2 sins the bible doesn't mention

[mmksparbud]

And one more, "Apart from Me you can do nothing." John 15:5

And these are exactly the verses used to support the position that Jesus can makes us righteous, as we could never do for ourselves, a negative lesson which the law and Old Covenant was intended to teach us. It requires our continued participation with the workings of the Spirit, however:
"To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life." Rom 2:7

That is the same thing as with God all things are possible. Jesus came to show what we can do with God to direct our lives, as He did, He said so can we do and more. We will sin, but in the final analysis---we do not have to because "all things are possible." But if we do, we can ask forgiveness---it is not an ---go ahead and do what you want, sin and then be forgiven. God doesn't do presumption. It to him that "overcometh.|

 

[fhansen]

“If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”

Yes, and that's why confession/reconciliation have always been so important in the old Churches. He dose not intend or expect us to remain and continue remaining in unrighteousness, sinfulness, lawlessness.
"And this is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you: God is light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. If we say we have fellowship with Him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin." 1 John 15-7

"No one who lives in Him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen Him or known Him." 1 John 3:3

 

[fhansen]

That is the same thing as with God all things are possible. Jesus came to show what we can do with God to direct our lives, as He did, He said so can we do and more. We will sin, but in the final analysis---we do not have to because "all things are possible." But if we do, we can ask forgiveness---it is not an ---go ahead and do what you want, sin and then be forgiven. God doesn't do presumption. It to him that "overcometh.|

And yet no one can predict whether or not they'll overcome, whether or not they will persevere, which is exactly why we're instructed, as well as admonished, warned, and encouraged to persevere, to be vigilant, to do good works, to strive, to work out or salvation, to make our calling and election sure, to refrain from sin, to live by the Spirit and not the flesh, to remain in Christ, etc, etc.

 

[mmksparbud]

And yet no one can predict whether or not they'll overcome, whether or not they will persevere, which is exactly why we're instructed, as well as admonished, warned, and encouraged to persevere, to be vigilant, to do good works, to strive, to work out or salvation, to make our calling and election sure, to refrain from sin, to live by the Spirit and not the flesh, to remain in Christ, etc, etc.

Of course--we endure to the end. Not quite work for our salvation. Salvation is a free gift from God---period. It is not humanely possible to work your way into heaven --- otherwise, Christ need not have died. We work good deeds because that is what salvation does to our hearts. Changes them. Our works are because we are saved, not in order to be saved.

 

[RDKirk]

No, that's a very novel understanding, completely at odds with historic Christianity in the eastern and western churches-and with the bible. The Lamb is Who finally enables us to obey, when the time became ripe. But for us that's a process, of working out our salvation. As I've asked before, what's the difference being a "white-washed tomb", clean on the outside while still filthy on the inside (Matt 23:27-28), and being a "snow-covered dung heap", the concept of many, along with Luther, who hold to an "imputed righteousness" view of justification? Jesus didn't come to forgive and then leave us as we already were, but rather to make new creations, to finally restore justice to His wayward creation rather than suddenly decide to ignore it.

The problem is that you stated an entire soteriological proposition in a single sentence that is incorrect. You said:

And yet Jesus told the rich young ruler that he must obey the ten commandments in order to gain eternal life.

That sentence is incorrect by its incompleteness.

 

[Archivist]

Yes, and that's why confession/reconciliation have always been so important in the old Churches. He dose not intend or expect us to remain and continue remaining in unrighteousness, sinfulness, lawlessness.
"And this is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you: God is light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. If we say we have fellowship with Him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin." 1 John 15-7

"No one who lives in Him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen Him or known Him." 1 John 3:3

Yes, I’ve said that multiple times. We are not saved by not sinning because despot our best efforts. We confess our sins. We are saved by the Blood of the Lamb.

 

[fhansen]

Of course--we endure to the end. Not quite work for our salvation. Salvation is a free gift from God---period. It is not humanely possible to work your way into heaven --- otherwise, Christ need not have died. We work good deeds because that is what salvation does to our hearts. Changes them. Our works are because we are saved, not in order to be saved.

It's not either or, but both/and. Man cannot possibly save himself and yet he can still refuse to be saved, either initially, or at any point later along the way. Justification is a free gift, but we can forfeit the gift, by acting unjustly, by not cooperating with/ living by the Spirit, by returning to the flesh. Again, no one can predict their own perseverance and God, alone knows with 100% certainty whose names are written in the Book of Life and whose are not. And once we're justified and made new creations, once the gift is received, we're expected to act like it, like children of God, to cooperate with grace, to "invest our talents", to work out our salvation together with He who works in us, judged by what we did with what we've been given in terms of knowledge/revelation, grace, time, experience, etc.

 

[fhansen]

Yes, I’ve said that multiple times. We are not saved by not sinning because despot our best efforts. We confess our sins. We are saved by the Blood of the Lamb.

It has nothing to do with our efforts, other than to remain in Him; the will of man is always involved, even if only weakly at first, because we can always say, "no", even if we absolutely need grace in order to ever muster a "yes". At the end, we'll actually be judged on our love, which is the outcome of saying "yes", and continually saying "yes", of remaining in fellowship with God, the source of all goodness and love, and not on our level of faith alone. And love acts, for the good of others, by its nature. And this is why the sheep and the goats in Matt 25 were said to be separated according to what they did "for the least of these". This love is a work of God's in us, His "handiwork" (Eph 2). Faith, even though it establishes that fellowship, by itself is worthless such that Paul could say in 1 Cor 13,
"...if I have a faith that can move mountains but have not love, I am nothing."

And Augustine would say later on,
"Without love faith may indeed exist, but avails nothing."

 

[fhansen]

The problem is that you stated an entire soteriological proposition in a single sentence that is incorrect. You said:



That sentence is incorrect by its incompleteness.

It's absolutely correct properly understood. Many who adhere to Sola Fide would not reject it on its incompleteness but rather because they fail to accept the truth that we're saved on more than faith alone. Faith is not the equivalent of justice or righteousness for man, as if that's all God wants from us or all it takes in order to be seen as righteous in His eyes. Nor is it a license to be free from the obligation to be actually righteous. Instead it's the very doorway to that righteousness because it's the doorway to God and the union with Him that constitutes the just and right order of things for man.

 

[Archivist]

It has nothing to do with our efforts, other than to remain in Him; the will of man is always involved, even if only weakly at first, because we can always say, "no", even if we absolutely need grace in order to ever muster a "yes". At the end, we'll actually be judged on our love, which is the outcome of saying "yes", and continually saying "yes", of remaining in fellowship with God, the source of all goodness and love, and not on our level of faith alone. And love acts, for the good of others, by its nature. And this is why the sheep and the goats in Matt 25 were said to be separated according to what they did "for the least of these". This love is a work of God's in us, His "handiwork" (Eph 2). Faith, even though it establishes that fellowship, by itself is worthless such that Paul could say in 1 Cor 13,
"...if I have a faith that can move mountains but have not love, I am nothing."

And Augustine would say later on,
"Without love faith may indeed exist, but avails nothing."

Perhaps you should read what others write, because I’ve said multiple times that it has nothing to do with our efforts.

 

[fhansen]

Perhaps you should read what others write, because I’ve said multiple times that it has nothing to do with our efforts.

Ok. I went back and read your posts and if I assumed anything incorrectly I apologize-I tend to get a bit defensive sometimes around here . But I guess the point I'd make is that while we cannot earn our way to heaven by our own efforts based on mere external observation of the law, and while justification is a free gift, we're nonetheless expected, once the gift is received, to do our part, to cooperate with grace, to participate by following and imitating Christ and responding to grace as it's given for the purpose of doing God's will. We're new creations in Christ, children of God, and are expected to act like it even as we need grace in order to aid us in doing so. The point is that we can always say "no" to doing so.

 

[Archivist]

Ok. I went back and read your posts and if I assumed anything incorrectly I apologize-I tend to get a bit defensive sometimes around here . But I guess the point I'd make is that while we cannot earn our way to heaven by our own efforts based on mere external observation of the law, and while justification is a free gift, we're nonetheless expected, once the gift is received, to do our part, to cooperate with grace, to participate by following and imitating Christ and responding to grace as it's given for the purpose of doing God's will. We're new creations in Christ, children of God, and are expected to act like it even as we need grace in order to aid us in doing so. The point is that we can always say "no" to doing so.

I think I was clear, and frankly I was offended by some of your responses, particularly your false statement that what I said was at odds with historic Christianity. There is nothing we can do to obtain salvation other than accepting Jesus as our Lord and Savior. We cannot be saved by following the law because despite our best efforts we cannot. I never said that we shouldn’t try to do so, but even the most saintly of us will always come up short. We are saved only through the Blood of the Lamb.

 

[fhansen]

I think I was clear, and frankly I was offended by some of your responses, particularly your false statement that what I said was at odds with historic Christianity. There is nothing we can do to obtain salvation other than accepting Jesus as our Lord and Savior. We cannot be saved by following the law because despite our best efforts we cannot. I never said that we shouldn’t try to do so, but even the most saintly of us will always come up short. We are saved only through the Blood of the Lamb.

Alright, as I said I can sometimes get defensive and overreact-not so often tho. But to be fair, how does my last post square with your understanding?

 

[Archivist]

Alright, as I said I can sometimes get defensive and overreact-not so often tho. But to be fair, how does my last post square with your understanding?

I agree. I thought that I’d been saying that same thing. Sorry if I was not clear.

 

[fhansen]

I agree. I thought that I’d been saying that same thing. Sorry if I was not clear.

And sorry if I was presumptuous.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

pedophilia
racism

i think when moses married a ethiopian woman it was criticized and those people were humiliated outside the camp

The Bible addresses both of these issues. For a start, any form of fornication is condemned. The bible also tells us race is not important, only our unity in Christ.

Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.