20 major reasons to reject the Premillennial doctrine

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sovereigngrace

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Verse 9 says Land, not heaven. The city God loves is Jerusalem. This is physical reality on earth not symbolic of heaven. John would have claimed Satan was coming against the New Jerusalem. The fire came down from heaven. They were on the earth.

Ok, so you have no Scripture. This is called adding to Scripture- something forbidden in the Bible.

God loves all nations, kindreds and peoples equally. He shows no racial favoritism. You need to move into the NT. Salvation is about grace not race.
 
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sovereigngrace

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I never claimed to speak on their behalf. Revelation is pre-mill, because the Second Coming happens so Christ can be on the earth to reign. Christ comes to physical earth and reigns on physical earth. It is the second time, because the first time was 1990 years ago and it has not happened yet. To physically reign on earth, Christ has to physically come to accomplish that task. Since the previous chapters leading up to chapter 20, has Christ coming to earth, that is when it happens and the start. Changing Revelation around to suit one's needs is not reading the text as written. It is rewriting the text in one's own opinion.

Where in Rev 20 does it say "Christ comes to the physical earth and reigns on the physical earth"?
 
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Timtofly

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Ok, so you have no Scripture. This is called adding to Scripture- something forbidden in the Bible.

God loves all nations, kindreds and peoples equally. He shows no racial favoritism. You need to move into the NT. Salvation is about grace not race.
See, you just change the subject when I give the Scripture and then you wonder why I stop. You make demands and then reject the Word of God.
 
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Timtofly

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Where in Rev 20 does it say "Christ comes to the physical earth and reigns on the physical earth"?
Where in Revelation does it say Jesus leaves the earth? So the Second Coming is not Jesus Christ coming to earth? Then you deny the Second Coming as well.
 
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sovereigngrace

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See, you just change the subject when I give the Scripture and then you wonder why I stop. You make demands and then reject the Word of God.

Please stop avoiding the issue. Where is Jerusalem mentioned in Rev 20?
 
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sovereigngrace

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Verse 9 says Land, not heaven. The city God loves is Jerusalem. This is physical reality on earth not symbolic of heaven. John would have claimed Satan was coming against the New Jerusalem. The fire came down from heaven. They were on the earth.

Earthly carnal Jerusalem has rejected and killed Christ, the prophets and the Apostles. It is denounced under the new covenant by the Holy Spirit as “spiritually … called Sodom and Egypt” (Revelation 11:8) and is further condemned as being “in bondage with her children” in Galatians 4:25. The Jerusalem that God loves is the heavenly city, which we belong to today, which is “free.” This is the only city that God is preparing! It is unbiblical and nonsensical to believe that he is preparing earthly Jerusalem for the saints. The new Jerusalem is being prepared in heaven, as we can see through many Scriptures.
 
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sovereigngrace

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Where in Revelation does it say Jesus leaves the earth? So the Second Coming is not Jesus Christ coming to earth? Then you deny the Second Coming as well.

There you go again. Because you have no Scripture for your beliefs you are forced to answer every question with a question. That is always a sign of an extra-biblical position. You are totally out of your depth in this discussion.

The problems here for you and your doctrine are many.

(1) You mistakenly place Rev 20 after the second coming when it in facts relates to the intra-Advent period.
(2) There is no mention of Jesus on earth (as your avoidance of evidence has confirmed) in Rev 20.
(3) There is no mention of physical Jerusalem in Rev 20 (as your avoidance of evidence has confirmed).
(4) You have zero proof-texts or corroboration for your assertions. Like Pretrib, Premil is based on man's teaching not hard scriptural truth.
 
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sovereigngrace

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I never claimed to speak on their behalf. Revelation is pre-mill, because the Second Coming happens so Christ can be on the earth to reign. Christ comes to physical earth and reigns on physical earth. It is the second time, because the first time was 1990 years ago and it has not happened yet. To physically reign on earth, Christ has to physically come to accomplish that task. Since the previous chapters leading up to chapter 20, has Christ coming to earth, that is when it happens and the start. Changing Revelation around to suit one's needs is not reading the text as written. It is rewriting the text in one's own opinion.

Your teachers have taught you wrong. Your failure to show this in Scripture shows that you are bereft of biblical warrant for your theory.
 
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Timtofly

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Earthly carnal Jerusalem has rejected and killed Christ, the prophets and the Apostles. It is denounced under the new covenant by the Holy Spirit as “spiritually … called Sodom and Egypt” (Revelation 11:8) and is further condemned as being “in bondage with her children” in Galatians 4:25. The Jerusalem that God loves is the heavenly city, which we belong to today, which is “free.” This is the only city that God is preparing! It is unbiblical and nonsensical to believe that he is preparing earthly Jerusalem for the saints. The new Jerusalem is being prepared in heaven, as we can see through many Scriptures.
We are not talking about carnal Jerusalem, so stop pretending such nonsense.

So Satan is going to march against New Jerusalem? Now you are in need of some serious Scripture to back up that claim.

When you switch topics and go all figurative on yourself, you seem to run into many contradictory thoughts. Revelation 20 has nothing to do with heaven, saints, Hebrews 11, New Jerusalem, NHNE, the bride of Christ, the body of Christ, the church, the Church, the last 1990 years, nor the battle of Armageddon. So adding these in symbolically goes against John's warning to not mess with the Book.

You can not claim symbolism and turn your symbolic ideology into your own set of parameters. That is not how the book of Revelation works. Not even how it is to be interpreted. If John gives no symbolic terms like the Day of The Lord, one has to conclude 1000 years is simply 1000 years. Ruling and reigning is simply ruling and reigning. Land is simply Land. The city that God loves is simply the city that God loves. It is part of the Land. And shall go out to deceive the people, which are in the four quarters of the earth, simply means to decieve the people which are in the four quarters of the earth.

No guess work involved and no need to set up a scenario that is your own symbolism to make your own symbolism say anything you think is reasonable theology.
 
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Timtofly

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There you go again. Because you have no Scripture for your beliefs you are forced to answer every question with a question. That is always a sign of an extra-biblical position. You are totally out of your depth in this discussion.

The problems here for you and your doctrine are many.

(1) You mistakenly place Rev 20 after the second coming when it in facts relates to the intra-Advent period.
(2) There is no mention of Jesus on earth (as your avoidance of evidence has confirmed) in Rev 20.
(3) There is no mention of physical Jerusalem in Rev 20 (as your avoidance of evidence has confirmed).
(4) You have zero proof-texts or corroboration for your assertions. Like Pretrib, Premil is based on man's teaching not hard scriptural truth.
Your human theology is just human theology and not God's Word. You have a weird reading comprehension of Revelation 20, if you hold to any of those points.

What verse states Revelation 20 is the intra advent period?

Yes Revelation 20 mentions Christ reigning on earth. You take God’s Word and symbolise the text.

The city on earth that God loves is what if it is not Jerusalem. Give me the name of a city on earth that those on earth can march against with feet, not an air plane to heaven.

2 Peter 3:8 is the proof text for the whole Bible on what the type of Day with the Lord entails.

Your point 1 contradicts your point 3. If 1 is now, the New Jerusalem is on earth to be marched against now.

If New Jerusalem is in Revelation 20, then it cannot be the intra advent period. It would have to be after the Second Coming even by your own standards of earth being destroyed. You have Satan in the NHNE marching against New Jerusalem after he is supposed to be in the lake of fire.
 
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Timtofly

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Your teachers have taught you wrong. Your failure to show this in Scripture shows that you are bereft of biblical warrant for your theory.
The Second Coming is the 6th Seal. Read Revelation 6 without any theological mindset. Pretend you are a frightened human sitting on your back porch when the 6th seal is opened. How long will you just sit there? How long will you sit there spiritually at the least, if you think spirituallizing it will help any? Then what literally will you physically do? If all can see God on the throne and His face, and one can see the Lamb. And the mighty Angels descend from heaven like the stars falling as fig leaves, the sky is rolled back, just like Matthew 25 says, why would you just sit on your back porch and ignore it like it was not happening? Is this the battle of Armageddon event?
 
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BABerean2

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Pretend you are a frightened human sitting on your back porch when the 6th seal is opened.


The seals were opened by Christ during the first century, and then John recorded what he saw when the seal was opened.


Rev 6:3 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.


Your Bible says the same thing.


.
 
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sovereigngrace

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I already quoted it.

Your failure to provide any mention of Jerusalem in Rev 20 (while insisting on the opposite) shows the error of your doctrine and how you have no conviction in presenting untruths. This totally discredits all your claims.
 
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sovereigngrace

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The Second Coming is the 6th Seal. Read Revelation 6 without any theological mindset. Pretend you are a frightened human sitting on your back porch when the 6th seal is opened. How long will you just sit there? How long will you sit there spiritually at the least, if you think spirituallizing it will help any? Then what literally will you physically do? If all can see God on the throne and His face, and one can see the Lamb. And the mighty Angels descend from heaven like the stars falling as fig leaves, the sky is rolled back, just like Matthew 25 says, why would you just sit on your back porch and ignore it like it was not happening? Is this the battle of Armageddon event?

Again, your fight is with Scripture, not Amils. The 6th seal is climactic. You have to ignore the detail described in order to force your meaning. This is the end. This correlates with multiple Scriptures that show a climactic return of Christ. This also demolishes the chronological approach and with it Premil. The sixth seal totally demolishers the Premillennial scheme. It shows the conflagration and the destruction of all the wicked. This relays the Amil position.

Revelation 6:12-17 says, “And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; and the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?”

No one shall stand! This is total destruction! There are no survivors! This Holy Spirit then asks a question: "who shall be able to stand?” This of course is a rhetorical question: meaning the answer is obvious. No one! This is total destruction - for those left behind. There are no survivors!

This is taken from Isaiah 34:1-4, 8: “Come near, ye nations, to hear; and hearken, ye people: let the earth hear, and all that is therein; the world, and all things that come forth of it. For the indignation of the LORD is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter. Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood. And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree For it is the day of the LORD's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.”

This is total destruction - for those left behind. This is the end of the world and the wicked. The whole description indicates that the decaying heavens (outer space) we know now will be no more. The current universe and stars are all going to be changed when Jesus comes. Christ will be the eternal light on the new earth!
 
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Your human theology is just human theology and not God's Word. You have a weird reading comprehension of Revelation 20, if you hold to any of those points.

What verse states Revelation 20 is the intra advent period?

Yes Revelation 20 mentions Christ reigning on earth. You take God’s Word and symbolise the text.

The city on earth that God loves is what if it is not Jerusalem. Give me the name of a city on earth that those on earth can march against with feet, not an air plane to heaven.

2 Peter 3:8 is the proof text for the whole Bible on what the type of Day with the Lord entails.

Your point 1 contradicts your point 3. If 1 is now, the New Jerusalem is on earth to be marched against now.

If New Jerusalem is in Revelation 20, then it cannot be the intra advent period. It would have to be after the Second Coming even by your own standards of earth being destroyed. You have Satan in the NHNE marching against New Jerusalem after he is supposed to be in the lake of fire.

Just because you keeping repeating the error and avoiding furnishing us with hard evidence doesn't advance your position it decimates. Your beliefs are clearly extra-biblical.
 
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Timtofly

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The seals were opened by Christ during the first century, and then John recorded what he saw when the seal was opened.

Rev 6:3 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.

Your Bible says the same thing.
Sorry not a preterist....
 
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Timtofly

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Your failure to provide any mention of Jerusalem in Rev 20 (while insisting on the opposite) shows the error of your doctrine and how you have no conviction in presenting untruths. This totally discredits all your claims.
And your refusal to acknowledge God's Word puts you in a worse position than I am. You accuse me falsly and never proved the city that God loves on earth is not Jerusalem.
 
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Timtofly

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Please read the text. Satan surrounds the camp of the saints (the people of God) not natural Christ-rejecting Jerusalem as you claim. You have become so accustomed with presenting what you have been taught you fail to see that there is no biblical source for your theories.

You are fixated with Rev 20 and yet even it doesn't teach what you imagine. Because of this you have nothing to support your theories.

I see you still refuse to show us in Rev 20 where Jesus is on earth. That is because it doesn't exist. All your avoidance and failure to provide hard evidence reveals that your teaching is man-made and false.
I am just reading the text, not interpreting the text to say anything else. You are claiming the four corners of the earth and the Land is something other than earth, even though earth means earth. Since you did not post the same verses, you are avoiding them.
 
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Again, your fight is with Scripture, not Amils. The 6th seal is climactic. You have to ignore the detail described in order to force your meaning. This is the end. This correlates with multiple Scriptures that show a climactic return of Christ. This also demolishes the chronological approach and with it Premil. The sixth seal totally demolishers the Premillennial scheme. It shows the conflagration and the destruction of all the wicked. This relays the Amil position.

Revelation 6:12-17 says, “And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; and the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?”

No one shall stand! This is total destruction! There are no survivors! This Holy Spirit then asks a question: "who shall be able to stand?” This of course is a rhetorical question: meaning the answer is obvious. No one! This is total destruction - for those left behind. There are no survivors!

This is taken from Isaiah 34:1-4, 8: “Come near, ye nations, to hear; and hearken, ye people: let the earth hear, and all that is therein; the world, and all things that come forth of it. For the indignation of the LORD is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter. Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood. And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree For it is the day of the LORD's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.”

This is total destruction - for those left behind. This is the end of the world and the wicked. The whole description indicates that the decaying heavens (outer space) we know now will be no more. The current universe and stars are all going to be changed when Jesus comes. Christ will be the eternal light on the new earth!
You can give your private interpretation and still not prove your point. The Second Coming will change a lot of things. It is still not the end, and your private interpretation is twisting God’s Word to fit your theology. No one is stated as killed in those verses, so that is your private interpretation, not God’s Word. It says 25% of humanity dies in the 4th seal. Are you going to say that is just figurative and no one dies, yet turn around and claim all die when God’s Word does not mention death at all?
 
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