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2Cor3:7-11 Tells us the 10 C's Were Only Temporary

Bob S

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The 10 Commandments, Israel's guide came with Glory, but they became the ministry that brought death. The keeping of the 10 Commandments were supposed to bring God's chosen happiness and the promised land soon faded and became only temporary after the Stones were presented to the children of Israel by Moses from God at Sinai.

God did not give up on mankind, He presented to all mankind the ministry of the Spirit which is much more glorious because it brings righteousness! What was glorious doesn't have any glory now in comparison with the glory of the Holy Spirit. The 10 Commandments came with glory, but were only temporary. The guidance of the Holy Spirit will last forever!

The Greater Glory of the New Covenant
7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was transitory came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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You seemed to have forgotten this Command from Christ...

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

If it's all the same, I'll take my orders from Jesus, you can interpret Paul however you wish.
 
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Bob S

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You seemed to have forgotten this Command from Christ...

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

If it's all the same, I'll take my orders from Jesus, you can interpret Paul however you wish.
Sorry brother, I think you forgot that there is no "10" in front of commandments. His commandment is to love God and love our fellow man as Jesus loves us. Sorry to break your bubble about the "10".
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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Sorry brother, I think you forgot that there is no "10" in front of commandments. His commandment is to love God and love our fellow man as Jesus loves us. Sorry to break your bubble about the "10".
Look at how the OT summarizes the Commandments given at Sinai...

Deuteronomy 6:5
And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Lev 19:18
...but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself:

Where do you think the NT writers were quoting from... there's nothing new under the sun my friend... choose the plain words of Christ and not you interpretation of Paul's words. Do not say in that day "Lord, did I not do all I understood Paul to say?"
 
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Bob S

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Look at how the OT summarizes the Commandments given at Sinai...

Deuteronomy 6:5
And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Lev 19:18
...but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself:

Where do you think the NT writers were quoting from... there's nothing new under the sun my friend... choose the plain words of Christ and not you interpretation of Paul's words. Do not say in that day "Lord, did I not do all I understood Paul to say?"
No "interpretation my friend, just plain scripture that tells us the 10 were temporary laws and now the Holy spirit is our guide.

Okay, you tell me I am reading it wrong and Paul really didn't write what I copied. Olease step up to the plate and hit a home run with your thoughts on the subject.

Oh yes, I have to disagree. Without the 10 we are to love our Creator with all our heart and our soul. There is nothing in the 10 commandments about loving God or others. Think about it, the love commands came along in the book of the law.

Was Jesus just blowing in the wind when He gave us the greatest command ever given in all scripture. How could you possibly write what you just did??????
 
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Bob S

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It seems to me it is "sickening" to you because of your rebellious heart... carnal humans don't like being told what not to do. Guess what, in Heaven, it won't be a free for all, do as I please experience. We will be constrained in God's Love for us and ours for Him.

As it foretells in Isaiah, we will be coming together to worship every Sabbath on the new earth. Are you thinking you will be OK with that then when you abhor the requirement now?
Are you also Okay with going out among the dead bodies decaying and the worms processing those bodies? 24 “And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.”

Are you okay with living in Heaven for over a hundred years Is 65:17 “See, I will create
new heavens and a new earth.
The former things will not be remembered,
(The problem is that in verse 66 we are supposed to go out and walk among the dead bodies of the past. To me that is remembering.)

“Never again will there be in it
an infant who lives but a few days,
or an old man who does not live out his years;
the one who dies at a hundred
will be thought a mere child;
the one who fails to reach a hundred
will be considered accursed.
Is65 Speaking of the new Heaven and new Earth.

I would have to say that you didn't choose a very good source for what we will be doing in Heaven. Your verse coupled with the entire thought only brings great confusion. Ah but this is the Adventist way. I should know.
 
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Bob S

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How about telling us what 2Cor3:7-11 means East Coast. You have told the World that I am wrong in my interpretation, but will not step up to the plate and refute me with the proper interpretation. How many times do I have to ask before you will answer?
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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Read the entire chapter...It shows that the Law that was glorious was made more glorious because of the Spirit writing it on our hearts, not replaced but enhanced.... the words of Moses were done away but not the Words from God. Remember, Moses didn't produce the Commandments, only the statutes and ordinances.
 
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bugkiller

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You seemed to have forgotten this Command from Christ...

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

If it's all the same, I'll take my orders from Jesus, you can interpret Paul however you wish.
No we have not forgotten that verse, but you seem to dislike 15:10 for some reason.

bugkiller
 
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bugkiller

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Is that's why Lev 19 lists the Commandments and then states that it is about loving our neighbour?? Read you Bible Bob...


He was, as He most often did, quoting OT scripture... remember He said that upon these two hang all the Law and prophets. They were the summation of the Decalogue... even Jesus gave testimony that the Commandments written on stone were premised on love, why won't you accept it?
The law is obligation and not love. Deut 28 proves this point.

bugkiller
 
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Bob S

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Read the entire chapter...It shows that the Law that was glorious was made more glorious because of the Spirit writing it on our hearts, not replaced but enhanced.... the words of Moses were done away but not the Words from God. Remember, Moses didn't produce the Commandments, only the statutes and ordinances.
Sorry those verses are not in my Bible. Could you please use scripture to back up your claim.
 
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LovebirdsFlying

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Ladies and gentlemen, if you disagree, please do so respectfully without getting personal. This thread has undergone a cleanup. Please remember the CF rules:

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Bob S

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Read the entire chapter...It shows that the Law that was glorious was made more glorious because of the Spirit writing it on our hearts, not replaced but enhanced.... the words of Moses were done away but not the Words from God. Remember, Moses didn't produce the Commandments, only the statutes and ordinances.
Sorry once again ECR. Moses didn't "produce" the the statutes and ordinances either, God did and Moses wrote God's words on parchment. They are God's word just as the ones God wrote with His finger in stone. Statutes and ordinances you will admit was temporary and the 10 you have twisted into something unidentifiable.

Because the 10 commandments were temporary laws that ended at the Cross along with God's other laws that were given to a now defunct Israel the SDA church does not have one thread to stand on when they tell us we have to observe the Sabbath in order to gain salvation. If and when you will admit to the truth about 2Cor3 You will see why so many are leaving what they once thought was the way. There are many more texts that also prove SDAs and others are not teaching the real truth, but it appears the SDAs are the only ones that stipulate the salvation issue.

Saturday is as good as any other day to come together in corporate worship. As Christians we are free from the rituals of the old covenant. If the SDAs would only stop making it a salvational issue I would not be here debating.
 
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BABerean2

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You seemed to have forgotten this Command from Christ...

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

If it's all the same, I'll take my orders from Jesus, you can interpret Paul however you wish.

Lets look at a verse where Christ clearly contrasts two different sets of commandments.

Joh 15:10  If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.
(Christ did not say... "Keep my Father's commandments")



Why are there two separate sets of commandments above?
Because only Christ was able to keep the Sinai covenant.


Heb 8:7  For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 
(There was nothing wrong with the covenant. There is something wrong with us.)



We will allow the Book of Hebrews to reveal the same contrast.

We are not come to Mount Sinai.

Heb 12:18  For you have not come to the mountain that may be touched and that burned with fire, and to blackness and darkness and tempest, 
Heb 12:19  and the sound of a trumpet and the voice of words, so that those who heard it begged that the word should not be spoken to them anymore. 
Heb 12:20  (For they could not endure what was commanded: "AND IF SO MUCH AS A BEAST TOUCHES THE MOUNTAIN, IT SHALL BE STONED OR SHOT WITH AN ARROW." 
Heb 12:21  And so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, "I AM EXCEEDINGLY AFRAID AND TREMBLING.")

 
Instead, we are come to the New Covenant of Mount Zion.

Heb 12:22  But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 
Heb 12:23  to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, 
Heb 12:24  to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.


This contrast proves that the two covenants are not one and the same.

. 
 
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BobRyan

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Sorry once again ECR. Moses didn't "produce" the the statutes and ordinances either, God did and Moses wrote God's words on parchment. They are God's word just as the ones God wrote with His finger in stone. Statutes and ordinances you will admit was temporary and the 10 you have twisted into something unidentifiable.

Because the 10 commandments were temporary laws that ended at the Cross along with God's other laws that were given to a now defunct Israel the SDA church does not have one thread to stand on when they tell us we have to observe the Sabbath in order to gain salvation. If and when you will admit to the truth about 2Cor3 You will see why so many are leaving what they once thought was the way. There are many more texts that also prove SDAs and others are not teaching the real truth, but it appears the SDAs are the only ones that stipulate the salvation issue.

Saturday is as good as any other day to come together in corporate worship. As Christians we are free from the rituals of the old covenant. If the SDAs would only stop making it a salvational issue I would not be here debating.

opinion post -- noted.

Waiting for a Bible post.
 
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BobRyan

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Lets look at a verse where Christ clearly contrasts two different sets of commandments.

Joh 15:10  If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.
(Christ did not say... "Keep my Father's commandments")



Why are there two separate sets of commandments above?
Because only Christ was able to keep the Sinai covenant.


Heb 8:7  For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 
(There was nothing wrong with the covenant. There is something wrong with us.)



We will allow the Book of Hebrews to reveal the same contrast.

We are not come to Mount Sinai.

Heb 12:18  For you have not come to the mountain that may be touched and that burned with fire, and to blackness and darkness and tempest, 
Heb 12:19  and the sound of a trumpet and the voice of words, so that those who heard it begged that the word should not be spoken to them anymore. 
Heb 12:20  (For they could not endure what was commanded: "AND IF SO MUCH AS A BEAST TOUCHES THE MOUNTAIN, IT SHALL BE STONED OR SHOT WITH AN ARROW." 
Heb 12:21  And so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, "I AM EXCEEDINGLY AFRAID AND TREMBLING.")

 
Instead, we are come to the New Covenant of Mount Zion.

Heb 12:22  But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 
Heb 12:23  to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, 
Heb 12:24  to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.


This contrast proves that the two covenants are not one and the same.

. 

Christ says God's commandments and HIS commandments are the same ones
John 14:10..
10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.

It is GOD's Commandments - it is not a divide/war/conflict/ between Christ and the Father.

John 12
48 He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last day. 49 For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak. 50 I know that His commandment is eternal life; therefore the things I speak, I speak just as the Father has told Me.”


I believe Christ.

And of course in Hebrews 8:6-10 we are told it is CHRIST speaking at Sinai - as the God who delivered Israel from Egypt.
 
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BobRyan

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Sorry those verses are not in my Bible. Could you please use scripture to back up your claim.



The New Covenant is in Jeremiah 31:31-33 and is given specifically "to the House of Israel and the house of Judah".

Bible details matter

In the NT - sin is still "defined" this way "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4 NKJV

notice how explicitly NT authors not only affirm the Commandments of God - but quote from them to help those who might wonder if the TEN Commandments should be included?

================= notice the "Bible details"


In Matt 22 Jesus affirms OT - LAW and scripture
"Love God with all your heart" Deut 6:5
"Love your neighbor as yourself" Lev 19:18
Matt 22 "On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.

Matt 22
34 But when the Pharisees heard that He had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together. 35 Then one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, and saying, 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”
37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ (Deut 6:5) 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ (Lev 19:18) 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.

The firm foundation for the LAW and the prophets - LOVE.

TEN COMMANDMENTS AFFIRMED in NT

Matt 19
And someone came to Him and said;Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life 17 And He said to him, Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments; 18 Then he *said to Him, Which ones? And Jesus said,
You shall not commit murder;
You shall not commit adultery;
You shall not steal;
You shall not bear false witness;
19 Honor your father and mother;

and
You shall love your neighbor as yourself


"what matters is Keeping the Commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19

"Love Me and KEEP My Commandments" Ex 20:6
"If you LOVE Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15

Matt 5
17 Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


"do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31

What law? The Law that condemns all mankind as sinners -

Rom 3

19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

That same law - same chapter

"do we then make void the Law of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we ESTABLISH the LAW" Rom 3:31



Any part of scripture read could fall under that title.

Acts 13:15 And after the reading of the Law and the Prophets, the rulers of the synagogue sent to them, saying, Men and brethren, if you have any word of exhortation for the people, say on.

=================================

Rom 7
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
12 So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good.
13 Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful.
14 For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. 16 But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good.


Rom 13 NKJV
8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law.
9 For the commandments,
“You shall not commit adultery,
You shall not murder,
You shall not steal,
You shall not bear false witness,”
You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Rom 13 HCSB - Holman Bible
8 Do not owe anyone anything, except to love one another, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law.
9 The commandments:
Do not commit adultery;
do not murder;
do not steal;
do not covet;

and whatever other commandment—all are summed up by this: Love your neighbor as yourself.
10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor. Love, therefore, is the fulfillment of the law.



Romans 2
14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law.


13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.
...
25 For circumcision is indeed profitable if you keep the law; but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision? 27 And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; 29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

Rom 3
19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

"Sin IS transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4
"ALL have sinned" Romans 3:23

Both Jews AND Gentiles are explicitly included in Romans 2 --
4 Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who will render to each person according to his deeds: 7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; 8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.


Eph 6: 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise), -- the 5th commandment in that still-valid "unit of ten" is the "FIRST commandment with a promise.

James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, ou shall love your neighbor as yourself, (Lev 19:18) you are doing well.
9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.
11 For He who said, [/FONT]
Do not commit adultery
also said,
Do not commit murder.
Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty

============================

"the Sabbath was MADE for MANKIND" Mark 2:27
"from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Is 66:23

Notice that Is 66 says this is in the NEW Earth - a Revelation 21:1-3 point in time where there are no wicked left among "mankind".

Is 56:1-8 gentiles specifically blessed for keeping the weekly Sabbath.
Is 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all MANKIND come before Me to worship"
Mark 2:27 "The Sabbath was made for mankind"

The Law wasn't changed. It was fulfilled in Christ. Does the New Testament (New Covenant) mean anything to you?

Jeremiah 31:31-33 , Hebrews 8:6-10 ... it means the "LAW is written on the heart and mind" and "ESTABLISHED by our faith" Rom 3:31 as Paul said
 
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BABerean2

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Christ says God's commandments and HIS commandments are the same ones John 14:10..

I believe Christ.

No. You create a text to make your doctrine work, because the verse does not match "you quoting you", as you like to say.

Joh 14:10  Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. 


The word "commandments" is not found in the text you gave.

You are attempting the old "bait-and-switch" routine, again.

.
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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Because the 10 commandments were temporary laws that ended at the Cross along with God's other laws


But strangely, 9 of the 10 Laws are still in effect on the NT church... yet you don't see that you are only warring against keeping 1 of the 10?

Saturday is as good as any other day to come together in corporate worship. As Christians we are free from the rituals of the old covenant. If the SDAs would only stop making it a salvational issue I would not be here debating.
We share what we read in the Holy Bible, without tradition or supposition, as the scripture clearly reads, and encourage others to honour God through that obedience.

As far as a salvational issue, you know Bob that it's not salvational until the mark of the Beast crisis. Any Adventist that would state otherwise, don't know the message given.
 
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BABerean2

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As far as a salvational issue, you know Bob that it's not salvational until the mark of the Beast crisis. Any Adventist that would state otherwise, don't know the message given.

The Sabbath day was the "sign" of the Sinai covenant, which was "added" 430 years "later" than the promise made to Abraham "until" the seed (Christ) could come to whom the promise was made.

In the same way circumcision was the "sign" of the Abrahamic covenant.


Christ is the reality of both.

Claiming that worshipping on Sunday is the Mark of the Beast, is not a minor detail.

.
 
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