20 major reasons to reject the Premillennial doctrine

[sovereigngrace]

Those sin offerings never did anything but look towards the cross. They never saved anyone, but were a `teaching tool,` of God`s to show the reality of needing a blood sacrifice for sin.

Now that the Lord has given Himself a sacrifice for us we accept that for our substitute. However, WE are NOT the centre of God`s purposes - Christ is. Christ has more groups than just us. We are a heavenly nation, whereas Israel is an earthly nation.

Thus when the Lord comes and delivers Israel from their enemies, then He will pour out upon them the spirit of grace, (Zech. 12: 10) and those people will recognise Him. They will mourn and later celebrate their deliverance. Then comes the time that God has been preparing for that Israel will rule over the nations of the world as He desires. The nations (sheep) are given the opportunity to learn of God`s ways without Satan and his fallen angels interfering.

God had great purposes - heavenly and earthly.

You seem to want it all tidied up quick smart, whereas God is long suffering not willing that any perish. The sacrifices in the time to Israel ruling the nations will also be a `teaching tool` by God to show the people the need of a blood sacrifice and how it was fulfilled by Christ.

You are trying to imagine people on earth after we have gone, and you seem to think that they have the same benefits as we do. No other group is made like Christ with His divine nature or will have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Others will only have the laws of God on their heart for they are an earthly people.

Let us appreciate all the blessing we have in Christ as the Body of Christ.

Is the cross not enough for you? Was it not satisfactory enough? Was it not efficacious enough? Was it not eternal enough? Why would you promote rival sin offerings in the future?

Instead of just repeating what you’ve been taught, check out what the old testament teaches. The old covenant sacrifices atoned for the sins of Israel. They covered Israel’s guilt, albeit on a temporary basis.

These sacrifices have been abolished forever. They will never again be instituted or blessed by God. The cross did away with them forever.

Hebrews 7:27 says of Christ and His final atonement, “Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.”

Hebrews 9:28 explains that "Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many.”

Hebrews 10:10 says, “we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.”

Hebrews 10:12 says, “this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God.”

Hebrews 10:14 says, “For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.”

Romans 6:10 says, “he died unto sin once.”

1 Peter 3:18 says, “For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit.”

Hebrews 9:12 explains, “by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.”

Christ put and end of sin by this final transaction for sin, thus making an end of sin forever for those who would believe. There will never again be a sacrifice for sin. Christ’s atonement satisfied heaven’s holy demands and ensured that there would never again be another sacrifice/offering for sin carrying God’s blessing

 

[sovereigngrace]

There is no scriptural proof of that. We, the Body of Christ are grafted into the `root` which is Christ. Why would God make an earthly nation full knowing they couldn`t live up to the law and then disbar them. No that is nonsense.

People pre the cross, Jews or Gentiles could come to God, as we see in scripture Jews & Gentiles turned to God, but they were still either Jews or Gentiles. It was only when the Lord revealed His fuller purpose for a heavenly nation that we come to understand about the Body of Christ. We don`t supplant anyone.

The problem is: you have swallowed the lie of your dispensational teachers which is that there are three peoples on this earth. But the Bible only recognizes two - saved and lost.

We are true Israel today. We are the children of Abraham today. We are the real Jews. We are the circumcision. We are the ones that are located in Zion today. You need to read the New Testament and see that that is a repeated New Testament truth. Race means nothing today. You need to move into the new covenant and see that the old covenant is gone forever. There’s no racial preference. Jews and Gentiles that reject Christ are off their father the devil. Jews and Gentiles that accept Christ are off their Heavenly Father. They are under the wrath of God and Antichrist. Any other gospel is a false gospel. It is another gospel.

 

[sovereigngrace]

You said -
Then after a thousand year sham of supposed submission to Christ the nations rise up in rebellion against him as the sand of the sea to surround the camp of the Saints. This debacle will never happen after Christ’s return. This is talking about our current ongoing era of imperfection.

Sorry I assumed you meant that the Lord was on earth. So you think because the Lord comes to earth, delivers Israel and then judges the nations as to how they treated them, that that is the end of His purposes. Is that how you see it?

For you see you have not taken into account God`s purposes through the Lord for the three groups - the Body of Christ, for Israel and the Nations. And those are all in time, and God has specific reasons for each.

BTW if you are talking about a `debacle,` well God could have fixed it all up quite early in history, not made Israel or the Body of Christ, if all He was interested in was fixing up Adam`s mess. BUT God has much greater plans and those I think you are not really aware of.

There are only two peoples on planet earth – those in Adam and those in Christ. Those in Adam have only one birth. Those in Christ have experienced a second birth.

 

[sovereigngrace]

If he was bound then he was bound. It seems you're trying to kind of water that down by making it seem he wasn't REALLY bound to make it fit your way of thinking. But the scriptures says he was bound.

Repeated scripture uses binding in a figurative sense. The wicked are depicted as being in chains and in a prison before salvation. We all know that that is not literal. Also, repeated scripture shows the binding of Satan and his minions since the earthly ministry of Christ. So, when we get into the most symbolic book in the Bible, it is not difficult to get your head around the spiritual binding of Satan in order to enlighten the Gentiles since the resurrection – the first resurrection.

The strongman was bound 2000 years ago according to Jesus. He invaded the Devil’s house, chained him and took a spoil. We are part of that spoil. This is figurative language.

 

[jgr]

The problem is: you have swallowed the lie of your dispensational teachers which is that there are three peoples on this earth. But the Bible only recognizes two - saved and lost.

We are true Israel today. We are the children of Abraham today. We are the real Chase. We are the circumcision. We are the ones that are located in Zion today. You need to read the New Testament and see that that is a repeated

We are true Israel today. We are the children of Abraham today. We are the real Jews. We are the circumcision. We are the ones that are located in Zion today. You need to read the New Testament and see that that is a repeated New Testament truth. Race means nothing today. You need to move into the new covenant and see that the old covenant is gone forever. There’s no racial preference. Jews and Gentiles that reject Christ are off their father the devil. Jews and Gentiles that accept Christ are off their Heavenly Father. They are under the wrath of God and Antichrist. Any other gospel is a false gospel. It is another gospel.

Amen, bro.

Looks like some of the sentences got orphaned and reordered; edit suggested.

Who/What is "Chase"?

 

[Bobber]

Repeated scripture uses binding in a figurative sense. The wicked are depicted as being in chains and in a prison before salvation. We all know that that is not literal. Also, repeated scripture shows the binding of Satan and his minions since the earthly ministry of Christ. So, when we get into the most symbolic book in the Bible, it is not difficult to get your head around the spiritual binding of Satan in order to enlighten the Gentiles since the resurrection – the first resurrection.

The strongman was bound 2000 years ago according to Jesus. He invaded the Devil’s house, chained him and took a spoil. We are part of that spoil. This is figurative language.

Look I know one doesn't build a teaching on just one scripture....BUT, if I understand your teaching right you're saying the devil was bound 2000 years ago and you know it has to be this way to support amillennialism taken from the Rev 20 text. I find this hard to accept though for the following reason....Rev 20 says when the binding takes place,

"And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years,3and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended" Rev 20:3

So you're suggesting the devil right now and for the last couple thousand years hasn't been an active agent in deceiving the nations? I think that hard to accept seeing that Paul even stated that Satan hindered him. A part of hindering the gospel is to keep people deceived....so if there comes a time where Satan is blocked from doing so I'd say it'd have to be in the future....thus premillennialism.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Amen, bro.

Looks like some of the sentences got orphaned and reordered; edit suggested.

Who/What is "Chase"?

LOL. My voice dictation does not always understand my Irish accent. It should have read Jews. I’m traveling at the moment.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Look I know one doesn't build a teaching on just one scripture....BUT, if I understand your teaching right you're saying the devil was bound 2000 years ago and you know it has to be this way to support amillennialism taken from the Rev 20 text. I find this hard to accept though for the following reason....Rev 20 says when the binding takes place,

"And he seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years,3and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he might not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were ended" Rev 20:3

So you're suggesting the devil right now and for the last couple thousand years hasn't been an active agent in deceiving the nations? I think that hard to accept seeing that Paul even stated that Satan hindered him. A part of hindering the gospel is to keep people deceived....so if there comes a time where Satan is blocked from doing so I'd say it'd have to be in the future....thus premillennialism.

Has there been any change before and after the cross in regard to Gentile enlightenment?

Also, who or what was the first resurrection/first fruits or first begotten from the dead?

 

[Bobber]

Has there been any change before and after the cross in regard to Gentile enlightenment?

God having not mandated a large push to speak a message to the Gentiles doesn't mean they didn't have not capacity to respond. Different cultures has at times responded to God. And even when God inspirited Paul and Peter to work with or go to the Gentiles it's not like it was right when Jesus arose from the dead. God was still giving the Jews the chance to be the lighthouse nation to the world which being so they would reach the Gentiles. And still during this time of working with the Gentiles Satan was still working to keep people deceived so how can we say Satan was bound at that time? Again this leads to the conclusion that the binding of Rev 20 of the devil still has to be future.

Also, who or what was the first resurrection/first fruits or first begotten from the dead?

I'm not sure how that deals with the question we're talking about. And how can any answer to that justify thinking the binding of the devil took place in the past? Perhaps you can explain.

 

[jgr]

People pre the cross, Jews or Gentiles could come to God, as we see in scripture Jews & Gentiles turned to God, but they were still either Jews or Gentiles. It was only when the Lord revealed His fuller purpose for a heavenly nation that we come to understand about the Body of Christ. We don`t supplant anyone.

No one supplants God's Chosen People -- those faithful and obedient to Him and His Son, irrespective of their physical DNA.

From the beginning, Israel was comprised of both Jews and Gentiles, and God's covenant embraced both (Genesis 17:12).

The provisions of His covenant for Gentiles were identical to those for Jews (Exodus 12:48,49; Leviticus 19:34; Leviticus 24:22; Numbers 15:15; Deuteronomy 10:19).

God's covenant conditions have never included physical DNA. They have only ever included spiritual DNA.

Two genes -- faith and obedience.

The araciality of God's covenant conditions is preserved and reinforced under the New Covenant in Christ (Romans 10:12; 1 Corinthians 12:13; Galatians 3:28; Ephesians 2:14,15; Colossians 3:11).

It is physically corroborated today by more than 3,000 years of genetic dispersion and diffusion across the human race, wherein Abraham's DNA is now present in every inhabitant of planet earth.

Confirming the covenant irrelevance and meritlessness of genetic distinctions.

Example of the mathematical confirmation of ancestral genetic ubiquity

Abraham lineage
DNA Tests Could Fulfill God’s Promise to Abraham by Revealing Millions of Jews. But How Jewish is Jewish Enough?
Israel in all of Us? Research finds 'Jewish genes' in unusual places
Jewish-Roots Arabs in Israel
Tracing the lost tribes to Jewish communities in Africa
Nigeria's Igbo Jews: 'Lost tribe' of Israel? - CNN
http://www.worldjewishcongress.org/...-africa-has-jewish-roots-genetic-tests-reveal
https://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/...her-claims-proof-of-tribe-of-Ephraim-in-India
https://www.jta.org/2013/05/23/life...bush-bani-israel-tribe-claims-jewish-heritage

 

[sovereigngrace]

God having not mandated a large push to speak a message to the Gentiles doesn't mean they didn't have not capacity to respond. Different cultures has at times responded to God. And even when God inspirited Paul and Peter to work with or go to the Gentiles it's not like it was right when Jesus arose from the dead. God was still giving the Jews the chance to be the lighthouse nation to the world which being so they would reach the Gentiles. And still during this time of working with the Gentiles Satan was still working to keep people deceived so how can we say Satan was bound at that time? Again this leads to the conclusion that the binding of Rev 20 of the devil still has to be future.



I'm not sure how that deals with the question we're talking about. And how can any answer to that justify thinking the binding of the devil took place in the past? Perhaps you can explain.

Christ’s first resurrection was the start of the evangelization of the Gentiles. Most people see that in the New Testament. The Gentiles are depicted in the OT as being outside of hope, blind, in gross darkness, rebellious, bound in chains and in a prison. That all changed after the resurrection of Christ. The NT is a picture of Gentile evangelizing. That is all Rev 20 is saying. There is zero corroboration for Premil scenario of the binding of Satan at the second coming and his release 1000 years later to deceive the millennial inhabitants as the sand of the sea. Amils have many passages that teaches the binding, curtailing, defeating and subjugation of Satan 2000 years ago. They also have many Scriptures that show Christ is the first resurrection.

Even though the Scriptures make many sweeping statements about the Gentiles been deceived in the Old Testament it did not mean that there was none that believed. Just like it makes sweeping statements about the Gentiles being enlightened in the New Testament, does not suggest that the most of them actually believed. These are just broad generalized. Scripture is full of them.

 

[Marilyn C]

Is the cross not enough for you? Was it not satisfactory enough? Was it not efficacious enough? Was it not eternal enough? Why would you promote rival sin offerings in the future?

Instead of just repeating what you’ve been taught, check out what the old testament teaches. The old covenant sacrifices atoned for the sins of Israel. They covered Israel’s guilt, albeit on a temporary basis.

These sacrifices have been abolished forever. They will never again be instituted or blessed by God. The cross did away with them forever.

Hebrews 7:27 says of Christ and His final atonement, “Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.”

Hebrews 9:28 explains that "Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many.”

Hebrews 10:10 says, “we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.”

Hebrews 10:12 says, “this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God.”

Hebrews 10:14 says, “For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.”

Romans 6:10 says, “he died unto sin once.”

1 Peter 3:18 says, “For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit.”

Hebrews 9:12 explains, “by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.”

Christ put and end of sin by this final transaction for sin, thus making an end of sin forever for those who would believe. There will never again be a sacrifice for sin. Christ’s atonement satisfied heaven’s holy demands and ensured that there would never again be another sacrifice/offering for sin carrying God’s blessing

So why did God make the Israelites sacrifice if they did nothing to take away sin?

 

[Marilyn C]

The problem is: you have swallowed the lie of your dispensational teachers which is that there are three peoples on this earth. But the Bible only recognizes two - saved and lost.

We are true Israel today. We are the children of Abraham today. We are the real Chase. We are the circumcision. We are the ones that are located in Zion today. You need to read the New Testament and see that that is a repeated

We are true Israel today. We are the children of Abraham today. We are the real Jews. We are the circumcision. We are the ones that are located in Zion today. You need to read the New Testament and see that that is a repeated New Testament truth. Race means nothing today. You need to move into the new covenant and see that the old covenant is gone forever. There’s no racial preference. Jews and Gentiles that reject Christ are off their father the devil. Jews and Gentiles that accept Christ are off their Heavenly Father. They are under the wrath of God and Antichrist. Any other gospel is a false gospel. It is another gospel.

So God made an oops did He when He made Israel and spent thousands of years working with them?

 

[Marilyn C]

There are only two peoples on planet earth – those in Adam and those in Christ. Those in Adam have only one birth. Those in Christ have experienced a second birth.

Mmmm I think you are too simplistic.
So what about those people who never had the opportunity to know about Christ?
What about those pre-cross?
What about those pre-flood?

Look at Rev. 21: 24 who are these `nations of the saved?
Look at Heb. 11:16 who are these who looked for a city?
Look at Rev. 3: 21 where will these overcomers go?

We are not all in a `soup` in God`s great kingdom. God has great purposes than you are giving Him credit for.

 

[Marilyn C]

No one supplants God's Chosen People -- those faithful and obedient to Him and His Son, irrespective of their physical DNA.

From the beginning, Israel was comprised of both Jews and Gentiles, and God's covenant embraced both (Genesis 17:12).

The provisions of His covenant for Gentiles were identical to those for Jews (Exodus 12:48,49; Leviticus 19:34; Leviticus 24:22; Numbers 15:15; Deuteronomy 10:19).

God's covenant conditions have never included physical DNA. They have only ever included spiritual DNA.

Two genes -- faith and obedience.

The araciality of God's covenant conditions is preserved and reinforced under the New Covenant in Christ (Romans 10:12; 1 Corinthians 12:13; Galatians 3:28; Ephesians 2:14,15; Colossians 3:11).

It is physically corroborated today by more than 3,000 years of genetic dispersion and diffusion across the human race, wherein Abraham's DNA is now present in every inhabitant of planet earth.

Confirming the covenant irrelevance and meritlessness of genetic distinctions.

Example of the mathematical confirmation of ancestral genetic ubiquity

Abraham lineage
DNA Tests Could Fulfill God’s Promise to Abraham by Revealing Millions of Jews. But How Jewish is Jewish Enough?
Israel in all of Us? Research finds 'Jewish genes' in unusual places
Jewish-Roots Arabs in Israel
Tracing the lost tribes to Jewish communities in Africa
Nigeria's Igbo Jews: 'Lost tribe' of Israel? - CNN
http://www.worldjewishcongress.org/...-africa-has-jewish-roots-genetic-tests-reveal
https://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/...her-claims-proof-of-tribe-of-Ephraim-in-India
https://www.jta.org/2013/05/23/life...bush-bani-israel-tribe-claims-jewish-heritage

Yes Gentiles were included in to Israel, and they were part of the nations of Israel. However there were still Gentiles that turned to God but were not in Israel.

Thus Israel (Jew & Gentile) & Gentiles who turned to God.

Then we have the Body of Christ.

We are not all `soup` in God`s great kingdom. God has great purposes and rulership under Christ in every realm. Study a bit more.

Look at Rev. 21: 24 who are these `nations of the saved?
Look at Heb. 11:16 who are these who looked for a city?
Look at Rev. 3: 21 where will these overcomers go?

 

[agapelove]

So why did God make the Israelites sacrifice if they did nothing to take away sin?

Leviticus 17:7 states that it is so they would no longer offer their sacrifices to pagan gods. I don't think God was ever a fan of animal sacrifices to begin with.

 

[sovereigngrace]

So why did God make the Israelites sacrifice if they did nothing to take away sin?

So God ordained pointless, useless and worthless blood-letting for thousands of years for no reason and you want to bring this religious sham back for us to watch this Circus for 1000 years after the coming of Christ until Satan rises up with his vile rebellion and the millennial inhabitants turn en-mass to follow him as the sand of the Sea?

 

[sovereigngrace]

Yes Gentiles were included in to Israel, and they were part of the nations of Israel. However there were still Gentiles that turned to God but were not in Israel.

Thus Israel (Jew & Gentile) & Gentiles who turned to God.

Then we have the Body of Christ.

We are not all `soup` in God`s great kingdom. God has great purposes and rulership under Christ in every realm. Study a bit more.

Look at Rev. 21: 24 who are these `nations of the saved?
Look at Heb. 11:16 who are these who looked for a city?
Look at Rev. 3: 21 where will these overcomers go?

Any Gentile - Old or New Testament - that has come to faith has become part of true Israel (since Israel was birthed).

 

[sovereigngrace]

Mmmm I think you are too simplistic.
So what about those people who never had the opportunity to know about Christ?
What about those pre-cross?
What about those pre-flood?

Look at Rev. 21: 24 who are these `nations of the saved?
Look at Heb. 11:16 who are these who looked for a city?
Look at Rev. 3: 21 where will these overcomers go?

We are not all in a `soup` in God`s great kingdom. God has great purposes than you are giving Him credit for.

How many unsaved people who did not know about Christ were destroyed in Noah’s day?

How many unsaved people who did not know about Christ were destroyed in Sodom and Gomorrah?

 

[agapelove]

Dean Davis' book, The High King of Heaven. The latter is particularly rewarding because it, unlike any other resource I have come across, addresses the hermeneutical method necessary for making sense of Biblical eschatology.

In his book, Davis writes "The Bible teaches that at the moment of death the human spirit (or soul) departs its body to one of two possible destinations - Heaven or Hades (Luke 16:19-31, Phil. 1:19-26, James 2:26, Rev. 6:9, 20:4)."

I'm not sure if I agree with that statement? Is it the martyrs whose souls are reigning with Christ or is it all believers once they die?