2 Timothy 3:15

[Kenneth Redden]

Sigh,

It is quite evident from the text that, grace, faith, and salvation are the gift of God. There are no works involved. It is ALL given by God, Grace, Faith (your ability to believe) and salvation itself. It was the answer to your initial question.

My point is that it is Christ's faith, not the believers faith.

 

[Thursday]

Except for the fact that the Greek grammar of the New Testament does not support such an interpretation. i'd fail any of my students who proposed such an interpretation, because it is bad grammar. Paul and Luke were a lot of things, but they weren't clumsy with Greek grammar.

Incidentally, as bad as your exegesis is, it does not support your point.

Now what was it you were accusing me of earlier?...Oh yes, it was "a complicated man made dogma."

And for what reason should we accept your complicated man made dogma since it does not agree with the grammar of the text of the passage?

You are mistaken. You are fitting your grammar to you dogma rather than accepting what scripture says.

Romans 11
22Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.

 

[Thursday]

Are you trying to tell me that what Christ did for me to give me everlasting life, was not enough and that I am going to have to help? No way! You're going to, "heaven," whether you like it or not. The thing is that because we can no longer be judged according to sin, we must be judged according to works. Good works are things that abide by our new commandment, in John 13:34.

Christ gave you sufficient grace for salvation. However, you can reject his gift.

That's why he warned you that only those who endure will be saved.

Why do you suppose he warned us of this?

 

[Kenneth Redden]

Why isn't your interpretation a private interpretation?

What is your authority to interpret scripture?

This is not my interpretation, it is Paul's interpretation. I can show you.

 

[Kenneth Redden]

Christ gave you sufficient grace for salvation. However, you can reject his gift.

That's why he warned you that only those who endure will be saved.

Why do you suppose he warned us of this?

You are missing Paul's interpretation.

 

[Thursday]

This is not my interpretation, it is Paul's interpretation. I can show you.

It is your interpretation of Paul, which is different from most Christians.

Gal 6
7Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.

 

[Kenneth Redden]

It is your interpretation of Paul, which is different from most Christians.

Gal 6
7Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.

I told you that I could show you how and then you can make your own decision on whose interpretation it is.

 

[Kenneth Redden]

And Isaiah 28:10 tells us how to understand scripture, precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little, just as Paul has done in his demonstration.

 

[chilehed]

Whew! There was no need for all that! Your thinking too much.
It is very simple: Salvation is through faith which is in Christ Jesus. THAT, RIGHT THERE; is your definition of Christ's "faith," in Ephesians 2:8.

Ephesians 2:8 doesn't provide a definition of the word "faith".

 

[Kenneth Redden]

Ephesians 2:8 doesn't provide a definition of the word "faith".

You must know the meaning, Christ's faith; according to scripture.

 

[Kenneth Redden]

It is your interpretation of Paul, which is different from most Christians.

Gal 6
7Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.

You're not interested, you must be happy with your current understanding.

 

[Kenneth Redden]

You're not interested, you must be happy with your current understanding.

I don't really see how you can criticize something you do not understand.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Whose, "faith," is it? Would somebody please explain 2 Timothy 3:15 to me.

Paul is speaking to Timothy about Timothy's faith which was there from a child on. Now we readers of this Scripture see Paul/God talking about our very own faith, but only if that fits your life...that is to say, only if you were raised in the faith. This does not exclude those who found Christ as an adult from salvation however. It's an "if the shoe fits, wear it" situation when you read for the most part.

 

[Thursday]

You're not interested, you must be happy with your current understanding.

I don't lean on my own understanding, I listen to those sent by Jesus.

 

[2Timothy2:15]

Timothy's faith. Am not sure what is tricky or not obvious about that. By association we can apply the wisdom of this Saint's words in some respects to our own faith.

The letter was from Paul and his faith and how he compares it to Timothy's faith as he describes how his (Pauls) faith in Jesus sustained him through what he describes in the preceding verses.

10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,

11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.

12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

 

[2Timothy2:15]

And Isaiah 28:10 tells us how to understand scripture, precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little, just as Paul has done in his demonstration.

Read Isiah 28 in context, you will find the context is not a good thing.

to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

14 Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.

 

[Kenneth Redden]

Read Isiah 28 in context, you will find the context is not a good thing.

to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.

13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

14 Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.

Of course you don't see it. You are not reading Paul interpretation.

 

[Kenneth Redden]

2

Paul is speaking to Timothy about Timothy's faith which was there from a child on. Now we readers of this Scripture see Paul/God talking about our very own faith, but only if that fits your life...that is to say, only if you were raised in the faith. This does not exclude those who found Christ as an adult from salvation however. It's an "if the shoe fits, wear it" situation when you read for the most part.

Okay, but the message in 2 Timothy 3:15 is that salvation is through faith which is in Christ Jesus. Not, that our personal faith has any power whatsoever.

 

[DrBubbaLove]

The letter was from Paul and his faith and how he compares it to Timothy's faith as he describes how his (Pauls) faith in Jesus sustained him through what he describes in the preceding verses.

10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,

11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.

12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;

15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

I do not see where we are in disagreement.

The OP disagrees with both of us, as we share the same opinion. The OP wants us to believe Saint Paul meant our knowledge is what saves us, the knowledge that Jesus had faith in Himself. Which probably makes no sense to you just as it does not to me either.
So it rather becomes Saint Paul saying we believe (have faith) because we know Jesus believed in Himself.

 

[Thursday]

I do not see where we are in disagreement.

The OP disagrees with both of us, as we share the same opinion. The OP wants us to believe Saint Paul meant our knowledge is what saves us, the knowledge that Jesus had faith in Himself. Which probably makes no sense to you just as it does not to me either.
So it rather becomes Saint Paul saying we believe (have faith) because we know Jesus believed in Himself.

Exactly. As you say, if our knowledge of the faith of Jesus is what saves us, then even the demons would be saved.