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Featured 20 major reasons to reject the Premillennial doctrine

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by sovereigngrace, May 15, 2020.

  1. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    I have no idea the theology behind pre-mill. All I know is that there is the Lord's Day, and it starts at the Second Coming. Except the final harvest is the end of the church, and there is overlap like the first coming. Jesus Christ spent about 3.5 years between the thing we call the OT and the Cross. The Second Coming is a repeat of the first coming, except between the time of the earthly church and the Lord's Day.

    The rest is just common sense, based on Scriptural truth. Adam's sin and death ends at the 7th Trumpet. Satan as the accuser of the brethren night and day ends at the 7th Trumpet. The 7th Trumpet is the 8 day week at the end of the Lamb's time on earth, like the 8 day week from Palm Sunday to the Resurrection was the triumph end of the Lamb's first coming.

    If you read the account of Joshua and Jericho, it was also an 8 day event marking the "end of the Nations" and the setting up of Israel. The book of Revelation parallels the time of the Nations, Israel, and the church except in reverse order. Jesus claims the first shall be last and the last will be first. The church came last, and will leave first (the Seals). Then the sheep of Israel (the Trumpets). Then the wheat of the Nations (the Thunders). This is the final harvest Jesus explained in parable form at the first Coming.

    The Second Coming is the end of all things related to Adam. How long and when, NO ONE KNOWS. It is very soon though. Claiming it ends in the first 30 seconds is knowing the length, which no one can know. It does not happen with total annihilation in the first 30 seconds of the Lord's Day. That is why God let John write what John witnessed and place it into the cannon in the first century. Even Revelation 20 cannot happen until after the Second Coming. John would have placed it as the 4th chapter, not the 20th. Placing things out of John's chronology can only lead to confusion.
     
  2. sovereigngrace

    sovereigngrace Well-Known Member

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    You are adding 2+2 and getting 22 again. This is all your own beliefs. The Scripture does not teach what you continually present.

    How can you say you do not believe Premil when you do not know what they teach? This is exactly what you do with Amil. Your ignorance of both causes you to continually hurl false charges against them.

    I would advise you to take time out and actually study Amil before engaging with Amils or listen instead of lecturing Amils what you mistakenly think they believe. You are only showing that you are way out of your depth theologically.
     
  3. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    Stop putting them up and I will eventually forget them.
     
  4. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    And you accuse me of misrepresenting.

    So the only reason you post is to make pre-mill look bad? That is what you accuse me of doing. I am not obsessed with Revelation 20, but that is all you are obsessed with in correcting pre-mill over and over, how they are wrong. All human theology is wrong!! Only God's Word as written is the Truth.

    Why would I want tons of bad theology in my head? That is nonsense.
     
  5. sovereigngrace

    sovereigngrace Well-Known Member

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    Amils are here to present truth and challenge error. It is not hard to work that out. Every post you present is full of misrepresentations of Amil. It could be that you are just totally ignorant of Amil, I acknowledge. I am still trying to work out which it is.
     
  6. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    This thread does not present the truth. Only 3 of you points has a scripture referenced. 17 of these points are your own opinion, and not God's Word at all. None of them give an Amil alternate view. So challenging error with your own personal error is called what if it is not the exact same thing you accuse me of doing?

    All 20 of these misrepresent God's Pre-mill chapter. Revelation 20 is God's Word and you found 20 ways to disrespect God's Word. If you are pointing out the theological error of some humans, you picked the wrong poster to reply to. If I cannot defend God's Word, then I will have to answer to God. So yes, I defend the fact Revelation 20 follows Revelation 19, and the battle of Armageddon. I defend the fact it is a Day with the Lord, and is 1000 years. These are the only two points any one seems to grasp as correct. Some deny God's written Word, some accept Revelation 20 as written.
     
  7. Spiritual Jew

    Spiritual Jew Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Amils accept Revelation 20 as written. We just interpret what is written differently than you. To claim that someone else is denying God's written Word is to claim that they are saying God's written word is not true. That is a false accusation. We all believe His Word is true, as written. We just don't always interpret it the same.
     
  8. sovereigngrace

    sovereigngrace Well-Known Member

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    You are not addressing these theological holes in your doctrine. That is because they are watertight. What has been the response from Premils? They have no biblical justification.
     
  9. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    Your opinion is hardly an airtight case.
     
  10. sovereigngrace

    sovereigngrace Well-Known Member

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    Facts are stubborn things. I think you realize that. That is why you have no rebuttal and must misrepresent Amil to sustain your position.
     
  11. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    So Christ ruling in a physical Jerusalem for 1000 years is an Amil, as written, interpretation? Those resurrected from being beheaded for not taking the mark and reigning with Christ on earth in Jerusalem, as written, is an Amil interpretation?
     
  12. Spiritual Jew

    Spiritual Jew Well-Known Member Supporter

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    No, it isn't, because that isn't what is written. Where does it say He rules in a physical Jerusalem for 1000 years?

    No, it isn't, because that isn't what is written. John saw the souls of those who were beheaded and of those who refused to worship the beast or take its mark. It never says that he sees their resurrected bodies.
     
  13. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    Um, your points misrepresent pre-mill. 17 of those points are nonsense. Pre-mill theology does not get Revelation 20 correct if your points make any sense.
     
  14. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    Satan comes against physical Jerusalem at the end of the 1000 because that is where Christ and these resurrected bodies are.

    "They came to life and ruled with the Messiah for a thousand years."

    So they do not have bodies? It claims they are resurrected, judged, and given life. If that is not a bodily resurrection, then no bodily resurrection will ever happen. The first resurrection is a type of resurrection. The only type that can give one an incorruptible body.

    "Their number is countless as the sand on the seashore; 9 and they came up over the breadth of the Land and surrounded the camp of God’s people and the city he loves."
     
  15. sovereigngrace

    sovereigngrace Well-Known Member

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    Where does Rev 20 mention "physical Jerusalem"?
     
  16. sovereigngrace

    sovereigngrace Well-Known Member

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    How can you speak on behalf of Premil when you admit you do not know what they believe?
     
  17. jeffweedaman

    jeffweedaman New Member

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    Tim, it is not a bodily resurrection. Jesus said the time is NOW for passing from death to life rather than when he comes again.

    Jn 5
    24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life

    25 Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.


    Quote Tim to fly
    If that is not a bodily resurrection, then no bodily resurrection will ever happen.
    End quote


    Jesus goes on to say in the following verses when the bodily resurrection takes place...,

    26 For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself; 27 and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man.

    28 Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, 29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

    This happens when the the judgment is to take place, not NOW.
    We are NOW seated in the heavenly realms through believing, but we will only inherit the Kingdom when we are bodily resurrected at the end of the age.

    If you are in him you have life NOW and will not suffer the judgment to come. That judgment cannot hurt you because you have already passed from death into life. The second death cannot hurt you.



    Rev 20
    6 Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

    Can you see that we already have this assurance of not coming into judgment without being raised physically?
     
  18. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    Verse 9 says Land, not heaven. The city God loves is Jerusalem. This is physical reality on earth not symbolic of heaven. John would have claimed Satan was coming against the New Jerusalem. The fire came down from heaven. They were on the earth.
     
  19. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    I never claimed to speak on their behalf. Revelation is pre-mill, because the Second Coming happens so Christ can be on the earth to reign. Christ comes to physical earth and reigns on physical earth. It is the second time, because the first time was 1990 years ago and it has not happened yet. To physically reign on earth, Christ has to physically come to accomplish that task. Since the previous chapters leading up to chapter 20, has Christ coming to earth, that is when it happens and the start. Changing Revelation around to suit one's needs is not reading the text as written. It is rewriting the text in one's own opinion.
     
  20. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    The first resurrection is a type of resurrection, not the "when resurrections happen". The first death is bodily, the first resurrection is bodily. The second death is spirit, and there is no second resurrection of the spirit.

    Jesus called Lazarus out of the tomb with his voice. That already has happened and happened again at the Cross. It happens non-stop until God says it no longer happens.

    Our assurance happened one time in April of 30AD on the 14th of Nisan. We do not need any more added assurance.
     
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