2024 Republican Presidential Nomination Predictions

[JimR-OCDS]

There have always been cheap policies available that cover catastrophic injuries and diseases such as cancer. Obamacare took those policies away, the government not declares what must go into an insurance policy down to every last detail. It's a classic piece of fascism.

Those cheap policies were junk and people where being dropped by the companies right when they came down with an illness or they had a child with medical issues the company saw as too expensive. They ended up with nothing.

Is there any doubt about the US having the highest bankruptcy rates in the developed world because of medical expenses ?

Obamacare took away the junk policies. However, this was still private insurance. Obamacare was not government healthcare as the right likes to preach. You still had to purchase health insurance through the exchange. The difference now was that instead of being an individual customer, you were part of 50 million people purchasing health insurance and they needed to compete against each other.

That is, if your stated didn't fight against Obamacare as happened in New Hampshire, where my daughter lives. They ended up with only one health insurance company to choose. Here in MA where Obamacare was based on Romneycare, I had seven companies to choose from and I could choose either Bronze, Silver or Gold coverage depending on how much I wanted to spend in premiums.

 

[parousia70]

Those cheap policies were junk and people where being dropped by the companies right when they came down with an illness or they had a child with medical issues the company saw as too expensive. They ended up with nothing.

Is there any doubt about the US having the highest bankruptcy rates in the developed world because of medical expenses ?

Obamacare took away the junk policies. However, this was still private insurance. Obamacare was not government healthcare as the right likes to preach. You still had to purchase health insurance through the exchange. The difference now was that instead of being an individual customer, you were part of 50 million people purchasing health insurance and they needed to compete against each other.

That is, if your stated didn't fight against Obamacare as happened in New Hampshire, where my daughter lives. They ended up with only one health insurance company to choose. Here in MA where Obamacare was based on Romneycare, I had seven companies to choose from and I could choose either Bronze, Silver or Gold coverage depending on how much I wanted to spend in premiums.

I'm still waiting for anyone to rationalize why they believe Health Insurance should be a for profit business at all.

What business does the profit motive have in the health insurance business model? and How does that profit motive contribute to providing a better product, more affordable and with greater choices?

The way they fought against the inclusion of a public option demonstrates to me they know they can't compete with the affordability and attractiveness of a public health insurance option where the profit motive is removed... which is weird because, 1) It's been posited that people dislike government health insurance so much they would never choose it, given the option to do so, so it seems they should have nothing to worry about, and B) I always believed competition is what forces companies to make a better, more appealing, more affordable product, or simply stop producing the inferior, more expensive product when no one buys it any longer.... isn't that supposed to be how market forces work?

If there is one thing to be learned from the pandemic it's that government is completely incompetent at managing anything.

Then no health insurance company should be afraid of competing against a public health insurance option, should they? Weird that they are.

If you want single payer, you're looking at Britian which is a complete disaster.

Not the same.
Great Brittan has complete public health care system. from the insurance to the Doctors - all government employed.
Single Payer here in the US would not be that.

 

[Redwingfan9]

Those cheap policies were junk and people where being dropped by the companies right when they came down with an illness or they had a child with medical issues the company saw as too expensive. They ended up with nothing.

Is there any doubt about the US having the highest bankruptcy rates in the developed world because of medical expenses ?

Obamacare took away the junk policies. However, this was still private insurance. Obamacare was not government healthcare as the right likes to preach. You still had to purchase health insurance through the exchange. The difference now was that instead of being an individual customer, you were part of 50 million people purchasing health insurance and they needed to compete against each other.

That is, if your stated didn't fight against Obamacare as happened in New Hampshire, where my daughter lives. They ended up with only one health insurance company to choose. Here in MA where Obamacare was based on Romneycare, I had seven companies to choose from and I could choose either Bronze, Silver or Gold coverage depending on how much I wanted to spend in premiums.

Obamacare is fascist healthcare. Sure, the private companies can exist but they can only sell policies written by the government at the time the government so allows and at a price dictated by the state. That's the essence of fascism.

The fact is that for people who aren't on the dole, Obamacare made healthcare unaffordable. It created massive up front costs and absurdly high deductibles to go with high up front costs. It's been a massive cost for taxpayers as well.

 

[parousia70]

Obamacare is fascist healthcare. Sure, the private companies can exist but they can only sell policies written by the government at the time the government so allows and at a price dictated by the state. That's the essence of fascism.

The fact is that for people who aren't on the dole, Obamacare made healthcare unaffordable. It created massive up front costs and absurdly high deductibles to go with high up front costs. It's been a massive cost for taxpayers as well.

The removal of the Public option from obamacare was the poison pill.
I'm all for private insurance companies having all those regulations lifted, as long as there is a public option... let them compete freely in a true free market environment with the public option and see how they fare... Should be a slam dunk for the private companies right?

 

[Redwingfan9]

The removal of the Public option from obamacare was the poison pill.
I'm all for private insurance companies having all those regulations lifted, as long as there is a public option... let them compete freely in a true free market environment with the public option and see how they fare... Should be a slam dunk for the private companies right?

Why should taxpayers foot the bill for anyone's healthcare?

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I'm still waiting for anyone to rationalize why they believe Health Insurance should be a for profit business at all.

What business does the profit motive have in the health insurance business model? and How does that profit motive contribute to providing a better product, more affordable and with greater choices?

The way they fought against the inclusion of a public option demonstrates to me they know they can't compete with the affordability and attractiveness of a public health insurance option where the profit motive is removed... which is weird because, 1) It's been posited that people dislike government health insurance so much they would never choose it, given the option to do so, so it seems they should have nothing to worry about, and B) I always believed competition is what forces companies to make a better, more appealing, more affordable product, or simply stop producing the inferior, more expensive product when no one buys it any longer.... isn't that supposed to be how market forces work?



Then no health insurance company should be afraid of competing against a public health insurance option, should they? Weird that they are.



.

I remember the debate before Obamacare was passed and went into effect.

There were two health experts on Bill Moyers who both said that Obamacare would begin to unravel as soon as it was passed. Their claim was that as long as we have a "for profit" healthcare system, run by people with MBA's and no medical experience, it would fail.

They were right.

The very people who demonized Hillarycare when she tried to get it passed, were the same people who advocated for Obamacare. As you know, Hillarycare was a single payer universal healthcare system and the health insurance industry would've become history for the general public.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Obamacare is fascist healthcare. Sure, the private companies can exist but they can only sell policies written by the government at the time the government so allows and at a price dictated by the state. That's the essence of fascism.

The fact is that for people who aren't on the dole, Obamacare made healthcare unaffordable. It created massive up front costs and absurdly high deductibles to go with high up front costs. It's been a massive cost for taxpayers as well.

Nonsense ! Obamacare only came about because the Republicans rejected the universal healthcare system that Hillary Clinton proposed when she was 1st Lady. Obama knew there was no way to get that passed.

BTW, did you know Donald Trump once favored a universal healthcare system ?

Well les see, I'm on the VA healthcare system now and it works great. But I'm also on medicare it works well, but it's still a private for profit health insurance company Tufts Medicare Preferred, that pays for what Medicare doesn't. So, the expensive prescriptions I get through the VA. The others, which lately have had zero co-pay, from my pharmacy and paid for by Tufts.

Elderly people should have to work through the labyrinth of the healthcare industry, but they do. My wife and myself are fortunate enough to handle the system, but as we age and it changes, we'll probably need help if we don't get bilked out of our home and life savings first.

 

[parousia70]

Why should taxpayers foot the bill for anyone's healthcare?

Well, wealready do with Medicare, Medicaid and the VA, and we do it for The same reason taxpayers should foot the bill for everyone’s roads, schools, police, fire, libraries, military, etc.
It makes it cheaper for everyone than having to foot the Bill for your own interstate highway yourself.
Also, a healthy population (same as an educated, safe and mobile population) is in the public interest, serves the common good and promotes the general welfare of all, and is far less expensive to maintain.

Now, why do you believe health insurance should be a for profit business that only can survive if it eliminates competition from a more affordable option?
Where’s the benefit to the end user?

 

[Redwingfan9]

Nonsense ! Obamacare only came about because the Republicans rejected the universal healthcare system that Hillary Clinton proposed when she was 1st Lady. Obama knew there was no way to get that passed.

BTW, did you know Donald Trump once favored a universal healthcare system ?

Well les see, I'm on the VA healthcare system now and it works great. But I'm also on medicare it works well, but it's still a private for profit health insurance company Tufts Medicare Preferred, that pays for what Medicare doesn't. So, the expensive prescriptions I get through the VA. The others, which lately have had zero co-pay, from my pharmacy and paid for by Tufts.

Elderly people should have to work through the labyrinth of the healthcare industry, but they do. My wife and myself are fortunate enough to handle the system, but as we age and it changes, we'll probably need help if we don't get bilked out of our home and life savings first.

I'm not a Trump guy but it surprises me not that he once favored socialist healthcare. He has no real base political philosophy, he's been all over the place for 40 years.

As for the VA, it's consistently rated among the worst government programs with veterans endlessly complaining about poor service. That's no surprise, service always drops when the free market is taken out of an industry (see education as another example).

 

[Redwingfan9]

Well, wealready do with Medicare, Medicaid and the VA, and we do it for The same reason taxpayers should foot the bill for everyone’s roads, schools, police, fire, libraries, military, etc.
It makes it cheaper for everyone than having to foot the Bill for your own interstate highway yourself.
Also, a healthy population (same as an educated, safe and mobile population) is in the public interest, serves the common good and promotes the general welfare of all, and is far less expensive to maintain.

Now, why do you believe health insurance should be a for profit business that only can survive if it eliminates competition from a more affordable option?
Where’s the benefit to the end user?

The government has no place taxing people to pay for their health. That is not the role given to government by God, it's certainly not a role given it by the Constitution.

The only way we will have good healthcare is if is severed from the state. So long as it gets money from the state and is regulated to the absurd degree it is right now the quality of healthcare will continue to drop. Why would we entrust the state with more power over our health when they can't even competently distribute a vaccine everyone knew was coming months ago?

 

[parousia70]

The government has no place taxing people to pay for their health. That is not the role given to government by God, it's certainly not a role given it by the Constitution.

Just so I understand your baseline, what do you believe government has the role to Levey and collect taxes for? Anything? Nothing?
And why should it have that role?
No government funded schools?

No government funded roads? No government funded police or fire departments? No government funded military? Why not get government out of the way of all these things if private for-profit industry always does a better job at everything?

You might like the idea of paying a for profit road company a fresh toll every few blocks as you choose to drive to the store, I happen to think it’s cheaper and more efficient not to have to do that.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Why should taxpayers foot the bill for anyone's healthcare?

It's for their own healthcare too.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I'm not a Trump guy but it surprises me not that he once favored socialist healthcare. He has no real base political philosophy, he's been all over the place for 40 years.

As for the VA, it's consistently rated among the worst government programs with veterans endlessly complaining about poor service. That's no surprise, service always drops when the free market is taken out of an industry (see education as another example).

That depends on where you live.

My father was taken care of by the VA from 1965 until 2009 when he died. If not for the VA, my family would've lost the house he built, which had no mortgage on it, but the VA pension he received saved us. It was not service connected pension, but just a little to add onto Social Security Disability. My guess is that you hate that as well.

I get healthcare from the VA as well as my brother. They're about as good as the private healthcare system, but I only get prescription drugs and I did get hearing aids and glasses from the VA. Big savings and the clinics have been excellent. My brother had a couple of problems with the VA pharmacy, but it worked out in the end.

 

[Redwingfan9]

Just so I understand your baseline, what do you believe government has the role to Levey and collect taxes for? Anything? Nothing?
And why should it have that role?
No government funded schools? No government funded roads? No government funded police or fire departments? No government funded military? Why not get government out of the way of all these things if private for-profit industry always does a better job?

God gives to the state the power to enforce his criminal and civil statutes and the power to raise a military for the defense from foreign invasion. This would entail a police and court system and a small military and nothing more. Education, healthcare and the like are all private concerns. You may make an argument for public roads in downtown areas but long distance can easily be achieved with private roads. As for fire departments and ambulances there is no reason this has to be a public issue.

 

[Redwingfan9]

That depends on where you live.

My father was taken care of by the VA from 1965 until 2009 when he died. If not for the VA, my family would've lost the house he built, which had no mortgage on it, but the VA pension he received saved us. It was not service connected pension, but just a little to add onto Social Security Disability. My guess is that you hate that as well.

I get healthcare from the VA as well as my brother. They're about as good as the private healthcare system, but I only get prescription drugs and I did get hearing aids and glasses from the VA. Big savings and the clinics have been excellent. My brother had a couple of problems with the VA pharmacy, but it worked out in the end.

Social Security is a boondoggle and promises of free education, healthcare and pensions only make it easier for the government to recruit a mercenary military from which it can engage in unnecessary foreign adventures that cost taxpayers trillions.

 

[parousia70]

God gives to the state the power to enforce his criminal and civil statutes and the power to raise a military for the defense from foreign invasion. This would entail a police and court system and a small military and nothing more. Education, healthcare and the like are all private concerns. You may make an argument for public roads in downtown areas but long distance can easily be achieved with private roads. As for fire departments and ambulances there is no reason this has to be a public issue.

Where does God grant the power of self governance? I see where God grants the power of governance to Kings, but I don’t see where God grants the power of self governance anywhere like we have here in the United States.

 

[Redwingfan9]

Where does God grant the power of self governance? I see where God grants the power of governance to Kings, but I don’t see where God grants the power of self governance anywhere like we have here in the United States.

I don't think there is any Biblical basis to claim that modern republics are the one and only proper form of government. We do see in scripture Israel ruled by both King and by representatives of families. I personally prefer a monarchy but whenever I hear politicans go off about perceived threats to democracy (nearly always based on political views tbe speaker doesn't like) I can't help but wonder when democracy because sacrosanct such that it can never be questioned.

 

[parousia70]

I don't think there is any Biblical basis to claim that modern republics are the one and only proper form of government. We do see in scripture Israel ruled by both King and by representatives of families. I personally prefer a monarchy but whenever I hear politicans go off about perceived threats to democracy (nearly always based on political views tbe speaker doesn't like) I can't help but wonder when democracy because sacrosanct such that it can never be questioned.

Interesting... why do you prefer a Monarchy? Do you believe a Monarchy is the best form of government when it comes to insuring individual's God given Rights are protected and defended?
How so? Can you point to any examples from History that show this to be true?

In contrast, I believe the American experiment of Self Governance has demonstrated to be far and away the best alternative to any other form ever used.
It is the truest reflection of the ideals that we are all created equals in the image of God, with certain unalienable rights bestowed to us by Him, and that the American experiment of self governance has proven, historically, to be the best option that preserves, protects and defends those rights.
We have replaced the law of force, that all other forms of government rely on to "govern" their citizens, with the force of law.

We have chosen to settle our disputes (well, between the end of the civil war and Jan 6, 2021 we did anyway) on the debate floor instead of the battlefield.

We've decided that Might does not make right, and that the meek should have the same voice as the powerful, and the powerful should not get their way simply because they have bigger guns.
I understand that you are against this particular paradigm of self governance and the abandonment of violence to solve internal disputes, I just don't understand why you would be.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Social Security is a boondoggle and promises of free education, healthcare and pensions only make it easier for the government to recruit a mercenary military from which it can engage in unnecessary foreign adventures that cost taxpayers trillions.

If not for Social Security and the VA, my family would've lost our home when my father became paralyzed. My mother had 4 kids at home under the age of 16 and one in the Army on his way to Vietnam. Ted Kennedy got him home to help the family out.

Social Security is a life saver

I'm retired now and getting my social security retirement benefit. This must upset you !

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I don't think there is any Biblical basis to claim that modern republics are the one and only proper form of government. We do see in scripture Israel ruled by both King and by representatives of families. I personally prefer a monarchy but whenever I hear politicans go off about perceived threats to democracy (nearly always based on political views tbe speaker doesn't like) I can't help but wonder when democracy because sacrosanct such that it can never be questioned.

Hamilton preferred a monarchy too. Thank God Jefferson squashed that idea !