20 major reasons to reject the Premillennial doctrine

[jgr]

Actually that `throne,` in the city, denotes authority and power of God the Father and the Lamb. It does NOT mean that their seat of power and authority is in the city, for that is in the highest realm.

Note when the city comes down, it comes down FROM God. God is there by His Holy Spirit but He does NOT move His eternal throne. God`s eternal throne is actually beyond the created order and the Son`s own throne, power and authority is visible in the highest realm of creation.

Trying to understand your perspective, Marilyn.

Please provide supporting Scripture for your assertions above.

How many thrones are there, and where are they located?

 

[jgr]

For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.”

That's great Scripture, brother.

 

[sovereigngrace]

That's great Scripture, brother.

Dispensationalism has to ignore so much clear and explicit Scripture in order to fit.

 

[Yesha]

I have been on the road for 6 days and have not had access to my computer. I will address this when I get home. If I overlook please remind me.

I have been using a cell phone to respond to people, and voice dictation, which is not the best, especially when you have an Irish accent. Lol

If you have the time now, I would love to hear you thoughts on my post (#205).

 

[sovereigngrace]

Edit: I think I somehow misread your post and responded to the wrong question. I will leave my original post below anyway. My apologies for the confusion!

To address your question properly, I did not think of it in that way. I know that we are crucified with Christ (Galatians 2:20) and that we are raised to life with him by faith (Colossians 2:12). However, I did not make this connection in the context of Revelation 20. I would love to hear a little more from you on this, if you do not mind.



Original post: Yes! In fact another passage in the Johannine corpus, John 5:19-29, came to mind. Here is my brief exegesis. I welcome your input since I am still learning!

21 For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom he will. 22 For the Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son, 23 that all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him. 24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life. - John 5:21-24 (ESV)​

Jesus declares his unity with the Father by raising the dead and giving life just as the Father does. This life is granted through faith and is everlasting. Thus Christ's words in this context carry soteriological and eschatological overtones. John proceeds.

25 “Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. 27 And he has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment. - John 5:25-29 (ESV)​

John uses the phrase "an hour is coming" twice: (1) in verse 25 and (2) in verse 28. In the first instance, John modifies the phrase by appending "and is now here". What happens during this hour? We read that the dead hear the voice of the Son and live. But this refers not to a contemporaneous physical resurrection en masse; rather it is stated in the context of verse 24 in which hearing and believing the word of Christ secures eternal life. This could indicate the "first resurrection" spoken of by John in Revelation 20:5. In the second instance, John does not synchronize "an hour is coming" with the present. We are not told when this hour will arrive, only that it is coming. During this hour the dead, both righteous and unrighteous, will be raised to their final, eternal state (v29). This seems to refer to the "second resurrection" implied in Revelation 20:5.

As I was putting together my post on Revelation 20, I thought through the above. However, I chose to stick with the immediate context provided in Revelation, which lead me to see the first resurrection as most likely indicative of the intermediate state. But I certainly see the language of resurrection by regeneration in John 5:25 as a possible alternative, or perhaps, we could see both in play. In other words, the saints coming to life includes both their regeneration in time and the intermediate state upon physical death prior to the return of Christ.

I would appreciate your thoughts on this, especially if you have any resources I can look into. Thanks for bringing this point up brother!

Revelation 20:6 says, “Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.”

Christ was the first to conquer the grave. Any resurrections before him ended up dying. Scripture says it. Any resurrection after Him is obviously NOT the first resurrection.

Acts 26:23 presents Christ’s physical resurrection as the first resurrection, saying, “Christ should suffer, and that He should be the first resurrection from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles."

Colossians 1:18 closely mirrors Acts 26:23, saying, “And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.”

Revelation 1:5 uses the same Greek word to describe Christ’s triumphant resurrection, saying, “Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth.”

Paul similarly says in 1 Corinthians 15:20, “now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.”

Revelation 20:6 simply says, “Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power.”

Revelation 20:6, and the truth contained within it, closely correlates with what Jesus taught in John 11:25, saying, “I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die."

Jesus presents Himself as the absolute and only cure for the blight of physical and spiritual death. The eternal life He gives is the only antidote for “the second death” that Revelation 20 discusses.

Christ’s death, burial and resurrection secured two distinct, yet inextricably linked, resurrections for the believer, not one as the Premillennialists repeatedly assert; the first being a spiritual resurrection – the new birth; the second being a physical resurrection of the just. Significantly, there are many passages in Scripture, which support this biblical supposition.

The Greek verb echo correctly interpreted “that hath” in the King James Version is written in the present tense and in the active voice. Therefore, we can view the relevance and vitality of “the first resurrection” as being both current and ongoing. Christ’s victory over death is not simply a past event that has no active bearing upon what we are today; it is ongoing reality in the lives of God’s people. The Greek word translated “part” in the text is the word meros meaning share, allotment or portion. This reading tells us that all those that have come to the joy of saving faith in Christ have become partakers in the resurrection life, and through this will escape the horrors of the second death – eternal wrath.

The Christian has a meros or “part” in “the first resurrection.” The phrase “that hath part” proves we are looking at our positional involvement in Christ's first resurrection. That comes through being “in Christ.”

This is something that Premillennialism seems to miss. This passage is referring to Christ’s role as man’s representative, and in particularly outlining the victory He secured for us through His glorious resurrection over, sin, death and the grave. In turn, it is showing our direct interest in this great transaction. It is showing how Christ became our substitute at the Cross even though He was sinless. He was condemned on our behalf for the purpose that we would be eternally free. He took our sin, our guilt, our past, our weaknesses, our sorrows upon Himself – in full. Finally, when He rose again He did it in our stead. In it He defeated death and the grave for the believer. Thus every sinner has his part in that central resurrection as the only means of overcoming eternal punishment.

We would all agree that Christ physically conquered the grave with His glorious resurrection. What is more, in order of sequence, He was “the first resurrection.” He was the first to be glorified and enter into heaven. Finally, He did this all on our behalf. That is why this passage says that we now have our portion in this first resurrection. That is what happens on salvation. We identify with His death, burial and resurrection. In fact, all that experience salvation because they have identified with Christ by simple faith in the new birth. They spiritually have their part in the eternal work of Christ 2,000 years when He defeated the grave on their behalf. In short, this was a substitutionary act – He did it in our stead.

Through Christ’s life, death and resurrection we are delivered from eternal punishment (the second death). This is the only resurrection that spares the entire redeemed community from the horrors of the Lake of Fire. The new birth experience whereby we spiritually become one with Christ is continually depicted as the means by which one escapes eternal punishment. Why would this passage teach anything different? Christ doesn’t present the physical resurrection of the just as our confidence of escaping eternal punishment. No, it is salvation.

Our participation in this hope is active and ongoing; it is not merely a future hope at His Coming. 1 Peter 1:3-5 confirms this, saying, “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.”

Our spiritual resurrection is totally linked to Christ's physical resurrection. He is the first resurrection (Acts 26:23, Colossians 1:18, Revelation 1:5 and 1 Corinthians 15:20). Without it there is no hope. There are many Scriptures that show this.

 

[Marilyn C]

It is hard debating with you, because every time your statements are shown to be biblically wrong, you move unto another subject as if your arguments are valid. The fact is: Dispensationalism is wrong. It constantly contradicts the Word of God.

The Old Testament Scriptures predicted the Messiah from the Garden! The LORD said in Genesis 3:15: “I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.” The bruising of Satan’s head by Christ broke the power of sin over the penitent sinner. Jesus made a way of escape for us. He didn’t leave Adam and Eve – our first parents – naked, hopeless and condemned. No! But by a gracious act of mercy He created a way of escape.

Genesis 3:21 reveals, “Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.” The Lord removed their old tattered garments and gave them a divine covering. Here is the first blood sacrifice. Significantly it was made by Almighty God. This renewed them and brought them back into communion with God. They were new creatures. The animal skins did not just cover their physical bodies but also represented the sacrifice of the innocent animal’s blood as a means of covering sin. We know that their progeny were familiar with this procedure of animal blood sacrifice (Genesis 4:4-5), for we see it also in the story of righteous Abel.

Noah later followed suit (Genesis 8:20-21). God commanded Abram to prepare animals to sacrifice. He then performed the sacrifice, cutting the animals into two pieces (Genesis 15:9-10). A sacrifice system was formally instituted under Moses that involved official offices, detailed furniture, elaborate procedures, and particular animals (the book of Leviticus). All these sacrifices pointed to the coming Lamb of God. This bloody scarlet thread ran throughout the Old Testament and ends up at the cross of Christ.

Paul, in Galatians 3:8-9, shows that Abraham was saved through the same inspired Gospel as we are today. It was the good news of salvation, by grace, through faith in Christ. It says: “the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.”

The same glorious Gospel runs from the Old to the New Testament. It involves one ongoing progressive harmonious revelation of the person and work of Christ. He is man’s only redeemer. He is man’s only hope. Notwithstanding, the Old Testament saints were looking at our Savior from a more obscure perspective, and their revelation of Him was more veiled than that of the new covenant saints. However, they embraced the same overriding life-changing message.

The old covenant saints were looking forward with anticipation to Christ’s earthly assignment on man’s behalf, while the new covenant Christian is looking back to His victorious earthly ministry. Salvation came in both testaments through the enlightening power of the Gospel. We see in this passage that it the glad tiding of good news that we enjoy today was proclaimed to Abraham and he embraced it by faith.

Adam Clarke expounds this passage: “As God intended to justify the heathen through faith, he preached the Gospel that contains the grand display of the doctrine of salvation by faith, before, to Abraham, while he was in his heathen state; and thus he is called the father of believers: therefore it must refer to them who shall believe the same Gospel among the Gentiles; and, as the door of faith was open to all the Gentiles, consequently the promise was fulfilled: In thee shall all the nations of the earth be blessed.”

Repeated Scripture shows the continuity between the old covenant Gospel message and the new covenant Gospel message. It also shows the harmony between the people of God in the Old Testament and the people of God in the New Testament.

1 Peter 4:4-6, “they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you: Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead. For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.”

Previous generations have heard the good news of the Lord Jesus Christ. Those that had eye to see embraced Him, those that were blind rejected Him. There is one Gospel that has gradually developed through clearer revelation. All the truth we find in the New Testament can normally be found in the Old Testament, albeit sometimes veiled. This not does in any way suggest 2 Gospels. There is only one Gospel, one faith, one overall covenant of grace, one election and one salvation.

Hebrews 3:17-19 4:1-2: “with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness? And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief. Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.”

The writer to the Hebrews is here showing us that the Gospel was indeed preached onto natural Israel in the Old Testament. This is the same Gospel that we have today. This Gospel produced the same fruit then, in those that got it, as it does in us today. Those who rejected that liberating message back then faced the same awful consequences as those who do the same today. The Gospel in essentially the good news of Jesus Christ. He is man’s only Savior. He is man’s only hope. The Old Testament saints looked forward by faith to His appearing. We today look back and rejoice in His appearing 2000 years ago.

The Old Testament sets forth a Gospel theme consistent with the New Testament that men were saved from sin by grace through saving faith in the Lord and His promises.

The Gospel message was a prophetic message predicting the sufferings of the Messiah and the glories that would follow. Christ was the central focus of the Old Testament. His life, death and resurrection are man’s only hope – past, present and future.

OK. Sorry it seems like that. I will take note of what you say and see if I tend to do that. Thanks for pointing that out, (politely).

Now we both agree that Jesus is God`s good news and as you said some of the message was veiled to the OT saints. Probably what I am referring to is that the Body of Christ was NOT revealed previously, so that part of God`s great plan was not known.

Is that better explained?

 

[keras]

Our participation in this hope is active and ongoing; it is not merely a future hope at His Coming. 1 Peter 1:3-5 confirms this, saying, “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.”

Our spiritual resurrection is totally linked to Christ's physical resurrection. He is the first resurrection (Acts 26:23, Colossians 1:18, Revelation 1:5 and 1 Corinthians 15:20). Without it there is no hope. There are many Scriptures that show this.

Where you and many others go wrong, is in the expectation of a resurrection and immortality before the final Judgment, the GWT; AFTER the Millennium.
We born again Christians do have the Lords Promise of this, John 3:16, but nowhere is it said that we receive it at any time before that. Revelation 20:11-15

 

[BABerean2]

Probably what I am referring to is that the Body of Christ was NOT revealed previously, so that part of God`s great plan was not known.

Paul said it was not a mystery to Hosea.

Rom 9:23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory,
Rom 9:24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
Rom 9:25 As He says also in Hosea: "I WILL CALL THEM MY PEOPLE, WHO WERE NOT MY PEOPLE, AND HER BELOVED, WHO WAS NOT BELOVED."
Rom 9:26 "AND IT SHALL COME TO PASS IN THE PLACE WHERE IT WAS SAID TO THEM, 'YOU ARE NOT MY PEOPLE,' THERE THEY SHALL BE CALLED SONS OF THE LIVING GOD."
Rom 9:27 Isaiah also cries out concerning Israel: "THOUGH THE NUMBER OF THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL BE AS THE SAND OF THE SEA, THE REMNANT WILL BE SAVED.

.

 

[Marilyn C]

Trying to understand your perspective, Marilyn.

Please provide supporting Scripture for your assertions above.

How many thrones are there, and where are they located?

Thank you jgr. Yes this topic has not been treated before so I`m pleased you have brought it up.

So let`s go to Col. 1: 16 -

`For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether THRONES or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and FOR Him.`(Col. 1: 16)

The Eternal Throne - meaning God`s power and authority. That is obviously before and beyond His created order.

The Third heaven - Lucifer had a throne there. (Isa. 14: 12 & 13 `O Lucifer.....I will exalt my throne above...) The Father will set up a throne there for His Son. (Rev. 4:2 `a throne set in heaven.`) & appoint Him King. (Ps. 2: 6 `I have set me King on my holy hill of Mount Zion.`) Other throne will be there also. (Rev. 4: 4 `Around the throne were 24 thrones...`)

The Universe - the city coming down out of heaven from God. `...the throne of God and of the lamb..` (Rev. 22: 1) The 12 throne of the 12 apostles. (Matt. 19: 28 `you ....will also sit on 12 throne judging the 12 tribes of Israel.)

The Earth - Kings of the nations. (Rev. 21: 24 `the kings of the earth bring their glory & honour into it.`) Israel`s king. (2 Sam. 7: 16 your house and your kingdom shall be established forever before you. Your throne shall be established forever.`)

 

[Marilyn C]

Paul said it was not a mystery to Hosea.

Rom 9:23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory,
Rom 9:24 even us whom He called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
Rom 9:25 As He says also in Hosea: "I WILL CALL THEM MY PEOPLE, WHO WERE NOT MY PEOPLE, AND HER BELOVED, WHO WAS NOT BELOVED."
Rom 9:26 "AND IT SHALL COME TO PASS IN THE PLACE WHERE IT WAS SAID TO THEM, 'YOU ARE NOT MY PEOPLE,' THERE THEY SHALL BE CALLED SONS OF THE LIVING GOD."
Rom 9:27 Isaiah also cries out concerning Israel: "THOUGH THE NUMBER OF THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL BE AS THE SAND OF THE SEA, THE REMNANT WILL BE SAVED.

.

Paul was referring to the Gentiles coming to the Lord but it in no way reveals the Body of Christ where Jew & Gentile become one in the Body of Christ. Also the making of the Body and its eternal inheritance was definitely not known.

 

[sovereigngrace]

OK. Sorry it seems like that. I will take note of what you say and see if I tend to do that. Thanks for pointing that out, (politely).

Now we both agree that Jesus is God`s good news and as you said some of the message was veiled to the OT saints. Probably what I am referring to is that the Body of Christ was NOT revealed previously, so that part of God`s great plan was not known.

Is that better explained?

OK. Thanks. I know what you are saying, or trying to say, but I am struggling at you divorcing the OT and NT saints. I believe we were united in Christ with His appearing. The revelation of the ekklesia was not a NT revelation, but an ongoing OT reality also.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Thank you jgr. Yes this topic has not been treated before so I`m pleased you have brought it up.

So let`s go to Col. 1: 16 -

`For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether THRONES or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and FOR Him.`(Col. 1: 16)

The Eternal Throne - meaning God`s power and authority. That is obviously before and beyond His created order.

The Third heaven - Lucifer had a throne there. (Isa. 14: 12 & 13 `O Lucifer.....I will exalt my throne above...) The Father will set up a throne there for His Son. (Rev. 4:2 `a throne set in heaven.`) & appoint Him King. (Ps. 2: 6 `I have set me King on my holy hill of Mount Zion.`) Other throne will be there also. (Rev. 4: 4 `Around the throne were 24 thrones...`)

The Universe - the city coming down out of heaven from God. `...the throne of God and of the lamb..` (Rev. 22: 1) The 12 throne of the 12 apostles. (Matt. 19: 28 `you ....will also sit on 12 throne judging the 12 tribes of Israel.)

The Earth - Kings of the nations. (Rev. 21: 24 `the kings of the earth bring their glory & honour into it.`) Israel`s king. (2 Sam. 7: 16 your house and your kingdom shall be established forever before you. Your throne shall be established forever.`)

I'm not grasping what you are trying to say. Are you suggesting that there are three thrones operating at the one time in three locations?

 

[sovereigngrace]

Paul was referring to the Gentiles coming to the Lord but it in no way reveals the Body of Christ where Jew & Gentile become one in the Body of Christ. Also the making of the Body and its eternal inheritance was definitely not known.

He was describing the NT Church (the body of Christ) from a restricted perspective.

 

[Marilyn C]

OK. Thanks. I know what you are saying, or trying to say, but I am struggling at you divorcing the OT and NT saints. I believe we were united in Christ with His appearing. The revelation of the ekklesia was not a NT revelation, but an ongoing OT reality also.

Ok we are starting to hear each other. Good. So can you tell me was God unable to fulfil His purpose for the nation of Israel? Yes individuals came to Him, but as a nation they have not as yet received their Messiah. So are you saying that will never happen and God wasted His time in working with the nation for centuries?

 

[sovereigngrace]

Where you and many others go wrong, is in the expectation of a resurrection and immortality before the final Judgment, the GWT; AFTER the Millennium.
We born again Christians do have the Lords Promise of this, John 3:16, but nowhere is it said that we receive it at any time before that. Revelation 20:11-15

Not so! It is you that has invented your own innovative doctrine (that no other Christian I know believes) to support your own speculative reasoning. It is you that is out of step with Scripture and orthodoxy.

 

[Marilyn C]

I'm not grasping what you are trying to say. Are you suggesting that there are three thrones operating at the one time in three locations?

The word `throne,` denotes power and authority. And we know that God the Father would have all power and authority under His Son. Thus in every realm we are told that His power and authority will be there. It is shown by the word `throne.` We know the Lord does not sit on a seat in heaven, but it is His power and authority that is over all and through all.

 

[Marilyn C]

He was describing the NT Church (the body of Christ) from a restricted perspective.

Yes the Apostle Paul was given the revelation of the Body of Christ. (Eph. 3: 1 - 7)

 

[sovereigngrace]

Ok we are starting to hear each other. Good. So can you tell me was God unable to fulfil His purpose for the nation of Israel? Yes individuals came to Him, but as a nation they have not as yet received their Messiah. So are you saying that will never happen and God wasted His time in working with the nation for centuries?

Israel’s propensity to go after false gods, worship idols, sacrifice their children to the fire and embrace devils, even when God was moving in their midst, is breathtaking. It is hard to view the special favor that rested upon natural Israel, including the blessing and truth they incessantly enjoyed, and then understand their habitual determination to do their own thing and follow Satan. It simply doesn’t make sense. It is only when we realize that ultimate favor with God only came through knowing Him personally and walking in obedience with Him. To this end, the majority of Israelites are customarily portrayed as not knowing real union and communion with God. Notwithstanding, God always had an enlightened people within the camp of Israel. They were a believing “remnant” that lived in the midst of an oft apostate nation. This was normally a small company of faithful Israelis.

This is all summed up in Isaiah 1:9, where we learned: “Except the LORD of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.” If God didn’t have an elect seed, Israel would have been wiped off the face of the map like Sodom. Graciously, there was always an ongoing elect people within Israel that had eyes to see and ears to hear. They were God’s true chosen covenant people.

The remnant congregation can be found throughout Scripture and relates to God’s true elect people throughout time. This is the invisible spiritual element among the visible congregation of God in both testaments. We are looking at the people of God (both Hebrew and Gentile) in both covenant economies. This is the household of faith in history. The true people of God are all those who know God and enjoy a personal covenant relationship with Him. Since the fall, God has dealt with man on the same basis throughout human history. From Adam to the end of time, salvation has always been by grace, through faith.

Before we go any further, we should establish that a remnant is: ‘a small remaining quantity of something’. In a biblical sense, the remnant is the true believing people of God situated among the overall professing camp of outward devotees throughout time. It refers to those who are true to God despite surrounding compromise and/or opposition.

In the Old Testament, they were the genuine believing portion amongst national Israel. While this included Gentile converts, they were required to integrate themselves into the theocratic structure of ethnic Israel. That did not mean salvation was acquired through Israeli nationality, no, only that God’s favor was typically realized within the parameters of that small specially-chosen country. Of course, Nineveh is a notable exception.

There is a big difference between the nation being chosen to manifest the glory of God and an individual being chosen to manifest the glory of God. The choosing of Israel did not guarantee salvation for every single Israeli living there (as we can see through many passages in the Old Testament and the New Testament) – it simply demonstrated their favored position amongst the nations. The election of the individual in salvation is different; it is secured before the foundation of the earth and ensures the elect will spend all eternity with the Lord.

Under the new covenant, the “remnant” concept overflowed Israel’s borders and took on a global identity. It expanded out to a darkened Gentile world. It relates to the people of God from throughout the nations, irrespective of nationality, within the outward professing New Testament Church. John Gay explains in an article Remnant Theology: “When Gentiles become spiritual descendants of Abraham through faith in Jesus Christ, they become part of this subset also, part of remnant Israel. That believing Gentiles are placed within remnant Israel is clearly shown by Paul's illustration of the olive tree.”

 

[keras]

Not so! It is you that has invented your own innovative doctrine (that no other Christian I know believes) to support your own speculative reasoning. It is you that is out of step with Scripture and orthodoxy.

You, and all those other people you know are wrong.
Proved by how you simply don't have any scripture to show that God will confer immortality or 'glorified bodies' onto anyone before the Judgment; AFTER the Millennium.
That idea is quite illogical, as having immortals and mortals together in the Millennium is untenable. And don't say we go to heaven either; Jesus said that was impossible. John 3:13

 

[Marilyn C]

Israel’s propensity to go after false gods, worship idols, sacrifice their children to the fire and embrace devils, even when God was moving in their midst, is breathtaking. It is hard to view the special favor that rested upon natural Israel, including the blessing and truth they incessantly enjoyed, and then understand their habitual determination to do their own thing and follow Satan. It simply doesn’t make sense. It is only when we realize that ultimate favor with God only came through knowing Him personally and walking in obedience with Him. To this end, the majority of Israelites are customarily portrayed as not knowing real union and communion with God. Notwithstanding, God always had an enlightened people within the camp of Israel. They were a believing “remnant” that lived in the midst of an oft apostate nation. This was normally a small company of faithful Israelis.

This is all summed up in Isaiah 1:9, where we learned: “Except the LORD of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah.” If God didn’t have an elect seed, Israel would have been wiped off the face of the map like Sodom. Graciously, there was always an ongoing elect people within Israel that had eyes to see and ears to hear. They were God’s true chosen covenant people.

The remnant congregation can be found throughout Scripture and relates to God’s true elect people throughout time. This is the invisible spiritual element among the visible congregation of God in both testaments. We are looking at the people of God (both Hebrew and Gentile) in both covenant economies. This is the household of faith in history. The true people of God are all those who know God and enjoy a personal covenant relationship with Him. Since the fall, God has dealt with man on the same basis throughout human history. From Adam to the end of time, salvation has always been by grace, through faith.

Before we go any further, we should establish that a remnant is: ‘a small remaining quantity of something’. In a biblical sense, the remnant is the true believing people of God situated among the overall professing camp of outward devotees throughout time. It refers to those who are true to God despite surrounding compromise and/or opposition.

In the Old Testament, they were the genuine believing portion amongst national Israel. While this included Gentile converts, they were required to integrate themselves into the theocratic structure of ethnic Israel. That did not mean salvation was acquired through Israeli nationality, no, only that God’s favor was typically realized within the parameters of that small specially-chosen country. Of course, Nineveh is a notable exception.

There is a big difference between the nation being chosen to manifest the glory of God and an individual being chosen to manifest the glory of God. The choosing of Israel did not guarantee salvation for every single Israeli living there (as we can see through many passages in the Old Testament and the New Testament) – it simply demonstrated their favored position amongst the nations. The election of the individual in salvation is different; it is secured before the foundation of the earth and ensures the elect will spend all eternity with the Lord.

Under the new covenant, the “remnant” concept overflowed Israel’s borders and took on a global identity. It expanded out to a darkened Gentile world. It relates to the people of God from throughout the nations, irrespective of nationality, within the outward professing New Testament Church. John Gay explains in an article Remnant Theology: “When Gentiles become spiritual descendants of Abraham through faith in Jesus Christ, they become part of this subset also, part of remnant Israel. That believing Gentiles are placed within remnant Israel is clearly shown by Paul's illustration of the olive tree.”

Thank you for your quite detailed and well thought out comments. I have 2 points to make.

1. Why did God bother to make the nation of Israel in the first place, (& give over most of the Bible to it)? Why did God in His foresight just not go to the main plan - all of us.

2. The Olive tree root is Christ as only He is holy and can nourish us. (Rom. 11: 16 & 17)

`the root is holy....become partakers of the root and fatness of the olive tree.`