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2 sins the bible doesn't mention

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by lambofgod43985889, Sep 10, 2020.

  1. solid_core

    solid_core Well-Known Member

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    We can interpret Bible verses in many ways.
     
  2. RaymondG

    RaymondG Well-Known Member

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    Yes, and this is the cause of the division and separation among the religion. Everyone's truth is true to them. Yet there is only one Way, Truth and Life.....and it is seldom discovered through studying and interpreting words.
     
  3. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    I know, I corrected the post, I thought I had corrected it before anyone got a chance to see it!! Sorry, it was the Op I was directing it to. He has many threads sympathetic to pedophiles. Most disturbing.
     
  4. fhansen

    fhansen Oldbie

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    There are probably lots of sins that aren't specifically mentioned in the Bible. But I believe that the greatest commandments cover them all. in other words anyone truly obeying those commandments simply won't commit those kinds of acts
     
  5. NoNameNothing

    NoNameNothing New Member

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    And, these days mere silence is "Racism" ‍♂️
     
  6. hedrick

    hedrick Senior Veteran Supporter

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    You can find reasons in Jesus' teaching to condemn both. But Jesus didn't actually define things as sins. If you look carefully at Jesus' teachings, he replaced the purity-oriented ethics of the Pharisees with a focus on intent and helping people. He talked a lot about judgement, but never gave any examples of someone being judged for sin, or even the kinds of offenses Christians typically think of as sin. Even Paul said that everything is allowed but not everything is helpful. What I'm saying is that you shouldn't expect Jesus to define things as sins, because that's not how he dealt with ethics.

    As far as I know, ancient people tended to be hostile to everyone other than their own country or even city, but they didn't think of this as race. Partly I suspect because there weren't a lot of people of other races around. Sure the Bible mentions Ethiopeans, but racism became a big issue when we imported lots of black people as slaves. There were plenty of slaves in ancient Rome, but it wasn't thought of as racial. So I think there were equivalents of racism in the treatment of those outside your city, and in the treatment of slaves, but it wasn't really racism as we think of it now.

    Jesus insisted on dealing with Samaritans, prostitutes, and other disapproved people. That's probably the closest you're going to get.

    I'm also not sure pedophilia was treated as seriously until recently. Remember, traditional sexual ethics was mostly about the categories of people you had sex with: the same gender, someone who isn't married. It was much less about the things that modern sexual ethics cares about: whether the person is in a position to give consent, whether partners are being abused. Effective action against that kind of abuse is really came from the modern, "liberal" position.

    Pedophilia is currently regarded as wrong because children aren't in a position to give consent. I definitely think it's wrong. I think Jesus' whole approach of looking at how people were treated rather than what purity rules are violated supports it. But the specifics of modern sexual ethics really aren't there in the Bible. Most of what you see in the Bible are remnants of the kind of purity approach that Jesus rejected in his conflicts with the Pharisees. Except for Jesus, but the only sexual issues he dealt with were adultery and divorce.
     
  7. NoNameNothing

    NoNameNothing New Member

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    Sin is hatred...
    Where does it say that in the Bible?
    Is it not rather Rebellion (with theft of said candy-bar: people resenting Rich People or just resenting the fact that they do not have the means to purchase the item they want out of covetousness, gluttony or for the sake of satisfying that guilty pleasure) but, in a way, it is reasonably possible that the shoplifter actually hates the Rich. In that sense you would be correct.
     
  8. Archivist

    Archivist Senior Veteran Supporter

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    It is a sin in that regard if you are hurting others.
     
  9. TexFire316

    TexFire316 Come as a child, with no agenda

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    Actually those are both men words. And the Scripture does indeed address both of those. Start studying.
     
  10. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    Indeed, and men create those words in order to do wrong and say that the other wrong they do is within the law.

    As many have noted in numerous ways already, an understanding of the Christian way of life excludes these and other hurtful actions. Pedophilia and racism are simply incompatible with the mind of Christ.
     
  11. fhansen

    fhansen Oldbie

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    And yet Jesus told the rich young ruler that he must obey the ten commandments in order to gain eternal life.
     
  12. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    That's not how that story goes.

    As He was setting out on a journey, a man ran up to Him and knelt before Him, and asked Him, “Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”

    And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone. You know the commandments, ‘Do not murder, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and mother.’”

    And he said to Him, “Teacher, I have kept all these things from my youth up.”

    Looking at him, Jesus felt a love for him and said to him, “One thing you lack: go and sell all you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.” But at these words he was saddened, and he went away grieving, for he was one who owned much property.

    And Jesus, looking around, *said to His disciples, “How hard it will be for those who are wealthy to enter the kingdom of God!”
    --Mark 10

    Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”

    So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

    He said to Him, “Which ones?”

    Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’”

    The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I still lack?”

    Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

    But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful, for he had great possessions.

    Then Jesus said to His disciples, “Assuredly, I say to you that it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”

    -- Matthew 19

    Clearly, merely keeping the Ten Commandments (or for that matter, the entire Mosaic Law) was not sufficient for eternal life, or the young man would not have been yet lacking.

    Jesus did not say, "Attaboy! Keep it up and I'll see you in heaven!"

    Rather, He pointed out what the young man was still lacking, despite keeping the Law. This story ends sadly for the young Law-keeper.
     
  13. fhansen

    fhansen Oldbie

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    That's not what Jesus said. He said, "But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

    He also said, in Matt 5, "For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."

    The man could achieve a higher perfection yet but Jesus gave him the bare minimum so to speak. And yet even that bare minimum was authentically achievable only in light of the other commandments that Jesus repeated, the Greatest Commandments, a tall order in itself and only achievable to the extent that we enter and remain in fellowship with God. Because that, love, is the only way that our righteousness can possibly surpass that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law. That's the only way that the law can be correctly fulfilled IOW, as per Rom 13:10. And while the law, itself, cannot possibly justify us (Rom 3:20), we'll nevertheless be judged by it (Rom (2:12-13), because "the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good" (Rom 7:12).

    Only Jesus can resolve the conflict within us between this attraction to the law and the truth that it conveys vs our attraction to sin and rebellion against God (Rom 7:25). Faith provides this resolution, as we also finally become jaded with our own efforts at righteousness and with the pitiful offerings and attractions of this world.
    "...not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith" (Phil 3:9).
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2020
  14. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    No---the post #74 is correct. After Jesus said keep the commandments---the young man replied

    Mar 10:20 And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.


    He kept them all, Jesus did not contradict him, but He said---

    Mar 10:21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.
    Mar 10:22 And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.


    You have to take everything that was said, not just the parts you want. This young man's heart was with doing what he had to do to enter into heaven---except the one thing God wants from us all, above all else----His heart. The boys heart was with his money, not God.
     
  15. fhansen

    fhansen Oldbie

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    Taken in light of all of Scripture along with historical church understanding including the concept that one must be sinless before entrance into heaven (which is also Scriptural) while not necessarily perfectly so in this life, my position makes much more sense. And even the different recordings in the two gospels complement each other in such a way as to explain that absolute perfection is desired and yet not necessarily expected now.
    "Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.” Matt 19
     
  16. Archivist

    Archivist Senior Veteran Supporter

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    We are sinless going into heaven only because we have been washed clean in the Blood of the Lamb, not because we have successfully kept all of the 10 Commandments.
     
  17. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    Problem is your opinion is just that---doctrine is not base on man's opinion but God. You want to make the opinions of man Yooper basses for doctrine---you have the freedom to do so. This is quite simply what the word of God says, not my, nor anyone else's, opinion or what makes sense to them. The young man went away sourfully---He did not follow Jesus. You either believe what the bible says or you don't

    Mat_19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
    Mar_9:23 Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.
    Mar_10:27 And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.
     
  18. fhansen

    fhansen Oldbie

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    No, that's a very novel understanding, completely at odds with historic Christianity in the eastern and western churches-and with the bible. The Lamb is Who finally enables us to obey, when the time became ripe. But for us that's a process, of working out our salvation. As I've asked before, what's the difference being a "white-washed tomb", clean on the outside while still filthy on the inside (Matt 23:27-28), and being a "snow-covered dung heap", the concept of many, along with Luther, who hold to an "imputed righteousness" view of justification? Jesus didn't come to forgive and then leave us as we already were, but rather to make new creations, to finally restore justice to His wayward creation rather than suddenly decide to ignore it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2020
  19. fhansen

    fhansen Oldbie

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    And one more, "Apart from Me you can do nothing." John 15:5

    And these are exactly the verses used to support the position that Jesus can makes us righteous, as we could never do for ourselves, a negative lesson which the law and Old Covenant was intended to teach us. It requires our continued participation with the workings of the Spirit, however:
    "To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life." Rom 2:7
     
  20. Archivist

    Archivist Senior Veteran Supporter

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    “If we say we have no sin we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.”
     
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