2 things that need to be done

[MorkandMindy]

1 Single payer healthcare

Why does the US consistently have the worst balance of payments (CA balance) of any country?

Why is it when we trade we are usually on the losing end?

A big factor has to be the huge cost of healthcare.

Whether the company pays it, or the individual pays it or it comes from taxes those huge charges add on to the cost of everything made in the US.

 

[MorkandMindy]

Our healthcare system costs twice as much as that of similar countries

Going single payer would cut the overall cost in half because

Our healthcare system is a maze, a patchwork system when viewed from the consumer end, with many including myself not covered despite paying taxes.

In a nearby hospital, and this may apply to other hospitals, there are as many administrators allocating costs to all the various providers as there are beds in the hospital. In many cases nobody knows who will pay for what until they either accept or reject the charge, after three rejections it goes to the customer. There is usually a primary payer, a secondary payer and the customer, and part of a charge may be in the deductible, some may be proportioned between payers, others are in a kind of no man's land it seems, that one blood test might be paid because it is diagnostic, but if it is considered to be screening it would not.

But that is just the impression I get, I've asked people in the business and they seem as confused as I am.

 

[hislegacy]

1 Single payer healthcare

Why does the US consistently have the worst balance of payments (CA balance) of any country?

Why is it when we trade we are usually on the losing end?

A big factor has to be the huge cost of healthcare.

Whether the company pays it, or the individual pays it or it comes from taxes those huge charges add on to the cost of everything made in the US.

Two things -

First - The title says two things need to be done and you only listed one.

Second - What makes you think the Government paying it (through taxes), will make one cent of difference? There is not one program run by the Federal Government that is fiscally solvent, let alone under budget.

 

[MorkandMindy]

...
Second - What makes you think the Government paying it (through taxes), will make one cent of difference? There is not one program run by the Federal Government that is fiscally solvent, let alone under budget.

If the British had the system the US has I'm sure it would be even worse, they are infamous for bad management and since joining the EU have lost all their car companies to Europe or just closures because they are so inefficient.

But their National Health Service is as good as anyone's. Why? Because it is so simple even they can't mess it up.

 

[Josheb]

1 Single payer healthcare

Why does the US consistently have the worst balance of payments (CA balance) of any country?

Liberals.

Why is it when we trade we are usually on the losing end?

1) Liberals, 2) Wealthy consumer mentality.

A big factor has to be the huge cost of healthcare.

Explain that. Healthcare services cost what they cost. What healthcare providers charge is often unrelated to what services cost. Sources that neglect to make such discrimination are unreliable at best; deceptive at worst. Service providers and Insurance providers are often non-disclosing of these matters which makes an understanding of the problem and its solutions impossible. It also makes the above statement unfounded and unjustified unless and until actual costs are known.

The thing that needs to change is the secrecy.
.

Whether the company pays it, or the individual pays it or it comes from taxes those huge charges add on to the cost of everything made in the US.

??? "Charges" don't add anything. Charges are inanimate additions with no volitional or behavior attributes by which they might add or subtract anything. Furthermore, there are no additional add ons for materials made in the US. Neither does the government nor taxpayer pay for them.

You really have to explain that. As stated, that is nonsensical.


I don't have insurance. I had insurance but the ACA saw to it that my monthly insurance premiums tripled and my deductible multiplied twelve-fold over the insurance I previously had. As a consequence I pay for everything out of pocket and everything over my deductible gets reimbursed through a medical costs sharing community. Last year an x-ray found a mass in one of my lungs. I was charged over $400.00 for that examination and sent to a specialist who charged me $240.00 for that examination and sent me to get a CAT-Scan for which I paid $3000.00 (numbers are all approximate roundings). Because I paid in cash I got calls from ALL of the accounting departments saying the fees were less for cash payments and they would be sending me money back! The initial visit cost me just under $200.00 (less than half originally charged). The specialist cost just under $200.00 (a small savings), and the CAT-Scan sent me a check for more than $1000.00! The receipts for all these charges were sent to the cost-sharing network and I was reimbursed in entirety (minus my $300.00 deductible).


I would like the government to stay out of my medical care as much as possible. They can fnd research. They do not get my hard-earned money for services I can purchase on my own without their aid. Their job is to make sure the the market is run legally, morally, ethically, and to enforce sanctions when that doesn't happen. That's all.

 

[Albion]

1 Single payer healthcare

Why does the US consistently have the worst balance of payments (CA balance) of any country?

Why is it when we trade we are usually on the losing end?

A big factor has to be the huge cost of healthcare.

Whether the company pays it, or the individual pays it or it comes from taxes those huge charges add on to the cost of everything made in the US.

If we think that the health care doled out by the Veterans Administration at present is wonderful, and if you think that having to wait six months for live-saving surgery as is the case in some of those other countries you think should be imitated by us...

then Socialized Medicine probably IS the way to go, as you are saying.

But people never look at the real world examples before saying we should take a leap of faith. They usually just look at the PROMISES that the advocates are making and believe them implicitly.

"If you like your doctor, you can keep him!"
--Barack Obama

 

[MorkandMindy]

2 The Crises of Capitalism

The one I'm referring to is of all the money ending up in a small number of hands.

That happened in 1929, again in 2008/9 and again now.

Three possible responses come to mind:

1. Humane Capitalism: add on a mechanism to take money from the rich and pass it down.

This tends to be unpopular because first the economic system hands millions to CEOs and then the government reallocates a lot of it, but it is better than cut-throat capitalism.

2. Communism: the government runs everything.

This can work very well in some ways and very badly in others, the weak spot is it all relies on government bureaucrats

3. the Democratic Workplace: company-level socialism.

The company will not give most of the money to the CEOs and the investors, but will allocated it in an equitable way by decisions made by all of the employees. This does not depend on government intervention to the extent that 1 and 2 do and seems fairer. This system is used extensively in what is currently the World's number one exporting nation, Germany.

It is certainly not untested.

Something will have to be done about recycling money in the near future, not to the extent of Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren, but something.

 

[MorkandMindy]

Thing is, the government is already heavily involved in recycling money, and I'm very critical of the way it is being done.

In the 1930s there were people who could not in any way get a job because there weren't any.

FDR employed many at rates close to the amount they would have got in their own state and for the skills they had, he didn't throw huge wads of money at them like EW and BS want to, 'create millions of well paid jobs'. And the FDR New Deal had them doing useful work. Presently a huge number of people employed in government offices are at keyboards, doing jobs they know almost nothing about. Others are very competent I'm sure, I just haven't met any in the last few years.

 

[Richard T]

1 Single payer healthcare

Why does the US consistently have the worst balance of payments (CA balance) of any country?

Why is it when we trade we are usually on the losing end?

A big factor has to be the huge cost of healthcare.

Whether the company pays it, or the individual pays it or it comes from taxes those huge charges add on to the cost of everything made in the US.

I do believe you have identified one of costs that drive up the price of USA goods. I do not think it is a major factor though. The current account is hurt by the U.S. having a lower average tariff rate than just about everyone we trade with. Simply put we do not have fair trade, yet we act like it is mutually beneficial in a world that is partly mercantilist.

 

[Kentonio]

If we think that the health care doled out by the Veterans Administration at present is wonderful, and if you think that having to wait six months for live-saving surgery as is the case in some of those other countries you think should be imitated by us...

then Socialized Medicine probably IS the way to go, as you are saying.

But people never look at the real world examples before saying we should take a leap of faith. They usually just look at the PROMISES that the advocates are making and believe them implicitly.

"If you like your doctor, you can keep him!"
--Barack Obama

You guys just love these stories about how the rest of us have to wait 6 months for a life saving operation. It’s nonsense. If your system was so great then why is your life expectancy lower than most Western European states, and why are your health outcomes worse?

 

[jardiniere]

Nationalized health care would make our companies more competitive in the global market place against other countries that have socialized their healthcare. Companies here carry a burden that, say, German companies, do not. In order to increase our competitiveness, national health care is a no-brainer. Also, since everyone here knows the value of economies of scale, note that our health costs per capita would decrease.

 

[Allandavid]

Liberals.

1) Liberals, 2) Wealthy consumer mentality.

Explain that. Healthcare services cost what they cost. What healthcare providers charge is often unrelated to what services cost. Sources that neglect to make such discrimination are unreliable at best; deceptive at worst. Service providers and Insurance providers are often non-disclosing of these matters which makes an understanding of the problem and its solutions impossible. It also makes the above statement unfounded and unjustified unless and until actual costs are known.

The thing that needs to change is the secrecy.
.

??? "Charges" don't add anything. Charges are inanimate additions with no volitional or behavior attributes by which they might add or subtract anything. Furthermore, there are no additional add ons for materials made in the US. Neither does the government nor taxpayer pay for them.

You really have to explain that. As stated, that is nonsensical.


I don't have insurance. I had insurance but the ACA saw to it that my monthly insurance premiums tripled and my deductible multiplied twelve-fold over the insurance I previously had. As a consequence I pay for everything out of pocket and everything over my deductible gets reimbursed through a medical costs sharing community. Last year an x-ray found a mass in one of my lungs. I was charged over $400.00 for that examination and sent to a specialist who charged me $240.00 for that examination and sent me to get a CAT-Scan for which I paid $3000.00 (numbers are all approximate roundings). Because I paid in cash I got calls from ALL of the accounting departments saying the fees were less for cash payments and they would be sending me money back! The initial visit cost me just under $200.00 (less than half originally charged). The specialist cost just under $200.00 (a small savings), and the CAT-Scan sent me a check for more than $1000.00! The receipts for all these charges were sent to the cost-sharing network and I was reimbursed in entirety (minus my $300.00 deductible).


I would like the government to stay out of my medical care as much as possible. They can fnd research. They do not get my hard-earned money for services I can purchase on my own without their aid. Their job is to make sure the the market is run legally, morally, ethically, and to enforce sanctions when that doesn't happen. That's all.

About 2 years ago, I had a similar round of tests, including a CAT scan. My out of pocket expense was $98.

You keep your system. I’ll keep the one that has existed pretty successfully in Australia for the last 46 years...

 

[Josheb]

About 2 years ago, I had a similar round of tests, including a CAT scan. My out of pocket expense was $98.

You keep your system. I’ll keep the one that has existed pretty successfully in Australia for the last 46 years...

CAT-Scans cost more than $98. Someone paid the difference. According to Wiki, the average Australian pays nearly $8000 in healthcare costs per year through the Medicare system.

And I think the point was missed: the point was folks get charged more than services cost and that is revealed when paying out of pocket (without insurance). This op states, "A big factor has to be the huge cost of healthcare." You've added nothing to the conversation in that regard.

 

[MorkandMindy]

CAT-Scans cost more than $98. Someone paid the difference. According to Wiki, the average Australian pays nearly $8000 in healthcare costs per year through the Medicare system.

And I think the point was missed: the point was folks get charged more than services cost and that is revealed when paying out of pocket (without insurance). This op states, "A big factor has to be the huge cost of healthcare." You've added nothing to the conversation in that regard.

(my bold)

For a number of years I made the most expensive part of the CAT scanners expensive relative (MRI).

The most expensive part of making the magnets was labor, that came out around 30,000 dollars per magnet. Now amortize that over ten years. The profiteering is almost unbelievable.

Servicing cost little but it was a huge money maker for the company.

If a whole country, or better still continent dealt with those greedy Germans they would get a good price, or the continent could make their own.

Individualism isn't always the answer.

 

[hislegacy]

1. Humane Capitalism: add on a mechanism to take money from the rich and pass it down.

That one statement is what most people have and issue with. When did the government get the right or power to take a person's possessions (money) and give it to whom they see fit?

 

[MorkandMindy]

That one statement is what most people have and issue with. When did the government get the right or power to take a person's possessions (money) and give it to whom they see fit?

That's exactly the problem, and although I'm poor (on the poverty line) I can't support Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren because what they are planning is going to be a disaster. It might look like one part of the change-the-whole-nation-completely would work - the single payer health care - but EW for example wants to pay even more for it. So more rules, more bureaucracy, more waste, more profiteering, I'm on the receiving end of all that. Fill in forms, meet all the requirements, get zero.

They want to blow trillions on everything the middle class wants while I can't get Medicaid because they claim I should be on Medicare because I'm over 65, and vice versa, so I get nothing, and yes I've read the documentation and appealed several times, but you can't get blood out of a stone. But they don't care because they are well paid and have great benefits.

Congress is paid so much that none of them are remotely poor and rich people pretending they know how to help the poor is just a fiasco.

 

[Josheb]

Servicing cost little but it was a huge money maker for the company.

If a whole country, or better still continent dealt with those greedy Germans they would get a good price, or the continent could make their own.[/quote]
Perhaps, but the point being made is about the cost of healthcare. "Healthcare" costs (a dubious term, imo), include manufacture, service delivery, expertise, and much much more and there is nothing wrong with individuals or companies profiting off the every aspect involved as long as the costs/expenses are know to the purchaser. If I go to the doctor and he tells me an xray is going to cost me $90 and a CT-Scan is going to cost me $1800 then I have the ability to decide whether or not to purchase those services (whether I have covering insurance or not) based on that established cost. The doctor can charge whatever he wants! Or, more accurately, in an open market system the doctor can charge whatever the market will bear. Medical services is one of the few places in which service is purchased without knowing the costs beforehand!

This op neglects that fact, and that is the point I am making.

One of the changes that needs making is the disclosure of actual costs empowering the consumer. That lowers costs. And this is true for the government, too, since a recent expose here in America has shown that even our federal legislators were unable to get cost statements from hospitals and insurance companies. One Senator requested such documents only to receive pages of redacted (entirely blackened) paper!

Individualism isn't always the answer.

I completely agree. I was not appealing to personal anecdotal experience. That would be fallacious. I was demonstrating the fact 1) costs are unknown, 2) costs vary depending on method of payment with insurance payments increasing costs!, and 3) insurance (private or public) does not lower costs.

Costs have continued to increase even with attempts at single-payer systems. Rates of increase may lower with single payer systems, but that is not always the case and it isn't addressing the problem cited in the op. I don't know how anyone can say a big factor has to be the huge cost of healthcare when the truth is no one knows the actual costs..... and that needs to change.

 

[Richard T]

You guys just love these stories about how the rest of us have to wait 6 months for a life saving operation. It’s nonsense. If your system was so great then why is your life expectancy lower than most Western European states, and why are your health outcomes worse?

"Except for the behavioral measure of current smoking status, Americans look worse along all dimensions of health. Americans are about twice as likely to have hypertension, twice as likely to be obese, and twice as likely to have diabetes. As we demonstrate later, these differences are unlikely to be explained by differences in diagnosis or reporting. For example, the prevalence of stroke—a condition that rarely goes undiagnosed—is twice as low in Europe as in the U.S." Differences in Health between Americans and Western Europeans: Effects on Longevity and Public Finance
The study above goes on to suggest that because Americans are more unhealthy at age 50, this translates into lower life expectancy. Also, you have to consider that America has more minority population and Hispanic and Black life expectancies are lower overall.

 

[Kentonio]

That's exactly the problem, and although I'm poor (on the poverty line) I can't support Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren because what they are planning is going to be a disaster. It might look like one part of the change-the-whole-nation-completely would work - the single payer health care - but EW for example wants to pay even more for it. So more rules, more bureaucracy, more waste, more profiteering, I'm on the receiving end of all that. Fill in forms, meet all the requirements, get zero.

They want to blow trillions on everything the middle class wants while I can't get Medicaid because they claim I should be on Medicare because I'm over 65, and vice versa, so I get nothing, and yes I've read the documentation and appealed several times, but you can't get blood out of a stone. But they don't care because they are well paid and have great benefits.

Congress is paid so much that none of them are remotely poor and rich people pretending they know how to help the poor is just a fiasco.

So you can’t get the help you need, and you know the system is broken, but you won’t support the two people who want to fix it because you think it’d be a disaster? Is your current healthcare situation not a disaster? Yet you'd rather continue it than have the government spend the money to change it and help you?

 

[MorkandMindy]

So you can’t get the help you need, and you know the system is broken, but you won’t support the two people who want to fix it because you think it’d be a disaster? Is your current healthcare situation not a disaster? Yet you'd rather continue it than have the government spend the money to change it and help you?

Medicaid spending in this country was 592.2 billion US dollars in 2017. That is intended to provide healthcare for those who can't afford it, but I know many whom it fails to provide for.

In my case although my income is well below the requirement, the Medicaid provider refuses to provide because they claim Medicare should be paying, and although I am not eligible for Medicare and have proven it, Medicaid is just not interested. They say there are few people in my category so they aren't going to do anything.