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2019 was a rocky year for superheroes — until 'Watchmen' raised the bar for the genre

Discussion in 'News & Current Events' started by SummerMadness, Dec 2, 2019 at 1:43 AM.

  1. SummerMadness

    SummerMadness Senior Veteran

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    2019 was a rocky year for superheroes — until 'Watchmen' raised the bar for the genre
    An amazing series.
     
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  2. Ana the Ist

    Ana the Ist Aggressively serene!

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  3. Ironhold

    Ironhold Member

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    All I'm hearing about "Watchmen" is people getting mad because of the significant liberties it's taking with the source material.


    For example, the original 1980s comics had it that Hooded Justice was white and possibly homosexual. When the McCarthy Hearings (et al) started and a number of masked supers were ordered to appear before Congress and unmask, Hooded Justice responded by calling it quits as a hero rather than appear, and soon dropped out of sight entirely.

    In the autobiography written by Night Owl I, it's noted that right after Hooded Justice disappeared, the body of a famous circus strongman was found washed up on a beach, the obvious cause of death being a bullet to the head. Given that the strongman

    1. Had the same build and physical features as Hooded Justice

    2. Was an immigrant from a region in Germany that was at the time under Soviet control

    People came to hypothesize that the strongman *was* Hooded Justice and that he either killed himself in response to his being forced to abandon his quest as a super or was a Soviet spy who was murdered by his handler(s) for being useless to them.

    (In contrast, as Night Owl I was a police officer with a spotless record, there was nothing anyone could pin on him.)

    Compare that to how Hooded Justice is being portrayed in the series.
     
  4. SummerMadness

    SummerMadness Senior Veteran

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    Everything in the series aligns with Hooded Justice's portrayal in the graphic novel. The hypothesis that he was a German strongman was false, in the comic series. He was suspected, but the comic said he was not Rolf Müller. Quite simply, Hooded Justice disappeared and they never found out who he was until this series, which kept everything consistent.
     
  5. mala

    mala fluffy lion

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    The follow up material concerning hooded justice was not written by Moore or Gibson so calling it original material is not really true. Especially considering Moore's stance on it.
    Also going by those sources it's never revealed who the hooded justice actually is considering it was the comedian who setup the hooded justice and the entire german strongman event was a fake.
     
  6. Yttrium

    Yttrium Active Member

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    Why is this a "rocky" year for superheroes? Seems very good to me.
     
  7. Ana the Ist

    Ana the Ist Aggressively serene!

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    Agreed....there was the usual hits and misses....but overall it's been a good year for the genre.
     
  8. durangodawood

    durangodawood Dis Member

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    A good year for the genre is when there are none.

    (he said curmudgeonly)
     
  9. SummerMadness

    SummerMadness Senior Veteran

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    Shazam!, Brightburn, Hellboy, Dark Phoenix, Glass, all movies that didn't do well. Other like Joker and Captain Marvel made a lot of money, one was not as widely critically acclaimed, the other inspired an incel hate campaign (although they both made over $1 billion). You also have to factor in cancelled series like Cloak & Dagger, The Gifted, and Krypton (to name a few). It's been a rocky year with more misses than hits; you also have the recent controversy with some actors and directors attacking superhero films saying they are not cinema.

    Watchmen managed to come on the scene and prevent something fresh, particularly capturing the serious and deconstructionist tone of the original graphic novel in the 1980s.
     
  10. Ana the Ist

    Ana the Ist Aggressively serene!

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    Yeesh lol.
     
  11. Goonie

    Goonie Not so Mystic Mog. Supporter

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    Erm.. Shazam took over 350 million on a 100 million budget, that is not a flop. Brightburn 32 million on less a 6 - 12 million budget, not blockbusters but not a flop.

    I agree there have been turkeys, but tripling you’re budget is not a flop.
     
  12. Ana the Ist

    Ana the Ist Aggressively serene!

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    Shazam! did 360+ million at the box office...for a movie no one really wanted, it did quite well.

    Dark Phoenix was pretty awful...arguably because it was really preachy and not entertaining.

    I think The Boys did a better job deconstructing the superhero genre...while remaining fun to watch.
     
  13. Ana the Ist

    Ana the Ist Aggressively serene!

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    Don't forget Spiderman...also did quite well.

    Edit- Also Avengers....huge success. It's a weird argument that this has been a bad year for the genre.
     
  14. Goonie

    Goonie Not so Mystic Mog. Supporter

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    There was this little movie called avengers End Game, I here it did well as well:)

    but apart from all that What have the Romans ever done for us.
     
  15. Ana the Ist

    Ana the Ist Aggressively serene!

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    Looking at the takeaway....even Glass did around 250$ million on a 20$ million budget.
     
  16. Yttrium

    Yttrium Active Member

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    Yeah, I'm not buying it. Shazam did quite well, and you left out Avengers: Endgame. Oh, and the Arrowverse shows are still going strong.
     
  17. SummerMadness

    SummerMadness Senior Veteran

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    $350 million in 45 markets isn't great either. It's not a matter of whether a profit was made, but how much legs a movie has. Shazam! made money, but it didn't have much legs. Justice League was also profitable, but compared to other superhero movies, there's a reason why Warner Bros appears to be lost compared to Marvel. It's more than the money, it's also how it's received by he audience. Joker was received well, Brightburn was not.

    Endgame... more misses than hits, still applies. The Arrowverse is an established series, not a series that did not survive past its second or third season, of course it will still be ongoing.
     
  18. Ana the Ist

    Ana the Ist Aggressively serene!

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    By that metric both Captain Marvel and Watchmen are failures....with audience scores of 51% and 43% respectively. They failed to connect with the audience.

    They lack legs.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2019 at 8:35 PM
  19. SummerMadness

    SummerMadness Senior Veteran

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    Some perspective, superhero movies Top 20 in worldwide box office for the last four years. We also need to consider TV series that have been canceled, including upcoming projects that have been canceled or delayed. Another thing mentioned less is how many markets is the movie released in because making $100 million in 50 markets versus $100 million in 10 markets is quite different (releasing in more markets obviously costs more). 2019 has not been a great year overall, one or two movies doing well doesn't mean most are doing well.

    2019
    1. Avengers: Endgame
    3. Spider-Man: Far from Home
    4. Captain Marvel
    7. Joker

    2018
    1. Avengers: Infinity War
    2. Black Panther
    5. Aquaman
    7. Venom
    9. Deadpool 2
    11. Ant-Man and the Wasp

    2017
    6. Spider-Man: Homecoming
    8. Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2
    9. Thor: Ragnarok
    10. Wonder Woman
    14. Justice League
    15. Logan

    2016
    1. Captain America: Civil War
    8. Deadpool
    9. Suicide Squad
    10. Doctor Strange
    14. X-Men: Apocalypse

    Nonetheless, this season of Watchmen has been critically acclaimed by reviewers and the audience. That's not necessarily rare, but for a story with this level of complexity and seriousness, that is important. While difficult to really compare, the TV series has more interest than the Snyder film from 10 years ago.
     
  20. Ana the Ist

    Ana the Ist Aggressively serene!

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    Watchmen

    Average audience score....45%.

    Watchmen (2019)

    Average audience score....5.8/10.

    I think it's safe to say it's not critically acclaimed by audiences. It's literally shedding viewers every week. Why do you think they wrote that cushy article full of praise in the OP.

    I don't think "white people = racist and evil" is either complex or challenging. I think it's low hanging fruit for praise from a particular audience these days.
     
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