2 Thessalonians 2:7-11

[Cliff2]

"7For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He[4] who now restrains will do so until He[5] is taken out of the way.

8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.

9The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,

10and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

What is the "mystery of lawlessness"?

When will this being be destroyed?

What is the "strong delusion"?

What does it mean when God says He will "send a strong delusion"?

 

[mythbuster]

Well I think Antichrist will be a smooth talking, good looking, miracle working, signs and wonders kind of guy. The delusion may be his recoverery from a fatal head wound.

peace be multiplied

 

[Cliff2]

I would agree that the antichrist has something to do with these verses.

 

[James1979]

Satan is already doing his work now in the churches with power, signs and lying wonders. If you read the book of Revelation 6 Christ is the king and you'll notice something different with the chapter as Satan is given the power to take over to deceive people with different gospels and making people believe that they're are hearing God and saying thus saith the Lord but the Lord has not said it.

God Bless

 

[Cliff2]

What is the "strong delusion"?

What does it mean when God says He will "send a strong delusion"?

What do you see this as?

 

[freespirit2001]

Well I think Antichrist will be a smooth talking, good looking, miracle working, signs and wonders kind of guy. The delusion may be his recoverery from a fatal head wound.

peace be multiplied

LOL!!!

I like to back track a bit with these passages about the Kingdom of God in 2Thessalonians 1:5-12, and the Kingdom of God passages in Matthew:

[bible]2 Thessalonians 1:5-12[/bible]
[bible]Matthew 6:33[/bible]
[bible]Luke 12:31[/bible]

I'll have to get back with you on this later!

 

[freespirit2001]

[bible]2 Thessalonians 2:7-11[/bible]

 

[StevenL]

The strong delusion has been around for a long long time. It has brought us to the present divided, apostate condition that we find ourselves (as a "church" ) in today in which most of the participants actually deny the condition. This delusion is NOT yet to come...it is yet to continue but not yet to come. Watching for the 'strong delusion' in the future is in itself strong delusion.

 

[James1979]

strong delusion is already in effect, been in a effect for a long time with doctrines of men rather than letting the bible be the ultimate authority over the entire church that includes the pastor but all churches are apostate and are dead.

 

[In Christ Forever]

We have a discussion going on with this in the eschatology forum for those interested. God bless.

reve 19:17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, "Come and gather together for the supper of the great God[man of lawlessnes?], 18 "that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all [people,] free and slave, both small and great."

ezekile 39:13 "Indeed all the people of the land will be burying, and they will gain renown for it on the day that I am glorified," says the Lord GOD. 17 " And as for you, son of man, thus says the Lord GOD, 'Speak to every sort of bird and to every beast of the field: "Assemble yourselves and come; Gather together from all sides to My sacrificial meal Which I am sacrificing for you, A great sacrificial meal on the mountains of Israel, That you may eat flesh and drink blood. 18 You shall eat the flesh of the mighty, Drink the blood of the princes of the earth, Of rams and lambs, Of goats and bulls, All of them fatlings of Bashan.

 

[Cliff2]

strong delusion is already in effect, been in a effect for a long time with doctrines of men rather than letting the bible be the ultimate authority over the entire church that includes the pastor but all churches are apostate and are dead.

AMEN!

 

[freespirit2001]

As a business student, I notice alot of impact the media---television,internet technology, and commericals has on our culture compared to, say, our own Amish folk, who never entered the thresholds of our 20th century technology or world marketplaces. The Amish have stayed a strict religious sect without any of the media's involvement, or without much use of our energy needs or our technology needs and without much use of our mass infrastructure's transporation involvements...( some sects may have electricity ...some may use gas or oil heating...some may not...I'm not sure) We have some of the Amish living around us, and they use the horse and buggy still to get around. Some of the people in third world countries are without our basic energy commondities, the use of modern conveniances, electricity, television, radio, mass transporation. Sometimes some people chose to live more aesthetically--the less you have---the closer you are to nature....and to God.

Our media, our energy needs and our noise levels can reach toxic levels at times, and can cloud our perpections, our healthy instincts for good quality of life, our emotions and our rational powers of making good judgements and decision-making abilities. One example of this is noise pollution---our sensory needs are way too over-loaded and over-stimulated, by noise in the city, the levels of crime we chose to be aware of, violence, air toxins. The commercials on TV are full of hidden influencial tags and empty clouding emotions.


Alot of the social behaviors around us are often over looked by what it takes to make and pass the buck the around us....Much of our culture in our communities are based on the industries in our communites---and those who work at those industries. This is what makes up the Corporate Culture or Corporate Hierarchy around us---the people, often white and blue-collar workers who work on the corporate ladder of the work- day world...If the behaviors of that Corporate Culture are promoted to be deceitful--pretensious, authoriative, arrogant and project poor quality of life----these are unhealthy and political behaviors and have to be considered and assessed, by those in the community around those conditions. Social behavior issues in the corporate cultures around us is a very elusive issue...and are often over looked. I think wen all ahve to begin to understanding and assess what healthy behaviors are from unhealthy behaviors are in our own personal walk in faith and what good leadership skills are in contrast to what political behaviors are. In my Business Managment books this assessment of healthy behaviors from political ones is called "Behavior Management Science" or what the social agenda or the employee assistance programs call mental health issues. I also personally feel more "blowing the whistle" will be needed with this kind of political indifference to quality of life issues in family life and in the community.


Also as crime increases in our communities, so do levels of unhealthy behaviors---depression and apathy, scapegoating and blaming others are typical of these behaviors, instead of people trying to resolve issues and work on good decision-making skills and good inter-personal relationship skills and good problem-solving skills together. When industries and corporate cultures start to run themselves by unhealthy behavior rules---social circles tend to be full of deceitful behaviors and denial...The more these behaviors have influence in places of power and with those in positions of authority...the more people are led into the abyss of poor judgement sense, poor reasoning abiblites and furthering the path of more apathetic and addictive senarios.......



Alot of these innocent poor behaviors creep into our minds and our way of thinking through our modern convienances of our media---TV commericials... We often totally forget to reflect on what the Kingdom of God is really about with all the emotional impact we are bombarded with on the screen....

If we turned off the sets and just start to listen...we'd be able to see what the media and the unhealthy and political behavior elements in our community actually does to our Christian consciousnesses at times. We'd be able to better empathize better with what it truly means to be the Poor in Spirit or what it truly means to be those who are prosecuted for righteousness' sake in the Spirit of God.

"Blessed are the Poor in Spirit for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven..."Matthew 5:3

"Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven."

"Blessed are you when men revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil agsainst you on false account. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in Heaven.... so men persecuted the prophets who were before you." Matthew 5: 11-12

Our sensory powers can be better focused on the Kingdom of God and can be better honed to defend the spiritual needs of others and our own spiritual matters with better measures.

Thomas Merton, in The Living Bread, speaks about the power of descernment and the use of fasting to increase perception and a better proactive attitiude in one's life:

"The goal of fasting is inner unity. This means hearing but not with the ear; hearing, but not with the understanding; it is hearing with the spirit, with your whole being. The hearing that is only in the ears in one thing. The hearing of the understanding is another. But the hearing of the spirit is not limited to any one faculty, to the ear, or to the mind. Hence, it demands the emptiness of all the faculties. And when the faculties are empty, then the whole being listens. There is then a direct grasp of what is right before you that can never be heard with the ear or understood with the mind. fasting of the heart empties the faculties, frees you from limitations and from preoccuaptions."

In this passage of 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12:
[bible]2 Thessalonians 2:11-12[/bible]


I think we need others to help validate and support our specifc needs in the spirit in our walk with Christ, but we should also lean on the Lord for being the only shield and the shelter for our minds and our spirits when times get really deceitful and "evil" around...Emotions are often blinding to our rational sense...Sometimes our sight can be in error, that's why we ask our friends help to confer and validate an issue or concern....but our sense of smell can also be blinding too....I'm wondering why when I drive by some industrial factories in our communirty and I'll notice a strange pervasive odor at times...sometimes it smells like vomit...sometimes like fragrant floor cleaner---a huge pervasive smell....for miles and miles around....I know its a factory for awful smelling industrial chemicals. I don't know if this is monitored by government standards or what now. I don't know if it's used as a form of pollution control system, and if they have it hooked by wires and energy powered...? .

 

[mark kennedy]

"7For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He[4] who now restrains will do so until He[5] is taken out of the way.

8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.

9The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,

10and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness."

What is the "mystery of lawlessness"?

The mystery of lawlessness is like the mystery of godliness. It is a hidden principle that we really don't understand yet. You have to understand that God's revelation is progressive.

When will this being be destroyed?

Jesus returns at the end of the tribulation and the two beasts (the false prophet and antichrist) have the dubious distinction of being the first two to be cast into the lake of fire bodily. Jesus returns from the east, the mount of olives is split and he walks in the East Gate. Upon realizing this Islamics bricked up the East Gate and I allways thought that was funny

What is the "strong delusion"?

Check out the second Psalm the delusion is that the antichrist convinces everyone that they can fight God and win. One of the harshest judgments God can do is to leave us to our own devices. Check out Proverbs 1:20-33 and the call of wisdom calling in the streets and the consequences of not heading her call.

What does it mean when God says He will "send a strong delusion"?

There is also mention of the restrainer continuing to restrain (I'm sorry but I don't have the verse) untill He be taken out of the way. My personal opinion is that the Devil will allways believe that he can dethrone God and he will spend all of eternity in Hell thinking someday I will get out of here and then I will be God. The delusional part of this is that it is completly impossible and he probably realizes this at some level but just can't accept it.

 

[Cliff2]

The mystery of lawlessness is like the mystery of godliness. It is a hidden principle that we really don't understand yet. You have to understand that God's revelation is progressive.



Jesus returns at the end of the tribulation and the two beasts (the false prophet and antichrist) have the dubious distinction of being the first two to be cast into the lake of fire bodily. Jesus returns from the east, the mount of olives is split and he walks in the East Gate. Upon realizing this Islamics bricked up the East Gate and I allways thought that was funny



Check out the second Psalm the delusion is that the antichrist convinces everyone that they can fight God and win. One of the harshest judgments God can do is to leave us to our own devices. Check out Proverbs 1:20-33 and the call of wisdom calling in the streets and the consequences of not heading her call.



There is also mention of the restrainer continuing to restrain (I'm sorry but I don't have the verse) untill He be taken out of the way. My personal opinion is that the Devil will allways believe that he can dethrone God and he will spend all of eternity in Hell thinking someday I will get out of here and then I will be God. The delusional part of this is that it is completly impossible and he probably realizes this at some level but just can't accept it.

Thanks for your conribution, I amy not agree with them all, but am not here to argue with you on them. Just to get some thinking aabout these verses.

 

[In Christ Forever]

7For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He[4] who now restrains will do so until He[5] is taken out of the way.

Considering this was said back in Paul's time, who could the restrainer be but either the saints, Christ, God or an roman emperor. Again, is the man of sin different than the man of lawlessness? Or are they the same?

1 thess 4:17 Then we who are alive [and] remain shall be "caught up/carried away together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air[#109]. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

Ephesians 2:1 And you [He made alive,] who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air[#109], the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.