25 years in Faith Movement:The TRUTH

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SpiritPsalmist

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mjwhite,

I am sorry if my post seemed to be mainly aimed at you. It was not.  I also apologize for the irritation that I wrote it with.  I still believe that basically, your questions have been answered.  Also, that what is being taught by Hobie is not really very different if any difference at all in what you say. 

What I'm seeing is that Hobie says it, and you hear it differnetly and then you say what you believe, not really saying anything different from what you just said you opposed.

In my estimation God does not have faith in Himself because He is Faith.  Faith as we understand it is to have a belief in something so strong that it will do what we trust it to do.  Such as we have faith in God to forgive us our sins when we confess them to Him. 

Having the faith of God would go farther than that . . .believing not only that my sins are forgiven but knowing and speaking like I'm a totally different person this moment than I was the moment before. Look up 2 Cor 5:17. 

Think about it.  How many people really have the faith of God in that scripture?  Very few.  They know they're forgiven but yet they still talk about all the things they're in bondage too.  They still talk about how sick they are, how broke they are, how much the devil is gettin' the best of them. . .They are not exercising the faith of God in their words or their actions.  Some may try real hard but it has not become a scripure that they fully even have their own faith in, much less God's.

God does not trust that what He speaks comes in to existence.  He knows that whatever He speaks comes in to existence.  This is the kind of faith I believe that is being referred to as "the faith of God".  If we know that what we need is God's will then to have the faith of God would be to speak it into existence.

I'm not saying it will happen immediately.  It may take 10 years. But the faith of God will bring it. :)
 
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SavedByGrace3

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But the charge remains: you choose to make a whole doctrine out of ONE verse BUT refuse to deal with MANY verses that contradict your beliefs.
So are you going to change your doctrine to match the WORD of GOD, or are you going to keep preaching a false doctrine, the word of Hobart?

This recurring objection is neither true nor fair. Let me point out the reality of my dealing with these issues:

Post 140:
Mark 11:22 presented in 3 different versions including the original Greek.
2 other verses used to support the correct translation of this verse.
1 Reference to TSK supporting this translation.


Post 141:
8 verses supporting the concept that God uses faith.
2 References support the translations of this concept.


Post 142:
19 verses (every instance) showing the greek wording translating the English "in God". Proving that the English wording "in God" is never translated "of God".


Post 143:
56 verses quoted/sited proving that the Greek word "theou" is consistently used to assign attributes to God such as love, peace, joy, etc. It would be unreasonable and incorrect to translate any of these instances "in" God".


Post 153:
4 Translations from the literal Greek translation and Darby showing that the translation is "of God."
4 references sited proving that this translation is common and understandable by theologians and Greek experts alike.


Post 156:
A list of over 650 verses where the word theou is translated "of God" or some similar meaning. It is never translated "in God" except in the verse in question.


Post 169:
Once again 5 instances of 11:22 in 5 different versions showing it to be "of God".
4 references sited proving this is an acceptable translation.
The very ancient (4) Vulgate Latin, Syriac, Persic, and Ethiopic versions sited as holding to this translation.


Post 142 reposted for those who missed it (19 verses quoted).

Overall, 100+ plus verses/references quoted/sited. (not counting the 650 others that were used as a single proof of how theou is translated).

In all honesty, I cannot see that I am basing this "on just one verse", or that I am just making this up. At some point, one has to begin to question the questioner. You may not agree with the concept, which is your right. But to say I have not dealt with it casts a doubt on your position. You have offered 0 verses that would contradict what I have presented. You claim I am ignoring "hundreds of verses" that contradict what I am saying. Why have you not quoted any of them? Where are they?
There are hundreds of more verses I could quote that not only show God exercising faith(as in the ones quoted in post 141 and 169), starting in Gen 1 and proceeding through.
If you want to disagree. Ok. But it is disingenuous to say I have not done the work.


 
 
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LouisBooth

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"which is literally, word for word "faith of God", take out the "of", and replace it with an "in"? "

*sigh* I showed you 2 quick examples that proved otherwise..did you not see them? Its faith IN God, not faith of God. Please come back to me when you have a degree in greek?

"E.W.Kenyon"

Umm..that was the first probem ;)
 
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SavedByGrace3

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"which is literally, word for word "faith of God", take out the "of", and replace it with an "in"? "
*sigh* I showed you 2 quick examples that proved otherwise..did you not see them? Its faith IN God, not faith of God. Please come back to me when you have a degree in greek?


1.  I am afraid the two quick verses you mentioned had nothing to do with the passage we were discussing in vocabulary or topic.  I pointed out the difference a couple times. The word theou (genitive form "of God") does not even exist in these verses. In the one instance we have faith in His name. Absolutely! Amen. In The other we mix faith with the Word. Both these verses are absolutely true. But Mk 11:22 still says what it says. Theou = "of God." There is no escaping it.

2.  I have never denied that there are many verses that say we should have faith in God. We most certainly should!

3.  The verse in question uses the phrase "theou" = "of God".

4.  You do not need a degree in Greek to know how to read English.


 

 
 
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LouisBooth

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"I am afraid the two quick verses you mentioned had nothing to do with the passage we were discussing in vocabulary or topic. "

Yes, they were. I showed you that the words which used where quite approparte. you mistakenly thought the term theou was the word attributed to the "in" intertion, but it was not. If you had read my post you would have seen that. This verse is rightly translated Faith in God. If you looked up your greek words you would see that ;)

on point 4 I agree with you, but to say that greek scholars are wrong, then yes you do. :)
 
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Dear Quaffer,
you said, I am sorry if my post seemed to be mainly aimed at you. It was not. I also apologize for the irritation that I wrote it with. I still believe that basically, your questions have been answered.

Basically? I had specific questions that weren't answered and still are not EXCEPT that hobart has basically said he is going to ignore certain verses in the Bible because they dont match his overall beliefs. So i have questioned him about a verse, and he says that basically he is not going to take that verse into account when forming his doctrine. His picking and choosing which verses to adhere to is driven by his doctrine INSTEAD of the Bible driving how one believes.

you said, What I'm seeing is that Hobie says it, and you hear it differnetly and then you say what you believe, not really saying anything different from what you just said you opposed.


That is nonsense, If you wish to make staements like that, back them up with quotes from Hobart AND myself to show how i am not saying anything different than Hobart. He certainly hasn't said how he agrees with me, so it is curious that you think we do.

you In my estimation God does not have faith in Himself because He is Faith. Faith as we understand it is to have a belief in something so strong that it will do what we trust it to do. Such as we have faith in God to forgive us our sins when we confess them to Him.

Well you misunderstand faith then. Where did you get that idea or definition of faith? That is not how dictionaries define it. That is not how God's Word defines it.

Faith is trust. Faith has an object. Faith isn't a tool we use to make what we trust "do what we trust it to do". We trust God [to forgive our sins] because He is trustworthy and he has said if we confess them, He will forgive them. God is the object of our faith [we trust Him], he isn't our faith.

Likewise, your definition of faith doesn't make sense...

...for you said, He is Faith, and...

...you said, Faith as we understand it is to have a belief in something so strong that it will do what we trust it to do

so i will plug your two definitions together: God as you understand Him is a belief in something so strong that it will do what we trust Him to do. [I substituted God for faith, since you said "He is faith"]

BUT God is not a belief, BUT who we believe in. Your defintion of both God and faith shows how far you are from understanding the truth in this whole matter.

Faith is being sure of what you hope for and certain of what you do not see.[Hebrews 11;1] For God to have faith, he must have an object to put that faith in, someone or something He trusts and has hope in. But God has no need of hope and He already sees all. He acts with certainity because of WHO He is. And because of WHO HE is, we can trust Him [have faith in Him] so that while we are in His will, we can ask what what we will and he will give us that. The key is not as Hobart declared, 'can I believe my neighbor might want a new car? If so, then I can ask for one for myself' or words to that affect, BUT a prayerful consideration of His will for each of us as individuals and a trusting in Him that as our loving heavenly Father, He will take care of our needs as He sees best given His overwhelming greater knowledge and wisdom.
 
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Dear Readers,

Hobart was charged by me…
quote:
But the charge remains: you choose to make a whole doctrine out of ONE verse BUT refuse to deal with MANY verses that contradict your beliefs.
So are you going to change your doctrine to match the WORD of GOD, or are you going to keep preaching a false doctrine, the word of Hobart?

Hobart responded…
This recurring objection is neither true nor fair. Let me point out the reality of my dealing with these issues:
and His responses [in italics] with my comments following each…
Post 140:
Mark 11:22 presented in 3 different versions including the original Greek.
2 other verses used to support the correct translation of this verse.
1 Reference to TSK supporting this translation.


I was not contesting the Greek translation, so it doesn’t matter how many versions he refers to, BUT since he brought it up, lets quote from his post 140 and see what we come up with… [Hobart in italics]

Other times the use indicates that something is coming from God.
Such as:
1Cor 1:3 grace to you and peace from God
Hebr 6:7 blessing from God

In every case, the use is detemined by the context. The first example would not really make sense if we tried to translate it "grace to you and peace of God". You might figure out that the grace and peace were initially God's and were being extended to you.


Here in 1Cor. 1:3, theou was translated ++FROM God++ as opposed to ++OF God++. Why then shouldn’t we translate mark 11:22 the faith FROM God.? It makes more sense since our faith is a gift of God and not of ourselves {Eph. 2:8-9]

Hobart’s next defense
Post 141:
8 verses supporting the concept that God uses faith.
2 References support the translations of this concept.


None of those verses [Have. # 9:23 [?] 2Ch 20:20 Ps 62:8 Isa 7:9 Joh 14:1 1:1[?] Romans 4:7] Hobart used support anything like God using faith. These verses talk about our need to trust IN God and nothing about God needing to trust or have faith in anything at all. Neither reference he gave supported that concept.

His next defense:

Post 142:
19 verses (every instance) showing the greek wording translating the English "in God". Proving that the English wording "in God" is never translated "of God".


This does NOT speak to the charges I made. I accused Hobart of making doctrine from a single verse while he admittedly ignored multiple verses in devising other doctrine. How many verses are translated ‘in God’ or not ‘in God’ has nothing to do with my charge. This point of his is a mute one.

He continued:
Post 143:
56 verses quoted/sited proving that the Greek word "theou" is consistently used to assign attributes to God such as love, peace, joy, etc. It would be unreasonable and incorrect to translate any of these instances "in" God".


Again, a mute point. I have already shown by Hobart’s own words that the phrase ‘theou’ can be translated FROM God. He chooses to translate it OF God which doesn’t make sense since God has no need of faith FOR there is no one greater than Himself for God to trust in, AND since one of faith’s components is HOPE, God doesn’t have Faith because He has no need to HOPE since he already knows all.

Hobart continues…
Post 153:
4 Translations from the literal Greek translation and Darby showing that the translation is "of God."
4 references sited proving that this translation is common and understandable by theologians and Greek experts alike.


The point isn’t what the literal Greek is, but how it should read in English. As we have seen sometimes ‘theou’ is translated FROM GOD.

Te 4 references are:

Barnes Commentary:
Have faith in God - Literally, “Have the faith of God.”


So literally it reads ‘faith of God’ but it is translated ‘faith in God’. How does this support Hobart? It disagrees with his translation.

Clarks Commentary:
Have faith in God - Å÷åôå ðéϚéí èåïõ is a mere Hebraism: have the faith of God, i.e. have strong faith, or the strongest faith, for thus the Hebrews expressed the superlative degree; so the mountains of God mean exceeding great mountains - the hail of God, exceeding great hail, etc.


Hobart said that ‘theou’ shows us an attribute of God but is the hail of God actually an attribute of God or simply a way of saying exceedingly great hail? Therefore by this thought, ‘theou’ doesn’t mean an attribute of God, simply exceedingly great faith which by all rights would be exceedingly great faith IN God!

But this is my whole point. Is there any other verses that show God has faith? NO! Hobart simply misinterprets this one so he can make the Bible after his own word and not derive his beliefs from the Bible.

Gills Commentary:
have faith in God; or "the faith of God", so the Vulgate Latin, Syriac, Persic, and Ethiopic versions

Again the commentary interprets the literal Greek as have faith IN God.

Treasury of Scriptural Knowledge:
faith in God. or, the faith of God.

Same. These commentaries do NOT support Hobart’s position against my charge, BUT RATHER support my charge that he is making up doctrine falsely.

Hobart
Post 156:
A list of over 650 verses where the word theou is translated "of God" or some similar meaning. It is never translated "in God" except in the verse in question.


Not the point. There is only ONE verse that is translated ‘faith of God’, and none of these verses support Hobart’s unorthodox interpretation of Mark 11:22.

Hobart againPost 169:
Once again 5 instances of 11:22 in 5 different versions showing it to be "of God".
4 references sited proving this is an acceptable translation.
The very ancient (4) Vulgate Latin, Syriac, Persic, and Ethiopic versions sited as holding to this translation.

Post 142 reposted for those who missed it (19 verses quoted).

Overall, 100+ plus verses/references quoted/sited. (not counting the 650 others that were used as a single proof of how theou is translated).


None of that pertains to my charge except where it supports me. None of the verses qouted or the commentaries referred to support the idea that God has faith.

HobartIn all honesty, I cannot see that I am basing this "on just one verse", or that I am just making this up. At some point, one has to begin to question the questioner. You may not agree with the concept, which is your right. But to say I have not dealt with it casts a doubt on your position. You have offered 0 verses that would contradict what I have presented. You claim I am ignoring "hundreds of verses" that contradict what I am saying. Why have you not quoted any of them? Where are they?
There are hundreds of more verses I could quote that not only show God exercising faith(as in the ones quoted in post 141 and 169), starting in Gen 1 and proceeding through.
If you want to disagree. Ok. But it is disingenuous to say I have not done the work.


Well I certainly won’t say that Hobart has not done a lot of work for he certainly has. But the point is NOT whther the Greek could be interpreted to mean God has faith but should it be.

The verses where Hobart claims that God has exercised faith do NO such thing. When God speaks and things happen, it is NOT because God has faith but it is because of who God is, uhmmm..GOD! He speaks and things happen because He is all powerful all mighty sovereign God. And that is why He is worthy of our faith and trust.

I challenge Hobart to lay out all these scriptures where he claims God exercised faith, and you will see that it is not God trusting in anything, but simply God being God and doing as he pleases. God does not need faith, he speaks and it happens. Nothing happens simply because we speak, but when we trust [have faith] in God, we speak and God then decides to act or not [depending if we are in His will or not].
 
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SavedByGrace3

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This is another selection from our Bible School:

A letter from a brother:


...I love the Lord very very much. I try and I try, but I find that despite all my efforts, I cannot get the victory over sin. I have prayed, fasted, and done everything that I can think of, but it always seems to come back and get the best of me. I wonder if I will ever overcome. I feel so alone, and find it hard to talk about this with people I know, for fear that they will not understand. I am at the end of my rope, and do not know what else to do. Sometimes I feel like giving up. I love the Lord, and I know He loves me. But sometimes I wonder what He thinks of me. I feel I am letting Him down, or that He is getting tired of forgiving me over and over for the same things. I am such a failure. Am I doomed to this the rest of my life? Am I even saved? Please help me!!


The purpose of this course is exactly what the title says. It is to bring you to the place where you will never sin again.

The answer is not obvious. You will never come to this information via reasoning and logic. No religion or ethical system will teach you what you are about to learn. It is given by revelation, and that from the Word of God.

Of all the messages and lessons you have learned since you learned the truth of the gospel, this is by far the most important, and the most powerful. You are going to find it a struggle going through these lessons. It has been the experience of past students to have encountered great opposition during this study. Within these lessons are the great truths which will release you from the snares and chains of the enemy. You will slip from bondage, and be freed of guilt, fear, and darkness. I am not being overly dramatic in saying that this is the most important restorational teaching since the Charismatic and Prophetic teachings of the seventies and eighties. Many of the people who send me letters like the one above are tongue talking, laying on of hands, Christians. They have power for ministering to the lives of others, but are struggling with sin in their own lives. They feel as if it is all for naught if they cannot resolve this problem. This is where we are going. Without this, all is for naught and we are living as mere men. If these truths are received with an open mind and meditative heart, you will see the light of the overcomers. The final chapter is about to open, and there will be an body of overcomers.

Can it be true? You ask.

Is it really possible?

Is it possible for you to not sin?

If victory over sin is not a possibility in Christ, then the new birth is a failure, and Christ died in vain.

Most have thought that the purpose of redemption is to save man from hell. God redeemed man so that we would be capable of, and go on to do: good works!

Ephesians 1
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:


Ephesians 2
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.


[wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth] 2:
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify to himself [his own] special people, zealous of good works.


1 Thessalonians 5
23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and [I pray God] your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.


These are frightening words to the believer who has not overcome the world.

Jesus came to destroy the works of the devil.

We know that all who are born of women are children of Adam, and because Adam became a child of the devil, we inherited this fallen nature also. How did Jesus destroy this work of the devil? How is this done in your life?

We will look at the situation in these stages:
1. The Old man. Degenerate Spirit. Soul ruled old man. Flesh.
2. The New man. Regenerate Spirit. soul renewed to submit to spirit. Flesh crucified.
3. Does condemnation, fear, and, guilt lead to righteousness and sinlessness.
4. The true path to sinlessness. Overcome by faith.
 
 
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SpiritPsalmist

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Originally posted by mjwhite
Dear Quaffer,
you said, I am sorry if my post seemed to be mainly aimed at you. It was not. I also apologize for the irritation that I wrote it with. I still believe that basically, your questions have been answered.

Basically? I had specific questions that weren't answered and still are not EXCEPT that hobart has basically said he is going to ignore certain verses in the Bible because they dont match his overall beliefs. So i have questioned him about a verse, and he says that basically he is not going to take that verse into account when forming his doctrine. His picking and choosing which verses to adhere to is driven by his doctrine INSTEAD of the Bible driving how one believes.

you said, What I'm seeing is that Hobie says it, and you hear it differnetly and then you say what you believe, not really saying anything different from what you just said you opposed.


That is nonsense, If you wish to make staements like that, back them up with quotes from Hobart AND myself to show how i am not saying anything different than Hobart. He certainly hasn't said how he agrees with me, so it is curious that you think we do.

you In my estimation God does not have faith in Himself because He is Faith. Faith as we understand it is to have a belief in something so strong that it will do what we trust it to do. Such as we have faith in God to forgive us our sins when we confess them to Him.

Well you misunderstand faith then. Where did you get that idea or definition of faith? That is not how dictionaries define it. That is not how God's Word defines it.

Faith is trust. Faith has an object. Faith isn't a tool we use to make what we trust "do what we trust it to do". We trust God [to forgive our sins] because He is trustworthy and he has said if we confess them, He will forgive them. God is the object of our faith [we trust Him], he isn't our faith.

Likewise, your definition of faith doesn't make sense...

...for you said, He is Faith, and...

...you said, Faith as we understand it is to have a belief in something so strong that it will do what we trust it to do

so i will plug your two definitions together: God as you understand Him is a belief in something so strong that it will do what we trust Him to do. [I substituted God for faith, since you said "He is faith"]

BUT God is not a belief, BUT who we believe in. Your defintion of both God and faith shows how far you are from understanding the truth in this whole matter.

Faith is being sure of what you hope for and certain of what you do not see.[Hebrews 11;1] For God to have faith, he must have an object to put that faith in, someone or something He trusts and has hope in. But God has no need of hope and He already sees all. He acts with certainity because of WHO He is. And because of WHO HE is, we can trust Him [have faith in Him] so that while we are in His will, we can ask what what we will and he will give us that. The key is not as Hobart declared, 'can I believe my neighbor might want a new car? If so, then I can ask for one for myself' or words to that affect, BUT a prayerful consideration of His will for each of us as individuals and a trusting in Him that as our loving heavenly Father, He will take care of our needs as He sees best given His overwhelming greater knowledge and wisdom.

It's really too bad that my simplistic way of trying to help explain something does not meet up to your standards.  I, like you could have just rephrased Heb 11:1.

Since I've deliberately withheld particulars about myself, you have no clue how much faith I have had to walk and have to continue to walk in.

You have no idea how long I have had to trust God for all that He has done for me.

There have been times when what I needed was supplied the moment I requested it.  There were other times that it took weeks, months, even years, standing in faith on God's promises.

I say this with thankfullness to God and a deep knowledge that no matter how long it took or may take, does not nullify that God is faithful.  It does not matter what defination you want to use, God is faithful.

Up to this point I have not wanted nor have I needed a cadalac.  But the day that I do, God will supply it.

I have however, needed money, food, clothing, shoes, healing, a good car, a home, protection, a job, stamps, etc., etc., etc.

I have had to trust God in all of these areas and then some.  I've been mocked publicly for my trust but God has come through so amazingly that my mockers mouths were shut.

My mockers, mostly, have been "well-meaning" Christians who told me most of the same stuff that I've seen coming from those who oppose the "faith movement".

Within my spirit I knew they were wrong and I did it the way God directed me with His Word and His Spirit.  I've come out, every time, way ahead of all those who criticized me and told me how unbiblical I was.

I've been gossiped about, slandered, and ridiculed.  I've even been fired because I stood up for what was right.  And, today, some of those people are not serving God at all while others are still in the same place they were when I last saw them.  Some are even sick.  The one who fired me, lost his job a few years later.

But me, I'm not only not sick, but I'm healthier than they estimated I should be.  I'm also spiritually, miles ahead of them. I'm walking in healing and provision while their still debating over it.

So in trying to keep it simple (I've gone deeper in other threads) I did not discribe faith to your satisfaction.  Well, maybe so, but I know fully well what it is.  I know how to walk it.  I know how to rest in it.  I know how to live it. I know how to depend on it.  :bow:

I would not have faith if I did not have God who demonstrated it for me.  So you can play with words all you want.
 
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SavedByGrace3

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So in trying to keep it simple (I've gone deeper in other threads) I did not discribe faith to your satisfaction.  Well, maybe so, but I know fully well what it is.  I know how to walk it.  I know how to rest in it.  I know how to live it. I know how to depend on it.

Well said Quaffie. As I have said again and again, God never intended for His children to have to be theologians or greek scholars in order to walk in faith and believe. There is something very wrong with a complicated, long winded gospel that attempts to explain away the promises and goodness of God. Believe as a child would.
 
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LouisBooth

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"There is something very wrong with a complicated, long winded gospel that attempts to explain away the promises and goodness of God. Believe as a child would."

I think you misunderstand theology vs belief hobs. Beileve as a child, but do not understand as a child. Big big difference. yes, I think God did intend for somethings to be understood ONLY after study and higher education. The message will always remain the same though, on that we agree.

As far as being physically blessed here..go for it, I'll take mine when I get to heaven ;)
 
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Dear Quaffer,

I didn't paraphrase Hebrews 11:1. is the NIV a paraphrase?

What is "too bad" is that you not only failed to explain truth, but you also did not answer any point i made.

I used the Biblical definition of faith and i asked you where you got your definition of faith. You did not bother to answer.

When you use a definition that does not meet up with either the Biblical defintion or the dictionary definition, I don't think it is improper for me to ask you from where your definition comes from.

As to Hobart's remark to believe as a child would, that seems to cut both ways even if y'all won't admit it. My children sometimes ask for things they shouldn't have yet id ever. In their ignorance of life they make requests that as a loving father I must turn down. Therefore a child's faith in their parent has to extend to these 'NOes' despite their disappointment at not recieving what it is they desired.

BUT you two would rather dodge my charges and the truth of the scriptures. Are you representative of the faith movement as a whole? If so, then I see why it has the bad rep, it deserves it.
 
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SpiritPsalmist

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Originally posted by mjwhite
Dear Quaffer,

I didn't paraphrase Hebrews 11:1. is the NIV a paraphrase?

What is "too bad" is that you not only failed to explain truth, but you also did not answer any point i made.

I used the Biblical definition of faith and i asked you where you got your definition of faith. You did not bother to answer.

When you use a definition that does not meet up with either the Biblical defintion or the dictionary definition, I don't think it is improper for me to ask you from where your definition comes from.

As to Hobart's remark to believe as a child would, that seems to cut both ways even if y'all won't admit it. My children sometimes ask for things they shouldn't have yet id ever. In their ignorance of life they make requests that as a loving father I must turn down. Therefore a child's faith in their parent has to extend to these 'NOes' despite their disappointment at not recieving what it is they desired.

BUT you two would rather dodge my charges and the truth of the scriptures. Are you representative of the faith movement as a whole? If so, then I see why it has the bad rep, it deserves it.

orig posted by quaffer [/B]
It's really too bad that my simplistic way of trying to help explain something does not meet up to your standards.  I, like you could have just rephrased Heb 11:1.

[/i] [/B]

As you can see by my copy and paste I did not use the word paraphrase.

I was not trying to give a definition of faith.  Heb 11:1 says it quite nicely. Thank you very much.

God says, if we ask anything according to His will, in His name, then we can have it.  So, if God says that I don't need to worry about food, I can ask Him for food and I don't see that He will give me a bag of rocks instead.  Do you?  I also don't see that He would say, "no" you don't need to eat today.  Do you? 

As previously stated, I'm not asking God for riches. And everything I've ever asked Him for, I've yet to hear a no.  So, I must not be asking amiss.

  posted by quaffer


So in trying to keep it simple&nbsp;(I've gone deeper in other threads)&nbsp;I&nbsp;did&nbsp;not&nbsp;discribe faith&nbsp;to your satisfaction.&nbsp; Well, maybe so, but I know fully well what it is.&nbsp; I know how to walk it.&nbsp; I know how to rest in it.&nbsp; I know how to live it. I know how to depend on it.&nbsp; <IMG alt="" src="http://www.christianforums.com/images/smilies/bow.gif" border=0>


And I did not realize you really wanted an answer but I believe I did answer.&nbsp; I purposefully was trying to keep it simple because I'd already gone into GREAT detail in other posts.



And it really is not necessary to insult or degrade me.&nbsp;

&nbsp;
 
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MizDoulos

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Please Note: The discussion is turning worse with accusations being made against certain members. I suggest that everyone take a breather for a few days. If the discussion continues to deteriorate, the thread will be closed.

Thank you for your cooperation.
 
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SavedByGrace3

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Please Note: The discussion is turning worse with accusations being made against certain members. I suggest that everyone take a breather for a few days. If the discussion continues to deteriorate, the thread will be closed.

Thank you for your cooperation.

No, thank you!! :clap:

I did not believe that it would be allowed for members to carry on a declared harassment campaign against another member!
You have renewed my confidence in the mods! :wave:
Please return back often and long. You are welcome and appreciated!
 
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MizDoulos

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I have removed the last post as it would have caused more disharmony among members. Since the warning has been disregarded, this thread will be closed until further notice.

Am sorry to have to lock it, but it left me no choice.
 
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MizDoulos

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Note: The thread has been reopened at the request of Hobart Schmedly. Please be mindful of the forum rules and re-read the warning notes previously written.

If anyone has a personal complaint against another, use the Private Message or e-mail option to express your thoughts and try to resolve the problem. Do not air them publicly as it will cause more disharmony. If the discussion deteriorates again, the thread will be closed permanently.

Thank you for your cooperation.
 
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