24 People Have Died Since Violence Erupted Following George Floyd’s Death

[HannahT]

I'm sorry if I conflated antifa with ordinary liberals. It was an accident. An ordinary liberal isn't an antifa for the same reason an ordinary conservative isn't a white nationalist.

That be true.

Yet, conflating is the name of the game today. Respected labels are now slurs to be used as weapons, which can be used as excuses to divide and make sure no conversations of substance can be had.

Now, you get away from the cameras/talking heads/politicians that push that garbage about how all liberals are this, and all conservatives are that? They can.

Yet, remember those types don't bring in the dollars from clicks. Encouraging the ginning up of stuff? That brings in the revenue. Since the media is driven by profit? Guess which way they will go - divide or unite? Divide makes them rich. Hate makes them richer, because the headlines just keep coming! Cah- CLING!

 

[JustSomeBloke]

Should George Floyd's death been kept a secret so that these 24 people wouldn't have died?

No. Firstly, uncensored news is one of the cornerstones of democracy. Secondly, it's very difficult to censor anything now that everyone can self-publish on social media.

In any case, as this is election year, and all previous attempts to remove President Trump from office had failed, some of those on the Left were getting desperate. From that point of view, George Floyd was simply the trigger event, or excuse, for unleashing months of violent disorder. If it hadn't been George Floyd, some other trigger event involving police brutality would have been selected.

 

[Sistrin]

I don’t suppose the name Cliven Bundy rings any bells, does it?

There is no comparison here at all. No one died in the Nevada incident, no businesses were looted, no businesses torched, no police officers attacked, shot, or killed, no eight year old children shot dead, no statues or monuments destroyed, no rioting in the streets, no attacks against Federal Buildings requiring Federal Agents to defend them all while being assaulted by a bunch of Fascist idiots hiding behind their little black masks and no sycophantic media refusing to report on it all.

The Bundy case was settled in court, see United States v. Bundy. You got nothing here.

 

[Sistrin]

Conservatives caused quite a bit of chaos in Charlottesville.

And this is a load of crap as well.

Antifa was at Charlottesville, specifically brought in to do what Antifa does, incite and conduct violence. In addition look into the background of then-Mayor Michael Signer. Signer tried to thrust himself into the national spotlight by sanctimoniously standing up and declaring Charlottesville the "capital of the resistance" against the Trump Administration, thus inviting, begging, for conflict. And he got his wish.

 

[iluvatar5150]

There is no comparison here at all. No one died in the Nevada incident, no businesses were looted, no businesses torched, no police officers attacked, shot, or killed, no eight year old children shot dead, no statues or monuments destroyed, no rioting in the streets, no attacks against Federal Buildings requiring Federal Agents to defend them all while being assaulted by a bunch of Fascist idiots hiding behind their little black masks and no sycophantic media refusing to report on it all.

"No police officers attacked"? Really? What do you call pointing a bunch of loaded weapons at them while they're trying to do their job?

No one died because the feds backed off.

And the second standoff (i.e. the one in OR where they requested the mailing of snacks) involved his kid participating in the seizure of a federal park building.

The Bundy case was settled in court, see United States v. Bundy. You got nothing here.

Bundy lost that case. The standoff happened when BLM tried to enforce the outcome of it.

And this is a load of crap as well.

Antifa was at Charlottesville, specifically brought in to do what Antifa does, incite and conduct violence. In addition look into the background of then-Mayor Michael Signer. Signer tried to thrust himself into the national spotlight by sanctimoniously standing up and declaring Charlottesville the "capital of the resistance" against the Trump Administration, thus inviting, begging, for conflict. And he got his wish.

Antifa didn't force the white guys to chant "you will not replace us, jews will not replace us." Antifa didn't force a white guy to drive his car into a crowd of people.

It's hard to articulate just how disgusting, hypocritical, and dishonest these two posts are. It's one thing to be sympathetic to the Bundys' general plight, but acting as an apologist for murderous racists is something special.

 

[BobRyan]

If a black conservative gets killed by leftists, that won't lead to rioting and killing on the part of conservatives. Conservatives don't riot and kill, unlike antifa.

Pattern rioting, a movement of riots with tons of sponsorship on the one hand -- and on the other hand "small one-offs" scattered all through time here one and then a decade later maybe another "incident".

 

[BobRyan]

Antifa was at Charlottesville, specifically brought in to do what Antifa does, incite and conduct violence. .

Sorta like those white nationalists showing up at a big planned BLM riot and trying to shut it down with violence. No wait... I guess that didn't happen.

 

[Sistrin]

It's hard to articulate just how disgusting, hypocritical, and dishonest these two posts are. It's one thing to be sympathetic to the Bundys' general plight, but acting as an apologist for murderous racists is something special.

The charge of racism is the first recourse of the intellectually bankrupt.

 

[Sistrin]

Sorta like those white nationalists showing up at a big planned BLM riot and trying to shut it down with violence. No wait... I guess that didn't happen.

Do you have an actual incident to cite?

 

[iluvatar5150]

The charge of racism is the first recourse of the intellectually bankrupt.

Are you denying that the guys in Charlottesville chanting "you will not replace us, jews will not replace us" were racists?

Also, if you want to accuse me of being intellectually bankrupt, then grow a pair and come out and do it.

 

[Toro]

There is zero guarantee that any of those people would be alive today regardless of George Floyd.

People die in car accidents, sickness, heart attacks, drownings, strokes, "random" acts of violence and many other things.

The problem isnt that truth came to light.

Its that people use any excuse to justify the wicked things they do.

Truth didnt kill anyone.
Truth didnt choose to cause people to loot and erupt into chaos.

The wickedness in mens hearts used the death of George Floyd and others to justify their deeds. Which is just as despicable as those using his death or the death of any human being for political or financial gain.

 

[Jonathan Walkerin]

well I do agree that there should be a "no shouting fire in a crowded theater" law for news organizations who are overtly race-baiting and goading groups to riot for the sake of ratings and political agenda.

Sure, let’s include politicians and other media influencers on this.

Then we get to who is going to do the censorship. White House appointees ?

No fear of seeing Fauci again we would just be fed with information how to prevent unwanted astral sex with demons. Probably with astral condoms manufactured by some relatives.

 

[Lord Vega]

Are you denying that the guys in Charlottesville chanting "you will not replace us, jews will not replace us" were racists?

Also, if you want to accuse me of being intellectually bankrupt, then grow a pair and come out and do it.

From my observations, white nationalists will generally not cause violence and hurt people so long as they're left alone. It's generally the antifa who provoke and instigate violence, harm, and rioting. Yes, I'm aware of James Alex Fields, who attacked counter-protestors by going GTA on them in his vehicle, killing one of them. But he is an outlier among white nationalists.

If white nationalists want to get together and do stupid things like shout anti-Jewish chants or burn books, why does antifa feel the need to confront them and instigate conflict that could turn out violent? Just leave them alone in their own bizarre world.

 

[grasping the after wind]

I don’t suppose the name Cliven Bundy rings any bells, does it?

Was Cliven Bundy a black conservative who was killed causing conservatives to riot and kill?

 

[iluvatar5150]

Was Cliven Bundy a black conservative who was killed causing conservatives to riot and kill?

No, Cliven Bundy is a white conservative whose followers/fans only barely escaped inciting a massacre because the police decided to back down instead of asserting their right to be doing what they were doing. (score one for the 2A arguments, I suppose)

One of his associates, however, was killed in a shootout with federal agents in the aftermath of their standoff in Oregon.

 

[grasping the after wind]

No, Cliven Bundy is a white conservative whose followers/fans only barely escaped inciting a massacre because the police decided to back down instead of asserting their right to be doing what they were doing. (score one for the 2A arguments, I suppose)

One of his associates, however, was killed in a shootout with federal agents in the aftermath of their standoff in Oregon.

A person you have labelled as a white conservative got police to back down from something you considered to be their right. Can't say that I have ever heard of there being specific rights for the police as a group. Each of them has their individual human rights of course. Later on someone that the person you described as a white conservative was associated with was killed in a standoff that did not then result in conservatives rioting or killing. I see. Obviously when a white person that you are labeling as a conservative is killed by law enforcement conservatives do not riot and kill. Is it that the point you were trying to make? Perhaps you are suggesting that only if the person being killed is a white conservative will conservatives refrain from rioting and killing? Do you think that if it was a black conservative being killed ,which is what the poster you were responding to had posited, there would be conservatives rioting and killing in the streets?

 

[iluvatar5150]

A person you have labelled as a white conservative got police to back down from something you considered to be their right. Can't say that I have ever heard of there being specific rights for the police as a group. Each of them has their individual human rights of course.

The officers/agents had a legal right to be there to seize the cattle as a means of paying a debt that the court ordered Bundy to pay. Bundy supporters threatened those agents with violence if they didn't leave.

Later on someone that the person you described as a white conservative was associated with was killed in a standoff that did not then result in conservatives rioting or killing. I see. Obviously when a white person that you are labeling as a conservative is killed by law enforcement conservatives do not riot and kill. Is it that the point you were trying to make? Perhaps you are suggesting that only if the person being killed is a white conservative will conservatives refrain from rioting and killing? Do you think that if it was a black conservative being killed ,which is what the poster you were responding to had posited, there would be conservatives rioting and killing in the streets?

No, the point I'm trying to make is that conservatives do riot and conservatives do kill. Their protests may manifest themselves somewhat differently than left-wing protests, but there is still violence. Comparison is somewhat challenging because law enforcement tends to be more lassez faire and less heavy-handed with right-wing protests.

 

[grasping the after wind]

The officers/agents had a legal right to be there to seize the cattle as a means of paying a debt that the court ordered Bundy to pay. Bundy supporters threatened those agents with violence if they didn't leave.



No, the point I'm trying to make is that conservatives do riot and conservatives do kill. Their protests may manifest themselves somewhat differently than left-wing protests, but there is still violence. Comparison is somewhat challenging because law enforcement tends to be more lassez faire and less heavy-handed with right-wing protests.

They had legal authority. A power that one has an an agent of the government is not the same thing as a right. The government had the court ordered legal authority to seize Bundy's property as a means of paying Bundy's debts. The agents of that government decided that collecting a debt was not worth lives .Sounds a lot like what has happened in Portland and Seattle i.e. government deciding it would be better to not enforce laws under some circumstances despite having the legal authority to do so.

No, the point I'm trying to make is that conservatives do riot and conservatives do kill. Their protests may manifest themselves somewhat differently than left-wing protests, but there is still violence. Comparison is somewhat challenging because law enforcement tends to be more lassez faire and less heavy-handed with right-wing protests.

Your point was not corroborated by the evidence you presented as no conservative rioted in your example even after the associate of Bundy was shot and killed. You gave no evidence of law enforcement being laissez faire or less heavy handed with right wings protests. You gave no evidence of violence by right wing protests only evidence of violence by a single person you label as a conservative. It may well be true that conservatives riot but you have not given evidence to show that to be the case. I am sure that there are conservatives that kill( how many I have no idea but I suspect the number of conservatives that kill is lower than people of other ideologies. It certainly pales in comparison to the number of those killed by socialists on both the left and right in the 20 th and 21 st centuries.) . Perhaps you have evidence to back up your claims and simply neglected to cite it in the posts you addressed to me?

 

[iluvatar5150]

They had legal authority. A power that one has an an agent of the government is not the same thing as a right. The government had the court ordered legal authority to seize Bundy's property as a means of paying Bundy's debts.

au·thor·i·ty
/əˈTHôrədē/
noun
1.
the power or right to give orders, make decisions, and enforce obedience.​

In this context, "right" and "authority" are synonymous.

The agents of that government decided that collecting a debt was not worth lives .Sounds a lot like what has happened in Portland and Seattle i.e. government deciding it would be better to not enforce laws under some circumstances despite having the legal authority to do so.

There are certainly parallels to be drawn.

Your point was not corroborated by the evidence you presented as no conservative rioted in your example even after the associate of Bundy was shot and killed. You gave no evidence of law enforcement being laissez faire or less heavy handed with right wings protests. You gave no evidence of violence by right wing protests only evidence of violence by a single person you label as a conservative. It may well be true that conservatives riot but you have not given evidence to show that to be the case. I am sure that there are conservatives that kill( how many I have no idea but I suspect the number of conservatives that kill is lower than people of other ideologies. It certainly pales in comparison to the number of those killed by socialists on both the left and right in the 20 th and 21 st centuries.) . Perhaps you have evidence to back up your claims and simply neglected to cite it in the posts you addressed to me?

Why would I have cited any of that in the post addressed to you? I hadn't been addressing you at all until you asked about whether Bundy was a black conservative.

 

[Arc F1]

I see an eagerness to draw distinctions between “conservatives” and white nationalists or “conservatives” and sovereign citizens but no problems with conflating liberals and leftists with antifa and other rioters.

True. We do that. I'm working on it but so far I'm failing.