2 Timothy 3:15

[DrBubbaLove]

Exactly. As you say, if our knowledge of the faith of Jesus is what saves us, then even the demons would be saved.

Exactly.
Which is actually a point some Universalist will argue, that even Satan will be saved.

 

[2Timothy2:15]

Of course you don't see it. You are not reading Paul interpretation.

What are you talking about, Paul did not write Isaiah.

 

[Kenneth Redden]

What are you talking about, Paul did not write Isaiah.

Of course not, but the method he uses to understand scripture is in Isaiah as it is in 2 Peter. Paul has shown us this per 2 Peter 3:16, "as they do also the other scriptures". And there is our word, "also," wonder why, maybe; to, "do also".

 

[2Timothy2:15]

Of course not, but the method he uses to understand scripture is in Isaiah as it is in 2 Peter. Paul has shown us this per 2 Peter 3:16, "as they do also the other scriptures".

Ummm Paul did not write 1 or 2nd Peter.

1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

 

[Kenneth Redden]

Ummm Paul did not write 1 or 2nd Peter.

1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

True, but he is the author of the interpretation, see 2 Peter 3:15. And, "beloved brother Paul also," imagine that. Do you think this may have implications with the word, "beloved," in 2 Peter 3:8.

 

[2Timothy2:15]

True, but he is the author of the interpretation, see 2 Peter 3:15. And, "brother Paul also," imagine that.

That is not implying what you think it is.

 

[Kenneth Redden]

That is not implying what you think it is.

And what do think I am implying? It was Paul who got the revelation in Ephesians 3:3. He is the author.

 

[Ron Gurley]

It is a matter of SPIRIT-LED FAITH/BELIEF...the unprovable TRUTH revealed by God, primarily from His supreme Bible.
1. The spirit of Man must ACCEPT the FACT of the Spirit of God.
2. The spirit of Man must ACCEPT the FACT that God communicates with His beloved created Mankind.
3. The spirit of Man must ACCEPT the FACT that through the gift of SPIRIT-LED FAITH/BELIEF, he can learn God's TRUTH.

Ezekiel 18:9 (all NASB)
if he (spiritually) walks in My statutes and My ordinances
so as to deal faithfully
—he is righteous and will surely live (eternally)," declares the LORD God.

Habakkuk 2:4...the righteous will live by his faith.

Romans 1:17
For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith;
as it is written, "But the righteous man shall live by faith."

Romans 10:17...So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

Psalm 78:22...Because they did not believe in God And did not trust in His salvation.

Isaiah 28:16...Therefore thus says the Lord God,
"Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a tested stone, A costly cornerstone
for the foundation, firmly placed. He who believes in it will not be disturbed.

Mark 1:15...(Jesus FIRST preached) and saying,
"The time is fulfilled, and the "kingdom of God" (Jesus! is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel." (Jesus the Divine Messaiah has come!)

John 1:12
But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God,
even to those who believe in His name,

John 3:15-16, 18
..so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son,
that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life....
He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already,
because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 6:29...Jesus answered and said to them,
"This is the "work of God",
that you believe in Him whom He has sent."

John 6:40, 47
For this is the will of My Father,
that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."...
Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

John 11:25-27...Jesus said to her (Martha, sister of Lazarus),
"I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies,and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?
She said to Him,
"Yes, Lord; I have believed that You are the Christ, (the Divine Messaiah) the Son of God,
even He who comes into the world." (from heaven = Deity!)

John 12:44, 46...And Jesus cried out and said,
"He who believes in Me, does not believe in Me but in Him who sent Me...I have come as Light into the world, so that everyone who believes in Me will not remain in darkness.

John 20:31
but these (books) have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.

 

[chilehed]

You must know the meaning, Christ's faith; according to scripture.

Scripture does not provide a definition of the word "faith".

 

[2Timothy2:15]

And what do think I am implying? It was Paul who got the revelation in Ephesians 3:3. He is the author.

You are jumping all over the place and it is exhausting really.

 

[Ron Gurley]

Faith, works or both?

I believe that "FAITH" apart from "WORKS" is nothing and can accomplish nothing,

To Clarify James and what I believe:

(SAVING spirit-led) "Faith" (/ Belief) without (following spiritual good) "works" is "dead" (judged to be spiritually useless.)

Believers are SAVED UNTO "good works"....Ephesians 2. Only their "works" will be JUDGED...John 3, 1+2 Cor.

PLEASE....carefully define both terms very carefully!

This has been done LOTS! For example:

FAITH / BELIEF...spirit-led BEFORE and AFTER salvation

WORKS...spirit-led BEFORE and AFTER salvation VERSUS Man's works alone to commend himself to God

To me, "Belief" and "Faith" as used in the New Testament are almost identical in meaning and synonomous.

"Believe" occurs 152 times in 140 verses in the NASB...mostly in the NT.
G4103 pistos ~= faithful, believe, believing, true, faithfully, believer, sure
G4100 pisteuo = ~believe, commit unto, commit to (one's) trust, be committed unto, be put in trust with, be commited to one's trust, believer

John 1:12 (NASB)
...But as many as RECEIVED Him (spiritually!), to them He gave the right to become children of God ,
even to those who BELIEVE (G4100) in His NAME,...

Romans 10:9,13-15 (NASB)
...that IF you confess (agree with God) with your mouth (mind) Jesus as LORD, AND
BELIEVE (G4100) in your heart (spirit) that God (the Father) raised Him (God the Son) from the dead, you will be SAVED (from eternal estrangement);

....for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

How then will they call on Him in whom they have not BELIEVED?
How will they BELIEVE in Him whom they have not heard?
And how will they hear without a preacher?
How will they preach unless they are sent?

"Faith" occurs 250 times in 232 verses in the NASB ...all but 4 verses in the NT.

G4102 pistis (pe'-stes) = ~faith, assurance, believe, belief, them that believe, fidelity

Hebrews 11 (NASB) ...Biblical examples of The Triumphs of FAITH,,,DEFINITION

1. Now FAITH is the (spiritual) assurance of things HOPED for,
the CONVICTION of things (+ truths) not seen.(nor proven!)
For by it (faith) the "men of old" (OT heroes) gained approval. ( AND mankind today gains salvation)

John 6: 28-29
28 Then they (disciples) asked him, "What must we do to do the WORKS God requires?"
29 Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to BELIEVE in the one he has sent." ...

John 3 ...extracts...Jesus to the inquiring Nicodemus
'You must be born again (spiritually).'
The wind blows wherever it pleases.
You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going.
So it is with everyone born of the Spirit....(NEED fulfilled...a NEW LIFE... CHANGED SPIRIT)
Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert,
so the Son of Man must be lifted up, (cruxified ?)
that everyone who BELIEVES in him may have eternal life.

I believe / rely on an excellent Bible scholar's statement:

"The CONDITION(S) for SALVATION...
Salvation is conditioned solely on FAITH / (BELIEF) in Jesus The Christ.("repentance" may be a SYNONYM when understood to be a "re-thinking and a "turning around")
Nearly 200 times FAITH (or BELIEF) is stated as the single condition in the New Testament.
That FAITH must be placed in The Christ as one's substutute for and Savior from sin (/sins)...

There are some FALSE additions to FAITH...e.g. ritual water baptism, repentance by works, confession / purification, lordship, etc
REF: Ryrie Study Bible...expanded NASB...p. 2073

(Jesus to Mary the Magdelene):.... "Your FAITH has saved YOU; go in peace."...

 

[Kenneth Redden]

Scripture does not provide a definition of the word "faith".

Of course not, it's not Webster's Dictionary; it is the Word of God, as written in the KJV Bible. We can know the meaning of scripture, according to the mystery in which they spoke, by noticing the textual patterns and finding matching patterns elsewhere in scripture and be led to knowledge of the days of the creation, from the Word of God.

 

[Kenneth Redden]

(Jesus to Mary the Magdelene):.... "Your FAITH has saved YOU; go in peace."...

Wow, good example! Mary Magdalene's precious expression of love in Luke 37:37-38 is in stark contrast to the reason Christianity has changed the meaning of "faith," in Ephesians 2:8; to accommodate sin, death and power.

 

[DrBubbaLove]

Wow, good example! Mary Magdalene's precious expression of love in Luke 37:37-38 is in stark contrast to the reason Christianity has changed the meaning of "faith," in Ephesians 2:8; to accommodate sin, death and power.

So you are changing the meaning of faith being in the believer to just believers needing knowledge for salvation. So is Satan and all the demons then saved because of their knowledge?

 

[Kenneth Redden]

Beloved; that is, "our beloved brother Paul" and his revelation in 2 Peter 3:8.

 

[Kenneth Redden]

But, beloved, "it is the last time." And 2 Peter 3:8 is our beloved brother Paul's revelation. And today is the fourth day in this, "last time," for the days of the creation. 1 John 2:18.

 

[Kenneth Redden]

So you are changing the meaning of faith being in the believer to just believers needing knowledge for salvation. So is Satan and all the demons then saved because of their knowledge?

No; I am changing nothing. The believer’s faith is moot, after the fact. The faith which is in Christ Jesus; is faith in the Word of the LORD that made the heavens, Psalms 33:6.

 

[Kenneth Redden]

Imagine trying to tell the Gospel Story, from the heaven in which it originated; that is like, "dark matter," to us here in the heaven of this fourth day Universe. This is the KJV Bible; so, read accordingly!

 

[DrBubbaLove]

No; I am changing nothing. The believer’s faith is moot, after the fact. The faith which is in Christ Jesus; is faith in the Word of the LORD that made the heavens, Psalms 33:6.

I was being charitable. Ok. The claim is that knowledge is our salvation not faith. What knowledge? The knowledge that Jesus has faith in Himself. Fine, got that the first time.
So how then are Satan and his demons with the same knowledge that Jesus has faith in Himself, how are they without salvation?

 

[chilehed]

Of course not, it's not Webster's Dictionary; it is the Word of God, as written in the KJV Bible. We can know the meaning of scripture, according to the mystery in which they spoke, by noticing the textual patterns and finding matching patterns elsewhere in scripture and be led to knowledge of the days of the creation, from the Word of God.

Even if you're right, it only works if you know the definitions of the words.