How many "Gods" can you count?
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edward...... you have yet to respond to anything in this post. It answers all of your questions regarding this topic... because it is truth
take care
FOW
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Posted by Kain: "Can an apple be an orange at the same time? A logical fallacy. By definition, an apple is not an oragne and vice versa. Also by definition, a God is not a man and vice versa. God says He is not a man and He doesn't change."
So you think that God can not change... since you're using this to assume 'state of being'... then I guess I could assume that He can not change His covenant??? God doesn't 'change' right??? What exactly does change mean then... guess He can't 'change the world' either ........ Exactly my point... God saying that He does not change has nothing to do with 'state of being'.... it has everything to do with who GOD is... which goes far beyond any particular 'form'. God became a man... while at the same time... being God. He became the Son...making Himself nothing... TAKING the nature of a servant... of a man, (this does not mean that He IS a man...no more, no less... like you or I... which is the 'man' thing that you referred to), so that He could become our sin.
God cannot be in the presence of sin, but out of His love for us He desired to take away that sin. This is why He took the nature of men... and took its penalty of death... even death on a cross. He became subservient to Himself... the Father. Now you say... He can't do that... and I tell you the truth... YES HE CAN!
Read this dialoge between myself and edpobre... it is one with which he has yet to respond to.
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Posted by ed: I know what is in the Bible fow. But that is not my question. I said you are NOT being RATIONAL because you said that this "thing" who is at the the side of the Father is "one and the SAME thing as the Father." BTW, what is this you cal "thing" fow?
you are the one that refered to 'thing'
Posted by ed: "Then show me the verse which says that the Father BECAME the SON."
The Bible says: (John 14:5-10) Thomas said to him, "Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?" Jesus answered, "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us." Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work."
The Bible says: (John 1:1-5, 14) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it... The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
The Bible says: (Revelation 19:13) He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.
The Bible says: (Phil 2:5-10) Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in APPEARANCE as a man, he HUMBLED HIMSELF and BECAME obedient to death--even death on a cross! Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, (Reminder: God will not give His glory to another... He is the LORD and Him alone), that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
The Bible says this was necessary: (Hebrews 9:14) How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God!
The Bible says: (Hebrews 9:16-17) In the cse of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while THE ONE WHO MADE IT is living.
Did God not make the covenant???
The Bible says: (Rev 19:16) On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. (Remeber God says that I am the LORD; that is my name! I will not give my glory to another or my praise to idols. (Isaiah 42:8)
well ed.... Christ says that HE is the Alapha and the Omega... the Beginning and the End... the First and the Last..... as does the Father. I ask you ed... are they not claiming the saim thing??? if two things come in first in a race... are they not of equal speed??? simple
ed's reply: If that's how you think, do you admit then that you believe there are two "Gods" whom you pass off as "things?"
No ed... that's not how I think.. They both say it ed... God says that there are no others... therefore they are one... they are both the Alpha and the Omega... the Beginning and the End... ther FIRST AND THE LAST!!!
Why did God create the earth ed??? It was because He desired a love relationship with a creation... Love ed... "Through Him all things were made that have been made" (John 1)... God is Love (1st John 4:8)... and through His love, He came to us. (also John 1) There are not two separate 'things' as you say ed... there is one Living God who is omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent. He is undescribable... and says that He IS.
When God made Himself a man... it was His love.... Jesus Christ... and He subjected himself to endure mans punishment, and subservience. This was His sacrifice, that He became our sins... God the Father can not be in the presence of sin, much less become it. Therefore, out of His uncomprehendible love... He made Himself nothing. He came to us and His name is Jesus Christ-Emmanuel-God with us: Yes... God can do that, even becoming something on earth, while at the same time being God the Father in Heaven. Yes... God can do any number of "evens" that one could fathom asking.
Christ, who being in very nature God, who made Himself nothing, became subject to God the Father... and at the end when all things were finished, was taken again into glory and given the title KING OF KINGS AND LORD OR LORDS... ALL CAPS ED. This is the title reserved for the LORD HIMSELF... WHO WILL NOT GIVE HIS GLORY TO ANOTHER... IT IS THE TITLE OF MY LORD CHRIST WHO IS RISEN FROM THE GRAVE HAVING DEFEATED DEATH... AND THE KEYS OF DEATH AND HADES RESIDE IN HIS HANDS! And after it is all over... Christ will subject Himself to the Father thus the Father becomes all in all. Christ is God... who made>HIMSELF<a man... and who was then again glorified by Him from whom He came
I believe
take care
FOW
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Posted by Kain: "Can an apple be an orange at the same time? A logical fallacy. By definition, an apple is not an oragne and vice versa. Also by definition, a God is not a man and vice versa. God says He is not a man and He doesn't change."
So you think that God can not change... since you're using this to assume 'state of being'... then I guess I could assume that He can not change His covenant??? God doesn't 'change' right??? What exactly does change mean then... guess He can't 'change the world' either ........ Exactly my point... God saying that He does not change has nothing to do with 'state of being'.... it has everything to do with who GOD is... which goes far beyond any particular 'form'. God became a man... while at the same time... being God. He became the Son...making Himself nothing... TAKING the nature of a servant... of a man, (this does not mean that He IS a man...no more, no less... like you or I... which is the 'man' thing that you referred to), so that He could become our sin.
God cannot be in the presence of sin, but out of His love for us He desired to take away that sin. This is why He took the nature of men... and took its penalty of death... even death on a cross. He became subservient to Himself... the Father. Now you say... He can't do that... and I tell you the truth... YES HE CAN!
Read this dialoge between myself and edpobre... it is one with which he has yet to respond to.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted by ed: I know what is in the Bible fow. But that is not my question. I said you are NOT being RATIONAL because you said that this "thing" who is at the the side of the Father is "one and the SAME thing as the Father." BTW, what is this you cal "thing" fow?
you are the one that refered to 'thing'
Posted by ed: "Then show me the verse which says that the Father BECAME the SON."
The Bible says: (John 14:5-10) Thomas said to him, "Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?" Jesus answered, "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us." Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work."
The Bible says: (John 1:1-5, 14) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it... The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
The Bible says: (Revelation 19:13) He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.
The Bible says: (Phil 2:5-10) Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in APPEARANCE as a man, he HUMBLED HIMSELF and BECAME obedient to death--even death on a cross! Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, (Reminder: God will not give His glory to another... He is the LORD and Him alone), that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
The Bible says this was necessary: (Hebrews 9:14) How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God!
The Bible says: (Hebrews 9:16-17) In the cse of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while THE ONE WHO MADE IT is living.
Did God not make the covenant???
The Bible says: (Rev 19:16) On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. (Remeber God says that I am the LORD; that is my name! I will not give my glory to another or my praise to idols. (Isaiah 42:8)
well ed.... Christ says that HE is the Alapha and the Omega... the Beginning and the End... the First and the Last..... as does the Father. I ask you ed... are they not claiming the saim thing??? if two things come in first in a race... are they not of equal speed??? simple
ed's reply: If that's how you think, do you admit then that you believe there are two "Gods" whom you pass off as "things?"
No ed... that's not how I think.. They both say it ed... God says that there are no others... therefore they are one... they are both the Alpha and the Omega... the Beginning and the End... ther FIRST AND THE LAST!!!
Why did God create the earth ed??? It was because He desired a love relationship with a creation... Love ed... "Through Him all things were made that have been made" (John 1)... God is Love (1st John 4:8)... and through His love, He came to us. (also John 1) There are not two separate 'things' as you say ed... there is one Living God who is omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent. He is undescribable... and says that He IS.
When God made Himself a man... it was His love.... Jesus Christ... and He subjected himself to endure mans punishment, and subservience. This was His sacrifice, that He became our sins... God the Father can not be in the presence of sin, much less become it. Therefore, out of His uncomprehendible love... He made Himself nothing. He came to us and His name is Jesus Christ-Emmanuel-God with us: Yes... God can do that, even becoming something on earth, while at the same time being God the Father in Heaven. Yes... God can do any number of "evens" that one could fathom asking.
Christ, who being in very nature God, who made Himself nothing, became subject to God the Father... and at the end when all things were finished, was taken again into glory and given the title KING OF KINGS AND LORD OR LORDS... ALL CAPS ED. This is the title reserved for the LORD HIMSELF... WHO WILL NOT GIVE HIS GLORY TO ANOTHER... IT IS THE TITLE OF MY LORD CHRIST WHO IS RISEN FROM THE GRAVE HAVING DEFEATED DEATH... AND THE KEYS OF DEATH AND HADES RESIDE IN HIS HANDS! And after it is all over... Christ will subject Himself to the Father thus the Father becomes all in all. Christ is God... who made>HIMSELF<a man... and who was then again glorified by Him from whom He came
I believe
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- A whole bunch! Even more if we include each Greek and Roman god and goddess. 
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- Hey Gunny! Those are actually pretty good sources. I'm impressed.
- The problem I have, of course, is that these folks define a "cult" as being simply "different from my religion". I tend to define it differently: http://www.skepdic.com/cults.html (note: this isn't an offensive link).
- The problem I have, of course, is that these folks define a "cult" as being simply "different from my religion". I tend to define it differently: http://www.skepdic.com/cults.html (note: this isn't an offensive link).
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Concerning the word "cult":
Merriam-Webster's third use of the word is about right as far as main stream Christianity is concerned.
3 : a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents
"spurious" sums it all up very well, for main stream Christianity.
I read the skepdic.***, it's funny in a way to read what such a small percentage of people think about the rest of us.
Blessings
Merriam-Webster's third use of the word is about right as far as main stream Christianity is concerned.
3 : a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents
"spurious" sums it all up very well, for main stream Christianity.
I read the skepdic.***, it's funny in a way to read what such a small percentage of people think about the rest of us.
Blessings
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I am sorry, but I have never come across the expression......."God the son" .......in the Bible. Perhaps you can tell me where exactly it is located. Thank-you.
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- That's okay... I find mainstream Christianity spurious as well.
- Funny it may be, but I still see no real difference between what you guys define as a "cult" and any other religion. Consider the indicators of a cult, and compare them with Christianity and Islam. Notice the similarities. Some of them manifest themselves right here in the forums.
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Lared,
How about the Holy Spirit? Don't leave the Holy Spirit out.
First place you will find it: GE 1:26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness,
The rest is easy from there.
GE 1:27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.
Blessings
How about the Holy Spirit? Don't leave the Holy Spirit out.
First place you will find it: GE 1:26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness,
The rest is easy from there.
GE 1:27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.
Blessings
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I suggest reading Matthew Henery complete on these verses: Gen 1:26 and 1:27. it's too much to paste but easily found.
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CARM.ORG and watchman.org. Now there's two good examples of unbiased and accurate information about other religions...
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Really Gunny, you should check your sources better.
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Yes, I should rather trust in a self proclaiming witch? I think not, sir.
PS 1:1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
PS 1:2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
PS 1:3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.
PS 1:4 The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.
PS 1:5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
PS 1:6 For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.
PS 2:1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
PS 2:2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,
PS 2:3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.
PS 2:4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the LORD shall have them in derision.
KJV
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"If you want to find out what a sparrow is, ask a sparrow."
A good example of this is the information most Christians use on the Ancient Druids. Most of the information comes from the propagndinsts of Ceasar, who was setting about to conquer the Celts. These political writers invented horrible rites and heinous practices designed to whip the senate into a frenzy and provide funds for the campaign. These accounts of Druidic practices are the basis for the Fundie Christians' Halloween Panic.
These same propagandists were also employed to discredit the new Christian religion that was spreading in the first century. They dutifully wrote of eyewitnes accounts that told of Christians eating babies and drinking their blood.
Now logic would dictate that to use one set of propaganda from the same people as fact would mean all of it was fact. How do you like your roast baby Gunny?
A good example of this is the information most Christians use on the Ancient Druids. Most of the information comes from the propagndinsts of Ceasar, who was setting about to conquer the Celts. These political writers invented horrible rites and heinous practices designed to whip the senate into a frenzy and provide funds for the campaign. These accounts of Druidic practices are the basis for the Fundie Christians' Halloween Panic.
These same propagandists were also employed to discredit the new Christian religion that was spreading in the first century. They dutifully wrote of eyewitnes accounts that told of Christians eating babies and drinking their blood.
Now logic would dictate that to use one set of propaganda from the same people as fact would mean all of it was fact. How do you like your roast baby Gunny?
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Annabel Lee
Beware the Thought Police
The Watchman site lists Catholicism as a cult. How interesting..Did you know that Gunny?
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Smilin
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Can you say: George Bush (Sr. and Jr.) on statements made concerning the country of Iraq?
Halloween panic...yep...I know those who barracade theirselves inside......(they make nice toilet papering targets)
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Annabel,
It also lists the "Bible" and Christianity in general. I am not sure what it leaves out, if anything. It looks like it was posted to show the definition, which in some sense includes all of us. It is a relative term.
Blessings
It also lists the "Bible" and Christianity in general. I am not sure what it leaves out, if anything. It looks like it was posted to show the definition, which in some sense includes all of us. It is a relative term.
Blessings
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Tell me ed... when one believes and is saved by God... whose Spirit goes to abide within him???
1 Cor. 2:10-14: But God has revealed it to us by His Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cnnnot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Galatians 3:5-- Does God give you his Spirit...
Galatians 4:6-- Because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of His Son into our hearts....
and ed... who is the Lord of glory (remembering that God will not give His glory to another!)
1 Cor. 2:8-- None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
Who made the covenant ed???
The Bible says this was necessary: (Hebrews 9:14) How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God!
The Bible says: (Hebrews 9:16-17) In the cse of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while THE ONE WHO MADE IT is living.
Did God not make the covenant???
God made Him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God!
believe ed
1 Cor. 2:10-14: But God has revealed it to us by His Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us. This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cnnnot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Galatians 3:5-- Does God give you his Spirit...
Galatians 4:6-- Because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of His Son into our hearts....
and ed... who is the Lord of glory (remembering that God will not give His glory to another!)
1 Cor. 2:8-- None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
Who made the covenant ed???
The Bible says this was necessary: (Hebrews 9:14) How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God!
The Bible says: (Hebrews 9:16-17) In the cse of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while THE ONE WHO MADE IT is living.
Did God not make the covenant???
God made Him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God!
believe ed
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