20 major reasons to reject the Premillennial doctrine

[Spiritual Jew]

I have done that. I have written over 800 articles about the Prophetic Word, using ALL the Bible prophesies.

Do you know that you have told us this several times already? You come across as very prideful. Why do you feel the need to tell us how many articles you've written as if that means anything if the articles do not present the truth?

Matthew 25:31-45 describes the scene after Jesus Returns and during the Millennium, as Zechariah 14:16-21 describes.

You didn't answer my question. I asked how Matthew 25:41 and Revelation 20:15 could be speaking of different events. It's clear that Matthew 25:41 occurs when Christ returns, so why can you not see that is when Revelation 20:15 will occur as well since those two verses refer to the same event?

Matthew 25:46 describes the scene at the GWT Judgment, after the Millennium. Rev 20:15, as you say.

It's quite clear that Matthew 25:46 describes the same people described in Matthew 25:34 and Matthew 25:41 and simply gives a little more detail as to their destinies. In terms of the goats who will be cast into "everlasting fire" (Matt 25:41) they will experience "everlasting punishment" (Matt 25:46). In terms of the sheep who inherit the kingdom prepared for them from the foundation of the world (Matt 25:34), they will receive "eternal life" (Matt 25:46) which shows that the kingdom they inherit will be eternal.

Remember that Bible prophecy is a little here, a little there, and needs to be discerned as to what belongs where.

Of course, but there is no basis for concluding that any of Matthew 25:31-46 will occur at any time except for when Christ returns. There is no indication whatsoever within that passage that anything described there would happen long after He returns.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

I have quoted plenty of scripture, very few of my posts have no Bible quotes.

You almost always just quote the chapters and verses, but you don't quote the scripture text itself. Why is that? It would be helpful for you to quote the actual text sometimes and show what parts of the text you think support your view. But you rarely do that.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

There is no problem with the theology I adhere to.
It is simply believing the Words as Written. Revelation 20:4-5 is a plain statement: Only the Trib martyrs will be resurrected at the Return. ALL the rest of the dead must wait until the 1000 years is over.

There is corroboration for this in other scriptures. Job says he will be vindicated at the end of time, Paul says it will be at the Last Trump, when the resurrection of all the dead happens and the Judgment takes place.

It is at the last trumpet that the dead in Christ will be raised.

1 Cor 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Other scripture indicates that the dead in Christ will be raised when Christ returns, but you don't have them being raised until 1000+ years after His return.

1 Cor 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

1 Thess 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

It's beyond obvious that the dead in Christ will be raised at His return. You correctly recognize that this will happen at the last trump. But, for some reason, you don't recognize that He will return at the last trump, which is the same "trump of God" that Paul references in 1 Thess 4:16.

You seem to try to explain this away with your "Trib martyrs" view which Paul apparently had no knowledge about. You won't acknowledge that your doctrine contradicts what Paul taught regarding the timing of the resurrection of the dead.

 

[keras]

You seem to try to explain this away with your "Trib martyrs" view which Paul apparently had no knowledge about. You won't acknowledge that your doctrine contradicts what Paul taught regarding the timing of the resurrection of the dead.

There is NO Bible contradiction. Paul never said that ALL the dead would be raised at Jesus Return.
The Last Trump is for everyone who has ever lived to stand before God in Judgment. Revelation 20:11-15

You almost always just quote the chapters and verses, but you don't quote the scripture text itself. Why is that?

This forum has the software to display the verse when it is clicked on.
Typing them out fully, results in too long posts.

You didn't answer my question. I asked how Matthew 25:41 and Revelation 20:15 could be speaking of different events. It's clear that Matthew 25:41 occurs when Christ returns, so why can you not see that is when Revelation 20:15 will occur as well since those two verses refer to the same event?

It is not clear that Matthew 25:41 and 46 will happen at the Return.
We know from Rev 20:15, that they take place after the Millennium.
To think otherwise is error.

Do you know that you have told us this several times already?

Sorry to be repetitive. But I say that to prove my knowledge of ALL the prophesies.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

There is NO Bible contradiction. Paul never said that ALL the dead would be raised at Jesus Return.
The Last Trump is for everyone who has ever lived to stand before God in Judgment. Revelation 20:11-15

He clearly implies that it is all of the dead in Christ being raised at His return since he doesn't mention any other time for any of the dead in Christ to be raised. There is no basis whatsoever for thinking that the resurrected dead He mentions in 1 Cor 15:22-23 are different than the resurrected dead he mentions in 1 Cor 15:51-52. He made it clear in 1 Cor 15:22-23 that the timing of the resurrection of the dead in Christ will be at His return. All he did in 1 Cor 15:50-54 is give further details that He will return at the last trump and that the dead in Christ will be changed at that time along with those who are still alive.

This forum has the software to display the verse when it is clicked on.
Typing them out fully, results in too long posts.

No, it doesn't. I don't think it's too much to ask for you to quote a passage's text and show what part of the text you specifically think supports what you're saying. Otherwise, we can only guess.

It is not clear that Matthew 25:41 and 46 will happen at the Return.

Yes, it is. The timing of Matthew 25:31-46 is made clear from the beginning.

Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

It's quite clear that what is described here will occur when He comes in His glory with His angels. There is no indication here that there will be a long time between His coming and the sheep being separated from the goats. And there's no indication that there is a long time after that when the sheep inherit the kingdom.

When you read on from there the focus shifts to the goats and it's clear that they are judged at the same time and then in verse 41 it says they are sent to the "everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels". So, it's very clear that Matthew 25:41 occurs when Jesus returns. And Matthew 25:46 is not talking about anyone besides the goats experiencing "everlasting punishment". He was describing the goats from verses 41 to 45, so it's obviously them that He's referencing in verse 46 who go away into everlasting punishment at that time.

We know from Rev 20:15, that they take place after the Millennium.
To think otherwise is error.

How many times do I have to tell you that I agree that Matthew 25:41,46 must happen after the Millennium since they are the same event as Rev 20:15? I've told you that several times before. But, where we differ is that I see that scripture indicates the timing of that to be when Christ comes with His angels, as Matthew 25:31-46 indicates.

Sorry to be repetitive. But I say that to prove my knowledge of ALL the prophesies.

Writing 800 articles doesn't prove anything except that you like to write a lot of articles. There are plenty of people who have written even more articles than you have and they don't agree with your doctrine, so the number of articles you've written doesn't prove anything.

 

[keras]

Writing 800 articles doesn't prove anything except that you like to write a lot of articles. There are plenty of people who have written even more articles than you have and they don't agree with your doctrine, so the number of articles you've written doesn't prove anything.

The difference is in when they were written. It was only in 2010 that I had the inspiration to write what I have. We are now in the time of great changes and soon the end time events will commence.
Writings before that date were not at the time of the end, as Daniel 12:4 & 9 tells us: the prophesies were sealed.
Daniel 12:10 says that some people will understand then.

You may object to the idea of anyone knowing some things that you don't. The only thing I can do about that, is to post the Bible truths and let the Holy Spirit open eyes and unstop ears.
But for anyone who refuses to open their mind to the prophesies, understanding will not be given. Isaiah 29:9-12

As for who will be resurrected when Jesus Returns, I stand firmly by the clear statement of Revelation 20:4-5

 

[sovereigngrace]

The difference is in when they were written. It was only in 2010 that I had the inspiration to write what I have. We are now in the time of great changes and soon the end time events will commence.
Writings before that date were not at the time of the end, as Daniel 12:4 & 9 tells us: the prophesies were sealed.
Daniel 12:10 says that some people will understand then.

You may object to the idea of anyone knowing some things that you don't. The only thing I can do about that, is to post the Bible truths and let the Holy Spirit open eyes and unstop ears.
But for anyone who refuses to open their mind to the prophesies, understanding will not be given. Isaiah 29:9-12

As for who will be resurrected when Jesus Returns, I stand firmly by the clear statement of Revelation 20:4-5

But they are not true! They contradict repeated Scripture. When this is shown, you typical ignore the rebuttals, and imagine avoidance advances the veracity of your theories, when it fact it exposes how bereft they are of biblical support. What is more, after sidestepping weakness after weakness in your arguments, and after the dust has settled, you transpire to resurrect your arguments again as if they still (somehow) have credibility with the observer. They don't! Until you address the holes in your position and actually present valid Scripture we have the right to dismiss your boastings. It is wrong to keep repeating the same error. Some of us have written a lot more than 800 articles that refute Premil. So I am not sure why you would boast about such a figure or think that proves anything.

 

[keras]

But they are not true! They contradict repeated Scripture.

My articles are true, they do promote the Prophetic Word.
You and anyone have yet to prove from scripture where I have posted anything contrary to the Bible.
What I do post contrary to; is peoples wrong beliefs and false doctrines.

I am simply stating a fact when I say what I have written. Many others have written much more, but the difference is in the truth of what the prophets actually wrote and the opinions of all the expositors until now.
You object because the prophets don't say what you think, or conform to your beliefs.

 

[sovereigngrace]

My articles are true, they do promote the Prophetic Word.
You and anyone have yet to prove from scripture where I have posted anything contrary to the Bible.
What I do post contrary to; is peoples wrong beliefs and false doctrines.

I am simply stating a fact when I say what I have written. Many others have written much more, but the difference is in the truth of what the prophets actually wrote and the opinions of all the expositors until now.
You object because the prophets don't say what you think, or conform to your beliefs.

You are mixing up the difference between your opinion and what Scripture actually states. If you let the Bible speak for itself then you might realize what you have with the date of the Crucifixion that facts are stubborn things.

 

[keras]

You are mixing up the difference between your opinion and what Scripture actually states. If you let the Bible speak for itself then you might realize what you have with the date of the Crucifixion that facts are stubborn things.

Your unmitigated opinion.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Your unmitigated opinion.

All 20 points challenging Premil stand resolute. It is up to you or some Premil to show where I am wrong.

 

[keras]

All 20 points challenging Premil stand resolute. It is up to you or some Premil to show where I am wrong.

I stand resolute that Jesus will Return as He has promised and He will then reign as the World ruler for the next 1000 years.
There is no 'rapture to heaven' for the Church, prophesied in the Bible.

 

[sovereigngrace]

I stand resolute that Jesus will Return as He has promised and He will then reign as the World ruler for the next 1000 years.
There is no 'rapture to heaven' for the Church, prophesied in the Bible.

So what happens to the saints when He comes?

 

[keras]

So what happens to the saints when He comes?

The dead saints from Adam until now, have to wait until the GWT Judgment, after the Millennium. Excepting the GT martyrs, who will be raised back to mortal life by Jesus at His Return.
The living people of God, who mostly will be those kept in a place of safety during the 1260 days of the GT, will be gathered to Jerusalem, as Matthew 4:30-31 and 1 Thess 4:17 tell us.

 

[sovereigngrace]

The dead saints from Adam until now, have to wait until the GWT Judgment, after the Millennium. Excepting the GT martyrs, who will be raised back to mortal life by Jesus at His Return.
The living people of God, who mostly will be those kept in a place of safety during the 1260 days of the GT, will be gathered to Jerusalem, as Matthew 4:30-31 and 1 Thess 4:17 tell us.

There is no Matthew 4:30-31. That maybe says it all! Also, 1 Thess 4:17 says absolutely nothing to support your speculations.

 

[Timtofly]

All 20 points challenging Premil stand resolute. It is up to you or some Premil to show where I am wrong.

Personal opinion is not Scripture. Remove the 17 personal opinions, then you may have 3 private interpretations to contend for.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Personal opinion is not Scripture. Remove the 17 personal opinions, then you may have 3 private interpretations to contend for.

They are all solid biblical realities that expose Premil. That is why you and others Premils cannot rebut them. This is an ongoing evidence of the error of Premil.

 

[Timtofly]

They are all solid biblical realities that expose Premil. That is why you and others Premils cannot rebut them. This is an ongoing evidence of the error of Premil.

Since no Scripture is presented, per your own demands, such points are only your opinion. That is your own requirement. No one is forcing themselves to live by your demands. Do you not accept your own points to live up to your standards?

 

[sovereigngrace]

Since no Scripture is presented, per your own demands, such points are only your opinion. That is your own requirement. No one is forcing themselves to live by your demands. Do you not accept your own points to live up to your standards?

Please read again.. They actually expose how bereft Premil is of biblical support.

 

[Timtofly]

Please read again.. They actually expose how bereft Premil is of biblical support.

Still only your opinion. Many people on earth have a different opinion than yours, and many are not even pre-mill. If the point being made has no Biblical support, it is also bereft of Biblical support. Exposing one's opinion is not really that hard to point out. Just type the words, "that is your opinion". Seems to work for a lot of online posters.