• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.

Featured 30+ Bible verses that support universal salvation

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Jord Simcha, Jul 10, 2020.

  1. Der Alte

    Der Alte This is me about 1 yr. old. Supporter

    +3,505
    United States
    Baptist
    Married
    US-Others
    This is the big lie that UR gurus teach their followers. Thus they claim that any version which appears to support UR is "literal" any version which does not they claim is "biased."
    …..Greek is now, and has always been, the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church. Who, better than the native Greek speaking scholars who translated the “literal” Greek Eastern Orthodox Bible [EOB], know the correct meaning of Greek words, e.g. “Gehenna,””aiōnios,”“kolasis” etc?
    EOB, footnote pg. 180

    “Hades is the realm of the dead. The upper part of hades was considered to be luminous and it was called “paradise” or "Abraham's bosom.” Hades is not to be confused with hell (Gehenna) which is the final place of state or place of the damned (“the lake of’ fire”).”
    = = = = = = = = = =
    The Eastern Greek Orthodox Bible EOB—New Testament 96

    Matthew 25:46 Then he will answer them saying ‘Amen. I tell you: as much as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.' “These [[ones on the left]] will go away into eternal punishment.[κολασιν αιονιον/kolasin aiōnion] but the righteous into eternal life.
    = = = = = = = = = =
    KJV Romans 16:26 [EOB 14:25]
    26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting [αιωνιου/aiōniou] God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
    Paul, the same writer, in the same writing book of Romans, uses αιωνιου/aiōniou, in Rom 16:26 synonymous with αιδιος/aidios in Rom 1:20, below. This shows conclusively that “aionios” means “eternal/everlsasting.” Scholars unanimously agree that “aidios” means “eternal/everlasting.”
    Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world, his invisible things are clearly seen. They perceived through created things, even his everlasting [τε αιδιος/te aidios] power and divinity.
    = = = = = = = =
    https://azbyka.ru/otechnik/books/or...tament-(The-Eastern-Greek-Orthodox-Bible).pdf
    The Eastern/Greek Orthodox Bible EOB—New Testament 96 can be viewed or D/L at the link above. Whoever has doubts/questions about the EOB version please read the 200 page preface which documents the extensive Greek scholarship supporting this translation.
    = = = = = = = = = =
    …..Jesus used the word “aiōnios” 28 times, He never used “αἰώνιος/aiōnios” to refer to something ordinary or mundane which was not/cannot be eternal.
    In the following 10 verses, Jesus, intentionally or not, defined/described “αἰώνιος/aiōnios” as “eternal” and “αἰών/aiōn” as “eternity.”

    [1]John 6:58
    (58) This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your ancestors ate manna and died, but whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.[αἰώνιος/aiōnios]
    In this verse Jesus contrasts “aiōnios life” with “death.” If “live aiōnios” is living only a finite period, that is not opposite “death.” Thus “aiōnios” by definition here means “eternal.”
    [2-3]John 10:28-29
    (28) I give them eternal [αἰώνιος/aiōnios] life, and they shall never [ου μη/ou mé] [αἰών/aiōn] perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

    (29) My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand.
    ou mé, vs. 28, signifies “in nowise,””by no means,””never,” [fn] below. In these two verses Jesus defines both “aiōnios” and “aiōn” as “eternal” with these three phrases, “[not] snatch them out of my hand,” “never perish,” and “no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand.” If “aion/aiōnios” means “age(s), a finite period,” that is not the opposite of “never perish,[not] snatch them out of my hand/the father’s hand.”
    [4-5]John 3:15-16
    (15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal [αιωνιον] life.
    (16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting [αιωνιον] life.
    In these two verses Jesus pairs “aiōnion” with “should not perish,” twice. Believers could eventually perish in a finite period, thus by definition “aiōnion life” here means eternal/everlasting life.
    [6]John 5:24
    (24) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting [αἰώνιος] life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
    In this verse Jesus defines “aiōnios” as “eternal” with the phrases “shall not come into condemnation” and “passed from death unto life.” “Aiōnios” does not mean “a finite period,” by definition here it means “eternal,” unless at some point, Jesus lets His followers come into condemnation and pass into death.
    [7]John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting [αἰώνιος/aiōnios] life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
    In this verse Jesus contrasts “aiōnios life” with “shall not see life.” If aiōnios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “shall not see life” By definition here aiōnios means eternal.
    [8]EOB John 4:14 But whoever drinks of the water that I will give him will never [ ου μη/ou mé] be thirsty again. Not only this, the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal [αἰώνιος/aiōnios] life.”
    Cleenewerck, L. (Ed.). (2011). The Easter/Greek Orthodox Bible:New Testament. (Jn 4:13–14). Laurent A. Cleenewerck.
    In this verse Jesus contrasts aiōnios with “shall never ου μη/ou mé thirst.” ου μη/ou mé means “in nowise, by no means,” [fn below] Aiōnios cannot mean an indefinite age that is not opposite “shall never thirst.” By definition aiōnios here means eternal.
    [9]John 6:27
    (27) Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting [αἰώνιος/aiōnios] life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
    In this verse Jesus contrasts “aiōnios meat” with “meat that perishes.” If aiōnios means an indefinite age that is not opposite “meat that perishes.” By definition aiōnios means eternal.
    [10]John 8:51
    (51) [αμην αμην/amen amen], I tell you; whoever keeps my word will never [ου μη εις τον αιωνα/ou mé eis ton aiōna] see death.”[1]Very truly I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never [ου μη εις τον αιωνα/ou mé eis ton aiōna][fn] see death."
    Cleenewerck, L. (Ed.). (2011). The Easter/Greek Orthodox Bible:New Testament.
    [fn]● The double negative [ου μη/ou mé] signifies in nowise, by no means. Θεωρήσῃ[theōrésé], denoting steady, protracted vision, is purposely used, because the promise contemplates the entire course of the believer's life in Christ. It is not, shall not die forever, but shall live eternally.
    Word Studies in the New Testament, Marvin Vincent.
    ● ④οὐ marker of reinforced negation, in combination w. μή, οὐ μή has the effect of strengthening the negation (Kühner-G. II 221–23; Schwyzer II 317; Mlt. 187–92 [a thorough treatment of NT usage]; B-D-F §365; RLudwig: D. prophet. Wort 31 ’37, 272–79; JLee, NovT 27, ’85, 18–23; B-D-F §365.—Pla., Hdt. et al. [Kühner-G. loc. cit.]; SIG 1042, 16; POxy 119, 5, 14f; 903, 16; PGM 5, 279; 13, 321; LXX; TestAbr A 8 p. 85, 11 [Stone p. 46]; JosAs 20:3; GrBar 1:7; ApcEsdr 2:7; Just., D. 141, 2). οὐ μή is the most decisive way of negativing something in the future.

    Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., Bauer, W., & Gingrich, F. W. (2000)A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian Literature.(3rd Ed). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.
    ● The combinations with οὐ μή also be noticed as, ουδεν οὐ μή (Lu. 10:19); οὐ μή σε άνο ουδ ου σε εγκαταιπο (Heb. 13:5); ουκετι οὐ μή (Rev. 18:14). There is no denying the power of this accumulation of negatives. Cf. the English hymn "I'll never, no never, no never forsake."
    Grammar Of The Greek New Testament In The Light Of Historical Research
    By A. T. Robertson, M.A., D.D., Ll.D., Litt.D. p.1165.





     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2020
  2. Kenny'sID

    Kenny'sID Well-Known Member Supporter

    +6,377
    Christian
    Single
    It's a twisted version of the bible....a bogus explanation of the truth.
     
  3. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

    +3,986
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Yeah well Caiaphas did the same but never converted so evidently what happened with Paul doesn’t happen with everyone. And I think it’s interesting that the scriptures say it would’ve been better for Judas if he had never been born. Now if he were to burn in hell for all eternity then that would make sense but if he would only burn for a little while but eventually receive eternal life in heaven then that wouldn’t make sense since temporary suffering cannot compare you eternity in paradise. So you see the scriptures have no happy ending for Judas even tho he followed Jesus for three years. So again Paul’s situation doesn’t apply to everyone.
     
  4. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

    +3,986
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    That reference of restoring the whole of creation could be referring to the new Earth. It doesn’t necessarily encompass all of mankind.
     
  5. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

    +3,986
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Amen, for some reason it’s only when referring to punishment that universalists object to it meaning eternal or everlasting. Any other time it’s mentioned in the scriptures they seem to accept it’s meaning.
     
  6. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

    +5,239
    Non-Denom
    Yup!

    It is called ephphatha.
     
  7. Jord Simcha

    Jord Simcha Active Member

    457
    +516
    Netherlands
    Christian
    Single
    That's only because eternal punishment doesn't fit the narrative of the rest of the Word of God. As can be read in the OP. That's why we dare to doubt the translation of aionios into eternal is the right interpretation here.
     
  8. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

    +5,239
    Non-Denom
    What the followers of the Father object to is NOT punishment, but punishment by a Loving Father that is an end in itself, rather than one of change & transformation at the conclusion!
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2020
  9. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

    +3,986
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    So then back to my original statement,



    So I don’t understand what your post has to do with anything in the discussion or how it was of any benefit at all. What was the point of mentioning Paul if his situation doesn’t apply to everyone? It seemed as though you were using Paul as an example of how God influences people to repent but if this doesn’t apply to everyone then it doesn’t help your case for universalism.
     
  10. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

    +5,239
    Non-Denom
    It does apply to every lost sinner! Every person who has never faced a burning bush experience, or at a minimum, an awakening to God, continues to be broken, bruised and at odds with the Father!

    But God
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2020
  11. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

    +5,752
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Is that what the narrow way scripture says? That they don't want to?
     
  12. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

    +3,986
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    I wouldn’t say everyone who has been awaken by God continues to be at odds with Him. Sure everyone will stumble from time to time but I don’t think that anyone who is in Christ Jesus remains at odds with The Father.
     
  13. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

    +3,986
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Well it’s what Jesus said in Revelation 2:20-21 and it’s also what Paul said in Romans 2:4-5.

    “But I have this against you, that you tolerate the woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, and she teaches and leads My bond-servants astray so that they commit acts of immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. I gave her time to repent, and she does not want to repent of her immorality.”
    ‭‭Revelation‬ ‭2:20-21‬ ‭NASB‬‬


    “Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,”
    ‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:4-5‬ ‭NASB‬‬
     
  14. Saint Steven

    Saint Steven You can call me Steve Supporter

    +5,752
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    Translation: It's not what the narrow way scripture says. Thank you.

    Saint Steven said:
    Is that what the narrow way scripture says? That they don't want to?
     
  15. Jord Simcha

    Jord Simcha Active Member

    457
    +516
    Netherlands
    Christian
    Single
    I agree with this. Actually the opposite is true in my opinon, because in Luke it says: Many will try to enter (so they want to), but shall not be able.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  16. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

    +5,239
    Non-Denom
    The ongoing process of union with the Living God leads to at-one-ment in the Name of all names.

    The key is that abiding in God is not by our strength but His, who live by the faith of the Son of God.

    Exchange your faith for His!
     
  17. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

    +3,986
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    I still don’t get it but what does the “narrow way” scripture say? I don’t see any contradictions with what I said in that passage.
     
  18. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

    +3,986
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Then why did Jesus tell His 11 faithful apostles to abide in Him, then he told them why they must abide in Him, then He told them the consequences of failing to abide in Him, then He told them what they can expect IF they abide in Him. Why would He say all this if they had no control over it?


    “"I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit. You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.”
    ‭‭John‬ ‭15:1-7‬ ‭NASB‬‬
     
  19. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

    +3,986
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Of course, why do you think every knee will bend and every tongue confess? The majority of them are trying to enter through the wide gate. The false prophets in Matthew 7:21-24 and the goats in Matthew 25:31-46 are also trying to enter the wide gate. I never said people get into heaven because they want to. I said the reason people don’t repent is because they don’t want to. That’s why I couldn’t figure out what Steve was referring to.
     
  20. FineLinen

    FineLinen Senior Veteran Supporter

    +5,239
    Non-Denom
    Abiding in the Master of Reconciliiation is a present tense operation of Spirit. The purpose of that union with Him is more of Him (and less of you/us). Each individual as a wee will can dig in their wee feet and say no. In the end however, the Master accomplishes His will in every digit, of every life, to whom the Father gives Him.

    "These are they who follow the Lamb withersoever He goes."
     
Loading...