]

I'm not a big fan of 'age-during'. But aionios is used to denote other things than just eternal. In this context it could just as readily be interpreted as 'otherworldly' or 'next-age'. See, for instance, Gal 1:4, this present evil age.
Even if it means eternal in Mt 25:46, I'm not at all worried that this displaces the masses of UR scriptures, including the great Universal Salvation Covenant as expressed in Isaiah 45:23, the universal dragnet promise in Jn 12:32 and the promise of universal immanent divinity in 1 Cor 15:28. You might not have faith in the total victory of Christ, der Alte, but we certainly do, by the grace of God.

Surely all the UR "scholars" can come up with an English adjective which corresponds to "aionios?"
And you uncritically follow all the UR "scholars" down that crooked road. "Here is one verse where "aionios" cannot mean eternal so it must always mean something else. I know we'll call it age-during." Although "age during" is not an adjective it is a noun and a preposition.
Have you ever done your own study of the word "aionios" or any other word? Or do you just uncritically accept whatever UR "scholars" say words mean?
I have researched every occurrence of "aionios" in the NT
"Aionios" occurs 72x in the NT
"Aionios" is translated world 5x
"Aionios" is translated eternal 42x
"Aionios" is translated everlasting 25x
Paul used "aionios" 23x
In Paul's writings "aionios" is translated world 3x.
So Paul used "aionios" for eternal/everlasting 20x
Jesus used "aionios" 28x. Jesus never used "aionios" for anything ordinary or mundane which was not /cannot be "eternal."
So what does the majority of uses of "aionios" tell us about the meaning?