2 questions from a person converting

[Julian of Norwich]

Hi, I've most recently spent almost 20 years as an RC. Now, I'm converting to Lutheranism. I've seen 1) Law/Gospel, and 2) Theology of the Cross/Theology of Glory, spoken of numerous times. What are they, please?

 

[ViaCrucis]

Hi, I've most recently spent almost 20 years as an RC. Now, I'm converting to Lutheranism. I've seen 1) Law/Gospel, and 2) Theology of the Cross/Theology of Glory, spoken of numerous times. What are they, please?

Both are supremely important, and also related to one another. Let's tackle Law and Gospel first, because it is perhaps the most important thing to try and understand here. And where I haven't been complete or clear enough, I'm sure others will fill in the gaps and offer more clarification.

The dichotomy of Law and Gospel is, essentially, the heart of Lutheran biblical exegesis and how we "do" theology.

The best summation of these comes from Thesis 26 of Luther's Heidelberg Disputation,

"The law says, 'do this', and it is never done. Grace says, 'believe in this', and everything is already done."

In other words the Law is what God commands. The Gospel, on the other hand, is what God promises.

So the commandments, such as "Do not murder", "Love the Lord your God", "Love your neighbor as yourself", etc are Law. This is what is commanded of us.

Also, from the Epitome of the Formula of Condord,

"1. We believe, teach, and confess that the distinction between the Law and the Gospel is to be maintained in the Church with great diligence as an especially brilliant light, by which, according to the admonition of St. Paul, the Word of God is rightly divided.

2. We believe, teach, and confess that the Law is properly a divine doctrine, which teaches what is right and pleasing to God, and reproves everything that is sin and contrary to God's will.

3. For this reason, then, everything that reproves sin is, and belongs to, the preaching of the Law."

The chief purpose or use of the Law is to curb and restrain evil, i.e. what is right against what is wrong (still quoting from the Epitome of the Formula of Concord),

"Since the Law was given to men for three reasons: first, that thereby outward discipline might be maintained against wild, disobedient men [and that wild and intractable men might be restrained, as though by certain bars];"

And also to serve as a mirror to show men their own trespasses and sins, as a man looking into a mirror,

"secondly, that men thereby may be led to the knowledge of their sins;"

And also, to provide proper instruction for how the godly ought to conduct themselves,

"thirdly, that after they are regenerate and [much of] the flesh notwithstanding cleaves to them, they might on this account have a fixed rule according to which they are to regulate and direct their whole life,"

So the Law asserts what is righteous against unrighteousness, reveals our own unrighteousness and the shame of our sin which is why we all stand equally condemned under the Law, and also that we might have that rule by which to direct our lives as God's people.

The Law does not save, cannot save, and will never save anyone. Therefore even though the Law tells us how we ought to live, and we must do it, we always have to go back and look at the first two uses, especially the second use: The Law reveals our sin. So even though we are born again, having been made alive in Christ, nevertheless we remain sinners while alive in this body, and so even as we seek to live lives of good works as God commands we fail, we sin, and we falter. So that no one can ever claim for himself that he is righteous by his own efforts. For as soon as a man thinks himself righteous by his own efforts the Law falls down upon him as an unbearable weight, crushing him, showing forth the depths of unrighteousness.

The irony is that the more we try to be righteous, the more unrighteous we show ourselves to be. The harder we try to be good, the more depraved we find ourselves to be. For all have fallen short, and the wages of our sin is death.

Therefore the Law is powerless to justify us, to render us righteous before God. All stand condemned under the Law.

The Gospel, however, is not like the Law, because where the Law says "do this" the Gospel says "trust this" because what is promised is already done.

"4. But the Gospel is properly such a doctrine as teaches what man who has not observed the Law, and therefore is condemned by it, is to believe, namely, that Christ has expiated and made satisfaction for all sins, and has obtained and acquired for him, without any merit of his [no merit of the sinner intervening], forgiveness of sins, righteousness that avails before God, and eternal life."

The condemned sinner is made alive by the Gospel, for here the sinner receives, as pure grace without any merit, the work and righteousness of Jesus Christ and the full pardon and forgiveness of sins. So that in Christ we are, indeed, "the very righteousness of God" (2 Corinthians 5:21). This is that righteousness which is apart from the Law, that is, apart from all our efforts and works to try and obey the Law (which we cannot do on account of our sin), the righteousness which is Christ's alone who alone is "Just and Justifier" of the unjust (Romans 3:26) through faith. Not a faith which is of ourselves, but that faith which is of God's grace, as pure gift, not of ourselves (Ephesians 2:8) so that no one may boast in his works (Ephesians 2:9).

So that the Gospel is, indeed, "the power of God to save all who believe" (Romans 1:16) because "by it the justice of God is revealed, the justice which is through faith" (Romans 1:17). For here "God demonstrates His love for us in that while we were yet still sinners, Christ died for us." (Romans 5:8)

So here we see that the Law is God's commandment for righteousness which we, on account of sin, fail to do, and on this account stand hopelessly condemned under the Law.

And we see here that the Gospel is God's good, loving, compassionate, kind, and gracious word and promise to us that we sinners are received as children and heirs through Christ who accomplished all things for us, by His work and righteousness alone. So that all who belong to Christ are indeed saved, justified, and belong to God forever. Christ alone has accomplished this, and God in His mercy gives us all these good things through Christ by the power of the Holy Spirit. So that we can indeed give thanks to God for what He has done, knowing that we have God as our Father who loves us, keeps us, and saves us both now and on the Last Day.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Julian of Norwich]

Both are supremely important, and also related to one another. Let's tackle Law and Gospel first, because it is perhaps the most important thing to try and understand here. And where I haven't been complete or clear enough, I'm sure others will fill in the gaps and offer more clarification.

The dichotomy of Law and Gospel is, essentially, the heart of Lutheran biblical exegesis and how we "do" theology.

The best summation of these comes from Thesis 26 of Luther's Heidelberg Disputation,

"The law says, 'do this', and it is never done. Grace says, 'believe in this', and everything is already done."

In other words the Law is what God commands. The Gospel, on the other hand, is what God promises.

So the commandments, such as "Do not murder", "Love the Lord your God", "Love your neighbor as yourself", etc are Law. This is what is commanded of us.

Also, from the Epitome of the Formula of Condord,

"1. We believe, teach, and confess that the distinction between the Law and the Gospel is to be maintained in the Church with great diligence as an especially brilliant light, by which, according to the admonition of St. Paul, the Word of God is rightly divided.

2. We believe, teach, and confess that the Law is properly a divine doctrine, which teaches what is right and pleasing to God, and reproves everything that is sin and contrary to God's will.

3. For this reason, then, everything that reproves sin is, and belongs to, the preaching of the Law."

The chief purpose or use of the Law is to curb and restrain evil, i.e. what is right against what is wrong (still quoting from the Epitome of the Formula of Concord),

"Since the Law was given to men for three reasons: first, that thereby outward discipline might be maintained against wild, disobedient men [and that wild and intractable men might be restrained, as though by certain bars];"

And also to serve as a mirror to show men their own trespasses and sins, as a man looking into a mirror,

"secondly, that men thereby may be led to the knowledge of their sins;"

And also, to provide proper instruction for how the godly ought to conduct themselves,

"thirdly, that after they are regenerate and [much of] the flesh notwithstanding cleaves to them, they might on this account have a fixed rule according to which they are to regulate and direct their whole life,"

So the Law asserts what is righteous against unrighteousness, reveals our own unrighteousness and the shame of our sin which is why we all stand equally condemned under the Law, and also that we might have that rule by which to direct our lives as God's people.

The Law does not save, cannot save, and will never save anyone. Therefore even though the Law tells us how we ought to live, and we must do it, we always have to go back and look at the first two uses, especially the second use: The Law reveals our sin. So even though we are born again, having been made alive in Christ, nevertheless we remain sinners while alive in this body, and so even as we seek to live lives of good works as God commands we fail, we sin, and we falter. So that no one can ever claim for himself that he is righteous by his own efforts. For as soon as a man thinks himself righteous by his own efforts the Law falls down upon him as an unbearable weight, crushing him, showing forth the depths of unrighteousness.

The irony is that the more we try to be righteous, the more unrighteous we show ourselves to be. The harder we try to be good, the more depraved we find ourselves to be. For all have fallen short, and the wages of our sin is death.

Therefore the Law is powerless to justify us, to render us righteous before God. All stand condemned under the Law.

The Gospel, however, is not like the Law, because where the Law says "do this" the Gospel says "trust this" because what is promised is already done.

"4. But the Gospel is properly such a doctrine as teaches what man who has not observed the Law, and therefore is condemned by it, is to believe, namely, that Christ has expiated and made satisfaction for all sins, and has obtained and acquired for him, without any merit of his [no merit of the sinner intervening], forgiveness of sins, righteousness that avails before God, and eternal life."

The condemned sinner is made alive by the Gospel, for here the sinner receives, as pure grace without any merit, the work and righteousness of Jesus Christ and the full pardon and forgiveness of sins. So that in Christ we are, indeed, "the very righteousness of God" (2 Corinthians 5:21). This is that righteousness which is apart from the Law, that is, apart from all our efforts and works to try and obey the Law (which we cannot do on account of our sin), the righteousness which is Christ's alone who alone is "Just and Justifier" of the unjust (Romans 3:26) through faith. Not a faith which is of ourselves, but that faith which is of God's grace, as pure gift, not of ourselves (Ephesians 2:8) so that no one may boast in his works (Ephesians 2:9).

So that the Gospel is, indeed, "the power of God to save all who believe" (Romans 1:16) because "by it the justice of God is revealed, the justice which is through faith" (Romans 1:17). For here "God demonstrates His love for us in that while we were yet still sinners, Christ died for us." (Romans 5:8)

So here we see that the Law is God's commandment for righteousness which we, on account of sin, fail to do, and on this account stand hopelessly condemned under the Law.

And we see here that the Gospel is God's good, loving, compassionate, kind, and gracious word and promise to us that we sinners are received as children and heirs through Christ who accomplished all things for us, by His work and righteousness alone. So that all who belong to Christ are indeed saved, justified, and belong to God forever. Christ alone has accomplished this, and God in His mercy gives us all these good things through Christ by the power of the Holy Spirit. So that we can indeed give thanks to God for what He has done, knowing that we have God as our Father who loves us, keeps us, and saves us both now and on the Last Day.

-CryptoLutheran

You have answered my first question about Law and Gospel so completely and clearly! I love your posts.
I also see that I need to read The Epitome of the Formula of Concord.

 

[FireDragon76]

Both are supremely important, and also related to one another. Let's tackle Law and Gospel first, because it is perhaps the most important thing to try and understand here. And where I haven't been complete or clear enough, I'm sure others will fill in the gaps and offer more clarification.

The dichotomy of Law and Gospel is, essentially, the heart of Lutheran biblical exegesis and how we "do" theology.

The best summation of these comes from Thesis 26 of Luther's Heidelberg Disputation,

"The law says, 'do this', and it is never done. Grace says, 'believe in this', and everything is already done."

In other words the Law is what God commands. The Gospel, on the other hand, is what God promises.

So the commandments, such as "Do not murder", "Love the Lord your God", "Love your neighbor as yourself", etc are Law. This is what is commanded of us.

Also, from the Epitome of the Formula of Condord,

"1. We believe, teach, and confess that the distinction between the Law and the Gospel is to be maintained in the Church with great diligence as an especially brilliant light, by which, according to the admonition of St. Paul, the Word of God is rightly divided.

2. We believe, teach, and confess that the Law is properly a divine doctrine, which teaches what is right and pleasing to God, and reproves everything that is sin and contrary to God's will.

3. For this reason, then, everything that reproves sin is, and belongs to, the preaching of the Law."

The chief purpose or use of the Law is to curb and restrain evil, i.e. what is right against what is wrong (still quoting from the Epitome of the Formula of Concord),

"Since the Law was given to men for three reasons: first, that thereby outward discipline might be maintained against wild, disobedient men [and that wild and intractable men might be restrained, as though by certain bars];"

And also to serve as a mirror to show men their own trespasses and sins, as a man looking into a mirror,

"secondly, that men thereby may be led to the knowledge of their sins;"

And also, to provide proper instruction for how the godly ought to conduct themselves,

"thirdly, that after they are regenerate and [much of] the flesh notwithstanding cleaves to them, they might on this account have a fixed rule according to which they are to regulate and direct their whole life,"

So the Law asserts what is righteous against unrighteousness, reveals our own unrighteousness and the shame of our sin which is why we all stand equally condemned under the Law, and also that we might have that rule by which to direct our lives as God's people.

The Law does not save, cannot save, and will never save anyone. Therefore even though the Law tells us how we ought to live, and we must do it, we always have to go back and look at the first two uses, especially the second use: The Law reveals our sin. So even though we are born again, having been made alive in Christ, nevertheless we remain sinners while alive in this body, and so even as we seek to live lives of good works as God commands we fail, we sin, and we falter. So that no one can ever claim for himself that he is righteous by his own efforts. For as soon as a man thinks himself righteous by his own efforts the Law falls down upon him as an unbearable weight, crushing him, showing forth the depths of unrighteousness.

The irony is that the more we try to be righteous, the more unrighteous we show ourselves to be. The harder we try to be good, the more depraved we find ourselves to be. For all have fallen short, and the wages of our sin is death.

Therefore the Law is powerless to justify us, to render us righteous before God. All stand condemned under the Law.

The Gospel, however, is not like the Law, because where the Law says "do this" the Gospel says "trust this" because what is promised is already done.

"4. But the Gospel is properly such a doctrine as teaches what man who has not observed the Law, and therefore is condemned by it, is to believe, namely, that Christ has expiated and made satisfaction for all sins, and has obtained and acquired for him, without any merit of his [no merit of the sinner intervening], forgiveness of sins, righteousness that avails before God, and eternal life."

The condemned sinner is made alive by the Gospel, for here the sinner receives, as pure grace without any merit, the work and righteousness of Jesus Christ and the full pardon and forgiveness of sins. So that in Christ we are, indeed, "the very righteousness of God" (2 Corinthians 5:21). This is that righteousness which is apart from the Law, that is, apart from all our efforts and works to try and obey the Law (which we cannot do on account of our sin), the righteousness which is Christ's alone who alone is "Just and Justifier" of the unjust (Romans 3:26) through faith. Not a faith which is of ourselves, but that faith which is of God's grace, as pure gift, not of ourselves (Ephesians 2:8) so that no one may boast in his works (Ephesians 2:9).

So that the Gospel is, indeed, "the power of God to save all who believe" (Romans 1:16) because "by it the justice of God is revealed, the justice which is through faith" (Romans 1:17). For here "God demonstrates His love for us in that while we were yet still sinners, Christ died for us." (Romans 5:8)

So here we see that the Law is God's commandment for righteousness which we, on account of sin, fail to do, and on this account stand hopelessly condemned under the Law.

And we see here that the Gospel is God's good, loving, compassionate, kind, and gracious word and promise to us that we sinners are received as children and heirs through Christ who accomplished all things for us, by His work and righteousness alone. So that all who belong to Christ are indeed saved, justified, and belong to God forever. Christ alone has accomplished this, and God in His mercy gives us all these good things through Christ by the power of the Holy Spirit. So that we can indeed give thanks to God for what He has done, knowing that we have God as our Father who loves us, keeps us, and saves us both now and on the Last Day.

-CryptoLutheran

Do Lutherans really believe that doing good is a fig leaf over depravity?

Law and Gospel is an antidote to Roman Catholic legalism, but I think a certain fundamentalism can emerge even within Lutheran theology. Lutheran theology, for instance, does not easily explain why non-Christians would do a selfless act, if there were no goodness in them and if their actions were fundamentally depraved.

 

[Concord1968]

Both are supremely important, and also related to one another. Let's tackle Law and Gospel first, because it is perhaps the most important thing to try and understand here. And where I haven't been complete or clear enough, I'm sure others will fill in the gaps and offer more clarification.

The dichotomy of Law and Gospel is, essentially, the heart of Lutheran biblical exegesis and how we "do" theology.

The best summation of these comes from Thesis 26 of Luther's Heidelberg Disputation,

"The law says, 'do this', and it is never done. Grace says, 'believe in this', and everything is already done."

In other words the Law is what God commands. The Gospel, on the other hand, is what God promises.

So the commandments, such as "Do not murder", "Love the Lord your God", "Love your neighbor as yourself", etc are Law. This is what is commanded of us.

Also, from the Epitome of the Formula of Condord,

"1. We believe, teach, and confess that the distinction between the Law and the Gospel is to be maintained in the Church with great diligence as an especially brilliant light, by which, according to the admonition of St. Paul, the Word of God is rightly divided.

2. We believe, teach, and confess that the Law is properly a divine doctrine, which teaches what is right and pleasing to God, and reproves everything that is sin and contrary to God's will.

3. For this reason, then, everything that reproves sin is, and belongs to, the preaching of the Law."

The chief purpose or use of the Law is to curb and restrain evil, i.e. what is right against what is wrong (still quoting from the Epitome of the Formula of Concord),

"Since the Law was given to men for three reasons: first, that thereby outward discipline might be maintained against wild, disobedient men [and that wild and intractable men might be restrained, as though by certain bars];"

And also to serve as a mirror to show men their own trespasses and sins, as a man looking into a mirror,

"secondly, that men thereby may be led to the knowledge of their sins;"

And also, to provide proper instruction for how the godly ought to conduct themselves,

"thirdly, that after they are regenerate and [much of] the flesh notwithstanding cleaves to them, they might on this account have a fixed rule according to which they are to regulate and direct their whole life,"

So the Law asserts what is righteous against unrighteousness, reveals our own unrighteousness and the shame of our sin which is why we all stand equally condemned under the Law, and also that we might have that rule by which to direct our lives as God's people.

The Law does not save, cannot save, and will never save anyone. Therefore even though the Law tells us how we ought to live, and we must do it, we always have to go back and look at the first two uses, especially the second use: The Law reveals our sin. So even though we are born again, having been made alive in Christ, nevertheless we remain sinners while alive in this body, and so even as we seek to live lives of good works as God commands we fail, we sin, and we falter. So that no one can ever claim for himself that he is righteous by his own efforts. For as soon as a man thinks himself righteous by his own efforts the Law falls down upon him as an unbearable weight, crushing him, showing forth the depths of unrighteousness.

The irony is that the more we try to be righteous, the more unrighteous we show ourselves to be. The harder we try to be good, the more depraved we find ourselves to be. For all have fallen short, and the wages of our sin is death.

Therefore the Law is powerless to justify us, to render us righteous before God. All stand condemned under the Law.

The Gospel, however, is not like the Law, because where the Law says "do this" the Gospel says "trust this" because what is promised is already done.

"4. But the Gospel is properly such a doctrine as teaches what man who has not observed the Law, and therefore is condemned by it, is to believe, namely, that Christ has expiated and made satisfaction for all sins, and has obtained and acquired for him, without any merit of his [no merit of the sinner intervening], forgiveness of sins, righteousness that avails before God, and eternal life."

The condemned sinner is made alive by the Gospel, for here the sinner receives, as pure grace without any merit, the work and righteousness of Jesus Christ and the full pardon and forgiveness of sins. So that in Christ we are, indeed, "the very righteousness of God" (2 Corinthians 5:21). This is that righteousness which is apart from the Law, that is, apart from all our efforts and works to try and obey the Law (which we cannot do on account of our sin), the righteousness which is Christ's alone who alone is "Just and Justifier" of the unjust (Romans 3:26) through faith. Not a faith which is of ourselves, but that faith which is of God's grace, as pure gift, not of ourselves (Ephesians 2:8) so that no one may boast in his works (Ephesians 2:9).

So that the Gospel is, indeed, "the power of God to save all who believe" (Romans 1:16) because "by it the justice of God is revealed, the justice which is through faith" (Romans 1:17). For here "God demonstrates His love for us in that while we were yet still sinners, Christ died for us." (Romans 5:8)

So here we see that the Law is God's commandment for righteousness which we, on account of sin, fail to do, and on this account stand hopelessly condemned under the Law.

And we see here that the Gospel is God's good, loving, compassionate, kind, and gracious word and promise to us that we sinners are received as children and heirs through Christ who accomplished all things for us, by His work and righteousness alone. So that all who belong to Christ are indeed saved, justified, and belong to God forever. Christ alone has accomplished this, and God in His mercy gives us all these good things through Christ by the power of the Holy Spirit. So that we can indeed give thanks to God for what He has done, knowing that we have God as our Father who loves us, keeps us, and saves us both now and on the Last Day.

-CryptoLutheran

Much better answer than I could have given

 

[ViaCrucis]

Do Lutherans really believe that doing good is a fig leaf over depravity?

Law and Gospel is an antidote to Roman Catholic legalism, but I think a certain fundamentalism can emerge even within Lutheran theology. Lutheran theology, for instance, does not easily explain why non-Christians would do a selfless act, if there were no goodness in them and if their actions were fundamentally depraved.

When the good work is self-righteousness, it certainly is a fig leaf.

I don't view depravity as meaning "incapable of kindness", or that everything we do is filled with malice. It means that all that we do is tainted by the inherent brokenness of our humanity, and so even our best works aren't the righteous works that merit favor with God.

Of course everyone, regardless of religion, can be kind, show altruism, and do works which benefit our neighbor. Which is what we are called to do as Christians. Our good works aren't for our benefit, or God's benefit, but for the benefit of others. But our works, just as the works of the non-believing, have no salvific power. That does not make them worthless as far as temporal reality goes, of course not. But the brutal honesty of the Law does mean that, when we take what it says seriously, and look at ourselves honestly, we always realize that we are, indeed, naked just as Adam was.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

Getting to the Theology of the Cross/Theology (or theologies really) of Glory, we can look again to Luther's Heidelberg Disputation, this one is going to be long.

"19 That person does not deserve to be called a theologian who looks upon the »invisible« things of God as though they were clearly »perceptible in those things which have actually happened« (Rom. 1:20; cf. 1 Cor 1:21-25).

This is apparent in the example of those who were »theologians« and still were called »fools« by the Apostle in Rom. 1:22. Furthermore, the invisible things of God are virtue, godliness, wisdom, justice, goodness, and so forth. The recognition of all these things does not make one worthy or wise.

20 He deserves to be called a theologian, however, who comprehends the visible and manifest things of God seen through suffering and the cross.

The manifest and visible things of God are placed in opposition to the invisible, namely, his human nature, weakness, foolishness. The Apostle in 1 Cor. 1:25 calls them the weakness and folly of God. Because men misused the knowledge of God through works, God wished again to be recognized in suffering, and to condemn »wisdom concerning invisible things« by means of »wisdom concerning visible things«, so that those who did not honor God as manifested in his works should honor him as he is hidden in his suffering (absconditum in passionibus). As the Apostle says in 1 Cor. 1:21, »For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe.« Now it is not sufficient for anyone, and it does him no good to recognize God in his glory and majesty, unless he recognizes him in the humility and shame of the cross. Thus God destroys the wisdom of the wise, as Isa. 45:15 says, »Truly, thou art a God who hidest thyself.«

So, also, in John 14:8, where Philip spoke according to the theology of glory: »Show us the Father.« Christ forthwith set aside his flighty thought about seeing God elsewhere and led him to himself, saying, »Philip, he who has seen me has seen the Father« (John 14:9). For this reason true theology and recognition of God are in the crucified Christ, as it is also stated in John 10 (John 14:6) »No one comes to the Father, but by me.« »I am the door« (John 10:9), and so forth.

21 A theology of glory calls evil good and good evil. A theology of the cross calls the thing what it actually is.

This is clear: He who does not know Christ does not know God hidden in suffering. Therefore he prefers ,works to suffering, glory to the cross, strength to weakness, wisdom to folly, and, in general, good to evil. These are the people whom the apostle calls »enemies of the cross of Christ« (Phil. 3:18), for they hate the cross and suffering and love works and the glory of works. Thus they call the good of the cross evil and the evil of a deed good. God can be found only in suffering and the cross, as has already been said Therefore the friends of the cross say that the cross is good and works are evil, for through the cross works are dethroned and the »old Adam«, who is especially edified by works, is crucified. It is impossible for a person not to be puffed up by his »good works« unless he has first been deflated and destroyed by suffering and evil until he knows that he is worthless and that his works are not his but God's.

22 That wisdom which sees the invisible things of God in works as perceived by man is completely puffed up, blinded, and hardened.

This has already been said. Because men do not know the cross and hate it, they necessarily love the opposite, namely, wisdom, glory, power, and so on. Therefore they become increasingly blinded and hardened by such love, for desire cannot be satisfied by the acquisition of those things which it desires. Just as the love of money grows in proportion to the increase of the money itself, so the dropsy of the soul becomes thirstier the more it drinks, as the poet says: »The more water they drink, the more they thirst for it.« The same thought is expressed in Eccles. 1:8: »The eye is not satisfied with seeing, nor the ear filled with hearing.« This holds true of all desires.

Thus also the desire for knowledge is not satisfied by the acquisition of wisdom but is stimulated that much more. Likewise the desire for glory is not satisfied by the acquisition of glory, nor is the desire to rule satisfied by power and authority, nor is the desire for praise satisfied by praise, and so on, as Christ shows in John 4:13, where he says, »Every one who drinks of this water will thirst again.«

The remedy for curing desire does not lie in satisfying it, but in extinguishing it. In other words, he who wishes to become wise does not seek wisdom by progressing toward it but becomes a fool by retrogressing into seeking »folly«. Likewise he who wishes to have much power, honor, pleasure, satisfaction in all things must flee rather than seek power, honor, pleasure, and satisfaction in all things. This is the wisdom which is folly to the world."

The Theology of the Cross is what it says on the tin: It is theology by way of the cross of Jesus Christ, to comprehend God through the visible reality of the suffering and crucified Jesus, in the weakness, fragility, humliation, and shame of Christ. That we do not apprehend God in His glory, power, strength, or wisdom; but in His weakness, humility, and foolishness as found in the crucified Jesus.

Every theology of glory, by contrast, seeks to confess God by the invisible qualities of His power, His wisdom, His strength, and to think that by the recognition of these one is wise and good. That by one's own efforts one can be righteous, that we can pursue God through the Law and find Him and have Him. These theologies of glory have men seeking power, wisdom, strength, and glory. Through their own efforts, by thinking that by their inherent goodness, or by their tireless striving they can be good and wise. They seek after power, they seek after strength, they view religion as means to their own self-improvement, piety, and betterment.

But the cross tells us that we cannot find God through the invisible things of God, we cannot find God in His glory, His power, His strength; and that we cannot attain for ourselves glory, power, and strength to find Him. We do not find God in the pursuit of glory, but rather God finds us in the weakness of His Son who was laid bare on the cross in shame and suffering. It is through the cross that we behold God through faith, as He Himself has made Himself known through and in His beloved and only-begotten Son.

All which desires power and thinks that by speaking of God's power as the chief article of religion is false theology. It is a theology of glory.

But all that recognizes the manifest weakness and foolishness of the cross, and therein the truth of God who gives Himself freely, in grace--that is the Theology of the Cross and is true theology.

It is Law and Gospel again. The Theologies of Glory seek to find God through the Law and they never find Him; the Theology of the Cross confesses God through His Gospel and they are found by Him at the cross.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Julian of Norwich]

Getting to the Theology of the Cross/Theology (or theologies really) of Glory, we can look again to Luther's Heidelberg Disputation, this one is going to be long.

"19 That person does not deserve to be called a theologian who looks upon the »invisible« things of God as though they were clearly »perceptible in those things which have actually happened« (Rom. 1:20; cf. 1 Cor 1:21-25).

This is apparent in the example of those who were »theologians« and still were called »fools« by the Apostle in Rom. 1:22. Furthermore, the invisible things of God are virtue, godliness, wisdom, justice, goodness, and so forth. The recognition of all these things does not make one worthy or wise.

20 He deserves to be called a theologian, however, who comprehends the visible and manifest things of God seen through suffering and the cross.

The manifest and visible things of God are placed in opposition to the invisible, namely, his human nature, weakness, foolishness. The Apostle in 1 Cor. 1:25 calls them the weakness and folly of God. Because men misused the knowledge of God through works, God wished again to be recognized in suffering, and to condemn »wisdom concerning invisible things« by means of »wisdom concerning visible things«, so that those who did not honor God as manifested in his works should honor him as he is hidden in his suffering (absconditum in passionibus). As the Apostle says in 1 Cor. 1:21, »For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe.« Now it is not sufficient for anyone, and it does him no good to recognize God in his glory and majesty, unless he recognizes him in the humility and shame of the cross. Thus God destroys the wisdom of the wise, as Isa. 45:15 says, »Truly, thou art a God who hidest thyself.«

So, also, in John 14:8, where Philip spoke according to the theology of glory: »Show us the Father.« Christ forthwith set aside his flighty thought about seeing God elsewhere and led him to himself, saying, »Philip, he who has seen me has seen the Father« (John 14:9). For this reason true theology and recognition of God are in the crucified Christ, as it is also stated in John 10 (John 14:6) »No one comes to the Father, but by me.« »I am the door« (John 10:9), and so forth.

21 A theology of glory calls evil good and good evil. A theology of the cross calls the thing what it actually is.

This is clear: He who does not know Christ does not know God hidden in suffering. Therefore he prefers ,works to suffering, glory to the cross, strength to weakness, wisdom to folly, and, in general, good to evil. These are the people whom the apostle calls »enemies of the cross of Christ« (Phil. 3:18), for they hate the cross and suffering and love works and the glory of works. Thus they call the good of the cross evil and the evil of a deed good. God can be found only in suffering and the cross, as has already been said Therefore the friends of the cross say that the cross is good and works are evil, for through the cross works are dethroned and the »old Adam«, who is especially edified by works, is crucified. It is impossible for a person not to be puffed up by his »good works« unless he has first been deflated and destroyed by suffering and evil until he knows that he is worthless and that his works are not his but God's.

22 That wisdom which sees the invisible things of God in works as perceived by man is completely puffed up, blinded, and hardened.

This has already been said. Because men do not know the cross and hate it, they necessarily love the opposite, namely, wisdom, glory, power, and so on. Therefore they become increasingly blinded and hardened by such love, for desire cannot be satisfied by the acquisition of those things which it desires. Just as the love of money grows in proportion to the increase of the money itself, so the dropsy of the soul becomes thirstier the more it drinks, as the poet says: »The more water they drink, the more they thirst for it.« The same thought is expressed in Eccles. 1:8: »The eye is not satisfied with seeing, nor the ear filled with hearing.« This holds true of all desires.

Thus also the desire for knowledge is not satisfied by the acquisition of wisdom but is stimulated that much more. Likewise the desire for glory is not satisfied by the acquisition of glory, nor is the desire to rule satisfied by power and authority, nor is the desire for praise satisfied by praise, and so on, as Christ shows in John 4:13, where he says, »Every one who drinks of this water will thirst again.«

The remedy for curing desire does not lie in satisfying it, but in extinguishing it. In other words, he who wishes to become wise does not seek wisdom by progressing toward it but becomes a fool by retrogressing into seeking »folly«. Likewise he who wishes to have much power, honor, pleasure, satisfaction in all things must flee rather than seek power, honor, pleasure, and satisfaction in all things. This is the wisdom which is folly to the world."

The Theology of the Cross is what it says on the tin: It is theology by way of the cross of Jesus Christ, to comprehend God through the visible reality of the suffering and crucified Jesus, in the weakness, fragility, humliation, and shame of Christ. That we do not apprehend God in His glory, power, strength, or wisdom; but in His weakness, humility, and foolishness as found in the crucified Jesus.

Every theology of glory, by contrast, seeks to confess God by the invisible qualities of His power, His wisdom, His strength, and to think that by the recognition of these one is wise and good. That by one's own efforts one can be righteous, that we can pursue God through the Law and find Him and have Him. These theologies of glory have men seeking power, wisdom, strength, and glory. Through their own efforts, by thinking that by their inherent goodness, or by their tireless striving they can be good and wise. They seek after power, they seek after strength, they view religion as means to their own self-improvement, piety, and betterment.

But the cross tells us that we cannot find God through the invisible things of God, we cannot find God in His glory, His power, His strength; and that we cannot attain for ourselves glory, power, and strength to find Him. We do not find God in the pursuit of glory, but rather God finds us in the weakness of His Son who was laid bare on the cross in shame and suffering. It is through the cross that we behold God through faith, as He Himself has made Himself known through and in His beloved and only-begotten Son.

All which desires power and thinks that by speaking of God's power as the chief article of religion is false theology. It is a theology of glory.

But all that recognizes the manifest weakness and foolishness of the cross, and therein the truth of God who gives Himself freely, in grace--that is the Theology of the Cross and is true theology.

It is Law and Gospel again. The Theologies of Glory seek to find God through the Law and they never find Him; the Theology of the Cross confesses God through His Gospel and they are found by Him at the cross.

-CryptoLutheran

I see that makes sense.
Then is the reason that Lutherans don't have crucifixes is that crucifixes are too Catholic?

 

[ViaCrucis]

I see that makes sense.
Then is the reason that Lutherans don't have crucifixes is that crucifixes are too Catholic?

Oh, we have crucifixes. Absolutely.

The cross matters, and the crucifix points us exactly that holy truth of God's suffering in Jesus.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Julian of Norwich]

Oh, we have crucifixes. Absolutely.

The cross matters, and the crucifix points us exactly that holy truth of God's suffering in Jesus.

-CryptoLutheran

Oh, good.

 

[Tigger45]

I see that makes sense.
Then is the reason that Lutherans don't have crucifixes is that crucifixes are too Catholic?

Although many Protestant denominations reject all things that even resemble Roman Catholism, Lutherans pride themselves on retaining the catholic church=(the universal church) maintaining all things taught everywhere, always and by all in the historic faith.

 

[FireDragon76]

I see that makes sense.
Then is the reason that Lutherans don't have crucifixes is that crucifixes are too Catholic?

Some think of it as too Catholic, others don't. In Luther's day and for some time afterwards, it was the norm. One thing that distinguished Lutheran churches in Germany from the Reformed was that the Lutherans generally took a benign attitude towards religious artwork, and it was a point of contention between our two churches. But as the centuries went on and the influence of pietism and pan-Protestant movements increased, many Lutherans simply stopped caring so much about that distinctive. But generally, Lutherans are not on principle oppssed to religious art.