LDS 2 Peter 1 Divine Nature

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Mormons are still misinterpreting the early church fathers who spoke of becoming one with God. They never taught that there will be multiple Gods.

I prefer to rely on scripture:
2 Peter 1
3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: 4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
 

fatboys

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Mormons are still misinterpreting the early church fathers who spoke of becoming one with God. They never taught that there will be multiple Gods.

I prefer to rely on scripture:
2 Peter 1
3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: 4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
Once again you have presented scriptures that you would have to squeeze as hard as you would have to squeeze a turnip to get blood out it for these scriptures to mean what you want them to mean.
 
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KevinSim

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Mormons are still misinterpreting the early church fathers who spoke of becoming one with God. They never taught that there will be multiple Gods.

I prefer to rely on scripture:
2 Peter 1
3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: 4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
In a very real sense there won't be multiple Gods. When a disciple of Jesus does what Jesus prayed s/he would do, and becomes completely one with God, then s/he becomes the same God that God the Father is. There aren't multiple deities. There's only one deity; when people become one with that one deity, then they become that deity, not a different deity.

That's how it works with God the Father, Jesus His Son, and Holy Spirit; and that's how it will work with us. Jesus and the Spirit are completely one with God the Father, and therefore in a very real sense they are God the Father. Similarly, when we become one with the three of them, we will also in a very real sense be God the Father.
 
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Rescued One

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In a very real sense there won't be multiple Gods. When a disciple of Jesus does what Jesus prayed s/he would do, and becomes completely one with God, then s/he becomes the same God that God the Father is. There aren't multiple deities. There's only one deity; when people become one with that one deity, then they become that deity, not a different deity.

That's how it works with God the Father, Jesus His Son, and Holy Spirit; and that's how it will work with us. Jesus and the Spirit are completely one with God the Father, and therefore in a very real sense they are God the Father. Similarly, when we become one with the three of them, we will also in a very real sense be God the Father.

That's a misrepresentation of Mormonism.

Pearl of Great Price, Abraham 4
1 And then the Lord said: Let us go down. And they went down at the beginning, and they, that is the Gods, organized and formed the heavens and the earth.
 
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Rescued One

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Doctrine and Covenants 132
19 And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and everlasting covenant, ...Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; ...and shall inherit thrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, ...and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their exaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the seeds forever and ever.
20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them.

THE STRAITNESS OF THE WAY. Mortality is the testing or proving ground for exaltation to find out who among the children of God are worthy to become Gods themselves, and the Lord has informed us that "few there be that find it."
Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 1:69-70

The Father has promised us that through our faithfulness we shall be blessed with the fulness of his kingdom. In other words we will have the privilege of becoming like him. To become like him we must have all the powers of godhood; thus a man and his wife when glorified will have spirit children who eventually will go on an earth like this one we are on and pass through the same kind of experiences, being subject to mortal conditions, and if faithful, then they also will receive the fulness of exaltation and partake of the same blessings. There is no end to this development; it will go on forever. We will become gods and have jurisdiction over worlds, and these worlds will be peopled by our own offspring. We will have an endless eternity for this.
Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 2:48
 
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Jane_Doe

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And absolutely unBiblical. The sheep do not become The Shepard, or even a shepard. They are still sheep.
Man, Potential to Become like Heavenly Father
See also Father ; Immortality ; Perfection
  • man is become as one of us: Gen. 3:22
  • be holy: for I … am holy: Lev. 19:2 . ( 1 Pet. 1:16 . )
  • thou hast made him a little lower than the angels: Ps. 8:5 .
  • madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands: Ps. 8:6 .
  • Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High: Ps. 82:6 .
  • Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father: Matt. 5:48 .
  • spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have: Luke 24:39 .
  • Is it not written in your law … Ye are gods: John 10:34 . ( Ps. 82 )
  • we are the offspring of God: Acts 17:29 .
  • heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ: Rom. 8:17 .
  • changed into the same image from glory to glory: 2 Cor. 3:18 .
  • if a son, then an heir of God through Christ: Gal. 4:7 .
  • Till we all come … unto a perfect man: Eph. 4:13 .
  • be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live: Heb. 12:9 .
  • when he shall appear, we shall be like him: 1 Jn. 3:2 .
  • him that overcometh will … sit with me in my throne: Rev. 3:21 .
 
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dzheremi

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The proper understanding of what it means to be partakers of the Divine nature is not in becoming Gods (!), but in understanding the incarnation and the reason for its happening as it did.

In the early days, there were groups like the Arians who, thinking it improper that Jesus Christ be seen as both God and man, thus sought to say that, yes, He is God in a sense, but he must be in some sense different in His divine nature than His Father, as God the Father is not in the flesh as Christ is. They rebelled against God in the flesh in this manner, even though this had been accepted by Christians up until the birth of this heresy.

Thus our holy father HH St. Athanasius the Apostolic, their most committed opponent, wrote against them at length, and I will quote here the portion of his letter 60 to Adelphius against the Arians that directly quotes the verse, because it explains much better what this verse means than I ever could hope to.

Our father writes:

These things then happened, and no one doubted, as the Arians now venture to doubt, whether one is to believe the incarnate Word; but even from beholding the man, they recognised that He was their maker, and when they heard a human voice, they did not, because it was human, say that the Word was a creature. On the contrary, they trembled, and recognised nothing less than that it was being uttered from a holy Temple. How then can the impious fail to fear lest 'as they refused to have God in their knowledge, they may be given up to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not fitting' (Romans 1:28)? For Creation does not worship a creature. Nor again did she on account of His Flesh refuse to worship her Lord. But she beheld her maker in the Body, and 'in the Name of Jesus every knee' bowed, yea and 'shall bow, of things in heaven and things on earth and things under the earth, and every tongue shall confess,' whether the Arians approve or no, 'that Jesus is Lord, to the Glory of God the Father' (Philippians 2:10-11). For the Flesh did not diminish the glory of the Word; far be the thought: on the contrary, it was glorified by Him. Nor, because the Son that was in the form of God took upon Him the form of a servant was He deprived of His Godhead. On the contrary, He is thus become the Deliverer of all flesh and of all creation. And if God sent His Son brought forth from a woman, the fact causes us no shame but contrariwise glory and great grace. For He has become Man, that He might deify us in Himself, and He has been born of a woman, and begotten of a Virgin, in order to transfer to Himself our erring generation , and that we may become henceforth a holy race, and 'partakers of the Divine Nature,' as blessed Peter wrote. (2 Peter 1:4) And 'what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh (Romans 8:3).

Note that nowhere in any of the above passage does HH write that we become Gods, but that it is through the incarnation that we are deified in Him, by His having taken flesh from our lady St. Mary the Theotokos, that we would become a 'holy race', as HH puts it above. Deification is about holiness and partaking in the divine nature via the incarnation and our own cooperation with God (see: St. Gregory Nazianzen, the fourth century Cappadocian father who wrote a lot about theosis/deification and the cooperation of man with God). It is not about assuming the creative power of the Almighty so as to create and populate our own planets or whatever such blasphemies. Man cannot and does not become an almighty God! Rather, through the incarnation which abolished the distance between God and man present from the sin of our father Adam in paradise, God has come to us and this time blessed our nature in Himself, uniting divinity and humanity inseparably in the person of Jesus Christ, our Savior, that we may too unite with God, becoming 'partakers of the divine nature' by grace (as we are but finite humans), not by nature (as Christ, who is God).
 
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dzheremi

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On this topic, Mormons seem to have in mind something like this:


While in Christianity, deification is a matter of this:


And this:


I hope the difference is clear, as this is one area -- like others -- where it would be easy for someone for whom this concept is foreign (as I suspect it sadly is for many; I never heard it talked about in such explicit terms until I became Orthodox, so I don't know how much other kinds of Christians know about this, and I fear there may be many who have a visceral "Oh, heck no!" sort of reaction to it, even though it is found in the Bible and the fathers) to say "Well, it seems like they're basically talking about the same thing; Christians preach deification, and Mormons do too." We may be preaching on the same topic (broadly speaking), but we are not preaching the same thing.
 
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Jane_Doe

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In the early days, there were groups like the Arians who, thinking it improper that Jesus Christ be seen as both God and man, thus sought to say that, yes, He is God in a sense, but he must be in some sense different in His divine nature than His Father, as God the Father is not in the flesh as Christ is. They rebelled against God in the flesh in this manner, even though this had been accepted by Christians up until the birth of this heresy.
No one here is advocating Arain beliefs. LDS consider such to be a great error.
Note that nowhere in any of the above passage does HH write that we become Gods, but that it is through the incarnation that we are deified in Him,
LDS also agree that we are deified in and through Christ. It's all made possible by Him.
Deification is about holiness and partaking in the divine nature via the incarnation and our own cooperation with God (see: St. Gregory Nazianzen, the fourth century Cappadocian father who wrote a lot about theosis/deification and the cooperation of man with God). It is not about assuming the creative power of the Almighty so as to create and populate our own planets or whatever such blasphemies.
Why do you draw that line?
Man cannot and does not become an almighty God!
Why not? Is Christ's atoning power not enough? Do sins still stain even after being washed clean in His blood?
 
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dzheremi

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No one here is advocating Arain beliefs. LDS consider such to be a great error.

Again, it is not possible for you to actually claim this while holding to what you yourself have told me is the LDS view that the Persons of the Holy Trinity are not homoousios/consubstantial/of the same essence. You may not view LDS doctrine as being in line with Arianism, but by creating a false trinity of three heteroousian gods, you are closer to the Arians and other heretics of the past than you apparently realize.

Why do you draw that line?

Because that's the line to be drawn between my faith and yours. It's what explains the difference between the thoroughly Biblical, Patristic, and Orthodox understanding of theosis and other groups, such as Mormons, teaching other things on the same topic.

Why not? Is Christ's atoning power not enough? Do sins still stain even after being washed clean in His blood?

To quote the third-century Roman saint St. Hippolytus (in his very aptly-named Refutation of all Heresies) "For if He had willed to make thee a god, He could have done so. Thou hast the example of the Logos. His will, however, was, that you should be a man, and He has made thee a man."

This idea that we become our own "God the fathers" and create and populate our own worlds is simply not a feature of Christianity. It has nothing to do with sin 'staining' anything and everything to do with such an idea being a doctrine foreign to Christianity, of such ancient vintage (read: it was recognized as a heresy so long ago) that it is refuted above by a saint who died in 235 AD.
 
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dzheremi

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No. You are clearly misunderstanding the LDS position.

Correct me if I am wrong, but from what LDS themselves have written, their concept of deification involves just such an exaltation to literal Godhood whereby they are granted power to become God the Father. Is this incorrect? Because it is being taught in this very thread, in post #3, to which you replied that the same post is "spot on" in post #8.

Please explain.
 
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Jane_Doe

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Again, it is not possible for you to actually claim this while holding to what you yourself have told me is the LDS view that the Persons of the Holy Trinity are not homoousios/consubstantial/of the same essence.
There ARE other views out there besides homoousios and Arianism.
Because that's the line to be drawn between my faith and yours. It's what explains the difference between the thoroughly Biblical, Patristic, and Orthodox understanding of theosis and other groups, such as Mormons, teaching other things on the same topic.
I was asking for a scriptural reason (sorry for not specifying).
To quote the third-century Roman saint St. Hippolytus (in his very aptly-named Refutation of all Heresies) "For if He had willed to make thee a god, He could have done so. Thou hast the example of the Logos. His will, however, was, that you should be a man, and He has made thee a man."
I'm failing to see how this applies to the question. Are you saying because something is not X now it can never be X? I could think of a bunch of counter-examples to that.
 
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Jane_Doe

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Correct me if I am wrong, but from what LDS themselves have written, their concept of deification involves just such an exaltation to literal Godhood whereby they are granted power to become God the Father. Is this incorrect? Because it is being taught in this very thread, in post #3, to which you replied that the same post is "spot on" in post #8.

Please explain.
A person becomes LIKE God the Father. We don't literally become Him or replace Him. This was clarified in post #4.
 
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dzheremi

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There ARE other views out there besides homoousios and Arianism.

All non-homoousian views are heretical. This is why the homoiousians ('similar nature') were rejected. Arianism is just appropriate because they, like you, recognized the divinity of Christ while maintaining that it was not the same divinity as the Father, because again they rebelled against the idea that God should come to us in the flesh. You are perhaps more 'semi-Arian' in that respect, in that you do not out and out deny that God has come to us in the flesh (in fact, Mormons teach that God the Father has a body of flesh and bone), but continue the Arians' denial of the one shared divinity between the Persons, and thus, like them, deny the Holy Trinity.

I was asking for a scriptural reason (sorry for not specifying).

A scriptural reason why we do not become almighty God? "Hear, O Israel, the Lord is One", for instance. The most famous statement of monotheism in the Old Testament. Or Psalm 86:8-10: "Among the gods there is none like You, O Lord; Nor are there any works like Your works. All nations whom You have made shall come and worship before You, O Lord, and shall glorify Your name. For You are great, and do wondrous things; You alone are God." And in the New Tastment, too, we have verses such as John 5:44 which speak of "the only God".

I'm failing to see how this applies to the question. Are you saying because something is not X now it can never be X? I could think of a bunch of counter-examples to that.

St. Hippolytus is saying that while we have the example of the Logos, the God-Man Jesus Christ (which proves that God can make a man who is God), we were not created thusly. So anyone who interprets "Ye are Gods" as literally as the LDS appear to is in error. The saint does not teach against deification as a concept at all (in fact, that is dealt with in the very next sentence at the source), only this idea that men become Gods by nature. God's nature and ours are not the same. That is, in an operational sense, the very point of the incarnation: that God should bless our nature in Himself, redeeming us in the process (cf. St. Gregory Nazianzus: "That which is not assumed is not saved") and once again making it possible that we may be in true communion and union with God by grace which He gives us (and, again, not by nature).
 
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