• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.
  6. We are no longer allowing posts or threads that deny the existence of Covid-19. Members have lost loved ones to this virus and are grieving. As a Christian site, we do not need to add to the pain of the loss by allowing posts that deny the existence of the virus that killed their loved one. Future post denying the Covid-19 existence, calling it a hoax, will be addressed via the warning system.

20 major reasons to reject the Premillennial doctrine

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by sovereigngrace, May 15, 2020.

  1. Guojing

    Guojing Well-Known Member

    +736
    Singapore
    Christian
    Married
    The difference is that God loved their ancestors, and made a promise to them (Romans 11:28)
     
  2. sovereigngrace

    sovereigngrace Well-Known Member

    +2,541
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    If they reject Jesus, are they children of God or children of the devil?
     
  3. Guojing

    Guojing Well-Known Member

    +736
    Singapore
    Christian
    Married
    As of now, in their fallen state they are an enemy to God (Romans 11:22 and 28).

    But God has promised he will restore the nation.
     
  4. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

    +4,762
    Canada
    Non-Denom
    Married
    The word "nation" does not appear in Romans 11.
     
  5. Guojing

    Guojing Well-Known Member

    +736
    Singapore
    Christian
    Married
    The term Israel, to me, always refers to the entire nation. (Exodus 19:6)
     
  6. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

    +4,762
    Canada
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Exodus 19:6 is referenced in 1 Peter 2:9, and fulfilled in the Church.
     
  7. Guojing

    Guojing Well-Known Member

    +736
    Singapore
    Christian
    Married
    Both passages are referring to the nation of Israel, the latter refers to the little flock from that nation who believes.

    Neither refers to the Body of Christ. We can agree to disagree there.
     
  8. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    +2,526
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Private
    No, I dd not miss it. It is just saying that there would be broad spectrum of people making up the Armageddon force that gathers together to make war against Jesus.
     
  9. sovereigngrace

    sovereigngrace Well-Known Member

    +2,541
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    In the light of the introduction of the new covenant, and within a New Testament context, Paul takes time to examine the whole dynamic between national Israel and God’s righteous remnant. Romans 11:25-29 tells us: “For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.”

    This is a passage that has confused many Christians over the years. The reason for this seems to revolve around the phrase “all Israel shall be saved.” There are many that deduce corporate salvation for natural Israel from this. But is Paul contradicting himself in his Romans 9-11 discourse? In one breath in Romans 9:27 he is saying “a remnant shall be saved” (future, passive, indicative), in the next, in Romans 11:26, he is saying “all Israel shall be saved” (future, passive, indicative).

    Let us be absolutely assured: Paul is definitely not opposing himself, neither is the Holy Spirit, who inspired him to pen this, confused. He is in no way teaching corporate salvation in Romans 11:25-29, as some would suggest, or else he would be reversing everything he has just taught in the preceding verses and chapters of this book (and his other Epistles) in regard to an elect remnant. Salvation was never secured on the grounds of race; it was always by grace through faith. Moreover, the Gospel opportunity in the New Testament is always shown to be open to all nationalities equally; this includes natural Israel.

    So, let us summarize:
    • To arrive at the ‘corporate position’ one has to totally ignore Paul’s overriding message of two types of Israeli in Romans 9–11 (and in the whole book of Romans). Throughout, he is constantly differentiating between Israelis that are blind and Israelis that are elect.
    • They also have to ignore the whole context and setting of Paul’s comments “all Israel shall be saved.” He uses the phrase immediately after demonstrating that the elect Israeli good olive only holds those Jews that are of the household of “faith.”
    • As Paul expands his argument on the salvation of his own kinsmen, and tells us that all Israel shall be saved, he does it within the vital context of a faithful believing remnant of Israelis. Many fail to see that Paul has already established that the believing element within the overall physical nation of Israel is “a remnant.”
    • Some also seem to overlook Paul’s supporting evidence from the Old Testament Scripture (in Isaiah 59:20) that shows that the people in view are a spiritual segment of the overall whole who put their faith in Christ and repent of their sin.
    In Romans 11:25-29, Paul is basically summing up everything he has just said previous in Romans 9–11, in regard to there being a chosen remnant within natural Israel that will be brought through in this intra-Advent period (while the Gentiles were being brought in). He saw a day when all that belonged to true Israel would finally be completed. That is why he uses the future tense. Greg L. Bahnsen submits: “God’s covenant promise never guaranteed salvation for all of ethnic Israel, says Paul, but it did provide for the inclusion of the Gentiles in salvation” (Gospel Prosperity and the Future of Israel).

    Dispensationalists fail to notice (or choose to ignore) Romans 9:6-13. There, Paul identifies who “all Israel” is: “For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, they which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. For this is the word of promise, At this time will I come, and Sara shall have a son. And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth. It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.”

    These words blow apart Dispensationalism. Paul very adeptly distinguishes here between the believing elect remnant within Israel and the wider national Israel itself. He eliminates any apparent confusion between Romans 9:27 and Romans 11:26 by demonstrating that true Israel is not merely that which is physical and ethnic, but rather that which is faithful and believing. Genetic pedigree means nothing to the Apostle. Rather than conflicting, Romans 9:27 and Romans 11:26 are really speaking about the same Israel – faithful believing Israel. It is this Israel alone that is chosen and who carries divine favor on this earth. They are the flock of God. He confirms that it is this faithful assembly within wider Israel that are the elect and who walk in covenant blessing.

    There is no such thing as corporate salvation – not in the Old Testament, nor in the New Testament. This is a modern theological innovation. Whilst no one could surely deny that an all-powerful God would have any difficulty in performing that, Scripture does not present salvation as a wholesale ethnic national experience. It is very much an individual thing and is open to both Jews and Gentiles equally. One just has to look at Hebrews 11 to see that. There, the Old Testament saints are seen to be justified in the same way we are today. Time after time it states: “By faith Abel” (Hebrews 11:4), “By faith Enoch” (Hebrews 11:5), “By faith Noah” (Hebrews 11:7), “By faith Abraham” (Hebrews 11:8), “By faith Isaac” (Hebrews 11:20), “By faith Jacob” (Hebrews 11:21), etc, etc. Here we see the personal aspect of salvation. It was like that before the cross. It is life that after the cross. Salvation was always by grace through faith.
     
  10. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    +2,526
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Private
    You were quoting verses about the faith of the patriarchs in the old testatment. But you used a word not found in the text regarding their faith - Salvation.

    Change that to a person cannot please God without faith.

    Hebrews11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

    Salvation - The only way to be saved is by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ, Him crucified and resurrected on the third day.
    ________________________________

    You cannot make the church into the nation of Israel.
     
  11. sovereigngrace

    sovereigngrace Well-Known Member

    +2,541
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    The biased Zionist focus of many Dispensationalists today, with their unhealthy fixation on national Israel, is roundly rebuked throughout New Testament Scriptures. The apartheid they advocate runs contrary to God’s heart for this new covenant era. It is shown to be contrary to New Testament truth. In fact, it is the reverse of God’s plan for the nations.

    In Acts 10, God uses a vision of unclean food to help the apostle Peter see that in Christ there is no longer any spiritual distinction between Jew and Gentile. God now accepts both equally on the same terms into His kingdom. Peter responds to this great monumental revelation in Acts 10:34-36: “I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him. The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all).”

    The word interpreted “respecter” in the King James Version is the Greek word prosopoleptes which simply means: one exhibiting partiality. In fact, the New King James Version renders this, “In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality. But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him.”

    The Revised Standard Version states: “Truly I perceive that God shows no partiality, but in every nation any one who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him.” The New Living Translation: “I see very clearly that God doesn't show partiality. In every nation he accepts those who fear him and do what is right.” Today’s English Version similarly states, “I now realize that it is true that God treats everyone on the same basis. Whoever fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him, no matter what race he belongs to.” New International Version states: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism but accepts men from every nation who fear him and do what is right.”

    This passage is crystal clear in its meaning and explanation of how God views all nations, peoples and tribes equally today. The reading makes it clear: God is no respecter of persons. This is not strange or outlandish; it is the constant theme of the New Testament. The Gospel is no longer restricted to the physical race of Israel but it has been opened up to embrace all nations. This means that God doesn’t accept anyone based on their nationality, color or status but rather on whether or not they fear Him. When it comes to salvation he looks at the inward rather than the outward. Those that fear him and walk righteously “in every nation” are now “accepted with him.” He is assuredly “Lord of all.” He has made all nations, tribes and kindreds the focus of His favor today. It is wrong to elevate one nation over another.

    Messianic Jew Jakob Jocz cogently observes: “God is no respecter of persons. Before Him, the Holy One, men stand not as Jews and Gentiles but as sinners who are in need of grace. Jesus the prophet may be speaking to the Gentiles; but Jesus the Son of God speaks to mankind. Jesus the martyr may be appealing to some and not to others; but Jesus the Lamb of God challenges the whole human race. God’s word is one word, and God’s way is one if it is the way of God” (The Jewish People and Jesus Christ).

    The Jews no longer enjoy a favored or exclusive status. Sadly, many modern-day Christian fail to get their head round this great and seismic immense new covenant change.

    There was an infamous controversy among the early Church about the conversion of the Gentiles and particularly the erroneous thought, “Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved” in Acts 15:1-19. The matter was brought to the Church in Jerusalem for them to make a ruling. Peter arose and spoke on behalf of the brethren, saying, “Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith” (vv7-9).

    The NKJV states: “God … made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.” Anyone who fights this reality is clearly fighting with God and holy Scripture.

    Paul asserts in Romans 2:11-12: “For there is no respect of persons with God. For as many as have sinned without law (Gentiles) shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law (Jews) shall be judged by the law.” This same truth is repeated in Galatians 2:6, Ephesians 6:9, Colossians 3:25, James 2:9 and 1 Peter 1:17.

    This is the constant theme that threads through New Testament Scripture. It is clear and unambiguous. It demolishes the bias Dispensationalists reasoning. As we moved from the old covenant to the new covenant the whole ethnic bias towards Israel was removed, so was the unique theocratic system of government that existed within that land (Matthew 21:42-43, Luke 13:5-9, 28-29, 34-35). No longer would race be a special privilege in regard to election. All men would now approach God equally on the grounds of the blood of Jesus. Christ widened out the Gospel opportunity to all nations. He removed the natural ethnic preference of the Gospel that strongly inclined towards natural Israelites and drew countless millions of Gentiles into that special chosen company.
     
  12. Douggg

    Douggg anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

    +2,526
    United States
    Non-Denom
    Private
    You are giving me an Amil sermon on Savlation is available to everyone. Pre-(great)trib, pre-mil are totally knowledgeable about all those verses.

    That is not the issue in eschatology. There another forum available to discuss Salvation. The Soteriology forum. Salvation (Soteriology)

    In eschatology, the issue is God's three point plan - the mystery of God who He has declared to His servants the prophets.

    1. does God have a plan to bring Israel, the Jews, corporately speaking, to salvation in Jesus?
    2. does God have a plan to end the sordid state of existence man has been in ever since the garden of eden; and replace it with man being in an idyllic existence in the everlasting Kingdom of God?
    3. does God have a plan to destroy Satan and his angels, and their kingdom, forever?

    Yes, to all of the above.

    Revelation 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

    None of the seven angels have sounded yet.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2021
  13. sovereigngrace

    sovereigngrace Well-Known Member

    +2,541
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    The old covenant apparatus is gone forever. We will never be returning to it.

    Those who are born again have been grafted into true Israel (believing Israel). We are the spiritual Jews. We are the circumcision. We are the offspring of God. We are the true children of Abraham. We are the only Israel that is chosen. We are “the children of God.” We are “the children of promise.”

    The Lord frequently called out the spiritual impotence of national Israel by way of symbol and by way of a parable. In Luke 13:6-9 He used the fig tree to symbolize natural Israel’s demise. He taught: “A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none. Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground? And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it: And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.”

    Contained within these comments was proof that major change was coming. Here Christ is speaking of Israel’s lack of fruitlessness as a fig tree. He presents this as the reason why the fig tree must be cut down. Here, He is referring to how the nation generally rebelled against His message of salvation and hence brought forth no fruit acceptable unto God. That ministry lasted 3 ½ years on this earth and culminated in the Jews crucifying the Messiah. In the parable Christ refers to the length of His ministry.

    On the day after His triumphant entry into Jerusalem, many of the citizens of Jerusalem heralded Him, saying, “Hosanna; Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord: Blessed be the kingdom of our father David, that cometh in the name of the Lord: Hosanna in the highest” (Mark 11:9-11).

    But the text continues in Mark 11:13-14, “seeing a fig tree afar off having leaves, he came, if haply he might find any thing thereon: and when he came to it, he found nothing but leaves; for the time of figs was not yet. And Jesus answered and said unto it, No man eat fruit of thee hereafter for ever.”

    Did Christ curse this fig tree simply to prove His deity? Did He do it for no obvious reason? Or was He impressing some great spiritual truth upon His disciples in regard to natural Israel?

    Jesus did nothing without a purpose. This was not some pointless irrelevant act to prove Christ’s deity or omnipotence; it was an object lesson in regard to Israel. The fig tree symbolically represents the physical nation of Israel whereas the olive tree represents the spiritual people of Israel. When Christ cursed the fig tree He was demonstrating the removing of the exclusive theocratic favor of God from the physical nation of Israel, whereas, the olive tree will exist forever. Years of abusing God’s favor, years of successive misrule among the national judges and kings, and the spiritual leaders, especially among the priests, and ongoing idolatry and stubborn rebellion among the people, finally brought the theocratic reign to an end. Never again will God’s favor be restricted to a genetic interim earthly nation, but rather to a spiritual eternal heavenly nation.

    Verse 12-14 records, in the NKJV: “Now the next day, when they had come out from Bethany, He was hungry. And seeing from afar a fig tree having leaves, He went to see if perhaps He would find something on it. When He came to it, He found nothing but leaves, for it was not the season for figs. In response Jesus said to it, ‘Let no one eat fruit from you ever again’.”

    The old covenant theocracy was gone forever. After this, the Lord significantly headed straight for the very epicenter of the Jewish religion – the temple – and overturned the tables, demonstrating that He had had enough with their religious hypocrisy and stubborn rebellion.

    Verse 15-17 in the KJV says, “they come to Jerusalem: and Jesus went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves; And would not suffer that any man should carry any vessel through the temple. And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves.”

    The favor of God was never intended to be limited to one nation. It was always God’s plan to reach the nations. This was the great turning point in history where kingdom blessing was transferred from the physical entity of natural Israel to the spiritual entity of the New Testament Church. With the introduction of the new covenant arrangement that move occurred. His house would no longer be considered a physical house in Jerusalem, but rather a spiritual house that would be a home throughout “all nations.”

    The arrival of the new covenant arrangement, and the broadening out of the people of God, coincided with the removal of the old covenant apparatus. This was Jesus revealing His heart and plan for a fallen world.

    Dispensationalists frequently argue that “this teaching misrepresents God as one who breaks His promises.” They rationalize: “If God breaks His promises, then how is one to know His salvation is secure? How may the Church know that God will not find another people to replace it for the sins it has committed?” Or, “if God did not keep His promises to Israel 2000 years ago, how then can we be sure He will keep His word to us in the future?”
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2021
  14. Guojing

    Guojing Well-Known Member

    +736
    Singapore
    Christian
    Married
    Good point, for Israel, salvation is only received when they are ushered into the kingdom of heaven on Earth (Acts 3:19-21, Hebrews 8:12, 1 Peter 1:9).

    Since covenant theologians believe that present salvation was available at all times, they cannot understand this point.
     
  15. Spiritual Jew

    Spiritual Jew Well-Known Member Supporter

    +1,462
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    So, they won't be required to put their faith in Christ in order to be saved? They will just receive it one day based on their nationality? Is that what you think? If so, where does scripture ever teach that anyone has ever, is now, or will ever be saved based on their nationality?

    Do you believe that God has been withholding salvation from all Israelites for the past 2,000 years or so? If so, how do you explain the accounts of thousands of them being saved beginning on the day of Pentecost?

    Do you not believe the scriptures which teach that God wants all people to repent and to be saved (Acts 17:30, 2 Peter 3:9, John 3:16, 1 Tim 2:4-6, 1 John 2:1-2, etc.), which would include all Israelites? Why do you postpone their salvation when God does not? All of them have the opportunity for salvation now and that has been the case ever since Christ died for their sins and the sins of the whole world.

    If you had the chance to witness to a Jew would you refrain from doing so because you don't believe that person can be saved now?
     
  16. Guojing

    Guojing Well-Known Member

    +736
    Singapore
    Christian
    Married
    They need to accept that Christ is their promised Messiah, under the gospel of the kingdom (John 20:31), before they are forgiven corporately, as a nation, so that is where faith saves them.

    If there was present salvation for Israel the moment they believe, Peter would not have said Acts 3:19-21 and 1 Peter 1:9, as stated, even 1 Peter 4:17-18 stated clearly

    17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

    18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

    Salvation for Israel is always tied to the promised kingdom. Haven't you realized the final question the 11 asked of Jesus before they will never see him again in Acts 1:6?

    It was not "So are we finally saved now that you have risen from the dead", but rather is about whether the promised kingdom will finally begin for them.

    As for your last question, since the fall of Israel as a nation in Acts 7, all Jews are considered uncircumcised and hence are saved like us, thru the Body of Christ (Romans 11:11)

    But when the Tribulation begins, the nation of Israel will once again be God's favored nation. That will be when all gentiles will be cut off once again (Romans 11:22)
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2021
  17. sovereigngrace

    sovereigngrace Well-Known Member

    +2,541
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    You were unable to support your Pretrib theory with one single Scripture. Now you have turned to the Premil theory and you are repeating the same trait. You were unable to support your Premil theory with one single Scripture.

    The two verses that go before Acts 1:6 (relating to the disciples’ question) support the idea of a spiritual kingdom. The two verses that follow Acts 1:6 (relating to the disciples’ question) show the Lord giving a spiritual response to their question.

    Before the question came Christ was exhorting the disciples on the need for patience as they awaited the empowerment of the Holy Ghost to take the Gospel out to “the whosoever.” Everything about the context is spiritual. The Lord was stating “that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence (Acts 1:4-5).

    Surely an unbiased look at these introductory comments would give us insight into what the Lord was teaching and what actually provoked the question that followed it. Undoubtedly the Lord was giving spiritual instruction about a spiritual kingdom that would shortly come with great power and fire? This is not territorial language.

    What is “the Promise of the Father” here? Is it a material physical kingdom or is it a spiritual heavenly kingdom? Is it a millennial kingdom similar to this evil age, filled with death and rebellion, or was He speaking of the power of the Holy Ghost that would fall upon the disciples to empower them to bring the good news of Christ to all nations – starting in Jerusalem?

    Christ was speaking of Pentecost. He said the disciples would not die until they had “seen the kingdom come with power” – referring here the Church’s baptism of fire to win a lost world. It didn’t mean they would die when that happened.

    The disciples then interjected with a question: Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?”

    Premillennialists attribute much extravagant, extensive and grandiose detail to this simple question. They build a whole school of thought pertaining to a supposed period after the second coming out of this basic inquiry. They call it a millennial age and make it a Jewish-orientated kingdom. Nevertheless, and significantly, New Testament Scripture knows nothing of such an old-covenant-type Jewish age. That has been reduced to the history books.

    What Premillennialists fail to see is: there is no mention of a future period after the second coming in the question, neither is there any intimation of that. There is not even any mention of the second coming, never mind a belief in a thousand-year reign of Christ on a still corrupt earth! No one could derive such a doctrine from this straightforward question. It would have to be taught elsewhere for it to enjoy veracity.

    The most that we could take from this is that they may indeed have anticipated the introduction of a parochial, territorial and old-covenant-type physical kingdom. But that is far from a foregone conclusion. We can only, at best, speculate on that. Even if that was their assumption, that in no way proves that it was a legitimate hope. The disciples were often misguided in their expectations and narrow-minded in their tribal aspirations. They frequently saw no further than the borders of Israel. We see that played in the book of Acts, with their reluctance to advance the Gospel to the Gentiles.

    It is hard to read the motives and intention of the question. Many times, the disciples were not getting the full meaning of Christ’s teaching. He sent His whole ministry correcting and re-directing them. So it could have been a patriotic desire. But Christ’s response nails it. That is what is key, not the disciples question. Premils tend to ignore the context and response and just talk about one verse in this narrative. That is because it suits their theology.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2021
  18. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

    +4,762
    Canada
    Non-Denom
    Married
    1 Peter 1
    1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
    2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

    The epistle was written to Christian believers in the identified areas.

    Nothing to do with your nation of Israel, and nothing to do with your little flock.
     
  19. Guojing

    Guojing Well-Known Member

    +736
    Singapore
    Christian
    Married
    He was asking a question about whether Peter or any Jew from Israel, expected to receive present salvation the moment they put their faith in Christ, and I gave him an answer from scripture.
     
  20. Guojing

    Guojing Well-Known Member

    +736
    Singapore
    Christian
    Married
    You should have highlighted the 1st verse instead

    Peter was addressing the Jews scattered abroad in his letters (1 Peter 1:1).

    Gentiles do not belong to any specific nation that is born of God so it makes no sense to describe gentile believers are scattered. God never calls us a "holy nation" for the same reason.

    Peter would also not be writing a letter to gentile believers, after the agreement he made with Paul, together with James and John, in Galatians 2:9
     
Loading...