2 Timothy 4:1 translation

[LittleLambofJesus]

While translating Revelation using the greek texts, I noticed this greek word #3195.

I decided to see where other forms of this word is used and noticed it used in Romans 5 and 2 Timothy 4. Why the heck does the NKJV translate it 2 different ways!!!

I like this interlinear mainly for finding EXACT forms of hebrew/greek words and where they are used in the Bible but it uses the W-H MS for the Greek:

http://www.scripture4all.org/

[Tex-Rec] Romans 5:14 But reigns the death from Adam until Moses and upon the ones no sinning upon the likeness of the transgression of Adam who is a type of the one-being-about/mellontoV <3195> (5723).

NKJV) Romans 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.

TexRec) Romans 5:14 all ebasileusen o qanatoV apo adam mecri mwsewV kai epi touV mh amarthsantaV epi tw omoiwmati thV parabasewV adam oV estin tupoV tou mellontoV

[Tex-Rec] 2 Timothy 4:1 Thru-witnessing then I, before the GOD and the Lord Jesus Christ of the one-being-about/mellontoV <3195> (5723) to be judging living-ones and dead-ones according as the appearance/manifestation of Him and the Kingdom of Him.

NKJV) 2 Timothy 4:1 I charge [you] therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom:

TexRec) 2 Timothy 4:1 diamarturomai oun egw enwpion tou qeou kai tou kuriou ihsou cristou tou mellontoV krinein zwntaV kai nekrouV kata thn epifaneian autou kai thn basileian autou

http://www.olivetree.com/cgi-bin/EnglishBible.htm
Greek texts taken from here

3195. mello mel'-lo a strengthened form of 3199 (through the idea of expectation); to intend, i.e. be about to be, do, or suffer something (of persons or things, especially events; in the sense of purpose, duty, necessity, probability, possibility, or hesitation):--about, after that, be (almost), (that which is, things, + which was for) to come, intend, was to (be), mean, mind, be at the point, (be) ready, + return, shall (begin), (which, that) should (after, afterwards, hereafter) tarry, which was for, will, would, be yet.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The only 2 versions that appear to render that greek word correctly is Rotherham and Young LT. I have always liked Rotherham's translation as he appeared to follow the hebrew/greek texts more accurately though not always. It seems that "individual" translators render it more accurately than the "group" translators. Thoughts?

TexRec) 2 Timothy 4:1 diamarturomai oun egw enwpion tou qeou kai tou kuriou ihsou cristou tou mellontoV krinein zwntaV kai nekrouV kata thn epifaneian autou kai thn basileian autou


http://www.olivetree.com/cgi-bin/EnglishBible.htm

Rotherham) 2 Timothy 4:1 I adjure [thee] before God, and Christ Jesus--Who is about to be judging living and dead,--both as to his forthshining and his kingdom,

Young) 2 Timothy 4:1 I do fully testify, then, before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who is about to judge living and dead at his manifestation and his reign--

Darby) 2 Timothy 4:1 I testify before God and Christ Jesus, who is about to judge living and dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom,

NASB) 2 Timothy 4:1 I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom:

KJV) 2 Timothy 4:1 I charge [thee] therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

RSV) 2 Timothy 4:1 I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom:

ASV) 2 Timothy 4:1 I charge [thee] in the sight of God, and of Christ Jesus, who shall judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom

 

[DailyBlessings]

Not all Greek words have a direct translation into English. Especially prepositions, and definitely adverbial phrases like mello, which can change their meaning based on their tense or the words and phrases around them. I think you'll find that many prepositions have a variety of different English translations. Probably individuals are more likely to fall into habits of translation that a committee would realize to be not necessarily accurate. Do we for instance translate "apothen" in Jn 3 as "again" or "from above"? If you have simply decided that the word always means the same thing, one or the other, your decision would depend on what you used before. Both translations, however, are valid, and both senses are used at least somewhere in the classical texts, so it's really just a matter of scriptural interpretation as to which one might use. I think in this case I would concur with the RSV- the literal meaning is the phrase "about to", but the term is also used in phrases in the simpler sense of simple "being" in english, equating action with individual without the implication of time. Timothy is identifying Jesus in his role as the "one who is to" judge,
not predicting an event's imminent occurence.

 

[MrGoodbar]

I concur with Dailyblessings.

I would also add that you have to ask yourself the question: what is accurate? If you're going for a "literal" translation, then you're going to get some stuff that doesn't mean much in english. For example, the demon posessed people that Jesus often encounters in Mark literally say something like "what to you and to me?," an idiom meaning something akin to "what do we have to do with each other?" Yet if I found "what to you and to me?" in a translation, I would hardly consider it accurate, because it doesn't translate any meaning into English.

Second, (as Daily pointed out) the use in John 3 of "anothen" highlights the fact that not only is there not an exact correspondence, but NT authors (particularly John) often play on the duality of meaning of words. The translator has to choose one of 2 or more meanings, when the Greek phrase may have intentionally invited the reader to ponder the difference.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

2 Timothy 4 and Reve 11:18 in conflict with the "1000yr" period:

http://www.scripture4all.org/

[GT] 2 Timothy 4:1 Thru-witnessing then I, before the GOD and the Lord Jesus Christ, of the one-being-about/mellontoV <3195> (5723) to be judging/krinein <2919> (5721) living and dead, according as the appearance/manifestation of Him and the Kingdom of Him

[GT]Reve 11:18 And the nations are angered, and came Thy wrath, and the Time of the dead to be judged/kriqhnai <2919> (5683), and to give the wages to Thy Bond-servants, the prophets, and to the Saints, and to those fearing Thy name, the small, and the great, and to blight the ones blighting the land

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Reve 11 and 14 are also interestin. One verse show the TIME and one verse shows the HOUR. This means everything would happen BEFORE the 1000yr period, including the "Judging" it seems.

http://www.scripture4all.org/

[GT] 2 Timothy 4:1 Thru-witnessing then I, before the GOD and the Lord Jesus Christ, of the one-being-about/mellontoV <3195> (5723) to be judging/krinein <2919> (5721) living and dead, according as the appearance/manifestation of Him and the Kingdom of Him

[GT] Reve 11:18 And the nations are angered, and came/hlqen <2064> (5627) Thy wrath, and the Time of the dead to be judged/kriqhnai <2919> (5683), and to give the wages to Thy Bond-servants, the prophets, and to the Saints, and to those fearing Thy name, the small, and the great, and to blight the ones blighting the land

[GT] Reve 14:7 saying in great sound: "Be being fearful! of the God, and be Ye giving! to Him glory, that came/hlqen <2064> (5627) the Hour of His judging/krisewV <2920>. And worship Ye! to the One-making the heaven and the land and sea and springs of waters".

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I also found the tense used in the word for "judging" to be the same. This has to put a crimp in that amill doctrine it seems.

http://www.scripture4all.org/

2 Timothy 4:1 Thru-witnessing then I, before the GOD and the Lord Jesus Christ, of the one-being-about/mellontoV <3195> (5723) to be judging/krinein <2919> (5721) living and dead, according as the appearance/manifestation of Him and the Kingdom of Him

Reve 19:11 And I perceived the heaven having be opened and Lo! A horse, white and the One sitting on it/him being called Faithful-one and True-one and in justice He is judging/krinei <2919> (5719) and is battling.

http://www.gotquestions.org/amillennialism.html

According to Amillennialism, the millennium of Revelation 20:1–6 is being fulfilled spiritually in the present age before the return of Jesus Christ. Thus, the millennium or kingdom of Christ is in existence now. Amillennialists affirm that the millennium began with the resurrection and/or ascension of Christ and will be consummated when Jesus returns again to establish the Eternal Kingdom that is discussed in Revelation 21–22.

 

[Chickapee]

Hi Little Lamb ,
One thing I believe and why i enjoy your posts so much is !! , all scriptures when in Faith and obedience interpeted as being ALIVE [quickining ] to us and when the we hear what the Spirit is saying is '' IS PRESENT TENSE'' this to me is faith in motion or the ''works of faith '' purposed in God ..

the reason I understand this to be so
is this one scripture here that was a powerful TRUTH , to me at the time of ''healing ''by the Lord His self , ears to hear , spiritually speaking , eyes to see [perciving ] awaking from sleep as the old Adam was in deep sleep ...Gen 15:12 even Abram was also in this type of sleep before the time and Gods dealings with ,and his name changed to ABRAHAM by the Lord ,,,
perceive - Definitions from Dictionary.com
and ''heart'' Mind to understand , all Given by the Lord 's power and Spirit ..
Hbr 11:6 But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that comes to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
To me also the Hebrews [book of chaptres] is all about explaining and directing the NEW COVENANT to us

I am trying somthing new today , lol to actually ''just talk '' as plainly as possible ,seems so much is lost in translation .. hee hee I dont have anyone to talk to ..lol
not sure how scriptures4all says this , but in reading this verse and the above verse together , Im seeing a connection
Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
this present tense , Spirit of God and His Christ working in our lives together , by Pauls acknowledgment in this verse .....Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

and I love Romans 8 by the way , whoohooo!
having this present expectation with Future hope
of promises of God fulfilling , makes a very desirable course to follow
just my thoughts on this today , have enjoyed your efforts in making this '' wonderful point ''
and wanted to respond , God bless and Love in Christ C ...

 

[MrGoodbar]

I also found the tense used in the word for "judging" to be the same. This has to put a crimp in that amill doctrine it seems.

Howso?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Hi Little Lamb ,
One thing I believe and why i enjoy your posts so much is !! , all scriptures when in Faith and obedience interpeted as being ALIVE [quickining ] to us and when the we hear what the Spirit is saying is '' IS PRESENT TENSE'' this to me is faith in motion or the ''works of faith '' purposed in God ..

Thanks for that inspiring post!!! I too have found a lot of the tenses mistranslated in both the greek and hebrews.
1 corin 15:22 is interesting as it shows the old adam is continually "dying" while those in Christ are being continually made alive, perhaps some just quicker than others.
I still do not know why Bible version do not use "adam" whenever it is shown in the hebrew. Thoughts?

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Genesis 1:26 And Elohiym is saying "We shall make 'adam in our image, after our likeness"
27 And 'Elohiym is creating the-'adam in image of Him, in image of 'Elohiym He creates/bara' him, male and female He creates/bara' them

Genesis 2:7 And YHWH 'Elohiym is forming the 'adam with soil/dust/06083 `aphar from the ground/0127 'adamah, and He is blowing in nostrils of him breath of lives, and the 'adam is becoming to soul of living.

1 Corinthians 15:22 For just as in the Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all shall be being made alive.

 

[MrGoodbar]

I think you're reading way too much into the present infinitive "krinein."

 

[Chickapee]

Thanks for that inspiring post!!! I too have found a lot of the tenses mistranslated in both the greek and hebrews.
1 corin 15:22 is interesting as it shows the old adam is continually "dying" while those in Christ are being continually made alive, perhaps some just quicker than others.
I still do not know why Bible version do not use "adam" whenever it is shown in the hebrew. Thoughts?

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Genesis 1:26 And Elohiym is saying "We shall make 'adam in our image, after our likeness"
27 And 'Elohiym is creating the-'adam in image of Him, in image of 'Elohiym He creates/bara' him, male and female He creates/bara' them

Genesis 2:7 And YHWH 'Elohiym is forming the 'adam with soil/dust/06083 `aphar from the ground/0127 'adamah, and He is blowing in nostrils of him breath of lives, and the 'adam is becoming to soul of living.

Very interesting Lamb!! , seeing also the ''nostrils ''being [anger of the face ] in adam soul living hummm ?

wondering if when Paul spoke of the adding to all these things , the changing being made known ? manifested openly ... the dying adam [old man] and the new man inwardly Christ in you the Hope of Glory,, to GOD !!!
i love romans ! all of them chapters

Rom 5:1 -21 love this chapter

peace C

 

[Chickapee]

I think you're reading way too much into the present infinitive "krinein."

how so mrGoodbar ?
please im listening .. thanks
peace C.........

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

how so mrGoodbar ?
please im listening .. thanks
peace C.........

I would like to hear more on that myself.

 

[MrGoodbar]

First off, sorry for the curt post. I meant to type more of an explanation, but got tired, and didn't realize I actually posted it. That said,

You're saying krinein is translated about "to be judging," which would be a valid translation for a present active infinitive, but you could also (and I would lean toward) render it about "to judge" for it seems to make more sense within the context. Either are acceptable translations for the PAI, for it does seem to imply a present continuing action. However,

In narration, the NT authors frequently use the present tense of verbs. Clearly, if telling a story, we would use past tense (In Greek, the aorist tense) to describe the action. The use of the present active in narration is often referred to as the "historical present" and rendered in English as the past tense. John is describing his vision here so...

My point is not that you are necessarily wrong, but that it really doesn't lend itself to a theological slant either way. Tenses in Greek don't necessarily mean what they mean to us in English, and this one word doesn't really support the theological weight put on it.

Hope that makes sense...

 

[Chickapee]

Thanks for the reply MrGoodbar
seems they are the same ?

You're saying krinein is translated about "to be judging," which would be a valid translation for a present active infinitive, but you could also (and I would lean toward) render it about "to judge" for it seems to make more sense within the context. Either are acceptable translations for the PAI, for it does seem to imply a present continuing action.

I have faith in Jesus in the now and present
cause of this verse , not sure how its translated in greek though ??
Hbr 11:6 But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

this seems as a present tense to me by His Spirit

hope you understand my stance , God bless , C

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Thanks for the reply MrGoodbar
seems they are the same ?

I have faith in Jesus in the now and present
cause of this verse , not sure how its translated in greek though ??
Hbr 11:6 But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

this seems as a present tense to me by His Spirit

hope you understand my stance , God bless , C

Hi chickapee! Yes they are the same in the greek.

And you know how I like to go to the Greek

Here is that verse word-for-word, and I do use the tenses in that interlinear as they do appear to be fairly accurate, but unfortunately, tenses are not my specialty.

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Hebrews 11:6 cwriV <5565> {APART-FROM} de <1161> {YET} pistewV <4102> {FAITH} adunaton <102> {UNABLE} euaresthsai <2100> (5658) {TO WELL PLEASE} pisteusai <4100> (5658) {TO FAITH} gar <1063> {FOR} dei <1163> (5904) {IS-BINDING} ton <3588> {THE} prosercomenon <4334> (5740) {ONE-TOWARD-COMING} tw <3588> {TO THE} qew <2316> {GOD} oti <3754> {THAT} estin <2076> (5748) {HE-IS} kai <2532> {AND} toiV <3588> {THOSE} ekzhtousin <1567> (5723) {SEEKING OUT} auton <846> {HIM} misqapodothV <3406> {A REWARDER} ginetai <1096> (5736) {IS BECOMING}

 

[Chickapee]

Hi chickapee! Yes they are the same in the greek.

And you know how I like to go to the Greek

Here is that verse word-for-word, and I do use the tenses in that interlinear as they do appear to be fairly accurate, but unfortunately, tenses are not my specialty.

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Hebrews 11:6 cwriV <5565> {APART-FROM} de <1161> {YET} pistewV <4102> {FAITH} adunaton <102> {UNABLE} euaresthsai <2100> (5658) {TO WELL PLEASE} pisteusai <4100> (5658) {TO FAITH} gar <1063> {FOR} dei <1163> (5904) {IS-BINDING} ton <3588> {THE} prosercomenon <4334> (5740) {ONE-TOWARD-COMING} tw <3588> {TO THE} qew <2316> {GOD} oti <3754> {THAT} estin <2076> (5748) {HE-IS} kai <2532> {AND} toiV <3588> {THOSE} ekzhtousin <1567> (5723) {SEEKING OUT} auton <846> {HIM} misqapodothV <3406> {A REWARDER} ginetai <1096> (5736) {IS BECOMING}

Thanks for sharing this Little Lamb !
you know If the SPIRIT of GOD and His Christ
is present thats all the proof I need

God love you bro .. C

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

[Tex-Rec] 2 Timothy 4:1 Thru-witnessing then I, before the GOD and the Lord Jesus Christ of the one-being-about/mellontoV <3195> (5723) to be judging living-ones and dead-ones according as the appearance/manifestation of Him and the Kingdom of Him.

ASV) Acts 18:14 But when Paul was about to open his mouth, Gallio said unto the Jews, If indeed it were a matter of wrong or of wicked villany, O ye Jews, reason would that I should bear with you:

mellontoV <3195> (5723) This form of "about" used 6 times in NC

Acts 18:14 mellontoV <3195> (5723) {OF BEING ABOUT} de <1161> {YET} tou <3588> {THE} paulou <3972> {PAUL} anoigein <455> (5721) {TO BE OPENING} to <3588> {THE} stoma <4750> {MOUTH,} eipen <2036> (5627) {SAID} o <3588> {THE} galliwn <1058> {GALLIO} proV <4314> {TOWARD} touV <3588> {THE} ioudaiouV <2453> {JUDEANS} ei <1487> {IF} men <3303> {INDEED} oun <3767> {THEN} hn <2258> (5713) {BEING} adikhma <92> {UNRIGHTEOUS/UNJUST} ti <5100> {ANY-SOME} h <2228> {OR} radiourghma <4467> {CRIMINALITY} ponhron <4190> {WICKED,} w <5599> {O} ioudaioi <2453> {JUDEANS} kata <2596> {ACCORDING} logon <3056> {TO-WORDS} an <302> {EVER} hnescomhn <430> (5633) {I SHOULD HAVE BORNE/TOLERATED} umwn <5216> {OF YE}

 

[Chickapee]

ASV) Acts 18:14 But when Paul was about to open his mouth, Gallio said unto the Jews, If indeed it were a matter of wrong or of wicked villany, O ye Jews, reason would that I should bear with you:

mellontoV <3195> (5723) This form of "about" used 6 times in NC

Acts 18:14 mellontoV <3195> (5723) {OF BEING ABOUT} de <1161> {YET} tou <3588> {THE} paulou <3972> {PAUL} anoigein <455> (5721) {TO BE OPENING} to <3588> {THE} stoma <4750> {MOUTH,} eipen <2036> (5627) {SAID} o <3588> {THE} galliwn <1058> {GALLIO} proV <4314> {TOWARD} touV <3588> {THE} ioudaiouV <2453> {JUDEANS} ei <1487> {IF} men <3303> {INDEED} oun <3767> {THEN} hn <2258> (5713) {BEING} adikhma <92> {UNRIGHTEOUS/UNJUST} ti <5100> {ANY-SOME} h <2228> {OR} radiourghma <4467> {CRIMINALITY} ponhron <4190> {WICKED,} w <5599> {O} ioudaioi <2453> {JUDEANS} kata <2596> {ACCORDING} logon <3056> {TO-WORDS} an <302> {EVER} hnescomhn <430> (5633) {I SHOULD HAVE BORNE/TOLERATED} umwn <5216> {OF YE}

Great post Little Lamb !
Root Word (Etymology)

a strengthened form of G3199 (through the idea of expectation !!!!!!!!!!!!
​

what Jesus meant perhaps , by Spirit , where 2 or 3 are gathered in His name He would be in the midst of them
peace C SEEMS the Lord did come to bring divison .. that example of Paul and gallios maybe with the Jews ?

YLC matt 18 ; 12`What think ye? if a man may have an hundred sheep, and there may go astray one of them, doth he not -- having left the ninety-nine, having gone on the mountains -- seek that which is gone astray?



13and if it may come to pass that he doth find it, verily I say to you, that he doth rejoice over it more than over the ninety-nine that have not gone astray;


14so it is not will in presence of your Father who is in the heavens, that one of these little ones may perish.


15`And if thy brother may sin against thee, go and show him his fault between thee and him alone, if he may hear thee, thou didst gain thy brother;


16and if he may not hear, take with thee yet one or two, that by the mouth of two witnesses or three every word may stand.


17`And if he may not hear them, say [it] to the assembly, and if also the assembly he may not hear, let him be to thee as the heathen man and the tax-gatherer.

18`Verily I say to you, Whatever things ye may bind upon the earth shall be having been bound in the heavens, and whatever things ye may loose on the earth shall be having been loosed in the heavens.


19`Again, I say to you, that, if two of you may agree on the earth concerning anything, whatever they may ask -- it shall be done to them from my Father who is in the heavens, 20for where there are two or three gathered together -- to my name, there am I in the midst of them.'