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20 major reasons to reject the Premillennial doctrine

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by sovereigngrace, May 15, 2020.

  1. sovereigngrace

    sovereigngrace Well-Known Member

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    Because of their literalist approach, Premils do not grasp Revelation.
     
  2. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You claim to be a literalist.

    But you deny the literal word "souls" used in Revelation 6:9 and elsewhere.

    So you have no idea what you are.

    However, Scripture does.

    1 Corinthians 2:14
    But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
     
  3. sovereigngrace

    sovereigngrace Well-Known Member

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  4. sovereigngrace

    sovereigngrace Well-Known Member

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    You claim to be a literalist but you deny that time shall be no more at the last trumpet - the climactic return of Christ.
     
  5. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    Are you proving the point: a soul dies? A soul goes from one body to another body because the body dies. John did not see their old dead corruptible physical body, yet he was describing how that old body led to the soul loosing it's earthly tent, as Paul describes the corruptible body.
     
  6. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    He was describing how they died, not how the looked at the moment he saw them. You cannot divorce the symbolism to prove a point. The symbolism was describing how their old bodies were killed. Taking a fact out of context and creating doctrine is not wise. We know from other Scriptures a soul has a body. Jesus is not currently a bodiless soul. Why would those in Christ be only half resurrected? We are just like Christ in Paradise, not half like Christ. Or one third like Christ. John figures you are understanding all of Scripture. Not taking his words out of context and creating private interpretation. This is symbolism, not literal souls only a third "saved".
     
  7. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    And using the word soul is symbolic of the full incorruptible body of those currently in Paradise. John was not singleling out only those martyred. He saw the whole church being glorified. That is what putting on of our spirit does. Our spirit wraps around the incorruptible body. The church is not glorified bit by bit. It is done at one time, at the Second Coming. Paul explains both in 1 Corinthians 15. The incorruptible is the physical body. The immortal is the putting on of our spirit. The full image of God, not just an eternal soul naked without body and spirit.
     
  8. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    And because of their literalist approach, posters here do not discern between the soul as being symbolic of how they died and that it is literally not just a bodiless ghost. This soul has an incorruptible body.
     
  9. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    Nope. I take Scripture as a whole and do not break out single words and form doctrine with private interpretation.

    John is describing symbolically how they died. He was not literally looking at a soul without a body. That would be turning a symbolic phrase into a private literal interpretation.
     
  10. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    There's no interpretation more private than an interpretation which attempts to replace (via replacement ideology) the existent inspired word "souls" with a nonexistent private uninspired conjured delusional word "bodies".

    That's as private as interpretation can get.
     
  11. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Mat_10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.


    .
     
  12. sovereigngrace

    sovereigngrace Well-Known Member

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    Not so. We are only glorified at the second coming. You have been presented with multiple Scriptures that show this and have failed to acknowledge one. In response, you have furnished us with zero Scripture that supports your position. Like your 8-day theory, you seem to think you saying it repeatedly means it is fact. That is not the way it works.
     
  13. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    Well you can hold to symbolism, but you are the one who thinks John is seeing bodiless entities. You are changing Scripture to read what it does not. John is not being literal, but symbolic.
     
  14. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    I said the church was only glorified at the Second Coming.

    You all are the one claiming they need bodies as well. The body is not glorified. The soul is not glorified. The soul and body are joined with the spirit, as the spirit is the robe of white symbolism.

    Revelation 6:11

    "And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled."

    The robe of white is the spirit and the glorified complete image as a son of God. No one is currently wearing a white robe. They do have an incorruptible body in Paradise.
     
  15. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Revelation 1:10
    10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet

    In the Spirit, John could see spiritual realities.

    Such as souls.

    Congrats. You've just won today's guffaw du jour prize.

    It's one of the bodies that only you have been seeing.
     
  16. sovereigngrace

    sovereigngrace Well-Known Member

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    A glorified body is an incorruptible body. It never dies or decays. The second coming is redemption day for the bodies of the elect.

    Hebrews 11 speaks about the day we receive our incorruptible bodies along with the OT saints:

    40God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

    Read Romans 8:

    18¶For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
    19For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
    20For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
    21Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
    22For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
    23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
     
  17. sovereigngrace

    sovereigngrace Well-Known Member

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    A disembodied life is a soul. Read Revelation 20. All the redeemed receive their glorified incorruptible bodies together at the second coming.
     
  18. keras

    keras Writer of studies on Bible prophecy

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    You don't provide any scriptural support for this assertion, because there isn't any.
    The ONLY time that anyone other that Jesus is given immortality, is at the final Judgment, after the Millennium. Revelation 20:11-15
     
  19. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    So you do not have a soul, because it cannot be seen unless in the Spirit? The soul is a physical reality because it makes physical post on a physical internet forum. I do not need to be in the spirit to see your soul putting a lot of effort into your post. I see your soul quite clearly.

    Did John's physical eyes see, and his physical hands write on a physical substance what he saw? Being caught up in the Spirit is not the same physical experience as being filled with the Spirit. At the Second Coming it would seem we would want to be caught up physically, and not just filled with the Holy Spirit.

    If you accept he was caught up, then obviously he was brought to this time frame as well, since it was a physical experience. Caught up being as real for John then as it will be for those dead souls, because they are in dead corruptible bodies, at the Second Coming. It will be physical not just a "spiritual encounter".
     
  20. Timtofly

    Timtofly Well-Known Member

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    So you do not accept we have a soul, body and spirit? It is just a soul and body? The spirit and body are the same part of a two part being?
     
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